View Full Version : My review for TOAW3 @ ACG forum
liuzg150181
13 Nov 06, 12:30
My review for the game is finally being posted at ACG, I would also like to thank Siberian Heat(Brian King),whom I alias with,for providing me with assistance and advice all this while,comments on my review would be appreciated:
Armchair General Magazine: Interactive Military History (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/articles.php?p=2982&page=1&cat=59)
Thanks for the well-balanced review. I disagree on the severity of your comment on the lack of TCP/IP play, but that's because I know how excruciatingly boring it would be to watch me play a turn, in real time...:laugh:
TCP/IP play might be useful for extremely small scenarios, where it might only take 15 minutes to finish a turn, or perhaps in a tutorial/learning situation where one player is trying to teach another the finer points of how to play. However, to make that work well, a chat client would need to be integrated, and a whole bunch of recoding done to the engine. Not a relatively fruitful expenditure of programming resources at this point in time, I'm afraid. However, it might be something to consider in a "from the ground up" redesign of the game.
Thanks for the well-balanced review. I disagree on the severity of your comment on the lack of TCP/IP play, but that's because I know how excruciatingly boring it would be to watch me play a turn, in real time...:laugh:
TCP/IP play might be useful for extremely small scenarios, where it might only take 15 minutes to finish a turn, or perhaps in a tutorial/learning situation where one player is trying to teach another the finer points of how to play. However, to make that work well, a chat client would need to be integrated, and a whole bunch of recoding done to the engine. Not a relatively fruitful expenditure of programming resources at this point in time, I'm afraid. However, it might be something to consider in a "from the ground up" redesign of the game.
Agree. I noticed that, as well, in an otherwise well written review. I am curious how many points TOAW III lost in gameplay due to the lack of TCP/IP.
EDIT: On that note, I have played with my g/f hotseat, and for that I have to go read a book and not watch, as hell, she, like most of us I imagine, takes a wile to plan her moves. I can't imagine ever watchign someone play their turn, sitting there for hours watching them do nothing as they plan out their moves...Also, the player on the other line could feel like they have to hurry because they have someone waitign on the other side for their turn...
viridomaros
13 Nov 06, 16:48
while your opponent play you can play another TOAW turn but i don't really see any advantages to tcp/ip for toaw. I have tried tcp/ip with combat mission and though it's ok, playing by email is better
Bloodstar
13 Nov 06, 17:07
My review for the game is finally being posted at ACG, I would also like to thank Siberian Heat(Brian King),whom I alias with,for providing me with assistance and advice all this while,comments on my review would be appreciated:
Armchair General Magazine: Interactive Military History (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/articles.php?p=2982&page=1&cat=59)
Review should also point a good and bad sides to be objective. Did you write maybe that there is possibility that some army could be withdrawn due to some conversion bug? A reader must have clear picture that some scenarios would have to be updated to TOAW 3 actually to play as designed. Why then Daniel McBride for example didn't put his scenarios in TOAW 3? And that is actually 50% of TOAW enjoyment.
So sorry but your review is - not objective. Any review must point to game that is up to date of writing with all patch present for playing. Not some wishful thinking of the future.
My two pfennings. :)
Wow - bemoaning the lack of TCP/IP - does the reviewer have any idea of how long it takes to play a turn of a monster game? Plus the thought of actually seeing my opponent planning his moves does scare me somewhat:laugh:
I would bet DM is waiting for even more events/units etc before
creating a TOAW III monster - just have to enjoy FiTE for now!
Plus the thought of actually seeing my opponent planning his moves does scare me somewhat:laugh:
Hmmmn...that's something to consider on the psyops end of the game...:devious:
New feature for TOAW IV! TCP/IP and Webcam support! Yes, now you too, can watch your opponent sweat in real-time as he plots out his moves. Or, in some people's cases, just sweat. Period...:surprise:
Did I ever tell you that for the really tough games, I always play in my Speedo, and swimming goggles? Gives me the edge I need. Especially when I email back a webcam pic, with the turn file...:lier:
Hmmmn...that's something to consider on the psyops end of the game...:devious:
New feature for TOAW IV! TCP/IP and Webcam support! Yes, now you too, can watch your opponent sweat in real-time as he plots out his moves. Or, in some people's cases, just sweat. Period...:surprise:
Did I ever tell you that for the really tough games, I always play in my Speedo, and swimming goggles? Gives me the edge I need. Especially when I email back a webcam pic, with the turn file...:lier:
I'm thinking how some turns just cause say some unusual language:laugh: Rasmus in particular probably would have busted some ribs laughing after the Nordic Light perfect T1 invasion turn:mad: My wife has never let me forget how many bad words my kids learned in 1 minute;)
I'm thinking how some turns just cause say some unusual language:laugh: Rasmus in particular probably would have busted some ribs laughing after the Nordic Light perfect T1 invasion turn:mad: My wife has never let me forget how many bad words my kids learned in 1 minute;)
Lol.. My wife is always amused when she hears the victorious HoiHoiHoi! - you know what i mean?
New feature for TOAW IV! TCP/IP and Webcam support! Yes, now you too, can watch your opponent sweat in real-time as he plots out his moves. Or, in some people's cases, just sweat. Period...
Haha, i will wear my best Fieldgray then.. oh and i'd like to see Veers' girlfriend playing toaw..:p
liuzg150181
14 Nov 06, 13:14
For the start this is my first gaming review I dont expect it to be above criticism,on the contrary I believe that criticisms help me in my future writing of reviews. Quite interestingly, Siberian HEAT - whom i alias with in ACG website,and who is also an avid TOAW3 player -also doubted the feasibility and necessity of having such feature.
Despite the seemingly harangue over the lack of ip/tcp option in my review,by no means do i implied such to be a detraction from the worth of TOAW3 nor a result of oversight of the development team. I dont see it as an imperative feature of IGOUGO turn-based wargaming,but more as a bonus if implemented elegantly, and as a reply to Veer at most a point is deducted for lack of IP/TCP. It is meant more as a suggestion rather than criticism. IMO i could be implemented such that the session could be saved for recommencement whenever the players could convene,though more conceivable for smaller and platable scenarios.
The lack of it is not the main reason for the shortfall from the perfect score in terms of gameplay but mainly due to the implementation of naval system,the fact that i am actually writing it more as a general gaming review than a wargaming one, and the depreciation of time. Since i had already written about my rant regarding the implementation of naval system in the review I shall elaborate more on the latter two: not only is TOAW3 compared to other wargames, especially more contemporary - with innovations in gameplay (like Airborne Assault series, Combat Mission series), but also appraises it from the perspective of a general pcgamer instead of a grognard's.
To conclude my reply with an irony, after ponderance perhaps TOAW3 is not analgous to two games which i had in mind that are suitable for IP/TCP play:chess & Combat Mission. Chess,a classical UGOIGO turned-based game ,could maintain the gaming tempo when played via IP/TCP,due to its limited number of chesspiece and one move per turn system; Combat Mission, as a WEGO turned-based game,would allow for players to plan simultaneously and thus obviate the boredom of waiting for the opponent's planning phase as in the case of IGOUGO games.
PS:It might be good idea to have a built-in webcam feature for TOAW4:to savour the grimace of my opponent over his/her defeat. Add in mic feature and one could swear and taunt to and fro during the session.:D
liuzg150181
14 Nov 06, 13:26
Review should also point a good and bad sides to be objective. Did you write maybe that there is possibility that some army could be withdrawn due to some conversion bug? A reader must have clear picture that some scenarios would have to be updated to TOAW 3 actually to play as designed. Why then Daniel McBride for example didn't put his scenarios in TOAW 3? And that is actually 50% of TOAW enjoyment.
So sorry but your review is - not objective. Any review must point to game that is up to date of writing with all patch present for playing. Not some wishful thinking of the future.
My two pfennings. :)
As forementioned,the review is being written for the general gamers,and especially from one who hitherto had never played the previous iterations. Partly due to time constraint on my part and partly due to 'burnt-out' effect (as I almost play the game almost everyday since its release,until recently) ,there are a few more points which i couldnt add on to or had forgotten to do so.
As a matter of fact,i tried hard to refrain from giving TOAW3 a perfect gameplay score,something which was pretty tempting to me at that time.:cheeky:
Bloodstar
14 Nov 06, 13:34
As forementioned,the review is being written for the general gamers,and especially from one who hitherto had never played the previous iterations. Partly due to time constraint on my part and partly due to 'burnt-out' effect (as I almost play the game almost everyday since its release,until recently) ,there are a few more points which i couldnt add on to or had forgotten to do so.
As a matter of fact,i tried hard to refrain from giving TOAW3 a perfect gameplay score,something which was pretty tempting to me at that time.:cheeky:
OK.
Well, I was before also gaming journalist. I think that from the territories of The Balkans I was one among rarest journo who attended 4 times E3 trade show. Beside this I have been 2 times at ECTS in London, once in Amsterdam and once in Cannes (Milia), France. In Amsterdam I have interviewed Peter Molineux. During E3 I have met Sid Meier, John Cutter, Steve Meretzky (I have made interview with him as well, very good at that) and many others. I have made also at least 100 game reviews. And I have good interview with Paul Reiche III (Star Control 2).
We had a problems many times because there was such a short lead time (deadline). For example, Heroes 4 review. I was also in contact with Jon Van Caneghem and translated my review for him. Well, I made review based on only one week of play or even less. So I didn't noticed that AI was really bad. In anyway I was thinking that with parches they will fix some broken things. Unfortunately AI was not fixed...
So all in all, best reviews are written when you really can have time with a game and also when you enjoy playing that game. And then it can all settle so you can write good review. I don't mind too much if you have missed something as this is your first review but remember for the future.
Your Obi Van Bloodstar :)
ralphtrickey
14 Nov 06, 14:47
To conclude my reply with an irony, after ponderance perhaps TOAW3 is not analgous to two games which i had in mind that are suitable for IP/TCP play:chess & Combat Mission. Chess,a classical UGOIGO turned-based game ,could maintain the gaming tempo when played via IP/TCP,due to its limited number of chesspiece and one move per turn system; Combat Mission, as a WEGO turned-based game,would allow for players to plan simultaneously and thus obviate the boredom of waiting for the opponent's planning phase as in the case of IGOUGO games.
PS:It might be good idea to have a built-in webcam feature for TOAW4:to savour the grimace of my opponent over his/her defeat. Add in mic feature and one could swear and taunt to and fro during the session.:D
And that's the thing. I see two ways to implement TCP/IP.
One possibility is a major rewrite to allow someone to give orders or look at stuff or something while the other moves like CM. That's a major rewrite of the logic to have it behave reasonably.
You could do something like allow each person to move and set up their attacks simultaneously, I believe that's how CIV IV works. It's possible, but the amount of work involved in setting up the TCP stuff and coordinating, etc. is pretty big, not to mention the amount of play-testing. The AI would also have to be smart enough to pick up if someone left a multi-player game, that's probably the biggest hurdle.
How about an XBOX Live version:clown:. It would be trivial to convert to .Net:lier: , but the XNA toolkit won't be out for about 6 months. Once the XNA stuff is out, I'll play with it to see if it's worth it for a future version. The biggest hurdle is how to rework the UI to use a joystick, but still be playable. :blab: I suppose I'll have to pick up an XBOX 360 sometime to see how the other games do it:cool: . TOAW will only go down to 640x480 right now, so I might have to shrink it some more.:nuts:
Having vast experience of reviewing and interviewing does not necessarily equate to being an expert. My objective view of your own assesment of your own view of his reviewing......
Reviewing the reviewer
Lets review the reviewers reviewers
OK.
Well, I was before also gaming journalist. I think that from the territories of The Balkans I was one among rarest journo who attended 4 times E3 trade show. Beside this I have been 2 times at ECTS in London, once in Amsterdam and once in Cannes (Milia), France. In Amsterdam I have interviewed Peter Molineux. During E3 I have met Sid Meier, John Cutter, Steve Meretzky (I have made interview with him as well, very good at that) and many others. I have made also at least 100 game reviews. And I have good interview with Paul Reiche III (Star Control 2).
We had a problems many times because there was such a short lead time (deadline). For example, Heroes 4 review. I was also in contact with Jon Van Caneghem and translated my review for him. Well, I made review based on only one week of play or even less. So I didn't noticed that AI was really bad. In anyway I was thinking that with parches they will fix some broken things. Unfortunately AI was not fixed...
So all in all, best reviews are written when you really can have time with a game and also when you enjoy playing that game. And then it can all settle so you can write good review. I don't mind too much if you have missed something as this is your first review but remember for the future.
Your Obi Van Bloodstar :)
Bloodstar
14 Nov 06, 17:39
Having vast experience of reviewing and interviewing does not necessarily equate to being an expert. My objective view of your own assesment of your own view of his reviewing......
Reviewing the reviewer
Lets review the reviewers reviewers
But I am an expert. Honestly when somebody wants to learn reviewing he must read old musical reviews. I mean in rock music, punk etc... So there you see that reviewer must go deeply and he must know why this drummer play that why etc... That is an essence. And you must know to write so that people read you with interest. But, this is not about me thread so enough of this.
Mario
Having vast experience of reviewing and interviewing does not necessarily equate to being an expert. My objective view of your own assesment of your own view of his reviewing......
Reviewing the reviewer
Lets review the reviewers reviewers
It's been quite some time... Good to see you back.
Bloodstar
14 Nov 06, 17:56
It's been quite some time... Good to see you back.
Where is Raver TOAW iron man... who watch the toaw replay while ironing shirts? :)
ralphtrickey
14 Nov 06, 18:26
It's been quite some time... Good to see you back.
Good to be back. Things went a bit strange on me there for a while.:clown:
Good to be back. Things went a bit strange on me there for a while.:clown:
Good to see you coming back here too Ralph! ;)
Marko is a well known forum veteran, know especially well in the political discussion subforum of old WarfareHQ, (just a tiny information for you forum newbies ;) ), good to see you're back :)
It's been quite some time... Good to see you back.
I am lucky enough to have a drinking buddy who shares my interest of TOAW. So, I have mostly been playing TOAW and working, or drinking and talking about TOAW (or women). :toast:
Lucky man indeed :smoke:
Cheers!
Marc
Don Maddox
16 Nov 06, 12:09
Stop in the User Reviews section and write your own review for TOAW III. It can be as detailed or a brief as you like.
http://www.xtreme-gamer.com/reviews/showproduct.php?product=100
I am lucky enough to have a drinking buddy who shares my interest of TOAW. So, I have mostly been playing TOAW and working, or drinking and talking about TOAW (or women). :toast:
Argghhhhh the terrible Brit is Back!!!
I'm please to read you again Marko
I hope you will stay with us a while, and play lot of PBEMs
Der WanderGodShaveTheBrits
vBulletin® v3.7.4, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.