AA/Flak Units

[Killorbekilled]

Thoughts on how best to use these units? Obviously these are meant as anti-aircraft, but all too often end up taking part in ground combat. How are these units best employed to protect one's air units? Thoughts, ideas, experience would be great...

Thanks

[Ben Turner]

If you're playing TOAW III, they can be somewhat effective against enemy aircraft. If you're playing COW, probably best to forget about their intended role entirely.

[Menschenfresser]

Agreed on Ben's comments.

In TOAW3, being a newbie myself to the real uses of AAA, I tend to do two things with them:
A) Place them on vital bridges to punish the enemy for attempts to knock it out.
B) Stack them with pure artillery to ward off attempts to undig these units.

[jlbetin]

Thoughts on how best to use these units? Obviously these are meant as anti-aircraft, but all too often end up taking part in ground combat. How are these units best employed to protect one's air units? Thoughts, ideas, experience would be great...

Thanks

My Dear Oponent,
If you speak about the classical ACOW, they are unusefull in their AA role, better use them against ground forces.
For Modern.exe, the one we use presently in BOEA tournament, against airplanes they play fully their functions

So for big AA units divide them and protect your big stacks, or your unprotected airfields or strategical bridges.
Some small AA units can be used to protect artillery of a specific big unit which may be a "designated sacrificial lamb", as Tank Bn by instance. Many players did so, during tournament round 1 with Weserübung II scenario.

Have a look too to their lethality radius. Patriots have 6 hexes, linebacker only one but their AA values are deadly the same.

if your Air Sup is definitly too low they are your last shield against your oponent bombers

Regards,
turn 2 on the move tomorow, we just recover from a big power supply delivery crash in my city

Der WanderCrotaleOrRoland

[Veers]

Would another possible use to use them as the 'artillery of the sky'?
ie. Having those AA units with a range greater than 0 sitting behind a main area of conflict ready to shoot air craft that participate in those combats out of the sky.
Would this work? I'm pretty sure that some AA equipment has a range greater than 0, but would they support ground combats involving air units? (Providing they pass a comm check and all that jazz)

EDIT: Following JLB's post,I am now very sure that some AA equipment has a range greater than 0. :laugh:

[jlbetin]

Would another possible use to use them as the 'artillery of the sky'?
ie. Having those AA units with a range greater than 0 sitting behind a main area of conflict ready to shoot air craft that participate in those combats out of the sky.
Would this work? I'm pretty sure that some AA equipment has a range greater than 0, but would they support ground combats involving air units? (Providing they pass a comm check and all that jazz)

Just look at my preceding post SBH Veers

Der WanderPostMan

[Veers]

Just look at my preceding post SBH Veers

Der WanderPostMan
So that's a 'yes', AA units do support battles in other hexes, PostManJLB? :D

[jlbetin]

So that's a 'yes', AA units do support battles in other hexes, PostManJLB? :D

For me if I'm not thinking wrong (nearly impossible as I'm French ahumm)
If your AA unit have a combat radius within the battle, if again it pass the electronic support, the communication check etc...., this AA unit can use its AA action against involved aircrafts, like AA units when they defend airfields
For me until further notice, we can consider them as indiredt Air Artillery

Der WanderIhawk

[Veers]

For me if I'm not thinking wrong (nearly impossible as I'm French ahumm)
If your AA unit have a combat radius within the battle, if again it pass the electronic support, the communication check etc...., this AA unit can use its AA action against involved aircrafts, like AA units when they defend airfields
For me until further notice, we can consider them as indiredt Air Artillery

Der WanderIhawk
Excellent. I hope that we will not have your French honour hurt and find out otherwise. :laugh:

[Killorbekilled]

ok thanks - to clarify: if AA units sit on airfields or stacks to protect will the AA unit in question provide anti-air cover automatically or does it have to be dug in? Also if the AA unit has a combat radius of more than 0 hexes, then it will blast airplanes that come within range automatically?

Finally - what does this mean: "AA units must first pass the electronic support, the communication check" - I've never heard of this.

[Menschenfresser]

On the dug in aspect, I'm not sure. I dig them in always so it's not an issue.
I'm not sure about the radius also. I know Jamiam posted some explanation about how AA works somewhere when TOAW3 first came out and people actually started to consider how it should be used against airplanes.
And the manual quote means that AA has to pass a check. There's a variable the designer sets for each force's communication level. I'm not sure of the formula used, but I can simplify it so you get the idea. Let's say the variable is set to 60 out of 100. In order for the AA to fire, it has to pass a check which would be a random number from 1 to 100. If the random number is less than 60, it is ready to fire. If over, it fails the check. That's probably off the mark in terms of the formula, but it should give you the general idea.

[jlbetin]

I did some tests about radius with modern.exe, it works

Der WanderGoToBed

[Killorbekilled]

Hmmm... This doesn't really make too much sense to me - why won't the units just do their job? And if they can't fire then they should be re-organizing or something...

[Veers]

Hmmm... This doesn't really make too much sense to me - why won't the units just do their job? And if they can't fire then they should be re-organizing or something...
If they don't pass their comm check then they don't get the message form HQ to start firing...:laugh:

[Mantis]

In unmodified CoW exe's, AA is totally useless vs. airpower. You can, however, get some outstanding results vs. armor, etc, depending on the scenario and nation you play.

Modified exe's have fixed this. Can't speak for T3 however.

[jlbetin]

If they don't pass their comm check then they don't get the message form HQ to start firing...:laugh:

Veers is right here, it is like Arty Support, there is a comm check and add a new one electronic support which work little bit the same.
But in OPLM the Electronic support value and comm check are high so in 80%, support works

I join here a small scen to use with modern.exe only ( the one of tournament), 1st force have one hex AA gun, one hex SAM and 6 hex Patriot along with 2 units made of no AA defense
2nd force has a reco to highlight eni force and an air force made of 10 rafale IIRW, attack the different units and you will see destroyed airplanes in different condition
One of the low aa units is within the range of patriot an other not
you can try attack too on the different AA units, you'll see results

Regards

Der WanderTestScenarioDealer:smoke:

[nemo]

Modified exe's have fixed this. Can't speak for T3 however.
AA works in TOAW 3. It even had to be tuned down in the latest patch :eek:

[Mantis]

From one extreme to the other - sounds like a standard fix to me!

:clown:

Seriously, though - how bad was it? Just a bit much, or massive death by the golden beebee?

[nemo]

From one extreme to the other - sounds like a standard fix to me!

:clown:

Seriously, though - how bad was it? Just a bit much, or massive death by the golden beebee?
AA fire had become really nasty :devious:

[Mantis]

Probably the Matrix guys are just trying to make up for the previous 8 years of total ineffectiveness... :laugh: