Creating ATF maps from JDP's

[JamesBailey]

Underdog (Johnnie Ozzie-borne) and I are working on a series of AATF scenarios set in modern day Lebanon (IDF vs Hezbollah). We have some kick *ss 1:50k UTM gridded maps that we have scanned into JPD format (essentially the entire AO from boundary to Litani River). Next step is to convert these JPDs into something AATF can use.

Is there a 'how to' guide out there that explains how JPDs are converted to AATF maps? We will post the JPDs, the AATF maps, and the AATF scenarios all in due time.

(we have got good ideas for some IDF air assault ops against Hezbollah positions on the Litani -- should be a nice addition to the XRAY, Mog city, and 'Ghan scenario sets.)

[CPangracs]

AFAIK, the map data the ATF engine uses can only be derived from DTED, DEMS, or SRTM data.

What is "JPD" or "JDP"? I've never heard of it and I can't find anything on Google. Are you sure you didn't mean "JPG"?

If so, it can't be done. You need the elevation data from DTED, DEMS, or SRTM files to create the maps.

It's a difficult process that I refuse to do. However, if you give Pat huge amounts of money, he may do it all for you...;)

[Hub]

JPD is a file format for storing and processing vector data. It is used in applications like XRMAP:

Xrmap is a program running under X that can interactively display portions of the Earth, using the huge CIA World Data Bank II. It features political boundaries, major and minor rivers, glaciers, lakes, canals, etc.A rather comprehensive data set of world cities and locations - about 20000 cities are listed can also be used. Eight projections are implemented, and all features can be interactively set from the GUI.

[CPangracs]

JPD is a file format for storing and processing vector data. It is used in applications like XRMAP:

Xrmap is a program running under X that can interactively display portions of the Earth, using the huge CIA World Data Bank II. It features political boundaries, major and minor rivers, glaciers, lakes, canals, etc.A rather comprehensive data set of world cities and locations - about 20000 cities are listed can also be used. Eight projections are implemented, and all features can be interactively set from the GUI.

Funny, couldn't find it on a search, but I only checked the first spelling, "JDP", so that figures.

If there is no elevation data, then it won't work in the map creation tool.

Curt

[Hub]

No, unless there is some other sort of tie - in with height data on it.

On a related note, referring to the Bir Gifgafa AAR - do all the scenarios in TSATC have maps like that?

[Pat Proctor]

Hub,

Bir Gifgafa is very representative, in map style, of the rest of the game. In face, the ones around the Suez are downright stunning. Curt did an awesome job.

James,

I am not familiar with JDP, but actually, the ATF and AATF Power Toolkits ONLY take USGS DEMS. DTEDs and SRTM data is easily converted to this format. If you can find a program that does the conversion for JDP, then I guess you could use the converted data.

To be used in the power toolkit, a map must have these requirements:

USGS DEM format
3 arc-second resolution (often refered to, eroneously as 1:250,000)
be exactly 1 degree X 1 degree in size


This is exactly analogous in size and resolution to a DTED Level 1 map, which is why the conversion for that format is so easy.

If the format you are talking about has no elevation data, I am certain that there will be no way to do the conversion.

[JamesBailey]

Sorry, I meant JPG, not JDP. I was worried that it wasn't possible to convert to ATF, but saw the cool TSATC maps and thought maybe...

Anyway, so if I get area in SRTM, convert it to DEM using DrunkenRussian's tutorial available on this forum, I will have an elevation map I can use. How do the terrain features get overlayed onto that map? Could I simply drop my JPG on top of it? (I assume that's how you did it w/ TSATC.)

Attached is example of a piece of my JPG map (the operationally important Litani River bend on the approach to Marjavoun, which the IDF recently fought so hard to take).

[Pat Proctor]

You CAN use the JPG as a map. Here is a link that describes importing and exporting maps. The trick is just to make sure that your image ...

is converted to a BMP
the EXACT same size as the BMP export
and the corners match exactly


Here is a link explaining the process of exporting and importing a map

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/7_advanced_map_drawing.htm

[JamesBailey]

You CAN use the JPG as a map. Here is a link that describes importing and exporting maps.

rog-
will give that a shot! thanks.

[JamesBailey]

Pat or Curt or some other Map-Einstein:

OK, I *think* I understand the basic process for making maps in ATF. Could you confirm my basic process is correct before I make the jump and actually start the mapping?

I'm going to:

(1) Get SRTM data of area I'm interested in.
(2) Use the 'Drunk Russian' process described on this forum
(3) This will give me a blank elevation map
(4) with this map, I can overlay my JPG map (after converting to BMP, making sure corners and size are exact match) as described here:
http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/5_new_map.htm
(5)Not the easiest thing in world, but once I have done it, I hope process gets easier.

Thanks.

[Pat Proctor]

Yes. The last two steps are:

(6) draw on all of the terrain objects

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/6_add_map_terrain.htm

(7) create the AI Terrain.

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/8_add_ai_map.htm

It IS a pain in the ass to make maps for ATF/AATF. They are just so much more detailed than maps in other games.

[JamesBailey]

Yes... They are just so much more detailed than maps in other games.

Thanks Pat. I have already got my DEM via SRTM and VTBuilder; pushing it thru the Powertool kit right now. Add my terrain and hope to have one Litani River AO shortly :smoke:

[JamesBailey]

It IS a pain in the ass to make maps for ATF/AATF. They are just so much more detailed than maps in other games.


I can now confirm this statement :nuts:

Question regarding map making and AATF vs. ATF:

Is the process used to build a map - start to finish - in ATF going to change in AATF?

I'm making an investment in learning the mapping process in ATF and was wondering if it will still be useful in AATF.

thanks.

[Pat Proctor]

NO :)

Much like democracy, it is the worst way, except for every other way.

[JamesBailey]

Pat-
In DEMCON Header page where it asks for DEM type, UTM zone, x coord, y coord, etc -- do I have to put in the same long. seconds and lat. seconds as I do in the Power Toolkit Map Production Information page? The default in DEMCON appears to be 154800 long. x 115200 lat., which is the same as the Power Toolkit default, which I will change to make map 'real'.

[Pat Proctor]

If you go to the tutorial about converting DTEDs to DEMs:

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38959

You will see that, in PETMAR DEMCON program, you just have to select ASCII as the file format for the export, and it should export without prompting. If you are having to enter lat long or coords, you have done something wrong.

You should not be prompted to enter anything, as the SRTM DTED already knows its coordinates, and the DEMCON program can do the conversion to the ASCII text format without any help. I think, if you are being prompted, you may have inadvertantly downloaded the elevation data in the wrong format.

I guess, however, if you don't care about the coordinate system that finally appears in the AATF engine, it doesn't matter. But if you DO care, I would go back to square one and get the data from SRTM in the correct format (DTED level 1 or 3 arcsecond or 100 meter resolution).

If you are talking about the creation of a map from an XDM, described here:

http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/5_new_map.htm

Then the answer is, it depends. If you want the map to exactly match the paper map, you must figure out an exact UTM grid that matches an exact lat-long coord. If you don't care, then blow it off.

[Pat Proctor]

BTW, I don't offer this as an excuse, but as an explanation:

I know the map making facility is a pain in the ass. I did not feel comfortable releasing it, but the community, as a whole expressed that they would rather have something buggy than nothing at all. So I cleaned the code up the best I could and released the power toolkit. The problem is that DEM formats are very irregular, and a lot of places deviate wildly from published standards for the format.

All of that having been said, I am sorry you are having trouble, and I will do my best to help you navigate the minefield.

[JamesBailey]

You will see that, in PETMAR DEMCON program, you just have to select ASCII as the file format for the export, and it should export without prompting. If you are having to enter lat long or coords, you have done something wrong.

You should not be prompted to enter anything, as the SRTM DTED already knows its coordinates, and the DEMCON program can do the conversion to the ASCII text format without any help. I think, if you are being prompted, you may have inadvertantly downloaded the elevation data in the wrong format.


Pat- I'm using the Drunk Russian's steps - they are very good BTW. The DEMCON 'Header' page I'm talking about is here:

http://www.matthanson.org/srtmtutorial/srtmprocess5.JPG

Notice the x & y coords boxes towards bottom of this screen - the screen is a bit foggy, but x = 154800 seconds and y = 115200 seconds. These same coords. appear in the Power Toolkit 'Map Production' page:

http://www.matthanson.org/srtmtutorial/srtmprocess9.JPG

(Both of these websites are from the Drunk Russian's post.)

These coordinates - 154800 x 115200 - appear to be 'defaults' as they appear in Drunk Russian's AND all the maps I have done.

My question is - if I change these on one of the steps so the coordinates match the actual, real world coordinates, do I need to change them on the other step?

Map making is tough, but I am following it fine. Just trying to get the fine details down so my maps are 100% accurate.

[Pat Proctor]

Yes, if you change the number on the SRTM, it will effect the number in the actual ATF format map. The issue is that your map may not fall at the EXACT lower-left corner of the SRTM data you download. the number in the ATF power toolkit may be slightly GREATER than the number you enter for SRTM data.

[JamesBailey]

The issue is that your map may not fall at the EXACT lower-left corner of the SRTM data you download.

You aren't kidding there! :laugh: An 8-digit UTM is a 10 square meter box -- its darn hard to hit :crosseye:

the number in the ATF power toolkit may be slightly GREATER than the number you enter for SRTM data.

Why is this? Is it something in converting 3 arc second STRM to 100m DEM? In this context, is there a rule of thumb or something I should keep in mind when attempting to hit my 8-digit UTM?

I'm putting all this stuff down into a 'start to finish' mapping document that I will post to the 'download section' of this website that might help future ATF/AATF mappers -- so all this info you are telling me will have some 'institutional knowledge' :D

[CPangracs]

...so all this info you are telling me will have some 'institutional knowledge' :D

An institution is where you'd find me if I tried to do all of this stuff! Actually, it's not that hard, just tedious...and I don't like tedious in my CFT (Copious Free Time). I do way too much of it at work! ;)

[JamesBailey]

An institution is where you'd find me if I tried to do all of this stuff! Actually, it's not that hard, just tedious...and I don't like tedious in my CFT (Copious Free Time). I do way too much of it at work! ;)


Curt -
its hard for me because I don't understand the finer points of how computers work - the cartography side isn't too bad, for me. But I imagine many folks who understand the computer side have a tough time with the cartography (especially if they haven't done basic land nav before). You guys at ProSim are nice enough to help those that want to learn and I think that is AWESOME :D !

As I mentioned, I'm putting all this into a 'start to finish' document that combines the Drunk Russian's STRM process, with the how-to tutorials posted at Shrapnelgames.com. I'm hoping this 'all in one' document helps folks build more completed .gmp maps...

[Pat Proctor]

e-mail it to me as a word doc, and I will convert it to PDF and put it up for everyone on our server!

Thanks for hanging in there. I can't wait to see the map!

[JamesBailey]

e-mail it to me as a word doc, and I will convert it to PDF and put it up for everyone on our server!

Thanks for hanging in there. I can't wait to see the map!

Wilco. I might have time to finish the doc up this weekend (but probably not, given the football games on Sunday ;) ). Its been a good learning experience for me and I hope to make some good, orginial maps in the future.

[JamesBailey]

You CAN use the JPG as a map. Here is a link that describes importing and exporting maps. The trick is just to make sure that your image ...

is converted to a BMP
the EXACT same size as the BMP export
and the corners match exactly


Here is a link explaining the process of exporting and importing a map

Advanced Map Drawing Techniques (http://www.prosimco.com/atf/tutorial/7_advanced_map_drawing.htm)

Pat-
I'm having a bit of trouble on getting the export map is the same size as the scanned topo map. When you say they need to be the same size, do you mean the same pixel x pixel size, or the tile width and high (same # of tiles), or some other measurement of size???

Thanks.

[CPangracs]

Pat-
I'm having a bit of trouble on getting the export map is the same size as the scanned topo map. When you say they need to be the same size, do you mean the same pixel x pixel size, or the tile width and high (same # of tiles), or some other measurement of size???

Thanks.

Here's where things get even more tricky.

1 - You need to go into the power toolkit, open the map, and then select "New" and "Export Map". Select a place to save the map OUTSIDE of the data folder in the game - I prefer using the desktop.

2 - Open the resulting .bmp file in a good program like Photoshop or Paintshop and note the dimensions of the map.

3 - Open your topo map in the same program (keep the original color map open!)

4 - now you'll have to use your knowledge of the program you're using to crop, resize, and otherwise manipulate the topo map to fit, not only the size of the map, but also ensure the right topo areas fit the elevations on the color map!

5 - Once you have it the right size, save the topo map with the exact same name as the color map in your data folder, then save it to your data folder (yes, this will overwrite the original color map file, so make sure you have a copy of it saved!).

6 - Open the toolkit again and select "Map", "New", and "DX Convert". Select the .bmp you just saved and select "yes", then select the SAME .bmp file again and select "yes". When asked for a save name, select something that is NOT a real map file name! I use "F1" just because.

7 - Select yes, and the program will do its magic, slicing the .bmp as needed. When the program asks you if you want to open the map, select "No"!

8 - Go to "Map", "Open", and select the map file you just created the color bitmap for, and you SHOULD see your topo map as the new map when "color" view is selected.

9 - You do the exact same for the "contour" map to add the topo as the contour map, which is what I did for TSATC (my own color maps, the Russian topo maps for the contour.

This is just my own personal preference, but I would actually draw a nice color map for each of the maps using the terrain in the topo maps as a guide, then use the topo maps for the contour map layer.

I can help you out with that if you'd like some individualized assistance.

Curt

[JamesBailey]

Curt-
High Speed Answer! :thumup:

These make a lot of sense (which is tough when you are dealing with a 'slow learner' like myself :nuts:). I printed these answers and am returning to my maps...

Thanks very much sir!

[Pat Proctor]

Yeah. What he said :)

I meant that you are going to have to stretch your JPG and save it as a bitmap in such a way that the corners of your JPG and the corners of the export map match, and the height and width of the JPG is exactly the same, in pixels, as the export map (total size, not tiles).

[JamesBailey]

Yeah. What he said :)

I meant that you are going to have to stretch your JPG and save it as a bitmap in such a way that the corners of your JPG and the corners of the export map match, and the height and width of the JPG is exactly the same, in pixels, as the export map (total size, not tiles).


Good to hear -- I can do pixels; Can't do tiles. Thanks.

[JamesBailey]

Pat or Curt-

Ok, another question from me as I work thru this process, attempting to identify the most effective process for doing this map stuff:

When I'm adding terrain to my elevation map using the terrain types included in 'atf1.ttp', does it make more sense to import my topo map scan BEFORE attempting to add this terrain? It seems like it would, considering how its important for terrain types on elevation map to match those on the imported topo, but I might be missing something (I'm trying to build the terrain from a blank elevation map and finding it difficult to be precise).

Thank you!

[CPangracs]

One way to do it is to draw your "color" terrain on the color map in the paint program, THEN use that as a guide when drawing the terrain in ATF!

I really need to put all of this stuff on Camtasia and make a video tutorial...;)

[JamesBailey]

One way to do it is to draw your "color" terrain on the color map in the paint program, THEN use that as a guide when drawing the terrain in ATF!

I really need to put all of this stuff on Camtasia and make a video tutorial...;)

Roger that Curt. I would buy that video tutorial :laugh:

I completed my first start to finish map last night (a small one) and a draft of my start to finish field manual. I'm going to proof read it and send a copy to you and Pat for any comments -- I'm not entirely sure my process is as 'high speed' as it could be...

thanks for all the help. Juliet Bravo out.