Arty Patterns

[mangus2000]

Does anyone know why CM models Arty fire to land in an oval depending the points of the compass (can't remeber if it East to West or North to South).
I would have liked it if you could change the landing pattern so that Oval lands side on or straight on.
If you have a tree line you want to take out and that fire lands only hitting a portion it is soooo annoying.

[TacCovert4]

In my experience, when you have los from the spotter to the location to be bombarded, the fire typically walks to and from the spotter, as if the spotter is calling in corrections to the gunners. It may look NSWE but that is probably due more to the spotter typically being in one of those directions from the targets.

I still wish they would have a FFE button for the spotter. :rifle:

[Palantir]

Hmmm, I believe that POS did some tests on that and posted them somewhere....

[KGPanzerschrecK]

I agree. I have always wished you could target left to right {North to South} in this game as well. Especially tree lines and rows of houses/city blocks.

[KGPanzerschrecK]

I found this info in my old CM Files -

Arty Spread Info:

Regular Impact Pattern:
LOS & TRP: 100m x 50m Oriented E-W
LOS & No TRP: Same
Blind & TRP: Same
Blind & No TRP: 200m x 100m Oriented E-W

Target Wide Pattern:
LOS & TRP: 200m Diameter Circle
LOS & No TRP: 250-300m Diameter Circle
Blind & TRP: 200m Diameter Circle
Blind & No TRP: 350-400m Diameter Circle

Rockets:
Rockets will fall within 650-700m diameter circle. {350 radius of aim point}

[Stndrtnfhr]

Does anyone know why CM models Arty fire to land in an oval depending the points of the compass (can't remeber if it East to West or North to South).
I would have liked it if you could change the landing pattern so that Oval lands side on or straight on.
If you have a tree line you want to take out and that fire lands only hitting a portion it is soooo annoying.

Magnus2000
The oval pattern you mention is called a "Sheaf". CM does a good job of modeling what a battery sheaf actually looks like. The direction of the sheaf is based on the position of the battery, i.e. behind the spotter/set up zone. The only way to change the oval pattern direction is to change setup zones to the north or south edge. In real life the spotter can adjust the size and direction of the sheaf, but it requires a high degree of proficiency in the spotter to do it well. CM attempts to model this with the target wide command. It is not perfect but is probably the best they could do without making it overly complicated.

Stndrtnfhr Out!

[mangus2000]

I never use the Target wide command except for smoke on occasion. I find the HE shells hit nothing useful and prefer to wait for a good target to arise.

[KGPanzerschrecK]

I never use the Target wide command except for smoke on occasion. I find the HE shells hit nothing useful and prefer to wait for a good target to arise.

I have used it on rare occasions. When i have some huge Artillery and there is a large force spread all over a city, it comes in handy then. You know, stuff like 280mm German Railroad guns and the like, lol.

[Iron Mike USMC]

I never use the Target wide command except for smoke on occasion. I find the HE shells hit nothing useful and prefer to wait for a good target to arise.

Target Wide is for suppression. I only use it for 6 tubes or more. Anything less would a waste of shells.

[mangus2000]

Target Wide is for suppression. I only use it for 6 tubes or more. Anything less would a waste of shells.
6 or more tubes eh, nice tip Mike:smoke: :smoke: :smoke:

[Lurker]

I think the CMBB manual covers the patterns pretty well. IIRC a standard target pattern is 160x80, depth x width from the perspective of the spotters home board edge. A target wide is 120x120.

I'm not sure if that's 160 x 80 as a vector from the point of target (i.e., 160 in both directions) or a range of 160 mtrs total.

[Palantir]

If you want to see the differences in heavy ARTY barrages / damage / patterns / accuracy in an actual CM city check out my BB scenario "KM-The Grinder."

The Soviets have some various & heavy duty stuff to play with in their opening assault. (It's even better if you have a "real" opponent on the receiving end!) :devious:

BTW- Mangus, this should be in the Tactical Talk Forum! :p

[mangus2000]

I was thinking that yesterday, but as it started out as a general enquiry i put it here first. Now it's changed i'll get it moved.:D :D :D

[mangus2000]

Found an interesting site on Arty Patterns, it seems from this that they seem to go for width with a Parallel Sheaf for Arty instead of the usual thinned out oval shape pattern (E to W) you get in CM.
Anyway just thought i would share it with you all:D

WWII Artillery Notes - Sheafs (http://www.poeland.com/tanks/artillery/sheafs.html)

[Lurker]

Found an interesting site on Arty Patterns, it seems from this that they seem to go for width with a Parallel Sheaf for Arty instead of the usual thinned out oval shape pattern (E to W) you get in CM.
Anyway just thought i would share it with you all:D Good site.

Incidentally, I noticed the single battery the patterms are mostly deeper than wide for the converged pattern, but much wider for the open pattern. This may relate to the CM narrow and wide patterns.
The multi battery patterns are a different matter. I don't think CM models those.

[TacCovert4]

From talking with a mortarman, the deployment of the battery determines a lot about the width and depth of the barrage.

mortar batteries are typically deployed either on line:

X X X X

or staggered;

X X
X X

.

Since the vast majority of arty pieces are going to use the same angles, unless you've got some preplanned ToT barrage, your shots are going to supposedly land somewhere in either a line or a box.

However, differences in rounds, slight adjustments to angle, heat of gun, and other factors will cause rounds fired in succession to not hit the same point, and walk up and down in roughly a straight line from the initial angle. So the widest 'accidental' variation in hit locations will be on the vertical axis respective to the arty pieces, ergo, oval shaped patterns.

For the preplanned 1st turn barrages however, there really should be some sort of improved targeting than a single point. A two point target, basically saying between here and here, rain steel, would give more of the ToT effect.