Alternative World War - mod for TOAWIII with Communist PO [Archive]

Ben Turner

27 Oct 06, 20:48

That's the way they were -except for one unit- in the original scenario

Obviously it's a long time since I designed the scenario, but the Norwegian Army was a bit funny in this regard. The division was treated more like a corps, with units attached to it to suit a particular role rather than to fit a standardised model.

For example;
1st Division (Oslo): 3 Infantry Regiments, 1 cavalry regiment, 1 artillery regiment
3rd Division (Kristiansand): 2 Infantry Regiments, 1 artillery battalion

I assumed the Regiments were organised on a standard pattern, though I didn't really have any information on them.

Silvanski

28 Oct 06, 02:44

NORWEGIAN ARMY 1940 (http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/norway/army1940.html)

Ben Turner

28 Oct 06, 08:48

NORWEGIAN ARMY 1940 (http://orbat.com/site/history/historical/norway/army1940.html)

Thanks. This bit;

16 Infantry Regiments (each of HQ & 4 Bns.), 2 independent Rifle Bns., 3 partially mechanized Dragoon Regiments (each of HQ, 2 Horsed, 1 Motorized & 1 MG Sqns. + 1 Cyclist/Ski Coy.),

is new information.

Secadegas

31 Oct 06, 10:15

v1.2 uploaded
This should be the definitive version... unless I discover something grave I overlooked :nuts:

Please check events as there are several out of order...

i didn't make a list but if you want an example see which hex is setted as Gorky (important for Soviet surrender). I'm afraid you'll find it in the north Atlantic :surprise:

If you need help with event editor please ring... (i'm not bad with it)

Silvanski

31 Oct 06, 10:33

Thanks for pointing this out... I'll look into it.
This calls for a v1.3

I left events as they were in the original... maybe converting to TOAWIII messed them up?

Ben Turner

31 Oct 06, 17:46

i didn't make a list but if you want an example see which hex is setted as Gorky (important for Soviet surrender). I'm afraid you'll find it in the north Atlantic :surprise:

Wow. Not sure how that happened.

Of course, if the Allies are at Gorky, the Russians are in trouble anyway. This shouldn't break games in progress.

Silvanski

31 Oct 06, 22:30

I'm gonna run through the events list

Silvanski

01 Nov 06, 00:27

Veers

01 Nov 06, 00:50

I found some mistakes in "withdraw army" events ... and the cause ... renaming of formations :argh:

Fixed that... Am checking the fleets at the moment cuz there also seems to be a self-inflicted bug...
The withdrawal failures are prolly do to the conversion to TOAW III, eh? So don't beat yourself up about it. :laugh:

Silvanski

01 Nov 06, 01:09

The withdrawal failures are prolly do to the conversion to TOAW III, eh? So don't beat yourself up about it. :laugh:

;) OK

Things can get fixed... got most of it sorted... but this one puzzles me... (see piccie)
New Allied ships come into service... OK...those are scheduled reinforcements... but also disbanding of US Armoured corps which haven't even appeared???

Veers

01 Nov 06, 01:45

Silvanski

01 Nov 06, 02:05

I'll leave it as it is and wait till I hear from Ben

Ben Turner

01 Nov 06, 17:04

;) OK

Things can get fixed... got most of it sorted... but this one puzzles me... (see piccie)
New Allied ships come into service... OK...those are scheduled reinforcements... but also disbanding of US Armoured corps which haven't even appeared???

The event is targetting the wrong unit. This happens when you add units to the middle of the OOB- sometimes the game doesn't update the events, which reference units not by their name but by their place in the OOB.

Anyway, these events are supposed to target a series of naval disband units, such as "31.12.39a", which disbands (as you might expect) at the end of December 1939, reflecting the ships which were commissioned between the first turn of the scenario and the end of the year.

Apologies, but I have to rant against myself here; there are so many things wrong with this scenario that I wouldn't even know where to start fixing them. From Silvanski's point of view, though, you'll want to figure out exactly which unit EVERY disband and withdraw event is supposed to target and ammend it accordingly. Otherwise the scenario is not even really playable.

Silvanski

02 Nov 06, 00:21

Thanks for explaining the events about the naval units Ben.
I understand more about the events editor... learning as I go along

There's no need for self ranting Ben. It is a great "what-if" scenario and I'm having a blast figuring out how to fine-tune it

I figured out the withdraw of each country.
I added one withdrawal on Communist side. The Moldovan formation upon Allied capture of Chisinau reflecting a mutiny/coup which might as well have been possible...
v1.3 is available in the downloads section

v1.4 will include -among others- the naval disbandings you pointed out.

Silvanski

02 Nov 06, 02:38

The withdrawal failures are prolly do to the conversion to TOAW III, eh? So don't beat yourself up about it. :laugh:

I blame ... pretty girls in dance halls (see siggie) :laugh:

Veers

02 Nov 06, 03:07

I blame ... pretty girls in dance halls (see siggie) :laugh:
Yes, yes, knew right away as I have read, and laughed at, your sig many times. :laugh:

Silvanski

03 Nov 06, 02:50

v1.4 will include -among others- the naval disbandings you pointed out.

... uploaded v1.5 ... confused?:nuts: ... bare with me guys :laugh:
This one now should be as good as it can get, but still in progress.
Thanks to Joao for going through the events list and spotting stuff I overlooked.

Silvanski

04 Nov 06, 15:08

More testing over the weekend, mainly by Joao "secadegas" as I have to work... (that's what you get in the medical branche)...
We're getting close to a fully playable version without major bugs...

How well is it documented which things are messed up by conversion of ACOW scenarios to TOAWIII ?
It seems to mainly affect the events list... any other weird stuff?

Silvanski

10 Nov 06, 05:46

I withdrew the available v1.5 as we're nearing completion of an extensively corrected update.
Testing of the update will be done on both sides of the Atlantic in the coming week.

Secadegas

15 Nov 06, 06:41

Ben Turner

15 Nov 06, 07:35

It happened a couple of times that a unit while beeing evaporated shows 100/+% losses (instead of the normal 100%). Checking the battle report shows a high number of equipment disabled than the number of the same equipment engaged...
Have this some to do with your "famous" negative equipment?

No- so far I haven't used negative equipment in a scenario.

This has been encountered in other scenarios, too, I believe. I don't recall if an explanation was given at the time.

jeff norton

16 Nov 06, 21:45

I withdrew the available v1.5 as we're nearing completion of an extensively corrected update.
Testing of the update will be done on both sides of the Atlantic in the coming week.
Is the proficiency for the SOV troops going to remain at 70-75%. I've been playing the game, and the SOV's seem to go thru the Germans and Poles like a hot knife and butter...

The origional had them at 60% and at 40% supply. They have a whole lot of power in the new version.

Silvanski

17 Nov 06, 02:18

I looked into the available ACOW version and it shows the Soviets at 70% proficiency...
I think this scenario needs it as we're dealing with a well-prepared Soviet army, organisational in much better shape than historically in 1941.

I however plan some modifications to distinguish between 1st and 2nd line formations. Also some Allied formations need to be looked into especially reinforcements need to be "greener"

Secadegas

17 Nov 06, 06:25

I've been playing the game, and the SOV's seem to go thru the Germans and Poles like a hot knife and butter...

I'm playtesting this game for the 3rd time now and i think Soviets go thru Germans and Poles like knife on... wood :p

Silvanski

17 Nov 06, 11:15

It's possible to form a defensive line till the French are activated

jeff norton

17 Nov 06, 11:46

I'm playtesting this game for the 3rd time now and i think Soviets go thru Germans and Poles like knife on... wood :p
Toche', or is that, 'touchy'? :nuts:

First game I played, the SOV's took Warsaw by turn 7, Berlin on Turn 16, and were well on their way...

Several games later (my current one), I've managed to stop them outside Berlin, but, just barely... I hope the Big Three come soon....:cry:

Silvanski

17 Nov 06, 11:58

Poland, and Warsaw therefore, is impossible to defend. The best the Polish can hope for is (with whatever units they have that can move) fall back to Warsaw -behind the river- and hold out till German formations get activated. It's difficult -but not impossible- to set up a defensive line but it needs to be a flexible one, you have to give up ground to buy time. There is also the risk that your rear will get harrassed by the Commie para units.

Silvanski

18 Nov 06, 15:29

jeff norton

19 Nov 06, 15:18

Development continues... All events seem to be working correct now.
I'm looking into the issue of the PO leaving important hexes like ports etc. undefended after capture, thus making amphibious invasions all too easy for the human opponent.
The introduction of garrison units seems to be a viable option...
Do you need some help? Let me know by PM or at my maildrop jwnorton(at)gmail<dot>com.

I'm learning the editor, but willing to do some grunt work to learn...

-J

Silvanski

19 Nov 06, 16:33

I sent you a PM Jeff.
As the Commie PO tracks can be improved suggestions are very much appreciated.

Ben Turner

20 Nov 06, 07:41

I looked into the available ACOW version and it shows the Soviets at 70% proficiency...
I think this scenario needs it as we're dealing with a well-prepared Soviet army, organisational in much better shape than historically in 1941.

Yeah- that was my intention. Stalin's Red Army wasn't really up to the task of taking on all of Europe.

Silvanski

23 Nov 06, 02:37

The intensive updated mod is nearing completion.

I just finished revising the minor Allies airforces and finished the Communist NKVD garrison OOB.

I still need to look into the garrisons TOE/supply/proficiency etc one by one cuz their strength will largely depend where they are deployed.

Some cities will be defended by a basic "mob" recruited by the NKVD (hence the name) made up of irregulars without much extra special equipment, just enough to give token resistance, while others will be a tougher nut to crack.
These garrison units will start out with a low numbers of manpower and equipment, low proficiency and readiness level and also have a lower replacement factor than the regular formations..
Immovable and on force support they will only give limited support to other Communist units and formations, but should be enough of a nuisance -or even more- to hamper Allied counterattacks.
The basic thing is that no city in Communist controlled territory will be left undefended, this to help the PO.

Of course all of this has to be tested first...

Oh one more thing: when, at last, the ultimate version will become available the file also will include a human vs human version, without the NKVD garrisons.

jeff norton

23 Nov 06, 11:32

Good news! You have my contact info - I'm on break from College (for a few more days), and can assist as you need.

All ya gotta do is ask...:laugh:

Been meaning to ask - seems many Allied minors have either little/no AA strength? By design, or, history? Been trying to seek out research to check this....

Silvanski

23 Nov 06, 13:05

many Allied minors have either little/no AA strength? By design, or, history? .

A bit of both I suppose. Apart from introducing the minor airforces and garrisons I didn't change much in the TOE

Karri

24 Nov 06, 20:33

Well, my first touch in the game. I was able to stop the Soviets outside Warsaw...a few hexes west of it. When the french and british joined, I was able to do an offensive as well. Didn't push through with it, but was certainly able to hurt the Soviets so badly that they had to concentrate on beating my attack.

I suggest that ALL the Polish formations are freed from the start(or on turn 2 at latest) and the germans 1-2 turns later than they are now.

Silvanski

24 Nov 06, 21:07

I suggest that ALL the Polish formations are freed from the start(or on turn 2 at latest) and the germans 1-2 turns later than they are now.

All Polish formations are active from turn 1 onwards. Some go into reorganisation mode.

Ben Turner

26 Nov 06, 18:18

All Polish formations are active from turn 1 onwards. Some go into reorganisation mode.

Yeah. This would be the shock effect.

Silvanski

28 Nov 06, 15:49

Yeah. This would be the shock effect.

Indeed and it's variable. If it doesn't occur you're able to put up some defense around Warsaw.
If, on the other hand, it does occur you'll have to sweat it out...

Some development news: small adjustments in the on-hand equipment inventory was needed cuz I noticed that when the Polish bomber unit reconstitued it had received the single on-hand B-17 (late) which the unit indeed is set up for to receive later in the war (if not eliminated) ... a wee bit early to have that plane already available in 1939, even a single machine... I'm sure the USAF wouldn't send their single prototype to a minor country in wartorn Europe :clown:

Activation for the Wehrmacht formations guarding the West after the French-German non-aggression agreement will now be as follows: the ones on the Dutch and Belgian border activate on turn 6, the ones guarding the French border on turns 7 and 8.

Silvanski

28 Nov 06, 18:16

In my latest test of the improved mod I was lucky to have enough mobile Polish formations on turn 1 to blow up a bunch of bridges and set up an impromptu defense line... the Soviets advanced to just east of Brest-Litovsk and north of Bialystok... Subsequently I get the first go on turn 2 which shows several formations going into reorganizing but capable of entrenching... (see screenie)

Silvanski

15 Dec 06, 13:19

The all improved mod will be available shortly.
I'm doing a last series of playtesting and making small changes here and there.

I believe now that the PO is tuff enuff.:rifle:

Here's an advance screenie.

*3 November 1939 - Trenches in Poland*

The Polish government asked and got help from Nazi Germany which halted the Soviet steamroller, for now. A bloody battle of attrition has been going on for several weeks and the frontline has more or less stabilized. But it's only a matter of weeks before a frustrated Trotski orders his troops to invade other countries.

I experienced that no two games are alike as a lot depends on what you do with your Polish units on the first few turns, and if you have enough Polish formations not going into reorganization.
Judge well where you move your German reinforcements, they won't cooperate well with other nations...
If that happens your frontline will be like a mature swiss cheese and soon you'll see Soviets roaming the German countryside...

Silvanski

15 Dec 06, 18:50

The scenario has been re-baptised "Trotsky's War" as he's the Soviet leader in this hypothetical conflict.

Available in the downloads section!

Menschenfresser

16 Dec 06, 20:19

On T7...

Do all units reconstitute in their own countries? Seems I keep having Polish regiments appearing in my front lines. The Germans reappear in Berlin, but I suppose that would change if the Soviets overrun that city. For me this is a bit annoying. I realize having foreign units reconstituting in, say, France, is also strange, but play-wise, it seems a better option than having them appear in the front lines.

So far this has just been the Poles. Since the Poles don't surrender until Berlin falls, make them reconstitute in Berlin. And since the Germans don't surrender until Paris, make them reappear in Paris. The French hopefully will reconstitute in Nantes. Austrians & Slovaks could reappear in Munich. In looking at the briefing, I only see this an issue with the countries/armies in Europe between France and Poland.

Silvanski

17 Dec 06, 03:31

German units reconstitute:
1st Army: Dusseldorf
2nd Army: Mannheim
3rd Army: Berlin suburb
4th Army: Potsdam
5th Army: Berlin
6th Army: Stuttgart
7th Army: Berlin
8th Army: Dresden
9th Army: Vienna
10th Army: Dresden
11th Army: Berlin
12th Army: Dresden
SS Pz Korps: Koln
1st Pz Korps: Berlin
2nd Pz Korps: Dresden
3rd Pz Korps: Leipzig
4th Pz Korps: Berlin
SS Motor Korps: Duisburg

The French? Sorry... it's Paris.

I kinda expected some response to the reconstitution scheme I implemented.

The reasoning behind this is that when more and more territory is lost, less and less manpower will be available to reconstitute units.
Yep, you'll be forced to preserve your units and carry out a flexible defense. Rather give up ground than burn units.
It may seem odd compared to reconstitution in most other scenarios, but after trying out various options I decided to do it this way to increase the complexity in play against the PO.

The first times I played without fixed reconstitution points I saw German panzer divisions reconstituting in... Scotland of all places. Don't get me wrong, lovely part of the world but not exactly the place where PzKpfw's would be repaired and reorganized in combat units before the British join the alliance...

With my limited experience of editing I started to modify Ben's original and learned a lot in the process, thanks to great advice from various people here and on the Matrix Games forum.
I'm satisfied with the result as it is and fairly confident that "human vs PO-only" players will enjoy it... I, for one, do... not prejudiced because it was looking at Ben's original that got me all excited.

I pass the torch on to anyone who likes to take this scenario further. I'm sure there's more potential in it than I can imagine.

Secadegas

17 Dec 06, 06:20

On T7...

Do all units reconstitute in their own countries? Seems I keep having Polish regiments appearing in my front lines. (...)

Poles usually reconstitute on or near Warsaw. If you can keep Warsaw (i never did...) they'll appear there. Since most probably Warsaw will be lost by T7 the engine will make Poles reconstitute on Warsaw closest friendly hex's meaning on the German lines on the Polish/German border. It's a bit annoying due to the non cooperative status of German and Polish forces but it's not illogical.

However (after several playtests) this is the only reconstitution case where this can happen. Other nations reconstitution works pretty well which isn't common in this type (size) of scenario. In EA you can also find occasional odd reconstitution situations.

The most extreme situation i found was a few German units reconstituting in Denmark after the fall of Germany. Not bad...

Ben Turner

17 Dec 06, 10:45

I've been dabbling with my new version of this again.... onto the Wehrmacht of 1936. With only around 30 prewar divisions, its immediate effect will be much less. But then the Soviets have only around 80 prewar divisions.

The OOB is much more colourful this time around, getting away from just being seas of divisions. Some of the colour may be inappropriate for 1936, but I've tried to avoid too many anachronisms.

Silvanski

17 Dec 06, 14:50

The most extreme situation i found was a few German units reconstituting in Denmark after the fall of Germany. Not bad...

That will be less likely now ... In the test versions there was a formation set to reconstitute near Hamburg.

Silvanski

17 Dec 06, 14:52

I've been dabbling with my new version of this again.... /.... The OOB is much more colourful this time around...

Looking forward to this one :clap:

Ben Turner

17 Dec 06, 17:31

Looking forward to this one :clap:

Well it's going to be a while. I don't have as much free time as I used to.

Silvanski

17 Dec 06, 18:07

All in due time Ben.

Silvanski

18 Dec 06, 20:05

I overlooked two things... one minor , one major.

The minor one:
The Irish airforce has to be activated on turn 40, not turn 12 as it appears. Simply change it in the deployment editor.

The major one:
With placing the exclusion zones I didn't think about the fact that Poland and East Prussia won't receive supply the first 3 turns. Thanks Ben for pointing this out.
To solve this, place an Allied supply point in hex x=108, y=75,as in this screenie... yes it is an excluded hex, but supply and units can go out of such a hex. This temporary supply point will feed Poland and East Prussia till the exclusion zone is removed....

Now add event 385 to remove this supply point as shown on the screenie.

Veers

18 Dec 06, 21:07

Silvanski

18 Dec 06, 21:30

Are you also releasing an updated version with these fixes?

Yes Wyatt. The fixed version is already available in the downloads section.

Veers

18 Dec 06, 21:54

Yes Wyatt. The fixed version is already available in the downloads section.
Excellent, I really must try this sometime....:D

Mantis

19 Dec 06, 13:37

I'm quite excited to stumble across this as well. Although the PO can never compare with a good ol'-fashioned PBEM game, sometimes there's a lot of value in simply loading up a scenario optimized for PO play, and having at 'er!

When I can actually get a few minutes to myself (hah!) I'm going to give this one a go.

Silvanski

20 Dec 06, 02:49

This one's for Secadegas:toast: ...
A "kick-ass" manoeuver by the 1st Portuguese division helped the British break out of Gibraltar :rifle:

Secadegas

20 Dec 06, 06:38

Hey... the scenario is great... but the counters... :eek: the counters... :gas:

Veers

20 Dec 06, 12:07

Hey... the scenario is great... but the counters... :eek: the counters... :gas:
True....:laugh:

Mantis

20 Dec 06, 12:14

Heh...

I have to second (or third) that sentiment! :surprise:

Silvanski

20 Dec 06, 13:02

Hey... the scenario is great... but the counters... :eek: the counters... :gas:

Beware... of .... the.... SQUARE COUNTERS mwoohahahahaaaa!!! :ar15:

Crazy Dutch

22 Dec 06, 17:10

Hi Silvanski

I have look to youre oob. And have see that no side has marines/naval infantry.

Ben Turner

22 Dec 06, 19:35

I have look to youre oob. And have see that no side has marines/naval infantry.

Well, the whole OOB is pretty dubious. I'd be the first to admit to that. However the omission of the marines isn't too big a deal. It's basically a divisional scenario and, as far as I am aware, of all the combatants in the real second world war, only the Americans formed whole divisions of marines, and these could be assumed to be supporting the Japanese in the Asiatic theatre.

That being said if I ever finish the new version you will of course see various marine units.

jeff norton

22 Dec 06, 21:47

Well, the whole OOB is pretty dubious. I'd be the first to admit to that. However the omission of the marines isn't too big a deal. It's basically a divisional scenario and, as far as I am aware, of all the combatants in the real second world war, only the Americans formed whole divisions of marines, and these could be assumed to be supporting the Japanese in the Asiatic theatre.

That being said if I ever finish the new version you will of course see various marine units.
True. No Allied Mountain troops (besides the Hungarians and Romanians) or other 'special' forces (besides the ABN units).

I've 'played' with a copy (not the newest one, since I'm still playing a test copy, and loosing bad....) and adjusted a few Allied forces as mountain troops, due to the various mountain ranges available.

Silvanski

23 Dec 06, 02:11

The basic OOB has remained virtually unchanged except for the introduction of garrisons and the minor airforces. The main aim was to turn this large scenario into one with a workable PO.

Ben's got something in the works which I'll be awaiting patiently though anxiously

Silvanski

23 Dec 06, 02:16

...I'm still playing a test copy, and loosing bad...

I've got an AAR going on in the Matrix forum.
While being on the brink of victory in Spain I'm having a hard time keeping the red hordes in check in Central Europe.

Crazy Dutch

23 Dec 06, 04:45

Well, the whole OOB is pretty dubious. I'd be the first to admit to that. However the omission of the marines isn't too big a deal. It's basically a divisional scenario and, as far as I am aware, of all the combatants in the real second world war, only the Americans formed whole divisions of marines, and these could be assumed to be supporting the Japanese in the Asiatic theatre.

That being said if I ever finish the new version you will of course see various marine units.

I think that you made a little mistake that the Americans formed only divisions. The UK had in 1940 the Royal Marine Division and I thought also a second.

The Dutch has no division, but the strength of all marines at the start of the war was about Brigade strength, and growing. At the end of the World War had they a Marines Brigade underway from the US to India.
For the Italians had the San Marco Brigade
I don't know about the French, but I think that they mayby has also a total strength of about a Division.

And let's not forgot the Soviet Union himself. They had plenty brigades of Marines/Naval Infantry Brigades in World War II

Ben Turner

23 Dec 06, 07:57

Ben's got something in the works which I'll be awaiting patiently though anxiously

Give me five years or so.

Anyway, Jeff will be pleased to hear that although I've barely started the Allied OOB I've already included four mountain units and a marine infantry brigade in the Polish force.

Ben Turner

23 Dec 06, 08:02

I think that you made a little mistake that the Americans formed only divisions. The UK had in 1940 the Royal Marine Division and I thought also a second.

The Royal Marine division never fought as a formed unit, though. So far as I'm aware there was only one and it seems only to have served as an adminstrative HQ for smaller forces.

The Dutch has no division, but the strength of all marines at the start of the war was about Brigade strength, and growing.

Yes, as I recall the Dutch marines were about the only regular troops available.

For the Italians had the San Marco Brigade

Two battalions, as I recall.

And let's not forgot the Soviet Union himself. They had plenty brigades of Marines/Naval Infantry Brigades in World War II

Well, here I have the trump card of alternate history. Wasn't most of the naval infantry formed for emergency purposes as their coastlines were swallowed up by the Axis advance? I would think the Soviets would need all the sailors they could get to defend their long coastlines from Allied raids.

Anyway, rest assured that Britain, Holland, Poland, Italy and Romania at least will have their marines and naval infantry if I ever get around to them in the new version.

Crazy Dutch

23 Dec 06, 09:42

Well, here I have the trump card of alternate history. Wasn't most of the naval infantry formed for emergency purposes as their coastlines were swallowed up by the Axis advance? I would think the Soviets would need all the sailors they could get to defend their long coastlines from Allied raids.

The Soviets had 2 types of Naval Ground Troops in world War II.
The Biggest part where as you say the sailors of the fleet. But there is also a small part of it Naval Infantry or Marines who was trained for amphibious assaults.

Anyway, rest assured that Britain, Holland, Poland, Italy and Romania at least will have their marines and naval infantry if I ever get around to them in the new version.

And mayby also France, Spain and other countries who has big navies or a long naval history.

P.s. Have you mayby a ETA of the new version.:D

And for all Merry Christmass and Happy Newyear for 2007

Silvanski

23 Dec 06, 13:50

Well, here I have the trump card of alternate history.

That's indeed a factor.
Let's not forget that this is a "what if?" scenario which allowed certain freedom in setting up the OOB.

Silvanski

23 Dec 06, 15:46

Someone on the Matrix forum pointed out that some equipment didn't go into production.
Fixed that and uploaded the updated sce file.

Silvanski

28 Dec 06, 02:03

I'm working on a prototype V3 trying out these changes.

*Corrected replacement rates. Some equipment destined for introduction on later turns didn't get produced, and other rates were extremely low.
The inventory now comes closer to the one in Ben's original.
*Later activation for Allied formations.
*Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Ireland are placed in garrison status.
*The Polish airforce is the only Allied airforce which starts on the map on turn 1. Other Allies' initial airforce units will gradually come in when they join the conflict. By turn 25 all air units that used to start on turn 1 will have appeared.

Silvanski

29 Dec 06, 04:57

Testing out these...
*Formations from Belgium, Holland, Denmark and Ireland activate on turn 350 (this means, only when they're attacked)
Italian formations only when attacked .... Italy joins the conflict on turn 90 regardless
*Same thing for naval units as for air units, introducing them as reinforcements instead of activating on a certain turn... the Commies waste too many aircraft attacking distant naval units of countries not yet at war...

Silvanski

02 Jan 07, 22:39

Testing something new...
*Surprise attacks on Norway, Sweden, Romania, Hungary, Turkey, Iraq, Portugal and the South of France will occur on variable turns. The formations of these countries will only activate one turn AFTER the latest possible turn they're attacked, unless approached of course.

jeff norton

03 Jan 07, 08:58

Give me five years or so.

Anyway, Jeff will be pleased to hear that although I've barely started the Allied OOB I've already included four mountain units and a marine infantry brigade in the Polish force.
Rah, Rah, Sis-BOOM-Bah. :hurray:

Ben Turner

03 Jan 07, 09:22

Rah, Rah, Sis-BOOM-Bah. :hurray:

Quite. The Germans for their part have just one mountain brigade (as historically) which will convert to a division over the course of the game. No more will be raised since a) most German mountain troops were apparently raised in Austria, which is independent throughout this scenario due to its 1936 start date and b) the Germans won't be doing much fighting in mountainous areas in most games. I looked into marine infantry and will probably be putting in some emergency units similar to those the Germans historically raised in the closing months of the war, perhaps on static deployment.

I suspect I may run out of units before that happens.

Silvanski

07 Jan 07, 05:09

I'm adding a factor of surprise to the scenario.
A tree of events -some linked- all with variable turn range will help to shape the opening months of the war.
The timing of the German-French non-aggression agreement will trigger subsequent events affecting where the Communist PO's will strike next.
Appearance of Allied air and naval units, and German reinforcements belonging to the West Wall formations are also affected - these units will no longer be a matter of comfort ... you don't know on which turn you're gonna get them.
The German formations along the Polish border and in East Prussia will still activate on given turns or when approached.

The second exclusion zone now isolates Germany from France so that foreign assistance can take longer before it's available.

Mantis

09 Jan 07, 01:44

Would it be possible to get the latest version and play through it? I'd be happy to provide feedback.

I'd be more than happy to wait for your next playtest version, but the thing is that I have a few days off, and I'm burning them right now... For once, my opponents in all my games of EA are not bounving turns off of me fast enough to suit, and I need something to tinker with over the next few days.

:)

If that is acceptable, my email is mantis29a*at*shaw(dot)ca

Many thanks!

Silvanski

09 Jan 07, 03:16

v3 is almost ready and I'll be sending out copies for testing. I'll add you to the crew
I've updated the scenario notes with the latest changes, the most important addition is the turn variability of Communist invasions across the theater and appearance of Allied reinforcements (units taken out the turn 1 OOB)

(and hereby I have my 100th post on the forum heehee)

Silvanski

16 Jan 07, 02:26

Encountered a weird thing... an Italian fighter unit scheduled to appear due to a certain event does appear, but at the wrong place... Instead of on its designated airfield in Northern Italy (hex is clear, not overstacked, in supply and other Italian air units did appear correctly) but... on a British aircraft carrier (which lost its airplanes due to a Soviet aerial attack two turns before)near the coast of Palestine... Itsy-bitsy bug?

I checked the event and the unit's deployment status in the editor, all seems correct...

Silvanski

17 Jan 07, 15:36

Got that fixed by assiging a different aircraft type to the unit... the Re-2000 has carrierbourne capability, that's why ... with thanks to Jamiam

Silvanski

03 Feb 07, 06:30

I encountered a major bug... When the Communists capture Berlin, the bulk of the Polish army surrenders, which happens correctly, but it also seems to cause all NKVD garrison units to vanish in thin air.... I am stunned!
There is no withdraw event included for those units...

Does anyone have a clue what might be causing this?

Secadegas

03 Feb 07, 14:16

Silvanski

03 Feb 07, 14:24

Yup I read about that...
I gave the NKVD's the same color scheme as the regular Russian army, and currently testing if this will solve the problem.

Silvanski

03 Feb 07, 15:05

Nope, problem still there... And the Polish don't surrender... although the entry in the events seems correct... I'll designate another Polish unit and see if that helps....

Silvanski

03 Feb 07, 15:40

Hurrah, got it fixed!
By designating a different Polish unit to tell the engine which colors need to be withdrawn ... but still it's puzzling why it did the wrong thing ...

Veers

03 Feb 07, 15:46

Hurrah, got it fixed!
By designating a different Polish unit to tell the engine which colors need to be withdrawn ... but still it's puzzling why it did the wrong thing ...

Because of a code error, I would imagine. The reason FitE and EA were bugling up is because if the unit picked to act as the trigger to withdraw all forces of a certain colour was destroyed before the withdrawal event then the event would randomly pick another unit (and therefore formation) to withdraw.
Although usually it doesn't also withdraw the correct Army...

Silvanski

03 Feb 07, 16:00

I assigned the Polish 1st Ftr Gr. instead of a ground unit with the same color ... An air unit will more likely be spared from elimination.

ralphtrickey

04 Feb 07, 20:47

Because of a code error, I would imagine. The reason FitE and EA were bugling up is because if the unit picked to act as the trigger to withdraw all forces of a certain colour was destroyed before the withdrawal event then the event would randomly pick another unit (and therefore formation) to withdraw.
Although usually it doesn't also withdraw the correct Army...
This was intended to sorrect events that were pointing to the wrong unit after converting from COW 100 to 300. When it loads the scenario, It checks to see if there are any withdraw events pointing to an invalid unit. Unfortunately a unit becomes invalid when it's split or withdrawn, or ...

I should have a) checked to see if it was an OPART100 scenario and b) used undefined instead of invalid.

It subtracts 1500 from the unit number, so generally withdraws an army from team 1 instead of team 2

Ralph

Silvanski

04 Mar 07, 12:15

Am testing v3 after installing the new patch and there seems to be a problem.... Elmer is running sluggish!

Silvanski

06 Mar 07, 04:57

Awaiting a solution to Elmer's slow-mo play I'm gonna mess around with the equipment editor.

The addition of Bio-Ed gave me some ideas I can implement in the scenario.
I plan to add some aircraft which didn't make it but were in advanced stages of planning or even appeared as prototype.. Don't panic, the Luftwaffe won't go roaming the skies with Luft-46 stuff like the Triebflugel or so, but in the context of this scenario by 1945 the Germans could have had succes in developing the Me-264 under their Ural Bomber program...
Other types like a worthy successor to the Bf-109 seem probable.

Appearance of these aircraft will of course only happen if Germany doesn't surrender so that means it will be in the white on grey aircraft units.

Specifications for the Me-264 will have to be somewhat similar to the USAF's B-29.

I'm gonna dig into my aircraft files... ;-)

Silvanski

08 Mar 07, 06:44

The equipment editor is a great tool. While on the road for my job -the car as think tank- I came up with something to put in the scenario.

Using bio-ed I am able to distinguish the B-29 between a conventional and a nuclear bomber. The same with the hypothetical German Me-264.
I put events in place which may make it possible for the USA and Germany to deliver a nuclear strike late in the war, by these percentages.

USA: chance of developing a nuclear bomb by 1945 75% ---> actual being able/willing to use it 50%

Germany: chance of developing nukes 50% (maybe less) ---> willing to use it 75%

The German events will be cancelled if they surrender.

The "willing to use" events then will enter an appropriate air unit for the relevant nation.

arclight

11 Mar 07, 23:09

Am testing v3 after installing the new patch and there seems to be a problem.... Elmer is running sluggish!

I thought it was me... =)

Do we have any idea why this is occuring?

Silvanski

12 Mar 07, 00:01

It seems to be connected with the updated pathfiinding.
It's especially noticable in large scenario's and/or scenarios with large formations.

I'm sure it's being looked into.
Ralph posted this in the Matrix Games forum.

Major Bugs, still in 3.1.0.9
You may experience a slowdown in some scenarios. If this happens, change the following flags in Opart 3.ini. It's in the Matrix Games/The Operational Art of War directory. They should speed things up while I look to the cause.

;Do this first
experimentalAIP2=N
experimentalAIP1=N
;Do this if still too slow
oldpathfinding=Y

arclight

13 Mar 07, 14:12

ralphtrickey

16 Mar 07, 12:29

I did that - it did help, but, there is a lag at the turn supply routine.

Also, I see there are other flags in there - any clue to what they do? The one for multiprocessors may be a big help to those running dual-core cpu's...
Probably not a big help. I had to turn it off because the sound library won't handle multiple CPUs. I need to look into that still and see why. THere's a switch for the directsound litbraries, they aren't 100% yet, but should be MP compatible.

Silvanski

08 Jun 07, 03:50

Trotsky's War v3 is available for download.

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1318

Mantis

08 Jun 07, 12:39

MAN, I can't wait to get T3 - I wanna try this out really bad!

L`zard

09 Jun 07, 01:41

Mantis: get two, LOL!

Just started this .sce, and it's *****en!

@Silvanski: WoW! Not far into it, but nice PO, Sir!

A good test of the 'new elmer', and a thoat-cutting example it is!

Silvanski

09 Jun 07, 01:48

Thanks, let me know how the situation develops.
I tried to make it a tough one.

Foggy

10 Jun 07, 10:27

Trotsky's War v3 is available for download.

http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1318

I got a wrong equipment file error message - does this scen use a different
equip. file?

Silvanski

10 Jun 07, 19:55

The Zipfile includes a separate folder containing the specific eqp file.

Foggy

13 Jun 07, 17:59

Thanks:laugh: Thru T4 - severe carnage around Warsaw :) Both thumbs up so far!

L`zard

17 Jun 07, 22:33

Silvain, et al;

One tough PO, especially for a guy that's been 'out of the saddle' for a while :D ..........

I fear to offer any sort of AAR as I'd not want to ruin anothers' game, but I will say 'read the freaking notes'!

Went to T7 befor I started to wonder what was 'really' going on, and turned the FoW setting off. Seems your PO is handing me my head!

(Oh dear, now we'll have to nuke them from orbit, LOL!)

Your PO seems to be doing a Very good job, as I saw it use an 'assault gun regiment' to perform a cavalry raid on supply lines/controlled areas by slipping thru a 3 hex wide gap. Well Eff me running, eh?

Of course, I helped by treating your elmer:PO as something from ACOW instead of what it is. Little sucker has some teeth, ya bet ya, LOL!

Who would ever believe that a PO could keep formations together and strike just the right places to unhinge a defense.

Be advised, folks, the PO gives no slack, eh? Took me 'till T5 to realize what the PO was doing, and by then it was a bit late for an easy correction.

What's most noteworthy, is that One needs keep serious reserves against the actions of the PO, something I didn't find all that neccesary in ACOW.

Maybe this is due simply to Silvain's excellent 'scripted' PO, or to some extent the new elmer, I'm some kinda seriously impressed, eh?

To any of you who wonder why spend the bucks for 'the same game', well, It's not the same game you used to play! It's 'obscene'........:nuts:
--------------
ToaW 4: mouse-wheel (scrolling) map-magnification, more spaces in the event engine, a 'cleaner' editor ;)

Silvanski

17 Jun 07, 23:23

Thanks for the response Kurt.
It took lots and lots of test runs to get the PO tracks about just right, but I believe a lot of credit has to go to the improved Elmer. I have no experience with its behaviour in ACOW but from what I read he's come a long way since then.

That Elmer has got you by the throat this time doesn't mean it will be the next time you start the scenario. The variable turn events in the beginning play a part in release of Allied (especially German) reinforcements.
OK it's a bit of a lottery, but this seemed the best way to simulate the carousel of diplomatics which lead to a French-German agreement.

And yeah... do read the freaking notes LOL I have to remind myself to write down tiny details before playing a scenario, whether or not against Elmer, cuz one might overlook something important which can be beneficial to your defenses.

L`zard

18 Jun 07, 21:38

Silvain;

Do note that I'm not at all unhappy that my mistakes (so far) are about to bring a fearful retribution down on me, :lier: , as they were all things that I'd never have done vs a human.

Lacking anything besides the motorized divisions to use for recon purposes, I basically said 'no fear' and charged off into the blue, w/o doing any serious recon at all. WHOOPS! Methinx that breaking said divs down and letting them swan off and possibly get eaten would be cheaper than the 2 GE armies hanging thier collective asses out in E. Prussia are going to be, LOL!

Seduced by the empty map! We've all read about that, nicht wahr? Mea Culpa, mea culpa, chit! Fog of War is not your friend, :p !

Having buttered my buns, I think I'll lay down in them and see how the game continues, eh? As you say: 'it's all about the event engine', and I'm having fun figuring out what's happening from observation alone.

If you wish, I'll email/pm screenies, but I don't think I should do same 'openly' as the scenario is at it's best when one doesn't see the future, eh? Especially for one that's this long.....;) , and another reason to continue, glaring idiocies or no :paperbag: , lol!

I rate this scenario as 'well worth your time', and :thumup: :thumup: and a :hail: for your conversion!

Silvanski

19 Jun 07, 03:10

Thanks for the positive remarks L'z Fog of war is one of the nice things in TOAW aye ;-)
Yeah I'd like to see some screenies if possible... silvanski -at- gmail dot com

L`zard

19 Jun 07, 21:19

Thanks for the positive remarks L'z Fog of war is one of the nice things in TOAW aye ;-)
Yeah I'd like to see some screenies if possible... silvanski -at- gmail dot com

Happy to oblige, Silvain. Gimme a couple o' days, and I'll try to scrape together a mini-aar for ya, eh?

Time has been a problem here-to-for, but should have more from now on. Still want to run this particular game some more, eh?

Silvanski

20 Jun 07, 00:08

Yeah when running it a couple of times you'll notice the variability

Foggy

20 Jun 07, 20:35

Yeah when running it a couple of times you'll notice the variability

:D I ran the first turn 6 times in a row - Elmer did the same airdrops each time;) Still early - but this might rank w/Fall Grau for enjoyment:smoke:
Any plans for a PBEM version to date?

Silvanski

21 Jun 07, 01:08

Something for (maybe) a later version might be variable PO tracks, once I mastered that part of editing... that would make the airdrops less predictable.

For a PBEM version I'll have to blunt the Commie side a bit

BTW Fall Grau, is that the one "under development" over at TDG or is it actually available? ... there are several Invasion USA scenarios but from the AAR's this one seems very interesting.

L`zard

21 Jun 07, 20:54

:D I ran the first turn 6 times in a row - Elmer did the same airdrops each time ;)

@Foggy; possibly due to Commies having 1st initiative in T1, eh? Not much I've found to due about the commie/paras exept respond asap (right, lol)....

@All; I'll note that the PO looks for not only the 'supply' sources, but seems to look for weaknesses in your own supply lines, and executes 'move to contact' measures upon same!

Morale of the Story: Don't hang your ass out, this isn't ACOW! Got 'raided' early in the game by a regimental size unit through a fairly small hole in the my lines. Supply raids can really screw up your day, LOL!

Foggy

21 Jun 07, 22:28

@Foggy; possibly due to Commies having 1st initiative in T1, eh? Not much I've found to due about the commie/paras exept respond asap (right, lol)....

@All; I'll note that the PO looks for not only the 'supply' sources, but seems to look for weaknesses in your own supply lines, and executes 'move to contact' measures upon same!

Morale of the Story: Don't hang your ass out, this isn't ACOW! Got 'raided' early in the game by a regimental size unit through a fairly small hole in the my lines. Supply raids can really screw up your day, LOL!

This might make a great scen for a beginner's workshop - either side actually - get pummeled or do the pummeling;)

Silvanski

22 Jun 07, 00:39

This might make a great scen for a beginner's workshop - either side actually - get pummeled or do the pummeling;)

I must say that testing it helped me learn defensive play.

L`zard

22 Jun 07, 21:27

I must say that testing it helped me learn defensive play.

Roger that, Silvain, :laugh:

Or to realize one has something to learn, heh heh!

arclight

16 Aug 07, 16:31

I must say that testing it helped me learn defensive play.

Ditto... There is more to defense than just stacked units... and Elmer is a good teacher.

arclight

16 Aug 07, 20:29

Oh, BTW, how is ver 4 coming along? I am still able to assist, seeing how the degree work is over....
...now, to replay the 'investment'...

Silvanski

17 Aug 07, 00:40

Oh, BTW, how is ver 4 coming along? I am still able to assist, seeing how the degree work is over....
...now, to replay the 'investment'...

v4 has some changes and corrections/enhancements to the PO

When I get into v5 I'll send you a test copy.. I wanna experiment with variable objective tracks for the Commies attacking Poland and Germany

arclight

17 Aug 07, 10:21

v4 has some changes and corrections/enhancements to the PO

When I get into v5 I'll send you a test copy.. I wanna experiment with variable objective tracks for the Commies attacking Poland and Germany

Cool beans!

Silvanski

17 Aug 07, 18:39

Cool beans!

That's only the side dish for the BBQ I have in mind :laugh:
Many ideas in the back of my skull ...

Foggy

17 Aug 07, 21:42

That's only the side dish for the BBQ I have in mind :laugh:
Many ideas in the back of my skull ...
I'm enjoying my hot seat game - close to France on T15;) happy to playtest
any options:smoke:

Silvanski

18 Aug 07, 04:49

I'm enjoying my hot seat game - close to France on T15;) happy to playtest

:eek:The Commies blasted through Germany it seems.

any options:smoke:

Pray:cool:

Dicke Bertha

23 Aug 07, 16:15

Wow what a scenario, it's the most fun one I ever tried solitaire. February '40 and the French blindées are counterattacking viciously at Bucharest and Oradea-Debrecen area, with Rumanians, Serbs, Bulgarians and Hungarians, and a French infantry army in action, mainly in Hungary. Rumania is a huge open maelstroem!

I understand Ben would like to redo the OOB and has little time for it, no problem, but I'd like to opinion that the immediate establishment of communist garrisons is a real killer of manouever warfare - and hardly feels realistic anyway, especially since smallish towns recruit communist garrisions, but the Allies have no such benefits (yet?). Do away with the garrisons, or at least have some appear at least in friendly (allied) harbours etc (Sweden and Denmark lie wide open for commie invasions). The rationale for revolution-style communist garrisons in Norwegian fishermen's ports simply evade me... :)

Silvanski

24 Aug 07, 02:31

Nice to hear you like the mod, and I see you dispatched the French to Hungary.. a favorite move on my behalf ;-)
The idea behind those garrisons was to block some supply lines for an Allied counterattack , making it harder... the "philosophy" behind it is that it are NKVD occupation forces, either with or without local recruits.
You'll notice they start with low figures, building up after time... trying to knock some out early on may benefit you in the long run

Dicke Bertha

28 Aug 07, 15:36

Yep, I had to send the French down there to save Rumania. Which anyway was lost! Soviets took Bucharest and the Rumanians disappeared, I had to quickly vacate Rumania, and save my French. I only sent one third of the French down there, to save Rumania, I'd have to send two thirds of the French. Those other thirds I used to take out Spain, and salvage the Levant. And Norway, Sweden, Finland was taken thanks to massive amounts of British troops sent. Around T40 I invaded Helsinki, Tallinn, and then marched on Leningrad with two French and one German army, the city fell after a few turns. Elmer isn't so great at guarding his flanks?

Polish front holds! Hungary and Rumania (again with French and also Brits) in the progress of being retaken (not sure it will work).

Wow! :)

Edit: Elmer also doesn't finish the job; at Bagdad he takes the city, but leaves enough enemies surviving outside to lose it again, etc etc, and the poor Iranians shuffle back and forth between the Med and Bagdad... Elmer is really clever though in Rumania, and conducts offensives and counter-offensives quite inexpectedly, human almost.

Silvanski

29 Aug 07, 04:50

I aknowledge the Baghdad situation ... but then again... insurgent combatants are not an uncommon thing in that part of the world aye.

For a distant future update I'll look into multiple objective tracks in order to let Elmer take care of Allied counters strikes via Scandinavia

arclight

01 Sep 07, 09:49

That's only the side dish for the BBQ I have in mind :laugh:
Many ideas in the back of my skull ...

Such as....?:cheeky:

My only suggestion is the addition of additional Arty for the US Corps. They had ample guns/units at this level to assist the attached DIV's. I've read several accounts of the Germans (and, Japanese) commenting on the 'average-ness' of the GI, but, they feared the raw power of accurate, concentrated US support fire.

Maybe either add an additional unit, or, <gasp> add guns to the Corps HQ (probally not the best idea)

Silvanski

01 Sep 07, 14:53

Such as....?:cheeky:

My only suggestion is the addition of additional Arty for the US Corps.

Good point. There are other aspects of equipment to be looked into.
Also addition of different specialized units, maybe replacing some infantry with mountain... the Austrians in the Wehrmacht perhaps

arclight

01 Sep 07, 14:58

Good point. There are other aspects of equipment to be looked into.
Also addition of different specialized units, maybe replacing some infantry with mountain... the Austrians in the Wehrmacht perhaps

We think alike...:surprise:

I've been looking at the OOB/Forces, and reasoned that, the Commies are pretty well defined, but, the Allies are, at best, a mixed bag.

Beyond writing a Thesis on this, I guess 'a little attention' would be nice (refining, adding, 'special units', removing, etc).

-J (not that I'm writing a thesis...)

Silvanski

01 Sep 07, 15:09

I also found a decent Turkish OOB for that era, so that's one to work on...

Silvanski

02 Sep 07, 05:30

I removed Trotsky from the downloads section as an updated version comes with the 3.2 patch.
It features several "under the hood" fixes and the PO in the southeast European theater has been revised

Bill II

07 Sep 07, 13:59

Such as....?:cheeky:

My only suggestion is the addition of additional Arty for the US Corps. They had ample guns/units at this level to assist the attached DIV's. I've read several accounts of the Germans (and, Japanese) commenting on the 'average-ness' of the GI, but, they feared the raw power of accurate, concentrated US support fire.

Maybe either add an additional unit, or, <gasp> add guns to the Corps HQ (probally not the best idea)

For players looking for more of a challenge, you could replace Nazi Germany with the Weimar Republic & a separate Austria.

arclight

07 Sep 07, 14:34

For players looking for more of a challenge, you could replace Nazi Germany with the Weimar Republic & a separate Austria.

Hi Bill (Like your Avatar - looks like me on Monday morning...)

Hmmm - good idea. But, things (like the SS units, equipment DB, etc) would need an overhaul to handle this 'hypotetical' adjustment.

But, food for thought...

-Jeff

Foggy

07 Sep 07, 23:25

Such as....?:cheeky:

My only suggestion is the addition of additional Arty for the US Corps. They had ample guns/units at this level to assist the attached DIV's. I've read several accounts of the Germans (and, Japanese) commenting on the 'average-ness' of the GI, but, they feared the raw power of accurate, concentrated US support fire.

Maybe either add an additional unit, or, <gasp> add guns to the Corps HQ (probally not the best idea)

There are so many comments in German personal histories - getting acquired by American artillery was the biggest fear - don't know about the Japanese:laugh:
I would think that naval artillery in support - much larger calibers - fewer shells - still would be far worse:smoke:

Dicke Bertha

09 Sep 07, 06:57

Silvanski

09 Sep 07, 07:13

Is there anyway for the Soviet player of knowing when his various armies activate?

second line units activate based on the events happening in the Allied camp...
you're on t5, it won't take long now

Dicke Bertha

09 Sep 07, 07:27

second line units activate based on the events happening in the Allied camp...
you're on t5, it won't take long now

Merci beaucoup. Another question, bridge repair, at least RR bridges, is there an auto-repair working, or do I need to use infantry divisions for this? Have a feeling that some bridges in my rear were repaired automatically, but I am not sure. Otherwise, a few engineer brigades might be called for?

Silvanski

09 Sep 07, 14:12

RR destruction and repair is set automatic... there are enigneer squads present in armoured units

Dicke Bertha

10 Sep 07, 14:47

Danke, danke. Seems also that most Polish infantry divisions have higher engineering capacity than the Germans (haven't gone through too many though). Minor thing if at all important.

At T48 in my solitaire, Hungary is almost cleaned up, and Rumania, and short time objective is to retake the formidable defensive line of the Carpathians, i.e. starting positions in the south. No further offensives planned into Russia/Ukraine planned.

And Elmer went beserk in Turkey and let himself be surrounded by cavalry. First the army along the Black Sea thrust itself into a mire of defenses and was eliminated quickly, then the one in the centre.

On all flanks the massive Allied navies make too much impact, the Soviets don't have anything to counter this with. Maybe the Soviets should be given some equivalent of Stuka units to represent submarines or something.

Just some random notes. :)

And the Allies typically have two rounds per turn, sovietsky Elmer one, so no supply drains are in effect.

Foggy

12 Sep 07, 14:42

Is there anyway for the Soviet player of knowing when his various armies activate? T5 and Soviets are mostly on the German-Polish border, with Germans fully active, and Soviet supply shortage is already felt. I need to know what reinforcements I can expect, where and when. :smoke:

T5 turn sent to DB - German borders still in place - I know it's not a PBEM scenario but this could be a great one:bite:

Bill II

13 Sep 07, 20:07

Hi Bill (Like your Avatar - looks like me on Monday morning...)

Hmmm - good idea. But, things (like the SS units, equipment DB, etc) would need an overhaul to handle this 'hypotetical' adjustment.

But, food for thought...

-Jeff

On the bright side, you'd be removing things rather than adding new ones. The Weimar army had 7 infantry divisions, 3 cavalry divisions & (I think) 1 mountain rgt. Their unit proficiency would be high as they were very selective with their recruiting.

My avatar is taken from a famous Vietnam era cartoon by Gahan Wilson. The Caption reads "I think I won"

Silvanski

13 Sep 07, 23:11

Plenty of interesting ideas for Trotsky v5 , thanks guys

Dicke Bertha

14 Sep 07, 15:28

Plenty of interesting ideas for Trotsky v5 , thanks guys

I'll start with a hmm low-intensity pbem AAR in the AAR section. Although the scenario wasn't designed for pbem, hopefully reckless Soviet attacks and expected hillbilly-style (sorry Foggy, that'd be you :bite:) Allied counterattacks will make it useful for you should your ever-increasing burdens ;) allow for adjustment (if at all called for).

Foggy

14 Sep 07, 15:41

I'll start with a hmm low-intensity pbem AAR in the AAR section. Although the scenario wasn't designed for pbem, hopefully reckless Soviet attacks and expected hillbilly-style (sorry Foggy, that'd be you :bite:) Allied counterattacks will make it useful for you should your ever-increasing burdens ;) allow for adjustment (if at all called for).

Hey - just as long as you remember my slogan - " Heavy losses for non important areas that have no point values" - you too can be a Russian:halo:

Dicke Bertha

14 Sep 07, 15:46

Hey - just as long as you remember my slogan - " Heavy losses for non important areas that have no point values" - you too can be a Russian:halo:
LOL - That is, since the old days of DnO multiplayer, doctrine!

Silvanski

14 Sep 07, 15:59

I'll start with a hmm low-intensity pbem AAR in the AAR section. Although the scenario wasn't designed for pbem,

note to self: make pbem version of next update ;)
I bet theater options for planned invasions would be nice

Dicke Bertha

14 Sep 07, 16:04

note to self: make pbem version of next update ;)
I bet theater options for planned invasions would be nice

Спасибо! das wäre was! :bandit::clap:

Foggy

14 Sep 07, 17:22

note to self: make pbem version of next update ;)
I bet theater options for planned invasions would be nice

also an update for reinforcements on a realistic schedule for the Allies would be great:laugh: The map is excellent - I don't like the fortress units upon capture - maybe a turn or two at 1/1 status?

arclight

14 Sep 07, 20:14

also an update for reinforcements on a realistic schedule for the Allies would be great:laugh:
I agree - producing over 300 fighters, 300 Shermans, etc a week seems *huge*, even for Detroit in 1944...

The map is excellent - I don't like the fortress units upon capture - maybe a turn or two at 1/1 status?
Good map - I wonder if the NKVD troops could start at the lowest levels, since, they form upon capture of the city. Follow-on, to be sure, but only obtaining organization, after time...

The Allied OOB does need a bit more attention...

Foggy

14 Sep 07, 22:17

I agree - producing over 300 fighters, 300 Shermans, etc a week seems *huge*, even for Detroit in 1944...

Good map - I wonder if the NKVD troops could start at the lowest levels, since, they form upon capture of the city. Follow-on, to be sure, but only obtaining organization, after time...

The Allied OOB does need a bit more attention...

DB and I just started playtesting this - we tend to joke about many different
ie off thread items - but I still smile as the Germans are Allied forces in 1939:D

Silvanski

15 Sep 07, 02:53

I wonder if the NKVD troops could start at the lowest levels, since, they form upon capture of the city. Follow-on, to be sure, but only obtaining organization, after time...

Various aspects can be addressed for a future update...

-I already had lowered the starting values of the city garrisons... it can get lower.
-Production can be lowered as well...
-OOB overhaul

Silvanski

15 Sep 07, 15:44

I agree - producing over 300 fighters, 300 Shermans, etc a week seems *huge*, even for Detroit in 1944....

In Europe Aflame, Shermans are produced a rato of 130-something a week...
In 'Trotksy' Shermans are also set to upgrade other nation's units, hence the higher production, but replacement priorities are lower for the minor allied countries..

BTW are you using v3 or the v4 which comes with the beta patch?
In v4 some numbers has been lowered

Silvanski

15 Sep 07, 15:47

In Europe Aflame, Shermans are produced a rato of 130-something a week...
In 'Trotksy' Shermans are also set to upgrade other nation's units, hence the higher production, but replacement priorities are lower for the minor allied countries..

Note that the 300 figure in Trotsky is the "ideal" production figure... the Allies will have lost some % of replacement with the loss of certain cities

arclight

19 Sep 07, 16:46

In Europe Aflame, Shermans are produced a rato of 130-something a week...
In 'Trotksy' Shermans are also set to upgrade other nation's units, hence the higher production, but replacement priorities are lower for the minor allied countries..
Gotcha... makes sense now...

BTW are you using v3 or the v4 which comes with the beta patch?
In v4 some numbers has been lowered
V3 -

I've been looking at the Allied OOB - practically no low AA guns (the Belgians/Dutch have just MG's) for the Brits, odd equipment load-outs (various), and other oddities. I think some Lend Lease gear would bubble to the minor Allied troopies, even at reduced rates. Heck, even M3 Lee/Grants are far better than some of the Italian stuff...

Foggy

19 Sep 07, 17:42

Gotcha... makes sense now...

V3 -

I've been looking at the Allied OOB - practically no low AA guns (the Belgians/Dutch have just MG's) for the Brits, odd equipment load-outs (various), and other oddities. I think some Lend Lease gear would bubble to the minor Allied troopies, even at reduced rates. Heck, even M3 Lee/Grants are far better than some of the Italian stuff...

I don't know about the M3 Lee/Grants - rereading "An army at Dawn" - basically target practice for the 88's:eek: Given this though - I have read historical articles that claimed the Dutch had very good (20mm) low level AA-
and ruined the Luftwaffe transports - is this correct?

Silvanski

19 Sep 07, 23:46

I have read historical articles that claimed the Dutch had very good (20mm) low level AA-
and ruined the Luftwaffe transports - is this correct?

Correct...

Ben Turner

02 Oct 07, 11:06

I've been looking at the Allied OOB

That would be my fault (unless Silvanksi has done more than I thought). I designed that OOB a long time ago, and now I know better.

arclight

02 Oct 07, 12:09

That would be my fault (unless Silvanksi has done more than I thought). I designed that OOB a long time ago, and now I know better.
No blame game. Just insight and curiosity...

Silvanski

03 Oct 07, 08:10

No blame game. Just insight and curiosity...

For Trotsky v5 the OOB will get a major overhaul...

Crazy Dutch

03 Oct 07, 09:30

For Trotsky v5 the OOB will get a major overhaul...

For the OOB overhaul have I a suggestion. To add marines /Naval Infantry.

The Netherlands had on start of WWII in Netherlands 3 Marines Battalions and Independent units, say a Brigade. The UK had a Division. The Soviets had some Brigades. Most Countries who had a Navy had also Marine Units.

Silvanski

03 Oct 07, 14:15

For the OOB overhaul have I a suggestion. To add marines /Naval Infantry.

The Netherlands had on start of WWII in Netherlands 3 Marines Battalions and Independent units, say a Brigade. The UK had a Division. The Soviets had some Brigades. Most Countries who had a Navy had also Marine Units.

Good point. Diversified units will be one of the new features.
I also have gotten suggestions for mountain units.

uprrslo

28 Oct 07, 21:22

I am looking for this scenario but can't find it. Has it been taken off GS? Thanks.

Silvanski

28 Oct 07, 21:55

I am looking for this scenario but can't find it. Has it been taken off GS? Thanks.

An updated version has been included in the latest official patch

arclight

06 Mar 08, 14:33

*bump*

Any updates?

Silvanski

06 Mar 08, 15:54

*bump*

Any updates?

Not yet from this side. I have some ideas but that's what they are, only ideas.
Maybe Ben's got something under development

whaleofashrimp

13 Mar 08, 00:31

chemical weapons should play a part in this game....trotsky had a zelous love affair during the civil war gassing rebellious peasents armned with pitch forks.
I dont think he would be as hesitant to use them against hitler when the going got rough
of course he might abstan if he realizes exactly how much more leathel german nerve gas is compaired to ww1 era musterd and chlorine

whaleofashrimp

13 Mar 08, 00:37

not game...scenario
(in my most dramatic voice)
we are dealing with millions of digitized lives in this simulation...hardly a mere "game

Silvanski

13 Mar 08, 01:42

good idea for a future update

whaleofashrimp

13 Mar 08, 02:09

have you-or anyone else here- thought of modeling another theater of this war like the southeast Asian theater? even with almost 15 years of rapid modernization and construction I don't see the soviet navy standing a chance against the combined power of the British,french and Japanese Navies....not to mention the Americans....I'd foresee it as a fluid land war with the Communist forces using massive but underequiped numbers to dominate the mainland while the western powers used there naval/air supremacy and maneuverability to pick and choose where and when to attack...make amphibious landings/airdrops to cut off and isolate army's and bring massive firepower to bear against targeted formations

my laptop got smashed on christmas :mad:
so I'm forced to use this damned mac :(
But my budget plan allows me to buy a brand spanking new one in may and I'll be ordering toaw 3 in advance...I loved my acow back in the day and only recently found out about the sequel...can't wait to get reacquainted with the program i spent many a lonely Saturday night in high school with