Gun Accuracy

[Jeff Leslie]

There was another thread where we started discussing gun accuracy, so I thought I would dedicate a new thread to the subject.

Here are some statistics on expended ammo & gun accuracy derived from the game log, pulled immediately following an engagement involving the 4 Russian Vladivostok cruisers and 10 Japanese PC's/AC's in a campaign generated engagement. Normally I would have run from such a match up, but Vladivostok port was on the map so I figured I'd make a running gunfight into port. The range got a little too close for comfort, so a lot of the smaller stuff was expended. Sea state was 1, clear weather daylight engagement.

2402 75mm L50 Gun rounds were fired, with 1632 hits.
(Russia, 67% accuracy)

171 120mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 116 hits.
(Russia, 67% accuracy)

2269 152mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 845 hits.
(Russian, 37% accuracy)

56 203mm L35 Gun rounds were fired, with 7 hits.
(Russian, 12% accuracy)

300 203mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 89 hits.
(Russian, 29% accuracy)

172 47mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 0 hits.
(Japan, 0% accuracy)

636 57mm L43 Gun rounds were fired, with 2 hits.
(Japan, .31% accuracy)

2400 76mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 1 hits.
(Japan, .04% accuracy)

5616 120mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 7 hits.
(Japan, .12% accuracy)

5689 152mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 31 hits.
(Japan, .54% accuracy)

2012 152mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 7 hits.
(Japan, .35% accuracy)

422 203mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 0 hits.
(Jap, 0% accuracy)

14 457mm Whitehead Torpedo rounds were fired, with 0 hits
(Japan, 0% accuracy)

Total gun rounds fired, all calibers, both sides (excluding torpedoes):
22,145

Jap rounds fired, all calibers minus torpedoes:
16,947

Russian rounds fired, all calibers:
5198

The AI Japanese crossed my T to the rear as I was fleeing into port, which might explain the higher number of rounds fired, not to mention 10 Jap ships versus my 4.

Average Jap accuracy:
.19%

Average Russian accuracy:
42%

I'm not sure how the game_log file works - are these statistics only from this session (meaning from when tactical game was entered to when it was exited)? If so, then there was about 10 minutes of shooting not accounted for here, the engagement started last night and I saved about 10 minutes into it and finished it this morning)

I'm also making an assumption that in the game_log file, all the Russian guns are listed first and then Japanese second.

Conclusions
Contrary to a statement I made in the other post where I said that human controlled Russian accuracy sucked, you can see here that it is quite lopsidedly just the opposite of that statement!

My theory (based on some assumptions) as to the poor Japanese accuracy is that the AI Jap seems to point a line of ships right at the enemy and continues to steer right at the center of mass of the enemy, which means that the Jap is constantly in a state of turning, even though it might be slight. You can see this for yourself - if you look at the AI lines, they tend to be bowed in the middle, and you can see that the AI is constantly steering toward your ships. We as humans tend to keep our lines on a straighter course (at least I do), and I assume that the game probably degrades the accuracy algorithms when a ship is turning and improves them the longer a ship stays on a steady heading & speed.

Not sure if this theory can account for the extreme difference in accuracy though, so I think there must be more to it.

Cheers

[sea knight]

One of the factor can be this:
The A.I. usually start firing from long distances where hits occurs rarely altrought can be devastating because the steep diving angle that permit breaking of the thiny deck armor.
This is more a tactical choiche to trade off between the eventuality of some lucky shots and the risk of being at very short distance with almost all ammo depleted.
Pheraps this is one of the factors that somehow explains the wide difference between the the ratio Hits/Shots.

[NormKoger]

One does have to be careful when interpreting the log. It is accurate, as far as it goes, but it leaves a bit out - including the different circumstances under which the weapons were fired. The logs are intended as debugging aids, and most of the output was designed to help us make sure specific things are working the way we intend. Weapon statistics are not, for example, carefully managed across different battles. So they provide a very strange picture of what happened if you load multiple battles, etc. If you wade through the logs, they can provide a bit of insight into the workings of the game, but you should take any conclusions about things like battle statistics with a grain of salt the size of Lot's wife...

Some of the stuff in the logs may eventually find its way, in a more polished form, into logs or in-game displays intended for player use.

[Mobeer]

I have a more interesting game log:

67887 76mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 3997 hits. (5.9% hits)
600 75mm L50 Gun rounds were fired, with 9866 hits. (1644% hits)
109 152mm L35 Gun rounds were fired, with 78 hits. (71.6% hits)
725 152mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 3796 hits. (524% hits)
33885 152mm L40 Gun rounds were fired, with 1152 hits. (3.4% hits)
2269 152mm L45 Gun rounds were fired, with 77 hits. (3.4% hits)

Could it be local weapons firing without expending any ammunition?

[Tom Hunter]

This is my favorite from the log file:

4 57mm Whitehead Torpedo rounds were fired, with 1 hits.

That was from Markov's sortie, which I keep winning (as the Russians) inspite of screw ups like setting the game at speed x20 and running most of my ships aground after the battle.

Which ship has the 57mm torpedo? it must be cute, can I get one dressed in baby cloths?

[saddletank]

57mm torpedo?

Sounds like a pocket rocket :laugh:

[Marinebaurat]

Do gun crews develop and improve during the game if they practice, i.e. shoot a lot? My impression after two days of playing the campaign is that the Japanese usually shoot more accurately and reload more quickly. I had a fight between Japanese and Russion amoured cruisers this morning and due to the precise and quick shooting of the Japanese the Russian ships did't really have a chance. They achieved only a few hits and in time the Russian gun crews needed to shoot one broadside the Japanese could do nearly three.

[SunScream]

In the sim ships crews have an efficiency rating. The Japanese tend to have a higher rating than the Russians. Presumably this has an effect on rates of fire.

[Mobeer]

Marinebaurat,

I'm not aware of any improvement (or worsening) in crew quality happening over the period of a campaign.

Note the rates of fire from the manual:

Name Country Rate of fire (rpm) Armoured Cruisers
203mm L35 Russia 0.67 Ryurik, Admiral Nakhimov
203mm L45 Russia 1.5 Gromoboi, Rossiya, Bayan
203mm L40 Japan 2 Asama, Tokiwa, Idzumo, Iwate, Yakumo, Adzuma
203mm L45 Japan 2 Nisshin, Kasuga

This suggests the Japanese ships will fire 6 shots per gun in 3 minutes, with the Russians firing either 2 or 4 shots per gun. Also, this assumes no damage - if the Japanese are firing faster, they should be more likely to damage or destroy the Russian gun mounts.

[Marinebaurat]

Thanks, Mobeer,

this seems to account for what happenend to my Russian cruisers. Damned, I told the captains not to mess with the Japanase if possible, but they wanted to sink this auxiliary cruiser at all costs! Well, I suppose they got what they deserved, stupids ...

[saddletank]

I'm not aware of any improvement (or worsening) in crew quality happening over the period of a campaign.

You may not be aware of it but it is in there; for ships which have not 'rested' for more than 30 days, crew efficiency begins to drop. There is no improvement, I would consider this war to be of too short a duration for crew efficiency to increase with experience.

[Daedalus]

Marinebaurat,

I'm not aware of any improvement (or worsening) in crew quality happening over the period of a campaign.

Note the rates of fire from the manual:

Name Country Rate of fire (rpm) Armoured Cruisers
203mm L35 Russia 0.67 Ryurik, Admiral Nakhimov
203mm L45 Russia 1.5 Gromoboi, Rossiya, Bayan
203mm L40 Japan 2 Asama, Tokiwa, Idzumo, Iwate, Yakumo, Adzuma
203mm L45 Japan 2 Nisshin, Kasuga

This suggests the Japanese ships will fire 6 shots per gun in 3 minutes, with the Russians firing either 2 or 4 shots per gun. Also, this assumes no damage - if the Japanese are firing faster, they should be more likely to damage or destroy the Russian gun mounts.

Mobeer the computer controled Japanese ships will start firiing at a longer distatance away than I or most people will. This will cause them to miss more, but on the other hand if they get a hit from that far away it is almost always a hit that will sink a ship or damage it to the point it will have to return to port, as the angle of the shot will come almost straight down onto the target ship and miss most of the heave armor.
But yes they will have a higher miss rate.