map designing

[m5000]

are there any tips that experienced map designers can give to rookies

i know that it's all up to a particular scenario and a map area, but you sometimes hear that a scenario was updated and the map was optimised for faster supply calculations, etc., so i reckon there must be some map making dos and don't, especially with huge maps

[Bob Cross]

are there any tips that experienced map designers can give to rookies

i know that it's all up to a particular scenario and a map area, but you sometimes hear that a scenario was updated and the map was optimised for faster supply calculations, etc., so i reckon there must be some map making dos and don't, especially with huge maps

I've written a couple of articles on map making that are in the article section of this board. You might want to look them over:

http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/?p=10

http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/?p=11

Supply calculations are affected exponentially by supply radius and linearly by number of supply points and map useable land area.

[m5000]

ok, thanks

[Chuck]

I suggest you use ODD if you haven't done so already.

http://www.tdg.nu/download/odd.htm

[Bdr.Mallette]

I've got some good links for maps if ya needs 'em.


bdr.

[m5000]

I've got some good links for maps if ya needs 'em.


bdr.
what kinds of maps are these? europe? asia?

[m5000]

I suggest you use ODD if you haven't done so already.

http://www.tdg.nu/download/odd.htm
it was written for older versions of TOAW, does it still work well with TOAW III?

[sstevens06]

it was written for older versions of TOAW, does it still work well with TOAW III?


The map scaler is not version-specific.

[Ben Turner]

The map scaler is not version-specific.

Or indeed game specific. You could use the output for anything you wanted.

This is the easiest way to make a good map. I've used it many times. Probably the best way, though, is Bob Cross' latlong program, linked above. That'll get everything exactly right.

[Bill II]

Or indeed game specific. You could use the output for anything you wanted.

This is the easiest way to make a good map. I've used it many times. Probably the best way, though, is Bob Cross' latlong program, linked above. That'll get everything exactly right.

I'm sure that Curt Chambers will have a special place in wargamer's Valhalla for writing that program.

[Bdr.Mallette]

hey,

lotsa different kinds.... some military...some just topographical...etc...

what do ya need?

bdr.

[m5000]

if you had and could share maps of central europe, esp. poland, eastern germany, western byelorussia and ukraine, the czech republic, the baltic states (esp lithuania), about 1:300 000 would be perfect, topographical or military, the older, the better, preferably 1938-1946, or maps of ww2 fortifications in the above-mentioned areas

[Bdr.Mallette]

hey,

here is a pretty good link for a lot of maps.
I should probably post this in the download section...

hope you find what you need.

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/mapworld/index.html

(click on Select country on the right)

as well as....this is a common link though...
the first link may be the best..the latter is more military and historic.

http://militaryhistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=militaryhistory&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lib.utexas.edu%2Fmaps%2Fhistor ical%2Fhistory_ww2.html

Good luck eh!

Bombardier

[Ben Turner]

Goran usually has something. You can ask here;
http://www.tdg.nu/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1152523100

[m5000]

I've written a couple of articles on map making that are in the article section of this board. You might want to look them over:

http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/?p=10

http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/?p=11

Supply calculations are affected exponentially by supply radius and linearly by number of supply points and map useable land area.

1. it's about the latlong program

you write that the program gives latlong values for each hex, i'm trying to make sense of all these numbers... - do the latlong coordinates generated by your program indicate central points of each hex?

2. also, the New Millenium World Atlas that you mention has a 'Locator Map' option which can be 'Globe' or 'Wall Map' - does the choice here make any difference as far as coordinates are concerned? in fact, there is also "Hide' - which option should be used for best accuracy?

[Ben Turner]

1. it's about the latlong program

you write that the program gives latlong values for each hex, i'm trying to make sense of all these numbers... - do the latlong coordinates generated by your program indicate central points of each hex?

That's my understanding. Find the latitude and longitude of any point and then find the cell on the spreadsheet (you did import it into excel, right?) which is closest to that.

[m5000]

That's my understanding. Find the latitude and longitude of any point and then find the cell on the spreadsheet (you did import it into excel, right?) which is closest to that.

yes i did, i got something like this:

[m5000]

so, e.g. the central pooint of hex 1 is (56.9775, 15.0042), the central point of another hex i (56.9550, 15.0908), and so on ?

[Ben Turner]

so, e.g. the central pooint of hex 1 is (56.9775, 15.0042), the central point of another hex i (56.9550, 15.0908), and so on ?

Basically. You could choose to interpret it differently (i.e., the reference as being the bottom right hand corner of the hex, and any values further east or south by even 1 minute would be in another hex), and still get good results. You might actually find that easier to do.

[m5000]

Basically. You could choose to interpret it differently (i.e., the reference as being the bottom right hand corner of the hex...

you mean this? -

[m5000]

...and any values further east or south by even 1 minute would be in another hex), and still get good results. You might actually find that easier to do.

hmmm, frankly speaking i'm terrible at map reading, let's take this reference point generated by the program - (56.9775, 15.0042), i'm asssuming that 56 and 15 are degrees, and where are minutes here? i mean, how would this reference point change if i wanted to add 1 minute the way you said to see what was in other hexes



i noticed that some other atlas programs have coordinates in a different format e.g. 52˚ 23' 35,74'' - here 23' refers to the number of minutes i think, and 35,74'' signifies the number of seconds, but what about e.g 56.9775

how to convert these two formats?

[m5000]

...i noticed that some other atlas programs have coordinates in a different format e.g. 52˚ 23' 35,74'' - here 23' refers to the number of minutes i think, and 35,74'' signifies the number of seconds, but what about e.g 56.9775

how to convert these two formats?


actually, i've found how to :), so here it is in case someone reading this thread didn't know:

1. the whole units of degrees will remain the same (i.e. in 121.135° longitude, start with 121°).
2. multiply the decimal by 60 (i.e. .135 * 60 = 8.1).
3. the whole number becomes the minutes (8').
4. take the remaining decimal and multiply by 60. (i.e. .1 * 60 = 6).
5. the resulting number becomes the seconds (6"). Seconds can remain as a decimal.
6. take your three sets of numbers and put them together, using the symbols for degrees (°), minutes ('), and seconds (") (i.e. 121°8'6" longitude)

[Ben Turner]

hmmm, frankly speaking i'm terrible at map reading, let's take this reference point generated by the program - (56.9775, 15.0042), i'm asssuming that 56 and 15 are degrees, and where are minutes here? i mean, how would this reference point change if i wanted to add 1 minute the way you said to see what was in other hexes

Well, the numbers are actually decimals. You seem to have figured it out.

On your other question, it helps if you think of the hexgrid as an offset square grid (the only difference between the two is graphical);

http://www.replicore.co.nz/images/Brick.gif

The TOAW grid is turned through 90 degrees, but you get the idea. Each square is adjacent to six others- north, south, northeast, northwest, southeast and southwest.

[Bob Cross]

1. it's about the latlong program

you write that the program gives latlong values for each hex, i'm trying to make sense of all these numbers... - do the latlong coordinates generated by your program indicate central points of each hex?

Pardon my short absence.

Yes, that would be the simplest convention. But it's up to you - just be consistent.

Actually, it's not really necessary to be quite so particular. Usually, you'll be trying to place features that won't fit any hex exactly, and you'll just want to pick the one that's closest. Suppose you want to place Kaliningrad on your map. The above atlas gives its location as 54.714N, 20.508E. It's unlikely that any hex will have those coordinates exactly. You'll have to pick the one that's closest, and often it will involve choosing whether to best match the latitude or the longitude value. So there's a bit of art to the process. It's only after hundreds of features have been placed as close as you can to their true locations that the overall effect becomes impressive.

2. also, the New Millenium World Atlas that you mention has a 'Locator Map' option which can be 'Globe' or 'Wall Map' - does the choice here make any difference as far as coordinates are concerned? in fact, there is also "Hide' - which option should be used for best accuracy?

That has nothing to do with anything. It's like the micromap in TOAW - just for quick jumping around the globe. I don't even use it, prefering to scroll the main map once I'm near the proper place.

And latitude and longitude coordinates are not map specific -they're actual Earth features. That's one of the advantages of this technique - every map has this same coordinate grid, so multiple maps from multiple sources and media can be accurately employed in your design.

[Bob Cross]

so, e.g. the central pooint of hex 1 is (56.9775, 15.0042), the central point of another hex i (56.9550, 15.0908), and so on ?

Actually, the first would be hex [0,0], and the second would be hex [1,1]. Note the numbers on the side and top labels. Those coordinates correspond to the TOAW map coordinates.

[Bob Cross]

hmmm, frankly speaking i'm terrible at map reading, let's take this reference point generated by the program - (56.9775, 15.0042), i'm asssuming that 56 and 15 are degrees, and where are minutes here? i mean, how would this reference point change if i wanted to add 1 minute the way you said to see what was in other hexes



i noticed that some other atlas programs have coordinates in a different format e.g. 52˚ 23' 35,74'' - here 23' refers to the number of minutes i think, and 35,74'' signifies the number of seconds, but what about e.g 56.9775

how to convert these two formats?

Most calculators, including the one that comes with Windows, can convert between dms and decimal formats. Probably the atlas programs can too. But, if you have a paper map, you'll have to convert manually. That's why I prefer digital atlases.

But, as a tool, I once designed a conversion program for Excel - it's attached.

[Ben Turner]

Actually, it's not really necessary to be quite so particular. Usually, you'll be trying to place features that won't fit any hex exactly, and you'll just want to pick the one that's closest. Suppose you want to place Kaliningrad on your map. The above atlas gives its location as 54.714N, 20.508E. It's unlikely that any hex will have those coordinates exactly. You'll have to pick the one that's closest, and often it will involve choosing whether to best match the latitude or the longitude value. So there's a bit of art to the process. It's only after hundreds of features have been placed as close as you can to their true locations that the overall effect becomes impressive.

Quite. In fact, being not entirely sure of the best hex is sometimes a bonus as it allows you to fudge things to make them look more realistic.