OP1 Battle: Aspertsham

[Double Deuce]

ACTIVE COMMANDER: Rompa
LOCATION: Vicinity Aspertsham
RETREAT DIRECTION: West
PBEM SLOT: 003
PASSWORD: wazzup

Attached is a zip of the actual map to be used.

Your opponent is: Vas Fury

Please coordinate contact through the SZO forum to get the game started.

HEX JJ6

.........2 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x10 Mech Section
............x10 BMP-2
............x1 SA-7 SAM
.........4 Co/4 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x10 T-64B
.........4 Co/2 Eng Bn/2nd MR Div
............x9 DZM
----------------------------------------------------------------
HEX II6

......3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
.........x1 Mech Section
.........x1 BMP-2
.........1 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x10 Mech Section
............x10 BMP-2
............x1 SA-7 SAM
.........4 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x1 Mech Section
............x9 BMP-2
............x1 2-120mm Mortars
............x6 SA-7 SAM
............x2 UAZ-66
............x6 7.62mm PKMS MMG
............x6 30mm AGS-17 GL
............x6 UAZ Jeep
.........3 Co/4 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x10 T-64B
.........3 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x10 Mech Section
............x10 BMP-2
............x1 SA-7 SAM
----------------------------------------------------------------
HEX II7

......4 Co/5 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
.........x9 Scout Team
.........x12 BRDM-2
.........x3 SA-7 SAM
----------------------------------------------------------------
ADDED SUPPORT (OFF-BOARD)

...1 Sqdn/16th AA (-)
......x4 MiG-23
Package 3
23mm GSh-23L (1) 4 shots
Kh-23 Kerry (2)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)
4x 57mm S-5 (4) ......x2 Su-17
Package 2
30mm NR-30 (2) 5 shots
Kh-25 Karen (2)
4x 57mm S-5 (8)
4x 57mm S-5 (8) ...1 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x4 Mi-24 Hind D (# 366)
...2 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x4 Mi-24 Hind D (# 366)

......5 Art Bn/2nd DAG/2nd MR Div
.........x18 2S1 Gvozdika

----------------------------------------------------------------
Briefing:

[Double Deuce]

I shifted these units around to the West so that they are more aligned with their the Home Edge. They do not match exactly the COCAT/Hex locations!

All Arty and Helo's are delayed arrival until Turn 2 so no side can pre-target possible deploy areas.

[Double Deuce]

See 1st post.

I believe that the missing unit has been identified

HEX II7

......4 Co/5 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
.........x9 Scout Team
.........x12 BRDM-2
.........x3 SA-7 SAM

It has been added to the Pbem file.

[Double Deuce]

The actual Pbem File has been uploaded to the 1st post in this thread. Please make contact with your opponent if you haven't already done so. You can do this via PM, email or posting in the open part of the forums.

REMEMBER: The Battle is to only go 24 Turns for FOW reasons. Once your opponent has completed Turn 24 HE will send me the file.

[Rompa]

Are these the actual PBEM file that we are going to start playing with now?
arent we going to deploy units ourself, or do we go with what you have placed on map for us here DD?

[Double Deuce]

Are these the actual PBEM file that we are going to start playing with now?
arent we going to deploy units ourself, or do we go with what you have placed on map for us here DD?You have to go with where I deployed them. That is why the WP team is going 1st to geta 1/2 turn to spread out/maneuver.

Because we are using custom OOB's I have to place the units in WinSPMBT based on where the units are located in COCAT on the operational map. I try to shift units around so they are not in sight of each other at start and where they have access to their Hme edge for retreat purposes.

That is one of the reasons I restrict Off-Board Artillery until Turn 2 so that no one side can bomb another's probable start locations until they have had a chance to spread out and or reposition.

[Rompa]

Turn 1:Units are moving to the forest edges generally, scouts in the SW are trying to make sightings of enemy in the SE.
Mech units have dissmanteled and are moving in on foot to the town of Aspertsham.
Eng tanks are beeing prep to retreat of map.

[Rompa]

at start of turn 2 a LEO killed 1 BMP-2, and 2 M113A are seen moving E in the forest NE of Town Aspertsham along with that LEO.

I moved 2 Hinds to my units up N but a Blowpipe located on the big hill in the Center of map (hex 50,63) fired twice, 1 Hind took 2 dam. points and will prob retreat next turn.

2 M113A are spotted,1 in the center of Aspertsham city and 1 in the forest SE of it.

I lost 1 BRDM-2 with a scout unit to stupid misstake by me, I was going to set the firing range on the BRDM unit and I was typing in 10 and when I hit enter the fricking unit races across half the map and gets assaulet by a M113A that it drives on to :mad: :mad:

I dont know really what happend but thats it I lost control and they died.

BTW can we uppload the some of the turns here for teammates to review the ongoing battle or isnt it allowed?

[Vesku]

I lost 1 BRDM-2 with a scout unit to stupid misstake by me, I was going to set the firing range on the BRDM unit and I was typing in 10 and when I hit enter the fricking unit races across half the map and gets assaulet by a M113A that it drives on to :mad: :mad:

A typical mistake for a waw player, I've done it a number of times. Setting range in MBT closes the window when you press the number, hitting enter will move your chosen unit to the hex your cursor is at the moment.

[Double Deuce]

BTW can we uppload the some of the turns here for teammates to review the ongoing battle or isnt it allowed?I'd rather you not. Please try to use screenshots if you can and get feedback that way.
Screenshots will also come in handy when I start creating news reports and once this is done and visitors come by to see what went on.

[Rompa]

That LEO in Center woods are being a big pain in the A**, it killed one more BMP-2 from me, the Konkurs missiles are not doing any damadge to it, maybe it can be many LEO´s because it dont appear on the exact same spot turn after turn.

1 Hind SW of Aspertsham had 2 M113A APV´s move right up to it (5hex away) and it was hit (16dmg) and is destroyed :(

I will sit tight now as it seams he are moving forward on big scale here.

And some 155mm cluster arty rained down on my lines now, causing no damadge for now.

1 flight of a MIG is called in on LEO´s last sighting pos.

[Rompa]

This is turning bad. I can only spot a couple of M113A and 1 LEO in the town.

It is raining 155 Cluster bombs all over my troops. it killed 3 more BMP-2 ´s and some Mech inf.

Something took out 1 T-64 for me (it didnt say what was firing it..???) only improved TOW fired.

[Stonefire]

Hi Rompa

it seems you are facing much heavy resistance than I did.

Regards

Stonefire

[Rompa]

This is ridiculus, (I can imagine my oppononent chuckle behind his desk...)

NATO 155mm Cluster Arty killed 6 T64´s hiding in a forest, I cant spot his units and he is causing havoc on me with overvelming Artillery fire.

A Hind killed a M150 in Asperstham and some Inf. units along with M113A also spotted there.

I have some trouble remembering were he is targeting his arty salvos betwen turns (turns returnes with 3-4 days intervall) so its diff to retreat the units that are being targeted.

[Cameronius]

Rompa,
Sometimes I write myself a note or two and post them on my monitor to remember the details of some games.

I would be suspicious that your opponent is getting intel on you from a hidden observer. Watch the replays with care 2-3 times over. Check out the lines of sight from where your T-64s were. See if you can figure out how he knew they were there. 99/100 times a successfull arty strike like this is not luck.

Cam

[Rompa]

Just a update, We are having some trouble continuing the fight.
My opp cant retrive the zip from hes mail, I ve tryied sending it several times to his different mails,I dont know what to do now.
I havent heard anything now for several days, lets hope we soon can get back on it.

[Double Deuce]

He can't download it or he can't the downloaded files to load? What turn are you on. If necessary, I can have them provide a replacement player to take up the game from this point on.

[Stonefire]

Hi Rompa
I think it must be his spam filter, at the present many of the zip files I receive, ends up in my internet providers spam filter.
I have to go into my webmail, and manually transfer the mail from the "spam" folder til the inbox, to get it via my outlook.
It could be that your opponent has to do the same thing

[Rompa]

He provided me with a new mail adress (a non webmail) and he now have the files, we will soon be on the road again.

[Rompa]

Finally we are up and going again.

My Hinds spoted several APC´s (M113A) in and South of Aspertsham, I killed 1 M113A1 and also spotted a LEO along with them in the forest, 1 missile in side put that LEO out for good.
A 8inc mortar are setting up behind the forward APC´s, and the Canadian HQ have been spotted in the city square.

One Hind attracted some fire from the blowpipe on the big hill in the C of map and later it retreated of map to do some repairs.

Once again I managed to send a BMP2 to its death because of my stupidity ( or lack of finger control) (or not used to this game) I (left) clicked in the map to scroll to that location, and to my horror a see the BMP2 rushing along the road in to the town of Aspertsham and getting assaulted by Canadian Mech Inf. :surprise: , :eek: , :OHNO: .......


And a note to other commanders if you dont have a FO on map be VERY cearfull using aircrafts, my Mig have fired at my own troops both runns it have made killing a Eng. tank. the last time.

BTW how do you make screenshots from WinSPMBT?

[Vesku]

I use a free Hypersnap4 for screenshots, open the snapper before starting to play and when I want a picture I press ctrl+shift+f.

[Rompa]

I smell something Fishy here, either this game is awfally wrong or my opponent is exeptionally good.
He managed to shot down the both last 2 Hind´s with M113A 50cal AAMG gun from 1300m range and hit chanses of 4%...

I will play the turn later when I have callmed down, I feel like I want to quit now.

[Double Deuce]

I smell something Fishy here, either this game is awfally wrong or my opponent is exeptionally good.
He managed to shot down the both last 2 Hind´s with M113A 50cal AAMG gun from 1300m range and hit chanses of 4%...

I will play the turn later when I have callmed down, I feel like I want to quit now.Please copy me on the files when you send them back if you would. Do this for each of the next couple of turns. Also, can you send me any copies of old turns if you still have the zips.

[azog_]

Been a little busy, and will be a couple more days, but then I can start playing the rest of the battle. I already got the file, I get it going as soon as I have the time, at least by wednesday I believe.

[Double Deuce]

Been a little busy, and will be a couple more days, but then I can start playing the rest of the battle. I already got the file, I get it going as soon as I have the time, at least by wednesday I believe.Sounds good. Make sure you can access the file, know where to send it and understand what the mission, etc is. ;)

[azog_]

Allright, ready to go now.

A messenger arrives at the regimental HQ from the direction of Aspersham to confirm and explain the radio reports received already during the battle. The Canadian forces have inflicted heavy casualties, several tanks and BMPs destroyed. Most recently a Leo (JJ6) shot 2 BMPs on the open (JJ5) and all Hinds have retreated off the map or destroyed. Many company commanders wounded or killed and just now the battallion commander of the 3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div had fallen by an artillery shell striking nearby leaving the forces without a commander in a alarming situation.

Regiment sends a new officer from the regimental staff to take command of the forces near of Aspertsham and finish the battle with loss-taken forces. He has pretty challenging task, because he knows the battle only through reports and not actually been there to see what has happened and where. But this is Red Army, no options than to do the best possible, preferably more.


Because this is new to me, i have to think this through well, so I attached a situation pic I made with Cocat. Red forces are ours of course, and blue symbols the canadians, (not symbols accurate, for example the northern mortar is a M125). Basically both sides are positioned in the woods, and open clear field in the between.

I played the first turn and send it to Vas, but the situation didn't change much, no losses to either side on my moves. I planned to move with the infantry on south of the II7 deeper into town. Also moved a platoon of tanks from II6 behind hill 469, to gradally move south to support. Some other minor moves, and ordered two airstrikes with Kerrys to Leo in the town.

We shortly discussed with mr.clark, that Nato should probably have 2 or 3 more cluster artillery shots left, that must be remembered.

To what I'd like to have an answer is that what should I do ? Continue to advance to town, or retreat ? I think if Nato would try to advance it would be hard for them, because the open ground. Only covered direction for me to enter the town is from the west. The hills in the east are a question mark.

Please share some thoughts how should I proceed =)

[azog_]

Vas that mailed me that he will be travelling, and can send the next turn probably on Monday or Tuesday, so until then time to figure out what should I do.

[Vesku]

II7, II8 and JJ7 are objective areas of which you have two under control making it five out of six in our hands. Dig in, NATO is forced to attack in the current situation. Try to find ambush positions for your units.

[jadpanther]

Azog,

I agree with Vesku, anyway he is in overall command of your units. Find the best possible defensive positions and dig in. At least that's what I would do. We have not heard from From our overall force commander though. Go with Vesku's decision until you get diferent orders.

Comrade Jad

[mr_clark]

AS I mentioned in our discussion I think digging in is not the best overall option.
I would at least try to keep up some pressure on the enemy with mobile forces (armor?!?) to interfere with his assault plan.
This will also give you time to move your covering forces into good positions and 'sit it out'...

[Vesku]

7th MRR has orders to move into position and setup a defensive line, no need to keep the pressure on. 7th is going to take the the main assault and die fighting to give the rest of the division a chance to beat the enemy in a counter attack. And it looks that Battlegroup Azog is a very likely target for the thrust so save your men and prepare to fight a defensive battle on the next OP.

[Vesku]

AS I mentioned in our discussion I think digging in is not the best overall option.


BTW which discussion you are referring to?

[mr_clark]

The discussion on MSN I had with Azog.
I haven't thought about that you don't know about it... So just ignore the starting paragraph.

[Cameronius]

Hello Comrades,
Sorry for my absence. I have had to kick my old P.O.S. computer to the curb and purchase a lovely new machine with a 21 inch flat panel monitor:hurray:
IT ROCKS!
Now that I am no longer technologically handicapped I will check in more often.
Azog,
I agree with Vesku's appraisal of the situation and his instructions.
Find the best defensive positions you can and wait out your 24 turns.
The COCAT attachment was excellent! Keep asking questions and dig in.

Cam

[azog_]

Allright, I hold the ground what's under our troops' control. Will try to find optimate positions for defensive los, and dig in. Going to reinforce troops in the forest west from Aspertsham with support weapons and a T64 platoon, gradually moving them from north to south in cover.

No big differences to COCAT pic from the previous turn. During enemy's turn (what I saw from the replay) he fired from woods in JJ6 at a mech squad on the clear (survivors retreating from the bmp2 destroyed previously) which got some casualties but survived for now. Second firing was in the town, our most furthest mech squad behind a building was spotted and a m113 fired at it making couple casualties - seemed to be hit & run thing. Thirdly south in the woods canadian rifle squad suprised our scouts and fired inflicting 2 casualties and the scouts retreated west.

On my own turn, carefully studying the map and the situation, found couple opportunities. I evaluated Leo's los (the one visible at the town), and thought that I could get to fire at it with T64s from north. I slowly moved with 2 T64s, and got a visual on it without enemy fire, and I fired. First T64's rounds missed, but it got the Leo's attention - one or two Leos 105mm round hit the T64, but the front armor on that long range luckily was enough to stop it. The second T64 retaliated and succeeded hitting and destroying the Leo. Soviet tanks drove back deeper in the woods.

Hill 469 seems to be a good place to spot enemy units. MGs spotted and BMP moved up on the hill and fired at M125 far on the road JJ6. A few hits, but no penetrations, 30mm seems to lack the punch in long distances. For another BMP2 on the hill, a M113 had apperead in the los, low odds but no reason why not to fire, cannon missed, but luckily Konkurs-missile hit and destroyed the target already at the first firing.

I worry for the recon company in the southwest, it's seems that enemy would advance west with infantry on foot. Spread Scouts and BRDMs may have troubles stopping them, I try to back down and gather them up a bit deeper in the middle of the forest.

After finishing my turn, enemy's cluster artillery hit in the south woods a few hexes ahead of couple recon units, no damages. He's gradually spending aces from his sleeve.

[azog_]

Pretty quiet.

A Mig23 launched a Kerry and destroyed a M113 in NW of hex JJ7. Hoped that there could've been another Leo luring, but no.. but not a miss anyways.

Mig spotted couple new pretty fast moving M113s on small hills in JJ8.

Canadian scouts spotted running towards our mech infantry north on the road JJ6, didn't open fire yet.

Continued moving support weapons and T64 platoon south behind hill 469.

Hey, could I retreat with the DZM engineer tanks off the map or should I just keep them in the cover ? They're far in the north west still like the previous COCAT map shows.

[Vesku]

It is probably safer to retreat them so go ahead.

[azog_]

Retreated the DZMs.

In JJ6 the enemy scouts came even closer, I moved two mech squads towards them to the edge of the forest and destroyed the unit, although .50 hmg fired on the mech squads from south.

In the town enemy did the hit & run thing again with a m113 on the same mech squad, some casualties, threw smoke with an another squad to cover the survivors. M125 mortar shells fell on the same area.

At KK6 a single BMP drives on south to recon the hills at the east. So far nothing.

[azog_]

Enemy .50 MG fire from JJ6 to mech squad and to some ancient crew survivor. Mainly suppression effect.

A sam unit and mech squad with the recon BMP2 at KK6 spotted a Lynx on the east outskirts of the town at JJ7.

In II8 enemy infantry advancing fast on foot west towards the Recon Company. Pinned a squad down with BRDMs inflicting couple casualties. 3 BMP2s moving through the forest to support, further back the T64s also on the move. Directed more artillery fire on the area.

Enemy cluster artillery hit the spot from where I shot on the Leopard. I suspected that and had moven the T64s further back, but one BMP got hit and destroyed. But anyway hopefully not much more cluster ammo left.

Enemy mortar fire dropped on the town and to our mortar squads behind hill 469 but no direct hits nor casualties.

[Cameronius]

Azog,
You are doing a great job in a tough situation. Keep up the good work.

Cam:thumup:

[azog_]

It's raining heavy artillery fire from both sides.

Enemy fired cluster artillery on 3 spots, one was a complete miss in sw II7 - no our troops nearby. Second cluster hit II6 as last turn, pretty near but no casualties luckily. Third cluster hit in forest edge of JJ6 and one BMP2 got destroyed. Not nice, immediately when he's spotted something, there will be cluster artillery coming in the next turns.

Enemy mortar fire did some damagetoo - on town couple mech squads took 1 casualty, and our 120 mm mortar positions got shells, UAZ66 truck destroyed and most likely 1 casualty on the other mortar.

Nothing else really. Recon company isn't so alone any more, platoon of BMPs supporting them and 2 T64s will join them next turn and the third turn after that.

[Cameronius]

Azog,
Are the cluster bombardment coming from off-map units? If so than he should run out of ammo soon. Just keep moving around or hiding.

Cam

[azog_]

Enemy advanced in the woods II8. The replay showed a Leo coming closer within a narrow LOS of a BMP2 from about 5-6 hexes range, and BMP2 fired. Just poor bad luck, Konkurs had a hit chance of 68% but missed. The Leo took one shot and BMP2 was killed, and the Leo withdrew.

A SA-7 of the reconing units in KK6 spotted a M125 at southern part of the woods of JJ6. Smoke trails there too, so probably more of them in the same area.

Dispersed more vehicles and still drove the T64s south in II8. Those should make the Leo to behave.

After my turn again cluster artillery dropped on the edge of the forest in JJ6. No vehicle losses, probably a couple of infantry casualties.. As a new thing (at least during the turn I've played) 8in artillery fell on the center of forest in II6.. Much of stuff there, if it had been cluster hit, it would've done a lot of damage.

Artillery is off-map, the cluster artillery I think is always "155mm section". So I think those are presenting M109s and the 8in Artillery is the one American battery of M110s. So I'd say they have a whole artillery battalion supporting in this section. But their forces in general don't seem so large as from what I've so far seen, 1 mech company or 2 at most , with some Leos, M150s and scouts. Or just more hiding far in the back somewhere

[mr_clark]

So a short batallion of troops and and arty batallion.
That surely doesn't look good.

[Cameronius]

His clusters should ease up soon as he runs out of ammo, bc he has been using them freely for the whole game.

[Vesku]

Idea is not to leave any vehicles in LOS from areas not in your control, I lost two immediately after leaving them on hill tops.

[azog_]

Idea is not to leave any vehicles in LOS from areas not in your control, I lost two immediately after leaving them on hill tops.

In this case, much of open ground and only a few spots of forest or other cover, it's probably pretty easy for the enemy to determine where my troops are. If nothing's visible, then it must be there where cannot be seen, and the enemy spots the artillery there for a try, and if somethings get destroyed more will be coming.

I studied the OP1 official movement orders, and found out that there should be couple East German units on the same battle map we are playing! Or have I missed something totally ?

The units are:
HEX KK7

...2 Rec Co/9 Rec Bn/9th Tk Div
......x9 SPW-40P
......x8 RPG-7 Team
......x3 Infantry Squad
......x3 SPZ BMP-1P
......x3 BTR-60PB
......x4 Malutka Team
......x2 7.62mm PKM MMGs
......x3 Strela-2 Team (Hun)
......x1 Art Observer (Sov)
......x1 PRP-2 (Sov)

HEX KK6

......1 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........1 Co/1 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
............x10 Infantry Squad
............x10 SPZ BMP-1P
............x1 Strela Team
.........4 Co/1 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
............x6 SPZ BMP-1P
............x2 12.7mm NSV MMGs
............x4 7.62mm PKM MMGs
............x3 Strela Team
.........3 Co/1 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
............x10 Infantry Squad
............x10 BTR-60PB

I just came to think this, because I've wondered that the map we are playing is so large.. Just didn't realize this sooner.. The big hilly area on the east in the battle map is excactly hexes KK6 and KK7, where I am reconing with a single BMP2. But it seems actually there's should already be at least GDR Rec Co.. Apologies if I've run over any scouts hiding in the bushes with the BMP.... =)

But basically the battle map is too large, shouldn't include KK hex column at all. Or then those GDR units should be on the battle ? Well doesn't make a really difference, GDR units' orders are just to dug in, but couldn't they at least observe? That's what recon co shoud do, right?

What do you say about this ? I'm sorry if I've completely misunderstood something =) In that case forget this.

[Vesku]

Much of this is up to DD, he may tell you that those East Germans are not as good at reading map as you are :)

[Double Deuce]

I studied the OP1 official movement orders, and found out that there should be couple East German units on the same battle map we are playing! Or have I missed something totally ? It depends where in the map hex they are. Even if I crop the map to include the whole hex or very close to it I may leave some units out if they were placed or moved to near a hex edge. I will usually crop in more of the map then I should sometimes to allow you more manuever room along the map edge. This is mainly because of the way units can only retreat/exit off the right or left edge and not the top/bottom edges.

[azog_]

Guess what; cluster artillery. Hits on the woody road II7 - a BMP2 kabum =/, south part of II6 - nothing much, forest edge FF6 - suppression and woods in II8 - several casualties on the mech squad.

I'd say we'd need a huge ray gun to take care of those damned M109s.

Just dispersed vehicles again and changed positions esc. A Mig should launch it's last kerry next turn. After that 2 Migs have used their Kerries and have rockets left.. 2 Migs and 2 Su17s still available with full ammo. Perhaps better to spare their ammo? And I think not much good can be done with the HE rockets - probably blowpipes luring there anyways, not worth the risk.

[azog_]

It depends where in the map hex they are. Even if I crop the map to include the whole hex or very close to it I may leave some units out if they were placed or moved to near a hex edge. I will usually crop in more of the map then I should sometimes to allow you more manuever room along the map edge. This is mainly because of the way units can only retreat/exit off the right or left edge and not the top/bottom edges.

Oh yes, I understand that. Just seems funny to drive a unit there to see around thoug in "reality" there's lot's of friendly troops already in the same spot watching around :D Hmm there could be used couple of units without weapons and movement just to observate?

But hmm what's the case if enemy would try to outflank with heavy force through such a in reality occupied manouver-room-area, and could get behind the lines by so in a single battle.. But in reality the friendly forces would be there to defend the flank.. At this map at least the large hilly area could make that happend..... Just wondering, that's all =)

[Vesku]

A Mig should launch it's last kerry next turn. After that 2 Migs have used their Kerries and have rockets left.. 2 Migs and 2 Su17s still available with full ammo. Perhaps better to spare their ammo? And I think not much good can be done with the HE rockets - probably blowpipes luring there anyways, not worth the risk.

Use the kerries and send them in with rockets if you need, there is only three Blowpipes and if they have been dealing with your hinds they are probably out of ammo.

[Vesku]

Oh yes, I understand that. Just seems funny to drive a unit there to see around thoug in "reality" there's lot's of friendly troops already in the same spot watching around :D Hmm there could be used couple of units without weapons and movement just to observate?

But hmm what's the case if enemy would try to outflank with heavy force through such a in reality occupied manouver-room-area, and could get behind the lines by so in a single battle.. But in reality the friendly forces would be there to defend the flank.. At this map at least the large hilly area could make that happend..... Just wondering, that's all =)

In reality OP1 is one big battle but now it's badly cut into pieces because of east-west retreat. There is many things unavailable like the fact that Stonefire could have moved into your enemy's back after breaking his enemy quickly or that NATO could have reinforced his troops etc. An hour is a long time to fight with fixed forces.

[Double Deuce]

In reality OP1 is one big battle but now it's badly cut into pieces because of east-west retreat. There is many things unavailable like the fact that Stonefire could have moved into your enemy's back after breaking his enemy quickly or that NATO could have reinforced his troops etc. An hour is a long time to fight with fixed forces.Vesku is correct.

I had set the campaign up without taking into account the East-West retreat issue so I have been forces to abstract and limit some normally allowable actions. If I would have added Stonefire's forces and he took casualties they would retreat into the enemy guns. SPWAW is more flexible is some things than WinSP in many respects and those are the things I failed to account for.

Doing it the way I am, to me, is the lesser of the 2 evils. :nervous:

EDIT: The Human vs AI Campaign system I am working on is way to speed things up AND include more players in the actions. Players like Stonefire, Rompa and many others have been involved in these campaigns for a long time yet I haven't been able to bring them into the action because of the way I have set things up.

I need to change that even if I have to sacrifice in other areas of how these things work.

[Vesku]

I'm going to suggest that we send reconing platoons all along the front next OP so we can have more players involved, sorry for the work DD :)

[mr_clark]

Yes a massive recon operation would be also good for our units, but then again it also makes it easier for massed enemy formations to kill our recon screen what would be a real downer for us...

[azog_]

Vasfury said he is traveling until 28th, so some delay to the battle...

[Vesku]

Yes a massive recon operation would be also good for our units, but then again it also makes it easier for massed enemy formations to kill our recon screen what would be a real downer for us...

I'd rather sacrifice a platoon and know where the massed enemy is than let it hit the MLR without warning. Information is more valuable than few men or vehicles, we need to know what is happening to plan our actions accordingly.

[Cameronius]

Vesku,
I agree and will set up the next operational turn accordingly. Judging from the game play so far the overall Campaign will be decided more by the skill of the individual commanders within the tactical battles rather than at the operational level. If we have good tactical results it won't matter much if we make a few mistakes operationally.

[mr_clark]

But we must keep in mind that if we don't manage to keep our recon units alive we are blind to enemy movement.
If we preoceed as planned we must give strong mark that our recon units just observe and avoid combat contacts.
I don't think the unit's as they are pack enough punch for even minor battles.

[Vesku]

But we must keep in mind that if we don't manage to keep our recon units alive we are blind to enemy movement.
If we preoceed as planned we must give strong mark that our recon units just observe and avoid combat contacts.
I don't think the unit's as they are pack enough punch for even minor battles.

The problem is that there is no recon in front of Hungarian and East German units at the moment. That's what I'm hoping we can change by sending a platoon forward from both units.

[Cameronius]

There is recon in front of the Hungarian but not in front of the E German.

[Vesku]

A platoon per hexrow is the only way to make the screen perfect.

[azog_]

During enemy's turn Canadian infantry advanced at II8 and killed the last survivor of a scout team. Our Mig fired a Kerry against a Leo in the forest near the road in JJ6, but no effect.

Prepared a defensive line in the middle of the forest in II8. After my turn enemy cluster artillery hit the roads in south-II6, couple MGs there but no whole unit losses. Planned 2x Mig23s to strike with Kerries at the Leo in JJ6.

[azog_]

A Leo was seen on the road at JJ6. T64B took two shots at it with odds of 43% and 68% but no hit - this luck sucks. In II8 instead of infantry another Leo advanced and BRDM-2 got destroyed, Leo withdraw back east and disappeared.

A M113 was spotted at the center of the town, BMP-2 drove to a firing position and destroyed the target with a few rounds. At II8 used BRDMs to suppress enemy infantry. Cluster-evasion actions and T64s placed to hopefully slay some Leos.

Mortar fire on western outskirts of the town and forest edge in JJ6. Cluster artillery fell on the buildings and road at II7, no losses.

[azog_]

Vasfury said he'll send the next turn to me on Monday. 4 more to go..

[azog_]

During enemy's turn an ambushing T64B spotted a M113, fired and missed, then came the Leo and the T64 fired again with a good odds but no - the Leo fires and of course hits the side armour from a narrow angle and destroyes the T64B. Nato again has Ms.Fortuna on their side. Also Mig23 got hit, somehow it didn't fire Kerries but flew on the map and probably 2 Blowpipes fired against it. But a Blowpipe is now again visible on the hill KK7, and the recon BMP2 is after my turn very near to it.

On my turn I fought back on wide front. Enemy infantry was spotted and fired at JJ7 with several BRDMs and others, and the .50 HMG in the town - some Nato casualties. Two remaining T64Bs in the II8 advanced to retaliate and succeeded destroying the enemy Leo.

After my turn heavy enemy artillery and mortar fire all around. Cluster hit II8 and the woody hill at II7, where a BMP2 got destroyed. ¤#"$£@&! those M109s.

[jadpanther]

Have Faith Azog it sounds like your giving him a good fight.

Jad

[azog_]

Well yeah, it seems that my forces have clear superiority in numbers, but the damned cluster artillery and the threat of hidden M150s prevents to clear the area with the mass.

Any chance to deploy the RPG teams carried by the Hinds to ambush those lousy M109s?

Btw I'm travelling on Wed to London (no time to spy Vasfury unfortunately =), back until Sunday.

[Vesku]

Any idea when you are going to finish this?

DD, can't you put some sort of time limit to battles? It's ridiculous that a dozen players have to suffer for months because one player is so slow that I've never seen such before.

[jadpanther]

Which side is dragging their feet?

Jad

[Vesku]

NATO ofcourse, it's this dude who got Rompa to quit already and I'm getting quite fed up with this too.

[Double Deuce]

DD, can't you put some sort of time limit to battles? It's ridiculous that a dozen players have to suffer for months because one player is so slow that I've never seen such before.There are 3-4 turns left so lets finish this battle with the current players. Once it ends we can prep for OP2 and I'll lay out hard rules for future rounds with set time tables. You guys thinks 45 days is enough time for a 24 turn Pbem, give or take a few days? I believe that there are some NATO players (fairly new) that would be more than happy to jump in.

He's slowing down my WinSPWW2 Tourney as well, actually both him and short are and who just happen to be playing each other in the 1st round. :nervous:

[azog_]

Actually most recent delay is due to me, cos I was travelling.. I've the turn, will play it later this evening.. But before that many times waited the Nato turn for several days

[azog_]

During enemy turn's, the Nato again had tremendously good luck... Infantry squad destroyed our BRDM2 at II8 with a Law 2-3 hexes away with a hit chance of 11%. Also a Leo spotted on the open at JJ6, BMP2 from II6 fired a Konkurs but no effect, but then the Leo fired at it and destroyed the BMP2 with a 9 % chance.. The probability maths seems to go on by Nato rules....

On my turn I suppressed enemy infantry on several directions. Advanced and spread my forces slowly towards the enemy widely. Immobilised a M125 at JJ6 by a long shot from a BMP2. The reconing BMP2 at the east threw lead at the Blowpipe on the hill, 1 casualty, will most likely have it eliminated next turn - should come as quite surprise to Vas hopefully.

But the best thing was that I had a visual on M150 at JJ6. I tried to find a firing spot from distance at II6, M150 fired and hit the T64B but fortunately it was just a minor hit. Then I moved a BMP2 to the forest edge at JJ6, knew that lower hit chance on the second round and the Tow missed. BMP2 killed the M150, every catch of those is valuable.

Cluster artillery fell on the center of town and forest near the hill at II7, making suppression. Also close hits from 8 in.

[Vesku]

Slow play and always hitting with low percentage, ringing any bells?

[mr_clark]

Well, persoanlly I have made the experiance that Western UNits indeed seem to hit better at lower percentages then their Eastern counterparts.
The question is what else this guy is doing in his life, when he can't manage a turn a week. (When even I could realise a turn around phase of max three days even if I am at the uni...)

[Vesku]

He shouldn't commit himself in a CC if he can't do more than a turn a week. I'm playing around 40 PBEM turns a week, no problem here.

[jadpanther]

I agree with my Comrades........He should be encouraged(I have no ojection to torture)to make his moves faster.........lol.

Jad

[azog_]

Feedback has worked, Vas sent his turn about 14 hours after mine.

Enemy's turn was again a bit irritating, their infantry took a BMP and a T64 !!! with laws from 3 hexes distance - the BMP hit was fair, a squad which I hadn't spotted got a nice chance, but the losing the T64 like that doesn't feel good (if I remember right ~20+ % hit chance and side turret hit). But well I got the M150 somewhat luckily last turn, that balances a bit.

At my move this went to a real battle - Soviet forces killed 2 infantry squads, .50 HMG and a M113 in the town and southwards. The recon BMP found the Blowpiped and smashed it to pieces and spotted another one too.

Heavy enemy artillery again - cluster everywhere, a UAZ jeep got destroyed. Very near that there could've been a half dozen vehicle losses. Horrifying to imagine if the Nato puts together for example many Abramses & other good stuff, and supports them with as many M109s they can, freaking hard to stop them.

[azog_]

A Leo took out a BMP2 at the center of the town. My bad, left it at too open. The Leo ran away. Things at the south seem to slowed down, I could advance 5-10 hexes without enemies and set better positions.

Good news is that the recon BMP2 killed the other Blowpipe team, our air boys should like that, planes coming next turn. Plenty of cluster & 8in artillery fell again, couple men casualties to infantry squads. Enemy made a big smoke screen at the southern part of the town with 81mms. In general I've gained some ground and the enemy shouldn't have any possibilities to move north or west. One more turn to go.

Does Vas send the files after turn 24 to DD? Hmm what prevents him from rushing all his forces forward and striking at everything he can without fear of losing vehichles at the open because I can't continue the next turn any more ? =)

[Vesku]

There shouldn't be any reorganization because you are firmly in contact and neither is retreating. You should continue from where you left but that is ofcourse up to DD.

[Double Deuce]

Does Vas send the files after turn 24 to DD? Hmm what prevents him from rushing all his forces forward and striking at everything he can without fear of losing vehichles at the open because I can't continue the next turn any more ? =)He should send the files to me and CC you. That way you can see the turn reply BUT not play the turn itself. If you don't get it please let me know and I'll provide you a copy for that purpose.

[Cameronius]

How in the Christ does a NATO battery have that much cluster ammo if it is Off-board?:icon_bs: :stirthepot:
I also am tired of waiting for the slow, lazy capitalist pigs.:toilet:

[azog_]

Enemy's turn: It happened what I'd suspected all the time - still one M150 was hiding somewhere northeast from the town, and fired a Tow with a hit chance of 32% through my smoke screen and destroyed the recon BMP on the top of the big hill. Well, got at least those Blowpipes with it before that.

And lost also a BRDM at the town, left it too open and the Leo can move fast in the town full of roads, smoke and buildings, always finds some position to shoot and accurately despite of the speed.

Our airboys hit a M113 with a cannon but no kill, killed a already immobilized M125 with a Kerry, and Su17 hit the town Leo with a Karen but no effect :mad:

My turn: Killed a Lynx with a BMP at the town. Couple casualties to the infantry squads mainly with BRDMs in the town and southwards. Tried to find good positions to hold on.

Soviet positions are now pretty excactly on the railroad line. Any armoured trains from the revolution era in the reserves? =)

Only 8in artillery fell down after my turn, and some smoke from M125s.

[mr_clark]

GUess our comrades in the Strategic Artillery Troops will dig deep into their depots to find some of their trains. And then it's a question how well they would count against modern armor.

[azog_]

The Leo in the town did again a bold hit & run, Soviet scout team hit it with a RPG, but no effect - of course... The Leo destroyed another BMP :angry: and a Lynx suppressed the scout team, some casualties but survived. A T64 from the north spotted a M113 on the road, 66% hit chance but -of course- missed.

Well anyhow there it was, so freaking many casualties against such a small force, not good. But the threat of M109s and hidden M150s made it tricky.

But now it's time for the OP2, let's roll on and squash those western bugs.

[mr_clark]

Yes! Let's not feel bad about that loss, let's work to make our next turn hit them hard!

[Double Deuce]

LOSSES - Confirmed

HEX TBD

.........2 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x2 Mech Section
............x6 BMP-2
.........4 Co/4 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x6 T-64B
.........4 Co/2 Eng Bn/2nd MR Div
............x1 DZM
----------------------------------------------------------------
HEX TBD

......3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
.........x1 Mech Section
.........x1 BMP-2
.........1 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x1 Mech Section
............x6 BMP-2
.........4 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x4 BMP-2
............x1 UAZ-66
............x6 7.62mm PKMS MMG
............x1 UAZ Jeep
.........3 Co/4 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x2 T-64B
.........3 Co/3 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
............x6 BMP-2
----------------------------------------------------------------
HEX TBD

......4 Co/5 Bn/7th MRR/2nd MR Div
.........x2 Scout Team
.........x4 BRDM-2
----------------------------------------------------------------
ADDED SUPPORT (OFF-BOARD)
...1 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x3 Mi-24 Hind D (# 366)

----------------------------------------------------------------
CURRENT UNIT LOCATIONS:

HEX TBD
Unit Name