Beer & Pretzels Barbarossa

[Martin Schenkel]

I'm in the preliminary stages of creating a simplistic, high playability version of the eastern front 41-45, based loosely on AH's Russian Front, and Gary Grigsby's War in Russia. Units will be Corps for the Axis, and Armies for Russia (although initial Russian defences will be Corps). TO&E will be simplyfied to 2-3 types of rifle squads, 2-3 types of AT guns, 1 type of artillery, and 5-10 types of tanks/SPGs on each side. Air power will be more abstract, and limited to ground attack only.

I'm currently sorting out the OOB, but would like some input as to what to include (or not include) in terms of gameplay, in order to keep the scenario simple and playable, yet realistic.

[ER_Chaser]

Sounds quite interesting. So playability is the major concern, right? Then forget about those history geeks .... :D ... The production bonus/penalties like EA design could add simple but fun factors to the scenario. Then just adjust the parameters so that it is most balanced. I will consider that makes a great game.

(arguments like when Panther entered service, which model or alike, should be ignored. Just stuff it with roughly correct equipments -- i.e., no M1A1 --- and stir the balance, that is it.)

Also, do not make both sides to have too many troops that they can cover everywhere. Make it trickier, only blocks and blocks. Then manuver will play the role --- instead of a 3 layer defense line over whole russia.

just my 2 c
:)

[Chuck?]

It sounds like a good idea. What is your time and map scale? This will cover four years right?

[Legun]

I could be very glad to cooperate with the project. I've done the scenario with similiar scale: http://media.miks.uj.edu.pl/~jflis/pasje/TOAW/fs.htm
The scenario was upgrading to modified ACOW some times ago, but the work isn't finished, as my home PC was stolen with some files. I've restored part of them.
It isn't exactly beer&pretzels, but I hope that it isn't monster game.

[Menschenfresser]

Damn! I think this is a great idea. If you need a playtester at some point, let me know.

What size and turn length are you shooting for? I think War in Russia was 20k per hex...I don't remember the turn length.

It would be nice to have some simple equipment transitions. T-34/76s -> T34/85s....etc. If you kept the rest of the equipment simple, tank transitions (which I'm sure is closest to everyone's heart), would be easily manageable.

You might want to think about using the generic partisan feature of TOAW rather than actual units if you are going to include them.

And it might be interesting to release it without an Apr45 specific end--tying axis (as well as Soviet) replacements to cities and events. Perhaps have the Allies land at normandie, at which time, the Axis loses, say, 30% replacements. However, there's a chance that the Allies are stalled (or perhaps even stopped altogether) and some replacements can return to the Eastern Front. Or perhaps the other idea, that is often thrown around, is that the Pacific Theater is going badly and D-day is suspended altogether. Then you could give the scenario a spring 46 end....or summer 45. Dunno...just ideas. Or you could have an event where Japan attacks the Soviets, thus suspending the arrival of certain far east armies.

You could really hone in on the historical events at such a scale. Like an EA variant that just focuses on the east front.

[Rick]

There are 2 maps from 2 different scenarios; War In The East Variant (25 miles/hex) and Rotten House of Cards (also 25 miles/hex). You may wish to look at these maps before you design yours, or perhaps the designers will give you permission to use theirs, if you find them suitable.

[Martin Schenkel]

Some more info:

Time scale will (hopefully) be 'rigged up' 1 month turns. I say hopefully, because I don't know how much weather effects are hardwired into the system. Since there are no monthly turn rates, time frame (according to the computer) will be off, affecting weather. Scenario length will be June 41 to May 45, with possible extension due to events (probably around 45-55 1 month turns). 25km/hex map scale I think will be good. I like ER Chaser's idea of not having too small a map, forcing more mobile strategies. Hitler's armies were quite literally swallowed up by the vast expanses of the Russian steppe, and I think that feeling needs to be in the game. Some general equipment transitions will be included (rifle squads, AT guns, and tanks/SPGs).

In terms of variable events, such as what Menschenfresser eluded to, I do hope to include some, as well as a few theater options. I'm thinking of making such variable events (for example Japan attacking Russia) a high probability, say 50%. That way, every time you play, the game should be different. What do people think? Would that take too much away from the historical timeline/realism?

[ER_Chaser]

hmm... it will be hard to model Japan's army though... historically, they were light armored at best. On the vast plain of siberian, they were to be easily slaughtered by T34s... but interesting idea ---- that way, the Axis will think twice to use this TO ... because it may cost him something while gaining nothing.

[JMS]

I'm in the preliminary stages of creating a simplistic, high playability version of the eastern front 41-45, based loosely on AH's Russian Front, and Gary Grigsby's War in Russia. Units will be Corps for the Axis, and Armies for Russia (although initial Russian defences will be Corps). TO&E will be simplyfied to 2-3 types of rifle squads, 2-3 types of AT guns, 1 type of artillery, and 5-10 types of tanks/SPGs on each side. Air power will be more abstract, and limited to ground attack only.

I'm currently sorting out the OOB, but would like some input as to what to include (or not include) in terms of gameplay, in order to keep the scenario simple and playable, yet realistic.

I have a long document with some info of barbarossa, you interested?

[Menschenfresser]

I'm not sure he's going to actually have Japan's army appear in the game, ER (although I could be wrong). I think he just means as an event which would effect supplies and reinforcements, etc.

I agree...a higher probability for these events is a good idea. Of course it depends on how many events like Japan attacking Russia you include. If you have 4 or 5 of such game-altering, ahistorical possibilities, they might not need be 50%. 25% would pretty much guarantee that one out of 5 would take place...and very possibly more.

I'm looking forward to this one!

And I completely agree about a larger map. You want to give the Germans room to manuever, but also you want to have a big enough map so that in some places the German line will stretch thin once it nears the eastern edge.

[Merf]

Just a quick look at map scale...

At 25 km/hex, a straignt "front line" from Leningrad to Rostov would be about 70 or so hexes. At corps/army level would that put the Axis units pretty thinly on the ground?

Would you consider altering map scale so it would be somewhere between 25 and 50 km/hex and adjusting movement points with force movement bonuses?

[Menschenfresser]

It's possible...but with the low unit count in Opart 300, there's always the opportunity to split units into 1/3s or 1/2s to cover parts of the inactive front.

[Martin Schenkel]

I'm not sure he's going to actually have Japan's army appear in the game, ER (although I could be wrong). I think he just means as an event which would effect supplies and reinforcements, etc.

Yes. Such a Japanese option would only affect Russian supply/replacements, delay the entry of many Siberian troops (perhaps depending on a variable on how well the far east front goes for either side), and perhaps as well as assuming the UK/USA would be stronger sooner in Europe, in turn affecting the Axis position.

[Martin Schenkel]

Just a quick look at map scale...

At 25 km/hex, a straignt "front line" from Leningrad to Rostov would be about 70 or so hexes. At corps/army level would that put the Axis units pretty thinly on the ground?

Would you consider altering map scale so it would be somewhere between 25 and 50 km/hex and adjusting movement points with force movement bonuses?

Actually yes. On second thought, the War in Russia map is at 32km per hex, so the scenario may have to be altered for a slightly larger hex scale.

[Martin Schenkel]

I have a long document with some info of barbarossa, you interested?

I think I have some good info already, but sure, send it along! :)