Supply trace option

[shoelessjoe]

Here is what the manual says about the map panel display when the supply view option is set to "trace."

You can use the supply view option in either the control panel or View > Options menu to display current supply information on the game map. The trace option shows the most recent supply level in each map location you currently control. A small colored supply graphic indicates which force is supplied there. A gold graphic is displayed if both forces are considered supplied in a location. The sources option shows all supply points, with the color indicating which force the point can supply.

My question. In some hexes, I see the value in a dot that is light-colored on the left side and dark-colored on the right side. In other hexes I see the value in a dot that is entirely light-colored. These are interspersed within territory behind my lines. It does not seem possible that the Axis forces can also trace supply through these hexes.

What is the different meaning of these color combinations?

thanks in advance.

[larryfulkerson]

Color of supply markers explaination:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4950/supplyexplainationwg2.jpg

The value inside the light colored dot means *this* hex has *this* supply value. For instance, if 15 is inside the dot then the supply value for this hex is 15. etc.

[Hank2]

... glad this came up ...

what does "15" actually mean? (... i know 15 was just used as an example)

is it 15% of possible supply level?

is 15 some arbitrary number that's used as a ratio against some other number? (i.e. 15 of a possible 30 ... thus 50% of the max possible supply level)

or is it something else completely?

In the Sit. Briefing window that pops up after each turn is complete, there's a supply number there. How does that number work with the 15 used above? ... or is there any correlation at all between them?

thanks
hank

[shoelessjoe]

Color of supply markers explaination:

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/4950/supplyexplainationwg2.jpg

The value inside the light colored dot means *this* hex has *this* supply value. For instance, if 15 is inside the dot then the supply value for this hex is 15. etc.
Larry, thank you for that. I have RTFM (twice through, earlier) and used the search engine here before I asked this question. I didn't find the information you provided in either place, not that they aren't there--I just can't find them. In the manual, all I found directly related to the questions was the bit I quoted in my first post. Could you tell me where your found this information? If it is in a chart in the manual, you will have my repentent apologies.

Also, as I said above, I have hexes behind my lines (Utah beach), in my control that I can't see any possible way for them to be able to supply both my forces and the other side's (Axis) forces.

I am not at home right now, so I can't fire up the game for a screenshot of what I'm talking about, but this evening I will show a small pic of what I'm talking about. Would you mind checking back about that as well?

I really appreciate the assistance.

shoeless

[pelle]

Remember not to post pictures that your opponent is not supposed to see here. :D

[Secadegas]

I really appreciate the assistance.

shoeless

This game has a learning curve and experience pays... don't get too worried about details...

There are only 2 possible situations:
Your units are supplied - that's good
Your units aren't supplied (please check unit report) - that sucks

- If they are supplied you're going to need to know only 3 things (if you manage these 3 things you'll be a reasonable player):
If your unit don't move that turn is going to be better supplied next turn.
If located adjacent or stacked with a cooperative HQ (or supply unit) will have an additional supply bonus (next turn).
The small numbers means more or less supply level - don´t worry about exact calculations - keep your units on roads and open terrain, rotate units if possible and don't move them if not necessary.

- If your units aren't supplied (a bit more complicated but not much):
You're having enemy units on your back (even if you don't see them).
Your units are too far from a supply point.
You don't understand what's happening and you can be sure you're doing something wrong (experience will teach...)

About your question (if i understand it well)... when your units enter enemy controlled terrain the supply level (the small numbers) aren't there. That's normal. They will be shown after next bookkeeping phase (meaning next turn). Please remember - When a unit starts a turn supplied it will continue supplied during whole turn no matter what you do (same for enemy units).

Hope it helps

[shoelessjoe]

Remember not to post pictures that your opponent is not supposed to see here. :D
LOL, opponent! Thanks for the reminder.

Actually, the picture I post would be from a solo hotseat I'm doing, just for practice and to compare what I'm reading in the manual to what I see in the game.

[shoelessjoe]

This game has a learning curve and experience pays... don't get too worried about details...

There are only 2 possible situations:
Your units are supplied - that's good
Your units aren't supplied (please check unit report) - that sucks

- If they are supplied you're going to need to know only 3 things (if you manage these 3 things you'll be a reasonable player):
If your unit don't move that turn is going to be better supplied next turn.
If located adjacent or stacked with a cooperative HQ (or supply unit) will have an additional supply bonus (next turn).
The small numbers means more or less supply level - don´t worry about exact calculations - keep your units on roads and open terrain, rotate units if possible and don't move them if not necessary.

- If your units aren't supplied (a bit more complicated but not much):
You're having enemy units on your back (even if you don't see them).
Your units are too far from a supply point.
You don't understand what's happening and you can be sure you're doing something wrong (experience will teach...)
I appreciate this information, Secadegas. To a degree, you are telling me not to worry about the picky details, just to get the big picture down.


About your question (if i understand it well)... when your units enter enemy controlled terrain the supply level (the small numbers) aren't there. That's normal. They will be shown after next bookkeeping phase (meaning next turn). Please remember - When a unit starts a turn supplied it will continue supplied during whole turn no matter what you do (same for enemy units).

My question will make more sense when I post a picture, I hope. My reason for wanting to understand this specific thing is that I want to have a total understanding of what it takes to have the enemy's units out of supply at the end of a turn--I didn't want to have any surprises, thinking that via super rivers, zoc and the like that I had those forces cut off when they really weren't.

Hope it helps

It does, and I'm very grateful.

[Secadegas]

My question will make more sense when I post a picture, I hope. My reason for wanting to understand this specific thing is that I want to have a total understanding of what it takes to have the enemy's units out of supply at the end of a turn--I didn't want to have any surprises, thinking that via super rivers, zoc and the like that I had those forces cut off when they really weren't.


There are fixed rules about this. If you respect them you'll not have many surprises.

Let's see...

You cut supply (or you can be cutted...) if:
- You interrupt supply line with a unit or unoccupied ZOC (please mind that sometimes in a pocket some enemy units aren't in contact with any of your units or unoccupied ZOC's. So probably the pocket can be still supplied).
- Super rivers can be tricky but with an engineer unit on the river hex will keep your units supplied.

Can't remember more ATM...

[Hank2]

... glad this came up ...

what does "15" actually mean? (... i know 15 was just used as an example)

is it 15% of possible supply level?

is 15 some arbitrary number that's used as a ratio against some other number? (i.e. 15 of a possible 30 ... thus 50% of the max possible supply level)

or is it something else completely?

In the Sit. Briefing window that pops up after each turn is complete, there's a supply number there. How does that number work with the 15 used above? ... or is there any correlation at all between them?

thanks
hank

bumped ...
is there answers to these questions in the manual?
I could not find them (not saying they're not there but I couldn't find it)
hank

[Telumar]

AFAIK it's like this. Let's assume a unit is in a hex with supply 15. This means it will get 15 "points" of supply during the bookkeeping phase. 15 is however just the basic value that will be modified according to your and your opponent's actions and the formation supply distribution efficiency. If the unit doesn't move, doesn't attack or bombard and is not attacked, bombarded or hit by interdiction strikes it will receive the full 15 points if the unit's formation has a supply distribution efficiency of 100%. So if your unit is in 70% supply it will be in 85% supply on the next turn.
It will receive 50% more if a cooperative HQ is adjacent. These 50% refer not to the supply value of the hex, but to the actual supply the unit may get without the HQ in place (Maximum supply minus modifiers (attack(ed), moved, supply distribution)).
What reduces resupply?
-Unit has moved
-Unit has attacked
-Unit has been attacked
-PM turns ->66% (in 6hour or halfday time scales)

It's in 9.1.7 in the manual.

[Hank2]

Thanks

In TOAW, there's so many numbers to consider when evaluating your status (supply, proficiency, etc.) I suggested in an interface wish list some of these values could be shown with "status bars" like what they use in CotA for moral, fatigue, experience, etc. (i.e., % of total possible) Plus the "situation briefing" and other information windows are all center justified text which makes scanning the numbers more difficult.

thanks again ... I'll look it up tonight.

[Telumar]

Thanks

In TOAW, there's so many numbers to consider when evaluating your status (supply, proficiency, etc.) I suggested in an interface wish list some of these values could be shown with "status bars" like what they use in CotA for moral, fatigue, experience, etc. (i.e., % of total possible) Plus the "situation briefing" and other information windows are all center justified text which makes scanning the numbers more difficult.

thanks again ... I'll look it up tonight.

Such a bar would be nice, sure. But i think you don't have always to look too deep into your units' status in toaw. Just keep track on the health indicator on the counters and get familiar with your units and your force at the start of the scenario: proficiencies, support levels, supply distribution etc. Once you have a feeling for the game this will be much easier, there are turns in my PBEMs i never looked into the unit report...

[shoelessjoe]

Here is the situation I was asking about:

If this were the end of the turn for both sides, would it be true that all six of the hexes containing Axis units (indicated by red outlines) would be out of supply as of the bookkeeping phase at the beginning of the next turn?
That is, either blocked directly by Allied units, by Allied ZOC or by the super river (Orne) on the south?

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/721/supplyrm9.png (http://imageshack.us)

Further, is it true that if the Axis engineering unit (which has some degree of major ferrying capacity) were moved to any of the three hexes outlined in blue and the turn then ended, all six of the same Axis hexes would then be in supply as of the next turn, including the northmost 4 via the the two hexes outlined in yellow?

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9149/supplyengqa3.png (http://imageshack.us)

I assume that if that is all correct, that the amount of supply actually conveyed across the super river by the Eng unit would depend on its ferrying capacity and proficiency and would not be maximal?

thanks again for sharing your expertise and for your patience.

[shoelessjoe]

And no, Pelle, that is not from our actual game. :p

[pelle]

I'm happy to hear that is not from your second turn of our game. :)

[Telumar]

I was not sure by myself, so i recreated the situation in a hotseat game with myself and i'll have to disappoint you, your units are out of supply due to the enemy ZOCs. Maybe if you rebuild the bridge over the Ourne river at 82/37 and manage to push back the adjacent british recon unit, but then i'd try to pull those units out across this bridge.

Your other questions: The engineering unit will trace the full supply regardless of its readiness, supply, proficiency and the amount of major ferry capacity (unless higher than 10% - under 10% it can't even enter the major river hex).
Btw, the unit needs major ferry capability, those engineers on your pic might have no ferry bridging teams in their TOE, but the 12.SS Panzer Division's engineers have..

But it would be nice if the amount of traced supply would be relative to this percentage value and if the number, type and size of the units to be supplied would be taken into account. Maybe in a future patch.

[shoelessjoe]

Thank you Telumar.
I was not sure by myself, so i recreated the situation in a hotseat game with myself and i'll have to disappoint you, your units are out of supply due to the enemy ZOCs. Maybe if you rebuild the bridge over the Ourne river at 82/37 and manage to push back the adjacent british recon unit, but then i'd try to pull those units out across this bridge. Since I was hotseating as the Allied side, that is not a disappointment. It is true, isn't it, that you can trace a supply line through connecting hexes which actually contain your own units, even if those hexes are in enemy zoc? As in, if the Axis Eng unit moved northwest one hex to the Orne river hex SE of the British Recon unit, then all other things staying the same, all the Axis units would end the turn in supply, with the two yellow hexes that are outside of Allied zoc being the key to having the four hexes to the north remain in supply? (Note that there is another Axis unit in the hex the Engineering unit would leave, to keep the chain alive.) Sorry to be so slow about this.

http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/9149/supplyengqa3.png (http://imageshack.us)

I don't have the game in front of me, so I'm not sure which hex is 82/37.

Your other questions: The engineering unit will trace the full supply regardless of its readiness, supply, proficiency and the amount of major ferry capacity (unless higher than 10% - under 10% it can't even enter the major river hex).
Btw, the unit needs major ferry capability, those engineers on your pic might have no ferry bridging teams in their TOE, but the 12.SS Panzer Division's engineers have.. Yes, this Eng unit has something like 30% major ferrying capacity. And it is useful to know that the quantity of supply is not affected by any of the readiness, proficiency or amount of major ferrying capacity.

And for Pelle: I wish! :yummy: