View Full Version : Pelle vs shoelessjoe
Starting over from the beginning with new opponent. Still at work and have not had the time to
review his first turn yet.
I will reread all the advice I got on my last first turn a few more times and try to not make the
same mistakes again (sounds like a good plan, but we'll see how it works out in practice...).
First turn is done.
I managed to blow most bridges this time, but not Pegasus (sooo close). I got four rounds of combat and were hoping for a fifth, which is why some units (mostly around Pegasus) are not dug in. Guess it was a bit optimistic when 20 % remained to hope for another round but it was my only hope of getting a few more important bridges blown. Now his tanks will roll over Pegasus bridge and through my best units left in the open in move mode on the east side of the river.
At least I have super rivers w/o bridges along a large part of the front around Utah and his americans have not gotten that far around Omaha either.
Interdiction were light. 4 % I think. No unit where hit anywhere. I should probably have tried some rail movement. His aircraft showed up in force to defend his units in combat though.
I got four rounds of combat
:thumup: :clap:
I'm planning my second turn now. I have a problem west of Caen... See attached image. I might need some help on how to best set up a defensive line there, if it is at all possible. I was planning on using my arriving SS units here on this turn, but that would now mean digging in in the open terrain. Is it better perhaps to counterattack to drive him into the mountains? Or should I set up a line further south? Not sure if it is at all possible to defend in the open. Some trick involving tactical reserves perhaps?
General Staff
14 Aug 06, 13:49
Guess it was a bit optimistic when 20 % remained to hope for another round but it was my only hope of getting a few more important bridges blown.
I should probably have tried some rail movement.
1) Oh, yeah, 20% not a hope. Another reason why 2 up 1 back is good- you can dig 2 units in and just go in with the third. If things go wrong, well 1 unit retreated isn't maybe so bad.
2) Rail movement. God no, except if really desperate- I guess case by case. Read up on interdiction- it massively increases your casualties if you're hit while entrained. Plus once move finished you're still entrained so can possibly get hit again each round. That also means you can't dig in which is often critical. I think the Germans mostly- if not exclusively- tried to rail by night, but this scenario only has daylight turns.
There are IIRC Normandy scenarios that are larger scale and have day/night turns, though don't remember offhand (Overlord 44?).
General Staff
14 Aug 06, 13:52
I'm planning my second turn now. I have a problem west of Caen... See attached image.
Can't tell from this- can you send original? (i.e. the file he sent you? Or Save and send?)
Isn't rail movement possible even with 0 % interdiction?
Save game from beginning of my second turn attached.
General Staff
15 Aug 06, 07:41
Isn't rail movement possible even with 0 % interdiction? Sure, even with 100% Interdiction but you may spontaneously combust en route. Rails here are best to keep supply as high as possible.
Comments:
1) Cherbourg guns are mobile. Wondering how they got that way?
2) A lot of units not broken down in 2/1 formation. If you site your arty effectively for maximum coverage even 1-1s or 2-2s can hold or at least punish before falling back to 2nd line. Maybe see Heldenkaiser's game for maybe how effective this can be as a defence going into final couple of rounds. If he doesn't win you can calll me Meier.
3) Arty and HQs to rear but within maximum coverage range. Actually the arty in 32,14 is an example of how to do it well, with it showing a range of 4 but with some tubes only 2 range. Nice one. (BTW I'm sure you're going back into Quineville). I'd blow the superriver bridge here and only count on a fairly token defence in the marsh, then fall back defending junctions and in CA units to take advantage of them while they still exist- that's to aid in your protection against naval units.
4) I'd keep armor out of bocage- the US had a Nasty time with armor here and a bazooka is the equivalent of a panzerfaust or panzerschreck. That's 26,24 as example.
5) Don't use open if you don't have to. Sometimes you can't avoid it like S of Bayeux which looks bad. It has 0% entrenchment to start whereas most other types have 15% before you've lifted a shovel. Where you have to try to start dogging early and use broken down engineers.
6) Try and keep units in a formation together with their HQ (for supply/combat benefit). For instance the FJs you moved to Omaha are internal support, meaning they won't help other units too well. I usually switch these with the units on the Taute and then move them on- less interdiction punishment for both or at least the misery shared.
7) Track recce units (e.g. E of Bayeux) and always keep a contiguous line in front of (or high recce units of your own to up theri MP costs) or they can slip through.
8) All units on IL except HQs, Arty and Engineers on ML because they are so valuable and you want them gone when someone pulls out a gun. There are always exceptions of course, like anything in Berlin in 1945.
9) This doesn't look good because he's taken pieces of the ridgelines between Bayeux and Caen- Bretteville and NW. Somehow you've got to get a line there with the reinforcements you got. I wouldn't try counterattacking- too costly with your resource. But this is an exception where you've got to dig in open country right up against him to restrict his movement, and also because there's just too much ground (read turns) between here and other defensible terrain. Defending behind rivers is not a good idea unless there super- sure we've heard of the defence of the Don/Volga/Rhine but who's ever heard of the defence of the Seulles? Only makes sense if theres woods or something else. Just make him pay as dearly as possible for every yard. Maybe counterattack at 76,35 to hold line.
10) 78,37. TR only when you have a good reason- arty on the move and needed for support, a little 'surprise' to keep him guessing. Since it's not dug in interdiction will hurt it more.
11) East of Dives. Pegasus is gone or moot since he'll have engineers to cross next turn. Dig in in woods and blow bridge NW.
12) Check your reinforcement schedules every turn and do a last minute check of each unit. The # of times I've forgotten and it's cost me....
There's other advice in other games less specific, and I'm just posting to what I see here. This is going to be tough to win I think- he just got off to a good/lucky start and it happens.
Hope this helps.
Thanks! I will try to improve...
> 1) Cherbourg guns are mobile. Wondering how they got that way?
I fired a few naval guns (in my last round). I didn't remember to check the status of the others.
> 3) Arty and HQs to rear but within maximum coverage range. Actually the arty in 32,14 is an example of how to do it well, with it showing a range of 4 but with some tubes only 2 range. Nice one...
Thanks. I actually checked the unit statistics for all artillery pieces. Many times (kept forgetting the minimum ranges). At least a few of the tips I read here did some good!
> For instance the FJs you moved to Omaha are internal support,
Gah! Missed that one. I tried to find units on internal support, but I must have missed those. Most units in this scenario seem to be army support.
> 11) East of Dives. Pegasus is gone or moot since he'll have engineers to cross next turn.
Actually he used his engineers to cross already. I didn't know he could get them there as soon as turn 2.
The situation in the east was bad on turn one and got worse, yes. I think he did great attacking around Caen on both sides around my flanks.
I presume breaking down the recon units is a bad idea? They get very low recon rating if I do that and seem to lose all their movement advantages (and their ability to hinder his recon movement?).
After turn 2. At least I got two more super river bridges blown. My engineers ran around helping everyone to dig in (got many nice E and F units, even in open). Too bad a few engineers got stuck on the front with not enough mp to get away, but I hope they can save themselves if attacked.
General Staff
16 Aug 06, 15:51
I presume breaking down the recon units is a bad idea? They get very low recon rating if I do that and seem to lose all their movement advantages (and their ability to hinder his recon movement?).
If the parent is at 99% recon and in full supply, the broken down pieces still do very well as a baseline.
General Staff
16 Aug 06, 17:34
After turn 2. At least I got two more super river bridges blown. My engineers ran around helping everyone to dig in (got many nice E and F units, even in open). Too bad a few engineers got stuck on the front with not enough mp to get away, but I hope they can save themselves if attacked.
Looks good. A few comments:
1) regarding engineers- yes, they can get caught in the HKL. But that's why I have the on ML in case there's an attack. These units are really valuable helping dig.
2) Avoid open if you can. At Utah I'd have dug in the mountains between the 2 towns. Note that open starts with 0% entrenchment, whereas good defensive terrain gives you a 15% head start before you've lifted a shovel.
3) Nice job east of St Saveur. You could try killing these with LA/ML attacks and direct arty support- note they're out of supply too. Might give you a nice diversion that he will pay attention to. Otherwise looks like most is heading north to Cherbourg.
4) I find a broken down SPG/ATG unit in a town with some infantry and arty support can be a real showstopper for an attacker.
5) He may be going straight north for Cherbourg. I worry there's not much between the front and Cherbourg if it comes to a foot race back.
6) Note that Sturn Battalion is a Special Forces unit. Maybe keep in reserve for 'special' missions or as a reserve with its high morale/proficiency.
7) I wouldn't use any armor in bocage- either for offense or defence. Put in towns or other good defensive terrain like mountains, woods and in open dug in where you absolutely have to use open.
8) Further east, you've probably done as best as possible near Bayeux and I like what you did east of Caen.
Going to be touch and go because he is quite far forward for T2/T3. I don't think you've much hope of holding Cherbourg given how much force seems headed that way.
Hope this helps.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.