View Full Version : Hank vs L’Emmerdeur
our first move will be posted tomorrow ... I hope he's more aggressive than my other one ... but then I know we're all learning here.
Here's turn 1 from Billy (aka L'Emmerdeur).
Not a lot different from my other game. Except he was able to put a screen of units to prevent me from taking and blowing Pegasus Bridge but I was able to blow most others.
I did exactly as General suggested. You'll see I've split nearly every unit into 3. Dug in; ignore losses; arty dug in or in tac res; etc.
Later
Hank
Turn 2. It appears this game is going to be a bit more challenging.
any feedback is appreciated
hank
move 3 attached
... again, not much to report except that he's giving me more trouble than the other game
later
Hank
by the way, what do people here think of Cobra 44 in the Classic's folder?
it seems to be quite good but I've only played a few moves so far
regards
General Staff
16 Aug 06, 13:36
Not sure why I didn't notice this game before. Maybe it just looked like it was going well, but apologies. A few comments:
1) Looks a good defence overall, and your opponent seems a good player.
2) His armored engineer east would indicate he's going to try to get across the Dives somewhere. Be careful. I'd also blow the bridge north. Hope you got some nice results on his naval units from CA.
3) A fair few LL settings. I use IL except for HQs, Arty and Engineers (ML), or in special situations, like retreated/routed units that I want to retreat.
4) A lot of TR units. Don't forget that these are essentially in the open and get hit harder by interdiction (i.e. heavier losses). Also 74,37. Now you may have dug this in and then put on TR. But the idea of 2 up/1 back is that you've got at least the makings of a second line dug in if he breaks through. Having this on TR negates some of the benefits (or even eliminates all) since if a forward unit gets attacked this unit will go to help- result no second line at all. Also 71,36 is an HQ and the last thing you really want is them moving forward- they provide combat benefits from one hex range anyway. And this whole ridge second line is pretty vital- once through they're pretty much out in the open and off to Bourgebus.
5) I'd suggest some overstacking- say near Troarn or between Bayeux and Bretteville (here some stacks have several pieces of AT and I'd probably have parcelled out separately as there's not much to go around). I'd probably be going for more depth and trying to dig second+ lines to the rear.
6) 64,37 and arty sitement. You may think this is covering Bayeux, but only partially. Take a look at unit composition- a third of your guns are range 3. That's a bit of a waste.
7) Between Bayeux and Trevieres. This is maybe your Achilles Heel and I think he's going to hammer you here next turn. It's not strong enough to start with, with no arty support I can see, and he's got an awful lot of stuff ranged against it- recce, armor, infantry. Plus look to his rear and you'll see an awful lot of his arty here massed for a major push possibly here- see 51,28 with range 7.
8) At Utah, looks like it's all out for Cherbourg. You might want to run something up Mont Castre to see if anything new appears and run back down again. Anything on the west coast is a waste.
These are just notes based on slight changes I'd make but everyone eventually develops a playing style that works for them.
Hope it helps.
Here's move 4.
He's still pushing hard across the Cotentin. I'll most likely start to fold the north parts of my line westward then south to keep these guys from getting cut off. Plus I'll leave some scattered groups to hold up the Invaders advance on Cherbourgh.
Troubles are brewing around Bayeaux and west ... the Omaha beach gang are blasting through the bocage ...
I'm going to have to add to my defenses south of Omaha. Or troubles I will have. Big ones that is.
CAen is still in OK shape. .. I think.
I got move 5 done last night and emailed this morning ... but I forgot to bring the END_of ... game file. I don't have web access at home right now so I have to email and post from work.
Tomorrow ... move 5 will get posted. I may try a screen shot or two also.
Here's move 5.
All comments welcome.
Hank
Here's a screen shot of the East half of the battle. I shot the picture at the zoomed out setting. You can see the basic lines but no detail.
... and the west half at zoomed out scale.
hank
General Staff
30 Aug 06, 17:17
Here's move 5. All comments welcome.
1) Utah. I'd be defending with the CA units along the coast. First they are a major deterrent to naval units moving up in support and secondly they have some decent intrinsic firepower that can be useful (MGs, Squads, Arty). You're maybe a bit far back here to hope to hold Cherbourg for another 8 turns.
2) I don't use anything other than IL settings unless it's arty, HQs or engineers or it's routed or retreated and needs to get away pronto (ML). Rationales explained elsewhere.
3) 43,36 as example. I always try to leave a unit 1 MP when moving up to dig in- you never know when you can use that trench on the way back. Also a lot of TR- I use very sparingly. And I can't remember the last time I used LR- a good opponent if he sees it will have your unit dancing ditties/foxtrots/tangos (really whatever amuses him) in no-mans-land using heavy shelling to keep time for your lads while they still have both legs. Units not dug in get hurt more by interdiction and when moving up in the open to support through enemy arty. Best to keep heads down unless you've a good reason to stand up and be counted (and shot down). But good placement and nice secondary lines at Omaha. SP units in the towns (really read roads) work wonders.
4) Points east. Nice aside from TR and other points already made. Also I try not to put AA units by themselves- easy overruns. Also HQs and arty when I can avoid if not fairly far behind lines.
5) Think combined arms stacks. Some infantry, some armour or AT (88s). Don't overstack infantry- best to defend in depth rather than all in one hex, and this I believe was (effective) German tactical doctrine.
6) Watch east river- he has engineers to get over this.
7) Some arty not dug in. Remember if in mobile mode it can get hit hard by interdiction plus it won't support anything defensively- to do this it must be dug in or on LR (don't) or TR.
Hope this helps. These are of course my opinions and I do appreciate you are all out there testing your own theories. Keep it up. Good luck!
When an arty is defending ("D" on the map counter) in a hex with some entrenchment value (+12% or so) ... is it less vulnerable to interdiction?
... will it provide support when in Defensive mode? I thought it did but I could be wrong. (at work and can't look) sshhhh!
Or do I have to tell the arty to dig in every turn? Or tell it to be in TR?
... I'm sure I missed a few arty units and their sitting out in Mobile status ... oh my ... Maybe they wont see me.
hank
General Staff
31 Aug 06, 10:00
When an arty is defending ("D" on the map counter) in a hex with some entrenchment value (+12% or so) ... is it less vulnerable to interdiction?
... will it provide support when in Defensive mode? I thought it did but I could be wrong. (at work and can't look) sshhhh!
Or do I have to tell the arty to dig in every turn? Or tell it to be in TR?
... I'm sure I missed a few arty units and their sitting out in Mobile status ... oh my ... Maybe they wont see me.
1) The greater the entrenchment value ("D"/"E"/"F" modes up to 100% fortified) the better the protection against any form of fire or attack, including interdiction. Really just common sense at work here.
2) In your opponent's turn arty dug in ("D"/"E"/"F" modes) and within range of a defending unit will supply defensive fire benefits if it passes a communications check and if it's a co-operative unit of some sort- the less cooperative the arty unit obviously the less likely to support, so internal support arty of a different formation may not support. Check cooperation in the manual for more details- also there's no quantitative measure of this that I'm aware of, though personally I tend to ignore most of the time and hope/count on some form of support.
3) Whether you have to tell to dig in has two answers. Somewhere in the manual it indicated (in earlier TOAW versions) that units with MPs left would dig themselves in at the end of your turn, though empirically I've found this dubious and tend to go through my formations unit by unit at close of turn to make sure everything that can dig does. I use TR very sparingly at the best of times and with arty only in my turn when I want fire support AND may need to move the unit later to support a breakthrough or just go somewhere else. Otherwise I pretty much always dig in when I can though if you use in direct fore support and your turn ends early obviously you're screwed. In TR the last thing you want is for your arty to move up in your opponent's turn to support defensively in a hex under attack, where it just gets thrown in as essentially infantry, and will often/usually take heavy losses given its passive role and the fact it's out in the open and not dug in.
Hope this clarifies/helps.
Turn 6 ... for your enjoyment
I'm going to try and post some screen prints I saved. I wish I could post them up here like I do a move (instead of having to first put them on another site).
Later
Hank
http://www.flypicture.com/bin/?id=r9D9lqvc
Hope this works. I'm using flypicture this time.
As you can see, the invaders are pounding their way south toward Caen.
Shoot ... this uploading of images is unnecessarily complicated. Why can't I simply upload a jpeg off my puter?
I don't think this is working. help
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/4351/billyvhankt6bcaenzb0.th.jpg
Lets try this again. ... using imageshack this time ... no luck
Oh well, I give up.
General Staff
09 Sep 06, 11:58
Oh well, I give up.
Actually I find the SAL file (in a ZIP) easier to deal with. It seems to download faster than some of these 3rd Party image outfits that can be soooo slow.
Move 7.
My first move without using the attack planning window. A learning experience it is.
later
Hank
General Staff
11 Sep 06, 11:37
My first move without using the attack planning window. A learning experience it is.
It's a bit like bungee jumping- initial terror followed by an exquisite sense of freedom and exhilaration.
On move, a few issues covered elsewhere- some arty not dug in, a hex with 2 units on TR where both will probably bounce into the same hex if it's attacked and therefore duplication of effort, plus some units not broken down.
But overall looks very promising. I suspect Cherbourg will fall. Carentan too. And he may stretch you east of Caen. But I think still in with a good chance of victory here. Carry on! Good luck!
Move 8.
I hope to have corrected some bad things ...
... Like messing up and leaving an arty unit with no MPs to dig in ... there's a few but a couple were emergencys
... I think I will be doing a mass pull out of the Cotenten soon ... I just hope to hold back the southern thrust long enough for the north units to get out ... "thrust" ... ?? that's a good word ... :D
... I'm building another line of defense south of the Aure River, south of the bocage in some hills and woods ... I hope to make a killing field in front of them ...
... He keeps creeping closer to Caen ... and east of Caen I have troubles ...
And again ... no attack planning dialog used .... none at all ... ;)
later
Hank
Move 9.
More of the same except he's really starting to cut through the cotenten ... and he has Carentan ... I hope I held it long enough to get a win here.
Later
Hank
Move 10
the cotenten is falling to pieces.
I'm rushing the 2nd Pz there to bolster the neck of the peninsula
doesn't look good right now
later
Hank
... and move 11
If this game lasted 20 or 30 moves I would be in bad shape at this point. He's drilled through in several places.
... and I'm running like hell in the cotenten
later
Hank
Move 12
the cotenten has fallen along with Bayeaux ... it looks grim at Caen
the sheeet is hitting the fan blades and Hitler wants some heads to roll
... it doesn't look good for the Axis
Later
Hank
I didn't realise that was the last move.
I got the overwhelming win. L'Emmeurdeux played a good game but I think he is quite disappointed.
He played a good game IMHO. My take was that he wasn't aggressive enough in the first two moves. This could be due to not knowing all the intricate features that make subtle advantages for a player like the use of arty (which I don't know well); supply; command; combat rounds; etc etc. All these I still don't feel good about in my play.
Later, I will post more stuff in the Notes Comments thread one level up.
My next goal is to win against Heldenkaiser et al.
thanks for the help guys
Hank
Congratulations. As I have just read your observations, I trust that learned much form this Workshop. Good luck with your future games.
Thanks Veers.
I read the reply's to my notes and my goal for the next defensive struggle is to counterattack more. I didn't do much of that in my game with Billy.
... best regards
Thanks Veers.
I read the reply's to my notes and my goal for the next defensive struggle is to counterattack more. I didn't do much of that in my game with Billy.
... best regards
Ensure that you only counter-attack when the opportunity presents itself, however. 2WiN is not a scenario where you can do much attacking as the Germans. :laugh:
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