Range and Views

[joblue]

First off, great game.

1. Does anyone here also have problems with the camera viewing commands? They just dont seem intuititive, and I have been playing computer games for decades. The fact that you can actually roll your view upisde down is wierd...that should have been constrained.

2. Also, are they ary tools in teh game to determine range?

3. Probably ask3ed a million times, but will there be a custom mission generator?

4. i hope the price diesnt scare anyone away, it is admittidly steap.

Thanks in advance...

Joblue

[NormKoger]

The fact that you can actually roll your view upisde down is wierd...that should have been constrained.

Constraints tend to drive me nuts...

I guess we all see camera controls in light of what we are used to playing. The camera controls are similar to what I'm used to in the games I play. They are easy to extend if we wish. I just have to have some sort of consensus on what might be a nice addition before diving back into the code.

Playing with the camera control code is not difficult.


...are they ary tools in teh game to determine range?


When your mouse is over a "pickable" thing (terrain, ships, etc.) the range from the point of view (camera position) to the picked thing is given near the bottom of the screen. If you have a ship selected, the ranges are instead given with reference to your selected ship.


...will there be a custom mission generator?


There are no immediate plans for a scenario editor. Right now we have the random battle generator, which may be extended a bit, and the campaign game for generating battles beyond the included scenarios.

If anyone would like to propose a historical writeup, order of battle, location, and set of force deployments, I would be happy to consider generating additional battle scenarios for inclusion in future updates. It's actually the historical writeup / briefing that is the biggest nuisance in creating scenarios.

[joblue]

Thanks...(man, do I need a spell-checker!)

Joblue

[FJ88]

Constraints tend to drive me nuts...

I guess we all see camera controls in light of what we are used to playing. The camera controls are similar to what I'm used to in the games I play. They are easy to extend if we wish. I just have to have some sort of consensus on what might be a nice addition before diving back into the code.

Playing with the camera control code is not difficult.





I think most people would be happy with holding down the right mouse button and being able to pan and rotate by moving the mouse.
The mouse wheel would control zooming.

I do not know if you have ever played Homeworld 2, but it might be worth picking up a copy just to see how the camara works.
It is a RTS game with the most perfect camara controls of any 3-D game I have ever played.

[NormKoger]

...holding down the right mouse button and being able to pan and rotate by moving the mouse.

It would have to be something other than the right mouse button. That is already very heavily used. Perhaps a key on the keyboard?

[Bloodstar]

Heroes V have also very good camera control... Still didn't played Distant Guns very much to have opinion.

[Commodore Rob]

With regards to the camera controls might i suggest using either the ctrl button or the shift button in conjunction with the cursors to pan round, as I tend to find it far easier using cursors to move the camera. raqther then everything through the mouse.

Having said that I am getting used to the controls slowly.

[mbv]

I think its just a familiarisation process. I am quite happy with the controls now using a combination of the mouse/cursor keys and Page Up/Down. I can get pretty much the view I want when I need it now. If we keep asking for the view controls to be changed we will just have to go through the initial familiarisation process all over again. Stick with it guys and get used to it, it soon becomes second nature.

[JaguarUSF]

It would have to be something other than the right mouse button.

Middle mouse button?

[FJ88]

It would have to be something other than the right mouse button. That is already very heavily used. Perhaps a key on the keyboard?

Spacebar would be my pick since its the easiest key on the keyboard to find when you arnt looking.

[FJ88]

Middle mouse button?


Not everyone has one of those, some still dont have mouse wheels and of the ones that do have mouse wheels some are the kind that do not 'click'

[NormKoger]

Middle mouse button?

I have never been able to hit a middle button on a wheel mouse without also rolling the wheel. And I can't seem to scroll a wheel without occasionally depressing it to the button position. So I try not to use the center button these days.

Looks like folks would be happy to play with a keyboard key. It's easy enough to do. When I start tinkering with the code on Monday, I will look into this.

[pad152]

The game controls are a major issue, I have to pause the game to pan, zoom, change course, otherwize things spin or jump all over the place.

To change the view from a ship I have to do the following;

1. Pause the game.

2. Select a ship.

3. Set the camera to follow view (to keep the view locked on a point on the map), otherwize I lose my point of reference while moving the mouse to the pan/zoom area in the lower left area of the screen, this is a major issue.

4. Play around with the pan and zoom, to get it to where I want.

5. Un-pause the game.

In every other 3D game I can do the following;
1. Select a point on the map, hold down the right mouse button to pan.
2. Use the mouse wheel to zoom.

It takes me five steps to do in this game, what other games takes two.
What am I doing wrong?

In this game I can only pan clockwize, in other games I can pan clockwize or counter clockwize with the mouse. In other games I never lose my point of reference on the map while I pan or zoom, because the hold-down of the right-mouse button holds my point of reference.

[NormKoger]

In this game I can only pan clockwize.
Only clockwise? Panning with keyboard or mouse? That's very strange. Is anyone else seeing this?
What am I doing wrong?
I have no idea. Hopefully other reports will help me figure it out. What is your frame rate? (F4 to toggle frame rate display at screen lower left).

[pad152]

Frame Rate goes from 64.x to 74.x, sometimes it goes as low as 58.x.

When the range is close and the shells start to really fly it will drop to 18.x or 20.x's

[NormKoger]

Frame Rate goes from 64.x to 74.x, sometimes it goes as low as 58.x.

Hmmm... Well, it's not a frame rate issue then.

When you say you can only pan clockwise: Is this by moving the mouse to the screen edge, or are you using the keypad? I know some folks seem to have an issue with the keypad pan. If that's the case with you, it's already on my docket for Monday. If, instead, you are having problems panning when hitting the screen edge, there is something else going on.

[pad152]

Well maybe we have a terminology issue here. What I am refering to here is setting the view. The white cone that shows on the mini-map the view from where you are looking, it only spins only a clockwise direction. The only way I can set it on my system, is to lock the view on a ship with the camera set to follow view. If I don't pause the game and lock the view on a ship when trying to pan zoom (set the view) I will lose the reference point of where I want the view set. Sometimes I end up with an unside down view or the white cone spining out of control. The same type thing happens when I try to set a new course, the course lines jump all over the place if the game is not paused.

[sossages]

Hi Norm , first can i just congratulate you and the team on a really great game , its looking and playing really well .

the only issue i have that relates to camera controls is having the pan and the direction (albeit in a yellow zone) on the screen together , i am constantly panning when i should be moving and moving when i should be panning all because of a slight movement of the mouse. can i suggest perhaps that one uses the keyboard direction arrows to physically move the camera about and use the screen edges purely for panning , in my humble opinion i think this may make a significant improvement to the confusion that ive been reading about regards this topic.

[pad152]

Update: My Pan and Zoom problems are fixed, I deleted the DG.cfg restarted the game and my problems are gone! :)

Sorry I don't know which option(s) was causing this.

[Dogbert]

On both the computers I have tried DG on, the camera movement is devilishly fast, making me spend a lot of time trying to adjust the view, only to "overshoot" what I was trying to look at. Maybe add a modifier key that you can hold down to slow down camera movement, or slow it down overall and add an accellerator key.

[pad152]

Norm

Go and download the demo for Sword of the Stars, you can find on the same thrid party sites as GD, This game as the type of pan/zoom I've seen in most other 3D games. Hold down right mouse button to pan, mouse wheel to zoom.

[Simjockey]

Have to say that I'm getting the hang of the view method using mouse alone. The only issue I seem to have is overshoot when I get really close (the graphics are outstanding - I often let my ships do their own thing as I watch an enemy vessel get hammered!).

[NormKoger]

...can i suggest perhaps that one uses the keyboard direction arrows to physically move the camera about and use the screen edges purely for panning...
I had to laugh when I read this:) Inside joke...

Pressing shift-f9 toggles the yellow left / right / back / forward panels on/ off. This is the way I play the game - slide panels off / edges dedicated 100% to pan / tilt. The slider panels were added at the request of some of the test group. When first implemented, they were invisible - which _really_ drove me nuts until I hit upon the yellow "warning" bars. Try shift-f9 and let me know what you think.

[NormKoger]

Maybe add a modifier key that you can hold down to slow down camera movement, or slow it down overall and add an accellerator key.
More fodder for the docs... Try holding down the control key during camera movements. I believe this will slow down all flavors of camera moves.

[Dogbert]

Eep, thanks :o

I do, however also have the issue where the rotate keys (7 and 9) get "stuck" and the camera just spins out of control until I use the mouse or another key to stop it.