Open-country tank..

[Poor Old Spike]

I just playtested "Best Served Cold" v 2.1 (cmbb) in The Proving Grounds and was able to kill both Tigers with my T-34/85's because they were crowded by the buildings around them and I was able to race round and hit them in their sides and rear before they could train their guns on me.
As Clint Eastwood said in "Kelly's Heroes" - "the Tiger's an open-country tank, it's no good in towns"..

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/2600/tigerholeuu1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Palantir]

I've always liked Kellys Heros!

Good point again Mick. :)

[Poor Old Spike]

Palantir quote - I've always liked Kellys Heros!
--------------------------------------------




Me too mate, in fact I like most of Clints films, his "Play Misty For Me" was a classic where he's stalked by some psycho woman lusting after him. Huh some guys have all the luck..
Speaking of stalking, I created a tiny training scen a while back called "Tiger Stalk" where 6 T-34/76's have to kill a single Tiger which gives noobs confidence by destroying the myth of the Tigers invulnerability.
The 76's can't penetrate but the trick is to rush it around tree clumps and contours to pepper it with point-blank partial pens and possible gun hits and immobs to encourage the crew to abandon before it can traverse its gun to get you, you should win 5 times out of 6..
Download here (click the blue letters "POS-Tiger Stalk")-
http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/scenario_blog.html?scensku=777

[TacCovert4]

When facing an enemy tank in open country with an inferior tank (that is faster with higher turret rotation), the key is to advance on the enemy at an angle on bow from 35 to 70 degrees, turning sharply as you near 200m or so to a path parallell to the enemy tank, but 180 degrees removed from it's direction of travel. Sometimes the enemy will help you with this (by turning the tank to face you). As you pass the tank, cut hard again towards it, both to afford your own gunner a clear shot at it's rear, and to give you an escape route away from the tank's rotating turret.

[Nemesis Lead]

LOL--I love your posts POS. Your battles all look like Demolition Derbies with Tanks killing each other in hand to hand combat! :surprise: Just put a bayonet in the tank's barrel and charge!

Slightly more seriously, do you have tank crews bail out and then get into pistol fights with enemy tank crews?:crosseye:

[TacCovert4]

I don't know about POS, But I do all the time. Why waste 2-5 perfectly good pistoleros by letting them hide. They bailed out, and not under orders so dammit they're going to fight anyway.

[Poor Old Spike]

Nemesis Lead quote - do you have tank crews bail out and then get into pistol fights with enemy tank crews?
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Sometimes happens mate, sometimes not, in fact there are a whole new set of sound wavs to enable crews to talk to each other in such gunfights -
PA CLANTON - "I've come fer mah boy"
WYATT EARP - "He's stayin' in jail til the circuit judge arrives"
PA CLANTON - "Yer makin' me mighty mad marshall"
DOC HOLLIDAY - "In that case take these tablets, go lie down and call me if it gets any worse"..

Another time a crew went into a rubbled casino and found one surviving enemy crewman in there. "My name's Bond" he said, "James Bond"..

[2054172]

I don't know about POS, But I do all the time. Why waste 2-5 perfectly good pistoleros by letting them hide. They bailed out, and not under orders so dammit they're going to fight anyway.

Run away if you can. For reasons 1) crews in real life were had to train and keep alive. I believe it was a standing or to get away and fight another day. 2) They are worth more points dead to you enemy then 2-5 squad men.:p :smoke:

[TacCovert4]

Admittedly against the AI, but I once used 2 tank crews, 1 platoon leader and a pioneer squad to assault a position held by 3 rifle squads. We were successful, though each unit lost about 2 guys. It all depends on the situation.

[Geordie]

Geordies rule number 12.

Never use armour in a built up area unless they have at least 1 squad of infantry each in front of them. The infantry should fight the battle and the armour should support them as far back as practicable. the bigger your armour, the more protection you should give them.

Try mixing in some flame tanks in built up areas and loading up on engineers supported by a few tanks and the occassional heavy SP gun.

[kawaiku]

Too me anyone who can shoot (including the tank crews) are frontline soldiers. And if they run out of ammo then they ambush and try and get in to hand-to-hand. Now, if the game allowed tank crews to enter bailed out tanks, then I would save them.... but since you can't, they get the unpleasent job of helping infantry assaulting positions. They seem to attract quite abit of fire so it helps some. Thats my battle hardend two-cents worth of combat talk.

[KGPanzerschrecK]

Too me anyone who can shoot (including the tank crews) are frontline soldiers. And if they run out of ammo then they ambush and try and get in to hand-to-hand. Now, if the game allowed tank crews to enter bailed out tanks, then I would save them.... but since you can't, they get the unpleasent job of helping infantry assaulting positions. They seem to attract quite abit of fire so it helps some. Thats my battle hardend two-cents worth of combat talk.

With all due respect Mr. Kawaiku, those Tank Crews can be worth as many points as the vehicle they just bailed out of. {thats why they draw all that fire} Especially Veteran and Crack ones. Always send them for the back of the map. Use them to hold Minor victory locations in safe out of the way locations where you know they wont see any action. If no such place exists, tuck them away somewhere safe, dont use them as Infantry. Those points add up and can be the difference between a draw and a minor victory or a draw and a minor loss in a close game. Food for thought for you. :supper: :hmmm: :salute:

[TacCovert4]

A lot of times KG, I'll use larger tank crews (4-8) as support units in mass assaults (being undertaken by 4+ infantry squads). I find that if you can slip a vehicle crew in decently close, the enemy will not shoot at them because they are too busy getting shot at by the infantry. Then the pistols can actually be some good, allowing your infantry to move against a second enemy squad while your tankers keep the remnants of the first under fire. Otherwise, tankers make great VL Placeholders.

[KGPanzerschrecK]

A lot of times KG, I'll use larger tank crews (4-8) as support units in mass assaults (being undertaken by 4+ infantry squads). I find that if you can slip a vehicle crew in decently close, the enemy will not shoot at them because they are too busy getting shot at by the infantry. Then the pistols can actually be some good, allowing your infantry to move against a second enemy squad while your tankers keep the remnants of the first under fire. Otherwise, tankers make great VL Placeholders.

Im willing to admit that there are times when you can use them effectively as Infantry, but why take the risk if you dont have to? If you have to, well thats a different story. I myself have ambushed a full healthy squad with 5 man Tank crew and wiped out that squad but only because the situation was desperate and i needed every man i could find. But in the long run IMHO it pays to save those crews and their points. Their points and there potential loss far outway any reasonable possible points gain that they themselves could inflict. Just my .02 cents worth. But i do understand what you are saying. :)

[Neilm85uk]

I move them to the rear areas immediately. I don't think it's reasonable to use these poor guys in combat unless they're trapped in which case they would? fight their way out.

[The Hooded One]

I move them to the rear areas immediately.

Me too. I'd go so far as to say I think it's gamey to use them as either infantry or spotters, as I've seen some people do.

[Tweety]

I think I have read somewhere that vehicle crews have their spotting ability severely castrated (makes you think again about all those long-range misses) to prevent their use as spotters.
Likewise, they already start with low ammo and shoot in self-defense only, don't they? Doesn't make them terribly useful in assaults except as more targets for the enemy to shoot at. Of course, not terribly many new targets. How often do you get a five-man-crew out of their track alive?

I pull them out while they can still walk and hold the flags. If I really don't know what to do with them, two or three can guard the POWs. That about
explores all of their usefulness in my opinion.

[Victor Charlie]

Another thing is vehicle crews are worth big VPs. So best not to lose them.

[Poor Old Spike]

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/9809/tigertdj9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)