View Full Version : The Vietnam Specific Obat Project
This is something I've been working on for some time now, with the assistance of a great many people (including Laurent Touchard, who's pack is unfortunately indefinitly delayed for personal reasons). I'm working on another release in dual form, which I just posted in my thread over on the Shrapnel Games forums. I thought I'd post the readme files over here to see if I can attract any new support.
Read the readmes, but feel free to ask any questions if you're still confused. The Ver3 readme also contains a preliminary bibliography sans internet and personal sources, which I hope people should also find interesting and proof that I have spent a lot of time with actual sources to find my information.
I'm no good at making scenarios, but I fancy myself pretty good at creating units and I've been experimenting a LOT with all sorts of things. If anyone interested in the period wants me to create units or make use of this pack I think that would be awesome, and I'd be sure to include the scenarios with proper credit in any future release.
Double Deuce
27 Jul 06, 18:05
Interesting. I do have a couple questions though;
Do you have these units already created in modded OOB files?
Do you have new LBM files for them for the encyclopedia?
Do you have new SHP files for the icons created already?
1: Everything noted in those files has been done, all changes and new units have been completed. The only thing that doesn't appear in the readmes are weapon additions.
2: Unfortunately I don't have the resources to edit and/or create LBMs, so no.
3: PlasmaKrab has offered to help as time allows, and he's in the process of getting things together for SHPs for the pack. Of course he's only one person and can't do everything. I've also been in contact with Laurent Touchard who gave me all the icons intended for his pack, so there are those as well. I, personally, find photoshop unnecessarily complicated for some reason and cannot seem to get the hang of creating my own. If I could there are a number of icons I'm pretty sure I could make myself from available parts.
The Ver3 OOBs could probably be released now, but there's a lot I want to add with the new space I've created for myself via the Total Conversion Addendum. The ability to overlay the Addendum over the other OOBs by "installing" them second via the OOB manager means that I can grant people the easy option of switching between simply modified OOBs and dramatically different ones.
Also, I've been working on some unit and formation info text, and have modified Obat 80s names and ranks to be correct for the USAF.
I just updated the attached files (mainly because I completed the basic bibliography in the readme, although I'll be adding to that as well). Also, I realized, that if people have any requests for things they'd like to see or whatever, I'm always interested in feedback.
Before anyone goes and asks for some things, I'll keep a running tally of things that break the game a bit too much:
-Leaflet Bombs/dispensers; far too much suppression to be anywhere near realistic
-Stand-off cluster munitions; aircraft drop class 14 weapons at range 1 regardless of range
-CS (tear gas) grenades, rockets, etc; while Listy and Laurent Touchard implemented this, one had to accept that it was going to produce casualties, which some people might in turn call realistic (note, I have implemented CS clusters, as this works without casualties)
-Paradropped bombs (such as "daisy cutters"); apparently Listy tried this one too, couldn't get reliable detonation from an "ammo carrier" unit, which is what I was trying to create as well
-"Fast FAC" AOP aircraft; game does not register speeds over 4 for AOP aircraft to prevent them from immediately going off map; doesn't mean I haven't included a few and just set them to four, but jets appear to be out of the question as far as game mechanics are concerned
junk2drive
30 Jul 06, 23:15
Thanks for you effort on this. I enjoyed Laurent's pack for the older version.
I went back and reread the thread at Shrapnel. Are these doc's the same as the attachments over there?
These are slightly updated from the ones over at Shrapnel.
Small Update to the files again, I'm debating stopping all new unit work and most modified unit work on V3 to dedicate my time spent working on this entirely to the Total Conversion aspect. I am reach the limits of what the OOB space will allow in the add-on pack.
Note this really only applies to the US Army and USMC Obats, as there is plenty of room in all the other relevant ones. I guess I should've said that no more additions to the basic pack will be made to the Obats affected by the Total Conversion Addendum. If I run out of room say in the ARVN Obat I think I'm going to be scared ;).
Another update to the files. I'm trying to get the new icons ready, but PlasmaKrab has offered to do this and both has other projects and his own life. Once the new icons are ready I'll likely go ahead and release V3 of the Specific OOB pack.
As for the total conversion, I'm adding stuff as time allows but being in grad school sort of means I do what I can in my spare time and I'm not devoting the same level of energy to it. However, you can see in the files for yourself that there are now ground units in the USAF OOB ;)
Hope this keeps the interest up.
Some hacked icons I've made that will hopefully be included in the mod:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/O-2.jpg
O-2 "Sleepytime FAC" w/ "THE FAC" written on the wings (this was inspired by an actual picture)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/B-26KCOINgreen.jpg
B-26K (COIN Green scheme)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/B-26K3-tone.jpg
B-26K (3-Tone/SEA scheme)
The B-26Ks take parts from the stock A-1 (stores) and Fouga Magister (wingtip tanks) as well.
I have a question. Would people want a release of the basic pack or would they rather wait until more of the Total Conversion is complete to go along with it?
What do you mean "basic pack"? Only oobs?
The way I have things at the moment, its split up into two parts.
1) The Basic Vietnam Specific OOB Pack, which also has new text and icons, but is designed not to screw too much with existing scenarios and save games by not chopping large amounts out of existing OOBs. Of course there are some issues, and the ARVN OOB has largely been overhauled, and in the US Army OOB I chopped the NG formations and units to free up space.
2) The Total Conversion Overlay, which totally hijacks existing OOBs (currently only the UN one) to make room, and makes almost all existing scenarios utilizing the US Army at least largely unplayable.
The point of having it this way is so that people can decide how much they want to install, and using the OOB manager, can install it to one of two levels. Those looking for the whole thing simply install the Basic Pack, then install the Total Conversion over that, which replaces the existing US Army, USMC, and ARVN OOBs, and adds the new UN OOB.
I'm deeply indepted to Plasmakrab for it, but whatever the format of the next release, it'll have a host of new icons.
Here goes nothing.
Attached is the release of The Vietnam Specific OOB Project V3. This is the Basic pack, and is designed to mesh relatively well with existing scenarios and saved games. Those playing as either the US Army or as the ARVN might experience some issues.
Most important, back up icons and possibly text before overwriting and copying from the zip. The easiest way to install this pack is to:
1) Extract into the Custom OOBs folder
2) Move the graphics folder, picture folder, and text folder into the Game Data folder. Just hit yes to all, and copy over all the files.
Another note, the text file has a folder called "Text for VSP ONLY." At the moment you'll want to copy this over as well into the main text file. This will only matter once the Total Conversion Pack is released.
Certain units and formations changed positions when moved or applied to the new OOBs in the Total Conversion, so certain text files point to the wrong units in that case. Don't worry about this now, text will be provided with the Total Conversion Pack that will overwrite these and correct it. The distinction and seperation is really only provided for when the two packs are installed together and some people want to install just the VSP. They will need the proper text files in this case.
Otherwise the basics are as follows, and you can consult the included readme for the specifics:
- Over 200 new units and 100 new formations across 9 OOBs
- A largely overhauled ARVN OOB now including a variety of paramilitary forces.
- Just over 100 new icons thanks to Plasmakrab (first and foremost), Mark Shepard and Laurent Touchard (who supplied me with his and did some of the work I believe)
- New formation and encyclopedia text
- A detailed Readme with documentation of the changes since the last release (v2.7) and a near complete bibliography of my sources of information
With all that I hope you enjoy it. Feedback, as always, is appreciated.
Thanks, Joe "Thatguy" Trevithick
Great Thatguy:laugh: . I will try that stuff soon... Btw, should you attach that v.3 into Shrapnelgames' Forum too?
Here are some more icons I've been working on:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/JOV-1A.jpg
JOV-1A Mohawk (Clipped the wings on the standard OV-1 icon, added stores). I've actually gone and created clipped wing mohawks, because I felt that wings on the standard model were too long.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/A-26On-Mark.jpg
On-Mark Invader "Blue Goose" (hacked a model close to that of the B-26K, then deleted the rear window, elongated the nose, and changed the color)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/ATC.jpg
Armored Troop Carrier (ATC) (hacked from the monitor and LCM icons)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/LSSC.jpg
Light Seal Support Craft (LSSC) (hacked from the "PT boat green" and PBR icons)
junk2drive
15 Oct 06, 21:31
Nice
Keep up the good work if it is a hobby for you. Don't turn it into a chore.
No, to be honest, this is what I do when I take breaks these days. My undergrad degrees were in history and international relations. South East Asia has always been a point of interest, and now I have an outlet for information I already have access too. Its definitly not a chore.
The Trojans are here!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/T-28whitearmed.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/T-283-Tonearmed.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/T-28whitearmedRTAF.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/T-28whitearmedKAF.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/thatguy96/Icons/T-28whitearmedVNAF.jpg
With marking for the Khmer Air Force, Royal Thai Air Force, and Vietnamese Air Force, as well as white and 3-tone camo. The base white and camo also have non-armed versions. Its a modified version of the T-34 icon, because I was tired of not having one for the T-28.
Um, in my recent work on this project, I went through a noticed a large number of new infantry units I added were size 0. This has been identified and has already been corrected for any future release. It has also been corrected in non-released items. Just in case anybody notices this and wonders why there are very basic infantry squads of 9 guys for over 20 credits.
Otherwise here are some things one can expect in the next release of the basic pack:
-An every continuing mission to find every last little South Vietnamese militia (you have no idea how many there are heh). I think I might be close to being done, after doing up the Civil Guard, Regional Force/Regional Mobile Group, Popular Force, and People's Self-Defense Force, I've added the National Police Field Force. I'm still trying to find enough good info on the Military Police, Marine Police, and warlord militias from the French period.
-Hopefully more new icons, I've been working on a number of relatively simple ones myself. They're mostly hacks of existing ones, but more flavor is good.
-Clean ups in general (as can be seen in the clearing up of the size 0 infantry mess)
Attached is the updated change list for the Total Conversion, which is still in progress. I've added new a new flag for the purchase screen for the Covert Ops/SOG OOB, and if I find one that reduces nicely I should do the same for the USAF OOB. USAF OOB now includes relevant infantry, some fortifications, and as ever more aircraft.
Feedback as always is appreciated, in the way of what you'd like to see, what's wrong with what you see already, and whatever.
Double Deuce
27 Dec 06, 09:53
No, to be honest, this is what I do when I take breaks these days. My undergrad degrees were in history and international relations. South East Asia has always been a point of interest, and now I have an outlet for information I already have access too. Its definitly not a chore.Despite the quietness on the subject, I for one am looking forward to this Mod. Of course, any scenario design work will have to wait until this is finished.
Once its done, will there be a need for some intro/starter type scenario's and playtesters to give it a run through?
Without a doubt. The problem is I keep finding things, and perhaps I'm trying to be a perfectionist about it hehe. The holidays have sort of put a lot of this on hold, but I have been working on it. Any scenario makers who are interested in coupling with this project should pm me or Email me at jtrevith@gmail.com, and I can send you the unfinished files if you're interested in starting work now.
The biggest thing which has me sort of collecting up a whole new set of info was stripping the US Navy out of the USMC OOB. I still haven't figured out what exactly is still missing on that end, and what is of a relevant scale for SP. Some things have gone off map in the interim, and some other things deleted all together.
The other thing is I've been trying desperately to find out some sort of concrete history of ARVN special forces (LLDB and LDNN/Biet Hai at least, and maybe even Biet Kich), because its coming up while doing work for the Covert Ops OOB. I'm having a hard time figuring out who was really in control (surprise surprise), which is creating the debate about what OOB to put things in and when. I've also just got some more info on the twighlight of the CIDG program which I want to add in. As it stands now, the CIDG program is in the Covert Ops/CIA OOB like it should be as they ran the program until Operation Switchback turned it over to MACV, at which point I then put it in with the US Army. It stays there until it gets turned over to the ARVN at the end of 1971.
Otherwise there's been some new icon work and the like. If I find the energy and make a decision about which OOB is going to be the USN, I'll likely post up another TC Addendum file for people to look at to get a feel of what I've been doing.
junk2drive
12 Jan 07, 13:00
What's the latest news?
I'm looking forward to the patch and then try out your project.
I'm sorta trying to wait to see what the patch entails myself. I'm still working off and on. I'll post the current version of the readme file so people can see what's going on.
Double Deuce
12 Jan 07, 22:56
What's the latest news?
I'm looking forward to the patch and then try out your project.I agree. Maybe I will use it as the basis for a new tournament once the patch is released and all the dust settles. Although that is a little bit down the road. :smoke:
Just a little update. I've converted all the basic pack's OOB's to V3, except for the US Army one and the USMC one. The amount of grunt work that it actually took to copy over all the stuff in the Cambodian and Aussie OOBs (which were very small) has sort of put me off to want to have to redo all the changes I had to the US Army and USMC OOBs. I'm not sure when that will happen. Its the same problem for the Total Conversion. The completely redone OOBs would just require a total recosting (which is a lot of work in itself for say the USAF, but not near as annoying as having to go back and forth between OOBs).
Right now I've sort of more dedicated myself to both trying to create a more complete ARVN OOB, and with the WinSPWWII update in the works to trying to correct plane errors and add things in so I can post them up for possible consideration.
junk2drive
04 Feb 07, 16:46
Geez sorry to hear that. Not a copy and paste job eh?
Maybe someday an easier way will pop up.
Geez sorry to hear that. Not a copy and paste job eh?
Maybe someday an easier way will pop up.
No, it is a copy and paste job, just a big one hehe.
Alright, so Junk2drive sent me a PM offering to help and as I was typing an explanation of how that would be possible I realized that I was really overstating the work necessary for updating the basic pack to V3. So attached is the Basic pack done for V3 with some already planned additions. Release is in two parts, copy OOBs (Part I) to a custom OOB folder, and then back up and copy the graphics, text and pictures folders (Part II) to the right places.
Work on the Total Conversion continues, but I have no ETA on when I'll feel ready for an initial release.
Whoops, remaining icon issues in OOB12, fixed OOB here. However, I've also gotten one report of OOB12 being filled with remaining icon issues, despite it working fine on my end, and after checking the OOB included in the zip. If anyone is having an issue please let me know. Thanks.
Just to let people know, the previous work on the Total Conversion has now also been brought up to V3 standard, so work can continue
Another progress report. Have done a fair amount of formation work, and have taken most of the redone MIKE Force/Mobile Guerrilla and similar stuff in my new standalone ARVN OOB and incorporated it into the Total Conversion's "MACV/Covert Ops" OOB (formerly the Green OOB). Not so much icon work lately, nor very many new units.
In other news, I've got a semi-functional Lao OOB done as well, but it still needs more work.
Alright, so as always the patch has caused an immediate setback in order to bring everything up to code. Last time I stalled on doing this for some time, and I'm not sure when my life will allow for it. The largest amount of work would likely go into trying to find files with space for the icons (though the new hovercraft icons are really cool!), but with things like the new hovercraft class I might want to look over various other issues before any future release.
Basically, there's logistical work to be done before any future release, and I'm not sure when it'll get done.
Alright, after much wait, here's v4.1 for WinSPMBT 3.5. The most important change is that the USA and USMC OOBs are no longer included in the basic pack. It was getting to the point that keeping up with the changes and additions was becoming impossible. Those OOBs will now only be found in the Total Conversion Pack. Also, this pack now includes a revised S. Korean OOB, and a further revised Thai OOB.
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