How bad is retreated status?

[Heldenkaiser]

I get hit by aircraft a lot when moving ... if a unit arrives at its new destination in "retreated" status, can it be expected to hold the line or shouldn't I even bother to put it there because it will retreat anyway if attacked? What if it's attacked but has artillery support?

In other words, is this deployment worth anything?

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/Temp/30mob.jpg

The first and third company from the left are "retreated", the second and fifth are "defending" and the fourth is "moving" (ran out of MP after being attacked from the air before it could entrench). The company in reserve and the battery are "defending" as well. Is this any good? Should the reserve company be in "tactical reserve"? Thanks!

[General Staff]

I get hit by aircraft a lot when moving ... if a unit arrives at its new destination in "retreated" status, can it be expected to hold the line or shouldn't I even bother to put it there because it will retreat anyway if attacked? What if it's attacked but has artillery support?

In other words, is this deployment worth anything?

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/Temp/30mob.jpg

The first and third company from the left are "retreated", the second and fifth are "defending" and the fourth is "moving" (ran out of MP after being attacked from the air before it could entrench). The company in reserve and the battery are "defending" as well. Is this any good? Should the reserve company be in "tactical reserve"? Thanks!
Yeah, interdiction is desperate here. In my game it's worse because Elmer doesn't understand the house rule about heavy bombers not being allowed on interdiction so I'm operating under a 16% interdiction level. Sometimes you can't even see the sun.

First, one suggestion. I'd switch from displaying MPs to displaying unit strengths. Most players do and it's more valuable info as you look to create a line. It will show attack and defence in x-y format. You can always see MPs at a glance for any unit in the top right window at bottom. Options->Unit Icons->Strength.

If I have control over it, I try and avoid putting retreated units up front. This is another reason why I use '2 up, 1 behind'- you can often keep the retreated unit behind. In this case, I'd have put the bottom-most unit one hex NW and the rightmost unit 1 hex SE of Trevieres. But interdiction hits every round, often after you've moved and dug in, so you're going to end up with units 'dug out' whether you like it or not. If a retreated unit is attacked, arty that's not mobile or retreated or routed will support. Is this disposition worth anything? Yes- in bocage, behind a river and with arty support. Hey, we can only do the best we can.

You've really got to feel for the Germans under that sort of interdiction- 'der deutsche blick' (the German glance) I think they used to call it, constantly scanning the sky for interdiction aircraft.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thank you! I am glad to see I did something halfway right ... :o

[Telumar]

In other words, is this deployment worth anything?

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/Temp/30mob.jpg



In principal this line is good. Not wanting to disencourage you and to speak against General Staff, but imo this line will only delay the enemy, you know you can't make a long stand against him with this troops, do you?
It may hold him off for a while, the tricky thing is to know when it's time for retreat and how to do it.
Delay however is also important in this scenario, better to delay him than to let him move freely through the countryside.
What i would do as the allies in this situation is to bombard the unit in Treviers, combined with air strikes and once this position is softed up try to get that hex, bring some armour in and attack the artillery brigade, which will without doubt retreat and suffer heavy casualties. Once your line is without artillery support the only option is retreat.

Edit: Just to let you know what might expect you. And certainly you can only work with the units at hand and often there may be no better solution. Don't be afraid, the area south of Omaha receives plenty reinforcements over time. So go on and delay him, well done.

[General Staff]

Telumar- absolutely agreed. Looking at 30 Mobile Brigade's arty it includes mortars with range 4. I'd have stacked this with the unit to the SW where it can still support everyone and have benefit of infantry in hex. Unless I' missing something I can't see.

The whole scenario is really one big fighting, delaying, withdrawal action. You can't hope to hold for ever. At the end of the day though, you just need to hold them away from your main objectives for 12/13 turns and you're 25% there already.

[Veers]

The company in reserve and the battery are "defending" as well. Is this any good? Should the reserve company be in "tactical reserve"?

If you want the reserve company to respond to the battles happening in the line ahead of him, you would want it in tac reserve, if you're looking to have him form the first piece of your new line, when your front is beaten, then you want him dug in. Reversing that prinicpal, you probably do not want the Arty racing forward to join the battle, so you would want it dug-in, as you have it, rather than on tac support.

[To the other vets: I know it's only been a few hours, but I can't sleep. Both my tournament games are such nail bitters. :laugh:]

[General Staff]

The company in reserve and the battery are "defending" as well. Is this any good? Should the reserve company be in "tactical reserve"?
Agree with Veers here. I rarely use TR and not in this scenario. And probably now generally much less given the new MRPB rating in TOAWIII. Used to be you could spring a TR 'trap' that could burn up your opponent's entire turn in one attack. Now it's MRPB dependent, and in this scenario it's 3, meaning no battle will last longer than 3 rounds. So if it's not on TR it should be dug in.

The ideal TR unit is an armor unit sitting in 'safe', 'hidden' terrain- bocage, trees, urban- behind an infantry unit (or combined arms stacks, say infantry and some SP guns) well dug in with arty support facing an attack from infantry- obviously not dug in since they're attacking- from an open hex. That's the baseline and work up from there. I think I've used once so far in my game.

[Heldenkaiser]

Here's what happened ... the entire force was pushed back from the river and is now sitting all over the place, spread out in company packets in the bocage and reorganizing. It seems they will not respond to any orders while in this mindset. I can't even dig 'em in. :nervous:

So how will these reorganizers respond when being attacked again, as they are certain to be? Will they just yield more ground and reorganize some more? :surprise:

Thanks!

[Telumar]

Here's what happened ... the entire force was pushed back from the river and is now sitting all over the place, spread out in company packets in the bocage and reorganizing. It seems they will not respond to any orders while in this mindset. I can't even dig 'em in. :nervous:

So how will these reorganizers respond when being attacked again, as they are certain to be? Will they just yield more ground and reorganize some more? :surprise:

Thanks!

Sad to hear..how did he do it? Just frontal assaults or a bit more elegant? Anyway, those retreaters are doomed. The bocage gives them some decent defence bonus, but they will probably be overrun, retreat before combat, evaporation etc.
Maybe your opponent has to detach some troops to give your guys a final blow, at least one 'good', or let's say not so bad, news.
Just to have clearness: They have a red or an orange bar on their counter, they have no retreated status?

[Heldenkaiser]

Sad to hear..how did he do it? Just frontal assaults or a bit more elegant?

Let's say it this way ... they parted like the water under the ship's bow. The Allies came and my boys ran ... and the entire *formation* has suffered and is now sitting reorganizing, even those units, I believe, that were not themselves attacked. :OHNO:

Just to have clearness: They have a red or an orange bar on their counter, they have no retreated status?

An orange bar. The status window says "reorganizing".

[General Staff]

Here's what happened ... the entire force was pushed back from the river and is now sitting all over the place, spread out in company packets in the bocage and reorganizing. It seems they will not respond to any orders while in this mindset. I can't even dig 'em in. :nervous:

So how will these reorganizers respond when being attacked again, as they are certain to be? Will they just yield more ground and reorganize some more? :surprise:
Don't forget- there's bookkeeping between you and the next turn, and your units may recover from reorg then. If attacked, they will defend, though if in reorg perhaps not as well as if recovered.

[Telumar]

Okay, then there is nothing you can do with your Kampfgruppe. They are lost. He will attack them again on his next round with some mobbing up troops, so they probably won't come out of the reorganisation status. How is the situation south of your Kampfgruppe towards St.Lo and Torigny? And overall situation? Where is your file you received from your opponent?

Verdammte Scheisse, still no toaw3 to open these save files. No censorship for german curses..:laugh:

Edit: Ah GenStaff posted simultaneously.

Edit2:
It may hold him off for a while, the tricky thing is to know when it's time for retreat and how to do it.
It seems this decision has been made for you by your opponent ;)

Edit3: Forgot that the sav is in the other thread...