Marshal Zukov vs. Heldenkaiser [Archive]

Heldenkaiser

21 Jul 06, 13:13

Well, I did retake all the bridges that I attacked--Pegasus, and the two over the Douve. Unfortunately, I had to gather so many units to make sure of it, it also ended my turn after a single combat round, so I couldn't blow the bridges right away. But blew everything else--mostly over the Merderet. :halo:

Otherwise I broke down everything I could to create at least a first line from infantry companies and 88 pieces and also to surround the Paras east of Pegasus. Between Bayeux and Caen there is not much I could do, as he is already in the open ... just trying to stem the tide for a single turn, maybe. In the other sectors I am more confident, but Bayeux will probably fall real soon. :nervous:

My coastal arty inflicted 75% damage on the USS Nevada. :laugh:

In all honesty the extent of the Allied advance in a single turn was a real shock to me. :eek:

Veers

21 Jul 06, 13:27

General Staff

21 Jul 06, 13:41

T1, and it seems to me my Allied friend already has me bagged ... Some of the good advice provided here no longer works, such as "fight very hard for Bayeux, preferably on the ridges NE" or "blow the bridge at 39,28", "fight for Carentan north of the river Douve". :surprise:

And this scenario is overwhelming ...
Actually you're in a better position than some. First you can blow all the bridges over the Merderet and then you can hunt down and attrite the paras on the west side. If you put your para arty in Carentan and split into 2, you can use one half against each of the US paras holding the bridges north of Carentan and over the Taute. The arty should support ground attacks going in at limited attack, minimize losses and units should be broken down into 3s. Use a different piece each round.

Omaha is better than most. Just form a line in the bocage and site arty for maximum support.

Bayeux. You'll need armor- maybe 1/22 Pz and some Assault Guns to go with infantry and 88s to hold out in the gap here in open country. The 21 Pz Engineers might be able to help you dig in here. Also some armour around Creully and on the hills south.

Near Caen you can defend on the ridge north and north west. I'd even defend 80,34 and 81,34 using engineers to help dig and with some 88s to help with a decent chance to retake Pegasus from Benouville using a piece of 2/22 Pz and heavy direct arty. And you can start attacking 83,37 round 1 with a piece of the PzGs if you get your 155 Arty Bns to 83,38 to first support attacks on here and Pegasus in indirect mode (on Tactical Reserve) and when their time comes in direct support.

With this in mind I'd break the unit in Benouville into 3 and start limited attack at minimize losses on Pegasus round 1 too with indirect arty support- it may be costly but given urgency the unit is expendable and it will drain their supply- the Pzs can give them the coup de grace when they get there and direct fire support is available.

Heldenkaiser

21 Jul 06, 14:13

If the tip was correct, this should show the end of my T1. :smoke:

Veers

21 Jul 06, 14:28

If the tip was correct, this should show the end of my T1. :smoke:
Of course it worked. Well, looks like all you haev to do is hope you retain those bridges next turn, so you can blow 'em. :)

Heldenkaiser

21 Jul 06, 14:51

Of course it worked.

Sorry! I didn't mistrust your word, I mistrust my technical ability. :o

General Staff

21 Jul 06, 16:24

Sorry! I didn't mistrust your word, I mistrust my technical ability. :o
A few pointers/comments. I don't mean to be unnecessarily harsh but it's far easier to learn from mistakes, and I think it helps all new players.

1) You need to blow the bridges. Pegasus, Taute, Douve.
2) I assume the coastal guns in mobile took shots at Allied Naval. If they don't/didn't best to put on Tactical Reserve.
3) Assault guns and armor are always best stacked with infantry.
4) I'd be very worried about the Bayeux Gap NE of the city. It could have used some armor to stiffen resistance, or at least 88s.
5) Benouville has a lot of eggs in one basket. Like all 21 Pz's tanks. Another reason I like to break them down.
6) Routed units around Benouville should maybe be on Minimize Losses so they retreat at first sign of combat. Routed units should really be considered refugees until they recover. There are instances like 33,19 where there's no way out and they might as well go down in a blaze of glory.
7) There's a big gap at 75,34 which could get exploited.
8) Some units look like they got missed. Those in Periers, where the arty could be real useful north.
9) If you have arty with no MPs at the end of the turn and it's within range to support, put it on Tactical Reserve and it will help attacked units. For instance none of the 4 arty units in rear of Omaha are going to help anyone since they're mobile.
10) I'm not sure I'd bother fortifying North Caen. Either hold the ridge line north of the city or pull back behind the river. Once they've taken the ridge, you're really looking to defend Bourgebus Ridge and this is best done behind the Orne with all bridges blown.

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

22 Jul 06, 01:51

A few pointers/comments. I don't mean to be unnecessarily harsh but it's far easier to learn from mistakes, and I think it helps all new players.

Absolutely. I am hear to learn. Remember, this is my first ever PBEM turn at this scale (I did 5 turns of France 40, with the smallest counters being divisions), so I have really no clue what I am doing. :surprise:

1) You need to blow the bridges. Pegasus, Taute, Douve.

Yes! But first I had to retake them, and since I needed to gather a lot of force to make sure of it, it burnt my entire turn. I hope I still hold them on T2 and can blow them then. I blew all that I could (over the Dove and Merderet).

2) I assume the coastal guns in mobile took shots at Allied Naval. If they don't/didn't best to put on Tactical Reserve.

They did. Damaged some ships to 20-25% and USS Nevada to 75%, so it seemed worthwhile, to reduce the enemy heavy guns.

3) Assault guns and armor are always best stacked with infantry.

Copy that!

4) I'd be very worried about the Bayeux Gap NE of the city. It could have used some armor to stiffen resistance, or at least 88s.

I am very worried too, but this is the area where I really didn't have much choice and the priority was to get a line at all with the little force I had there. :nervous:

5) Benouville has a lot of eggs in one basket. Like all 21 Pz's tanks. Another reason I like to break them down.

I see. I had to find enough force for the Pegasus bridge counterattack and scapped together whatever was near.

6) Routed units around Benouville should maybe be on Minimize Losses so they retreat at first sign of combat.

Is there a difference of opinion here? IRCC, the tutorial (?) emphasized that routers should be in ignore losses mode in a defensive scenario so they don't give more ground ... :rolleyes:

7) There's a big gap at 75,34 which could get exploited.

Another that I just didn't have the force to close. Also, an artillery unit got stuck there after being hit on disengaging from the front - and I believe I read somewhere that artillery and HQs aren't subject to disengagement penalties! Seems they are ...
Anyway, there is an engineer company with some AT guns at 76,36 - doesn't that close the gap?

8) Some units look like they got missed. Those in Periers, where the arty could be real useful north.

Didn't know what to do with them ... the arty and HQ didn't seem to belong to anyone, and should they really go in without teeth arms? :surprise:

9) If you have arty with no MPs at the end of the turn and it's within range to support, put it on Tactical Reserve and it will help attacked units. For instance none of the 4 arty units in rear of Omaha are going to help anyone since they're mobile.

I messed that one up it seems! I dug them in, then found they could *still* fire, so I fired them - but it seems firing makes artillery mobile again? Very confusing ... :OHNO:

10) I'm not sure I'd bother fortifying North Caen. Either hold the ridge line north of the city or pull back behind the river. Once they've taken the ridge, you're really looking to defend Bourgebus Ridge and this is best done behind the Orne with all bridges blown.

"Fight very hard for Caen" or something like that ... guess that made me think I needed a second line in the city. But I see, the river line is better.

Very helpful! Thanks. :smoke:

General Staff

22 Jul 06, 05:50

1) Yes! But first I had to retake them, and since I needed to gather a lot of force to make sure of it, it burnt my entire turn. I hope I still hold them on T2 and can blow them then. I blew all that I could (over the Dove and Merderet).

2) I see. I had to find enough force for the Pegasus bridge counterattack and scapped together whatever was near.

3) Is there a difference of opinion here? IRCC, the tutorial (?) emphasized that routers should be in ignore losses mode in a defensive scenario so they don't give more ground ... :rolleyes:

4) Another that I just didn't have the force to close. Also, an artillery unit got stuck there after being hit on disengaging from the front - and I believe I read somewhere that artillery and HQs aren't subject to disengagement penalties! Seems they are ...

5) Didn't know what to do with them ... the arty and HQ didn't seem to belong to anyone, and should they really go in without teeth arms? :surprise:

6) I messed that one up it seems! I dug them in, then found they could *still* fire, so I fired them - but it seems firing makes artillery mobile again? Very confusing ...

Yes to clear up some of the issues here.

1) I think the reason you burnt up your entire turn, maybe with just one round, is because you dug the guns at Omaha in then fired them in Direct mode. Since digging them in takes them down to 0 MPs remaining, any attacks are going to go in at that point- i.e. at the 100% mark or guaranteed to end your turn since it's the last combat round. Likewise with the Coastal Guns, which is why I suggested using only those 'dug out' (i.e. mobile now and with 0 MPs they can never dig in again anyway) to take a shot at Allied Naval but at the END of your turn only. I'd suggest reading up on arty in the tutorials. It certainly mentions it and how it works in Kasserine 43. Also search the forums at SZO- this is a perennial topic, along with combat rounds, that new players seem to have the most difficulty grasping. Or at least I know I did.

2) It's hard to judge what you need. Over time you get a feel for this. Also as you come to understand the combat rounds system you realize it's better to use Limited Attacks at Minimize Losses most of the time. And with a broken down piece of a unit to minimize casualties. This has a number of benefits:

a) It will only use one round.
b) The detailed Combat Report will detail enemy composition, allowing you to adjust for the second round. This is crucial, a little like flying a plane- make a small correction, view results, adjust, continue.
c) When used in combination with Direct Arty, these tactics, especially against infantry or softer targets, are usually the best way to go. Over time and several rounds of this, the arty will undig units and force them into the open. Each round will sap 10% of enemy supply. If you're down to your last rounds and really need the hex launch an all-out assault at the end of your turn.

3) Somewhat scenario-dependent. If you've a routed unit in the Fuhrerbunker in 1945 Berlin, what have you got to lose? Likewise I've indicated some situations in some of the games here where you're trapped and might as well go out in a blaze of glory. But in this scenario, you need all the units you can get to form lines, so any chance you can get routed units out to recover and rebuild is useful IMO.

4) Arty/HQ disengagement. Don't forget they have to move back to a friendly unit. This is probably why you're seeing hits here. Take a look at Section 10.4.10 in the manual.

5) HQs provide some help to adjacent units in combat plus boost supply uptake by 50% to adjacent units also. And the arty unit is high quality so it could make the difference between success or failure in retaking bridges at Carentan if used as Direct Fire Support. And both can help with disengagement.

6) Covered in 1.

I'm sure this covers items confusing to other new players as well. Hope it helps.

Heldenkaiser

22 Jul 06, 08:37

Hope it helps.

Very much so! I appreciate your patience. :)

Heldenkaiser

22 Jul 06, 13:11

Haven't looked at it yet ... should I wait for comments before I do my turn, or is better for learning to have you analyze my mistakes afterwards? :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

22 Jul 06, 13:56

Looked at the replay now ... how absolutely depressing. Everyone is just running before the Allied sledgehammer without offering any resistance. Isn't it those tiny units that just retreat instead of fighting? :OHNO:

General Staff

22 Jul 06, 16:41

Haven't looked at it yet ... should I wait for comments before I do my turn, or is better for learning to have you analyze my mistakes afterwards? :rolleyes:
A few pointers and this doesn't look too bad.

Looks like you'll get a chance to blow those bridges. Don't forget now. There's been a few times I thought it was so obvious I forgot to do it.
In bocage, infantry will do nicely thankyou if issued with panzerfausts. That's Rifle AT and SMG AT Squads. I don't leave any armor/AT in bocage except in towns. In urban, hills and most everywhere else, try and form combined arms stacks- some infantry, some armor or AT guns. Favor tanks with infantry in open terrain or behind rivers. AT guns over tanks in other terrain. That's if you have them.
You need to have all units except HQs/Arty broken down to cover the front. The paras at Carentan for instance. And the para arty is better in 37,31- that way it can support 39,28 too, but it won't support anything in mobile mode. Dig it in.
Get everything in Benouville onto the bridge then blow it.
Keep arty out of the front line and dug in to support on the Allied turn. Site as well as possible for maximum advantage to most # of units.
Try and get a line on Periers Ridge and along to Bretteville. If you can't abandon North Caen and pull back behind the river in as slow a fighting withdrawal as you can.
Bayeux Gap and NE-E is going to need the SS armor/AT to stop the CW armor here. Again combined arms stacks.
Units at Briquebec are a waste. They are needed east. You've no slack for reserves really. A reserve here is a hard hit/routed/reorganized unit recovering in a rear area until needed.
Keep focussed on denying him his objectives.

Hope this helps.

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 08:11

You mentioned under the Special Units thread you'd posted 2 battalions to guard rivers that couldn't be crossed anyway. Can you point to where? Hex locations? I can then take and look and get back to you here.

Heldenkaiser

23 Jul 06, 08:14

This is in the turn that I am just doing. I will post it here once it's finished - another 20 min maybe?

I fortified the line of the Douve from St. Saveur to Carentan. The hex locations are 26,26 to 31,29 in a straight NW to SE line. I guess I shouldn't have bothered? Thanks. :rolleyes:

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 08:36

I fortified the line of the Douve from St. Saveur to Carentan. The hex locations are 26,26 to 31,29 in a straight NW to SE line. I guess I shouldn't have bothered? Thanks. :rolleyes:
You need to fortify below the bridges, whether blown or not. You'll note that where there is a bridge the terrain is always marsh, NOT flooded marsh. That's a deliberate scenario design decision, so engineer units can get into the hex to repair the bridge.

So you need to defend 25,26- just this one hex here as he can't go through flooded marsh to your left- and 27,27 + 28,27 + 29,28 (don't bother with 29,27- it's open, bocage is far better and he can't outflank you on your right because that's flooded marsh).

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

23 Jul 06, 09:17

OK here is my second turn completed. I tried to utilize all the advice from General Staff and get a good combined arms teams line up everywhere. Overall I think it looks more stable now, although I am concerned about N and just E of Bayeux where the line is in the open, as well as NE of Isigny where I have nothing much at all. 30 mob Bde is forming a defensive position behind the Aure as a new left anchor of the line here, but reinforcements are needed - I hope to get them from west of the Vire next turn. I am also not happy about the bulges on the ridges NW of Bretteville and NNW of Caen, but retreating from there, what with disengagement penalties and losing entrenched status and all, seemed more of a risk than staying ... was I mistaken?

I blew all bridges as planned and I also did manage to get six (!) rounds of combat against the Paras east of Pegasus, eliminating a two-battalion stack in the process.

Two questions--

1) I get hit a lot by aircraft in combat rounds - without movement that is. I believe this is enemy plains of combat support? Anything I can do about it? Getting more combat rounds per turn, then, means suffering more air attacks ...

2) Should I opt for a every-hex or an every-other-hex defense (provided I have the choice)?

Thanks! :)

Telumar

23 Jul 06, 09:57

I blew all bridges as planned and I also did manage to get six (!) rounds of combat against the Paras east of Pegasus, eliminating a two-battalion stack in the process.

Yeah! Let them pay! :clap: Well done.

Two questions--

1) I get hit a lot by aircraft in combat rounds - without movement that is. I believe this is enemy plains of combat support? Anything I can do about it? Getting more combat rounds per turn, then, means suffering more air attacks ...

Every static unit is also subject to interdiction strikes. They are resolved before your combat round begins. Enemy planes in combat support do not carry out interdiction strikes, they serve as a 'air artillery', supporting every combat within range, just like artillery in entrenched or reserve mode or they may also be assigned to one single combat as direct support.
What can you do? Split AA units and cover the most important positions, especially artillery - it can be digged out by an interdiction strike and you would lose its fire support.
If getting more combat rouns means suffering more air attacks i can't say, maybe GenStaff?

2) Should I opt for a every-hex or an every-other-hex defense (provided I have the choice)?

Thanks! :)

Hmm. Situation dependent. A net of 'Zone of controls' is very usefull to delay the enemy if you can't man a line. Have a look at this:
http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/uploads/articles/heat/catchall.jpg

from this article: http://toaw.xtreme-gamer.com/?p=38&page=2

I think if you want to stop him, you need a continous line. One thing what i often do and did in this scenario is to occupy the two hilly hexes on each side of a river while leaving the river hex unoccupied, maybe putting a 'stop' unit two hexes further down the river. If the enemy is silly enough to advance along the river you have an opportunity to set up a flank attack against him, defending at 70% strength from a river hex.:devil: However, this is risky and don't make plans taking into regard the enemy's dumbness.

EDIT: I am not sure of the 70% defending value on a river. The manual tells just that the attacker is penalized when attacking from a river hex. I will let you know as soon as i know more.

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9088/hillsriverjs1.png

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 10:37

1) I get hit a lot by aircraft in combat rounds - without movement that is. I believe this is enemy plains of combat support? Anything I can do about it? Getting more combat rounds per turn, then, means suffering more air attacks ...

2) Should I opt for a every-hex or an every-other-hex defense (provided I have the choice)?

1) Agree with Telumar. This is interdiction not CS. Doesn't matter whether you move or not. More combat rounds unfortunately does mean more interdiction, but there is a bright side- eventually planes and pilots and their trigger fingers get tired and they all need to rest. It's probably better in a way to do more rounds in your turn because the Allied player has no control over his planes then and can't decide he wants to take particular units of the line and rest them. Also, you're going to get it anyway, so it evens out in the long run.
2) Every hex if you can afford it but that's not really practical here except maybe N-NW of Caen. The main problem is their recce units which can slip through gaps almost unscathed and with minimal MP penalties. Keep an eye on these and try to eliminate gaps where these lads are lurking. Otherwise as Telumar says, use terrain to your advantage- maybe read up on MP costs per terrain type.

Hope this helps.

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 10:54

I blew all bridges as planned and I also did manage to get six (!) rounds of combat against the Paras east of Pegasus, eliminating a two-battalion stack in the process.
BTW, I forgot to say that's brilliant! 6 rounds is very good and you've obviously got a real handle on the Combat Rounds System. Getting rid of 2 Para Battalions is also a nice day's work.

Care to explain how you got a 'handle' on Combat Rounds for other new players? Maybe in the Combat Rounds thread? It's one of those things I've known now for so long I struggle to explain it to others, rather like learning to ride a bicycle. Your help I think would be invaluable here from one new player to others.

Veers

23 Jul 06, 11:05

defending at 70% strength from a river hex.

Is this true? So defending a river hex is just dumb? (All these years, of course, all those years I didn't know to defend behind the river, but even now I didn't know THIS)

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 11:56

Overall I think it looks more stable now, although I am concerned about N and just E of Bayeux where the line is in the open, as well as NE of Isigny where I have nothing much at all. 30 mob Bde is forming a defensive position behind the Aure as a new left anchor of the line here, but reinforcements are needed - I hope to get them from west of the Vire next turn. I am also not happy about the bulges on the ridges NW of Bretteville and NNW of Caen, but retreating from there, what with disengagement penalties and losing entrenched status and all, seemed more of a risk than staying ... was I mistaken?
Just looked over the SAV file.

I think you're doing a great job against the paras, but I'd pull 1/22 Pz and 1/125 PzG to trry to deal with the Periers Ridge situation- critical now and I think a mistake to pull back from here. This is now going to be difficult, maybe impossible to retake.

Also a fair few units not dug in- SS particularly and wondering why not.

Watch out for an engineer crossing of the Orne River at 85,33 to provide supplies and reinforcements to paras.

Elsewhere, Omaha, Utah, looks great. Reminds me- LoL- of Anzio.

If you can destroy Paras and retake Periers Ridge you've got a sure winner here I think.

Keep it up!

Heldenkaiser

23 Jul 06, 12:09

I think you're doing a great job against the paras, but I'd pull 1/22 Pz and 1/125 PzG to trry to deal with the Periers Ridge situation- critical now and I think a mistake to pull back from here. This is now going to be difficult, maybe impossible to retake.

Hm, if you mean around 80,36, I did not exactly pull back from there--they pushed me back and I just had the force to contain as best I could, not to counterattack.

Also a fair few units not dug in- SS particularly and wondering why not.

There's a good question! Guess I put them there, not knowing whether to leave them or maybe counterattack, then forgot to dig them in. :OHNO:

A LOT to learn. :surprise:

Veers

23 Jul 06, 12:16

Always rechecking things is a must. I must pass over every unit I have in a scenario half a doxen times before I end my turn...

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 12:22

Hm, if you mean around 80,36, I did not exactly pull back from there--they pushed me back and I just had the force to contain as best I could, not to counterattack.
I wouldn't try an attack on a unit of this size dug in as it is. If you're lucky you might draw him off the ridge and be able to surround and smother/attrite him away. He may go for 79,37 and try to get in your rear. In which case seal the line on Periers Ridge and just surround and kill it as you're doing with the paras.

But this unit is a threat to your whole Bayeux-Caen line if not dealt with.

Also 83,51- looks like you forgot to move it. I found it because it's an ideal unit for moving through enemy ZOCs with its high recce value and I thought you could use it to get behind here to 80,35. Always worth checking recent reinforcements to make sure you've got everything you're entitled to. If I had a $ for every time I've made this mistake...

Heldenkaiser

23 Jul 06, 13:51

BTW, I forgot to say that's brilliant! 6 rounds is very good and you've obviously got a real handle on the Combat Rounds System. Getting rid of 2 Para Battalions is also a nice day's work.

Care to explain how you got a 'handle' on Combat Rounds for other new players?

Now that I come to think about, it's been only 5 rounds. I saw 90%, 80%, 70%, 60% remaining, and then I didn't have anything left to do so I closed it without any more combat. :rolleyes:

Also I can't really take credit for it, because it was just an exercise in employing your little step-by-step combat pattern on a limited field - against the Paras east of Pegasus. First I attacked only with the units already in contact, then again with some of them, then with some which had moved a single hex, then with the rest, is all. I wouldn't know how to do it all over the field, nor in a more complex combat situation. In fact, this is what puzzles me most - how do you keep track of your multi-stage combats on different parts of the field in a scenario this size? :surprise:

Telumar

23 Jul 06, 17:36

Is this true? So defending a river hex is just dumb? (All these years, of course, all those years I didn't know to defend behind the river, but even now I didn't know THIS)

Okay Veers, i am not sure about this anymore. I posted this question over at the Matrix site in the War room. Still waiting for an official answer from Jamiam. As it looks now, Kraut and Chuck think that the defender is not penalized on a river hex. Also the manual says nothing about the defender on a river hex.

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 17:51

Okay Veers, i am not sure about this anymore. I posted this question over at the Matrix site in the War room. Still waiting for an official answer from Jamiam. As it looks now, Kraut and Chuck think that the defender is not penalized on a river hex. Also the manual says nothing about the defender on a river hex.
I don't think the defender is penalized on a river hex either. All the material only speaks to Attacker x 0.7.

Veers

23 Jul 06, 18:57

Thank goodness. That would blow chunks.

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 06:07

No idea how bad it is! I am at work and can't look at the file ... :nervous:

General Staff

24 Jul 06, 13:31

Utah. Great.

Omaha. I'd start pulling back to below the Aure and put units in bocage in the way of those that have already got across. Use arty or HQs to help disengage. Blow what bridges you can and maybe try to offer an escape route for routed units- maybe leave something dug in in 49,28 for example- SP Guns are valuable. I'd pull 2/914 and the 88s from 39,29 to help here.

N/NW of Bayeux looks a little shaky and you could probably use some assets here plus start digging secondary lines in preparation for when Bayeux falls. North of Carpiquet looks shaky too and I'd reinforce here as well. Periers Ridge looks on its last legs and you should try and get your units out of the pocket forming north. I'd attack 76,35 with Direct Arty to clear them out and be able to get out more easily.

East of Pegasus I think there's too much of 21 Pz Div which is needed west of the river. I'd just leave the units in 84,34 to help out and move 1/22 Pz and the other 2 pieces of 2/22 Pz west. Also 2/192 PzG and 803 Eng Bn. Let 346 Inf Din arrived in 91,37 take over here. Once 346 is in position to take over next turn I'd also move 2/125 PzG west.

Hope this helps. I think you're still on track for a win.

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 13:34

.... it's rather bad, isn't it?

Are we sure we are doing this right, with all those battalions broken down to companies? They always seem to retreat even without serious attack, or even to evaporate in spite of having a retreat route open. :OHNO:

I also have an interdiction level of 16%, which seems rather high. Is this kosher? :rolleyes:

On the positive side, in spite of my SS not being entrenched on the plains east of Bayeux (which made me rather nervous this night even in my sleep!) he didn't attack them at all, but rather concentrated his attacks on the entrenched units on the ridges at Bretteville, which seems odd ... what's he up to? :surprise:

Veers

24 Jul 06, 13:41

General Staff

24 Jul 06, 13:48

1) The problem is the frontage to cover, and really the only way to do this is to break units down. See the thread on Special Units and my last post on recce units. You can try breaking down into 2s instead of 3s and otherwise experiment, maybe in hotseat, but then I think you lose the defence in depth.

2) 16% would indicate he's got his heavy bombers on interdiction, which is against a house rule that they can't be used for interdiction. I'm under 16% as well but Elmer can't read, so I have to put up with it. I'm sure it's an innocent mistake, but it's a crippling one. I'd suggest you check with your opponent and- if it's the case- both of you agree to refer this to Heinz57 since he's the co-ordinator to see what can be done. Options are:

a) You get an automatic OV. A bit harsh given it's a new player tournament.
b) You just take the bombers off interdiction and continue.
c) You agree to start over.

3) I think he's a very cautious player, and it's maybe going to lose him the game.

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 14:03

2) 16% would indicate he's got his heavy bombers on interdiction, which is against a house rule that they can't be used for interdiction. I'm under 16% as well but Elmer can't read, so I have to put up with it. I'm sure it's an innocent mistake, but it's a crippling one. I'd suggest you check with your opponent and- if it's the case- both of you agree to refer this to Heinz57 since he's the co-ordinator to see what can be done. Options are:

a) You get an automatic OV. A bit harsh given it's a new player tournament.
b) You just take the bombers off interdiction and continue.
c) You agree to start over.

Thanks! I asked him about it. No reply yet.

No way I am taking a victory for this. Nor is starting over very attractive IMO. (b) will do fine.

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 14:55

General Staff

24 Jul 06, 15:55

Steve says:

When I look at the "do not send" file I see that Heavy 9/ AF and Hvy 9/ AF are set at combat support (see attached graphic file). I thought those were the two hvy bombers referred to in the house rule. All of the rest of my planes are currently set at interdication (at ignore losses).

If I have made a mistake somehow, I certainly would concede to you a significant/major/decisive victory to you. I'm flexible as to what you'd like to do.

And these are his settings (I reduced the size of the graphics):

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/Temp/air%20settings.gif

Could it be Bomber Command ("Bmd Cmd") that rather shouldn't be on interdiction? I guess these are Air Marshal Harris' boys in light blue ... :surprise:
The bombers he's got on CS are the right ones. Notice also they're in their own formation.

Actually I tested this and it seems with the 2 units in Q interdiction does shows these kind of #s. I got 11% with the 2 heavies on CS and all else on Interdiction.

I suspect what's happening is the # is based on previous turn's results. So at start you show only 4%, as results roll in it goes up. Turn 2 I showed 11% Turn 3 9%. I've the SAL file with all set up to go if you want to test yourself.

I'd just respond and say some of your teammates questioned the high value and wondered whether this might be the cause. On testing they found it really is that bad.

Telumar

24 Jul 06, 16:07

Played this once versus Chowee in CoW and it was also very high, 16% interdiction occured on several turns. As it seems your opponent has assigned missions to his entire air force, which will exhaust them all over time and as he hasn't put some on rest as a reserve there may be coming turns with less interdiction in mid game. This is when you have a decent amount of reinforcements at hand to build stronger lines, so you can move a bit more freely which will help you to stop him finally.

Is he fearing the SS? :laugh: Maybe you can use this to your advantage at some time in the game..

Heinz57

24 Jul 06, 16:16

Just a quick note that the above screen shots are confirmed to the extent that I can confirm it. He's effectively dedicated everything to Interdiction except the two Heavy Bombers. This explains some of the lack of over-runs.

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 17:22

Just what does 16% interdiction mean? That I get hit on every sixth move? Every sixth hex? Thanks. :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

24 Jul 06, 17:24

Utah. Great.
I'd attack 76,35 with Direct Arty to clear them out and be able to get out more easily.

What exactly do you mean by that - direct arty? Thanks. :)

General Staff

24 Jul 06, 17:42

What exactly do you mean by that - direct arty? Thanks. :)
I'd try Limited Attack-Minimize Losses with 1/Eng/21 Pz and 1/1/192 PzG for a flank attack. Direct fire arty against the hex too from 77,37. If the units in 76,35 retreat it will widen the gap allowing you to get out with less of a disengagement penalty. You could also direct fire from North Caen. And set arty units in 77,36 on TR- when adjacent they don't fire they assault and you don't want your lads hauling their 155mms across no man's land.

Hope this helps.

Telumar

24 Jul 06, 17:51

Just what does 16% interdiction mean? That I get hit on every sixth move? Every sixth hex? Thanks. :rolleyes:
See the manual 9.1.4 - Air superiority and Interdiction . The interdiction percentage in the air report isn't used in the game, just for your planning.

Now, where do i have the manual from? A PBEM opponent sent it to me..still no toaw3.

General Staff

24 Jul 06, 18:04

Just what does 16% interdiction mean? That I get hit on every sixth move? Every sixth hex? Thanks. :rolleyes:
It doesn't specify in the manual, other than to say it's a 'general' guide.

Anecdotally, and from my own game and I've mentioned this before, it means you can stick your cigarette out of your bunker and it will always get lit. I've got to admit I'm actually a little dazed by it all.

It seems 16% results in a unit moving on a road getting hit about every 3 hexes. I've had units move 2 hexes and get hit twice. I've had units just disappear. Or cavort in the open when they'd been well dug in before. I suppose we can take some small comfort that it's in some ways an accurate recreation of how it was on the day.

The good news in my game is that interdiction is down to 3% this turn. I guess those pilots, planes and trigger fingers eventually need a rest.

Heldenkaiser

25 Jul 06, 06:17

Unfortunately, it also describes my experience pretty well. A drag-n-drop over even a medium distance never works without being strafed from the air at least once. It may be 3-4 times as well; at least once it was 6 times. Going hex by hex, sometimes I can make it without damage, but the chance for that is not quite 50/50. An infantry company moving any appreciable distance on a road will more often than not arrive at its destination in "retreated" status. :upset:

And I get hit 10-20 times in each combat resolution round too. Altogether, all this adds up to several hundred (!) sorties flown by enemy air forces in each turn. I hope it wears them out as quickly as it should, in all fairness. :angry:

But yes, it probably was that way for the Germans back then.

Heldenkaiser

25 Jul 06, 06:33

General Staff

25 Jul 06, 07:44

And I get hit 10-20 times in each combat resolution round too.
Yes, it's awfully depressing waiting for your 2 or so attacks to go in and wondering how many Allied air strikes you've got to put up with until then.

I put up a thread on interdiction and possible ways to alleviate it. Please add any comments as you get...errr...more experience.;)

Heldenkaiser

25 Jul 06, 11:04

Well, here's what I did .... mostly trying to stiffen the defence where it was cracking and establishing second lines. Clearing out the enemy from 76,35 looked hopeless even after heavy artillery preparation so I cancelled the effort and tried to extract what I could from the bulge north of there, but suffered heavily. Limited attacks, minimize losses in some places, but they were all very costly (in one case 100% casualties, often 25-30%) ... doesn't look very "mininmal" to me. :OHNO:

Interdiction remains horrible. I even suffered 9 or 10 attacks simply on closing my turn after three rounds WITHOUT combat. :angry:

Well, any of the veterans care to comment on my feeble efforts? :shy:

General Staff

25 Jul 06, 13:41

Clearing out the enemy from 76,35 looked hopeless even after heavy artillery preparation...
Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'heavy artillery preparation'? It might help figure out what went wrong here.

Heldenkaiser

25 Jul 06, 14:05

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'heavy artillery preparation'?

As advised, I directed the direct fire of three batteries against that hex. Then I attacked from the NE with limited attack/minimize losses (they were not very minimal) to set the hex up for a flank bonus, but in spite of all this I couldn't get any better than "losses will be heavy, chance of success very poor" in the next round. :rolleyes:

Under these circumstances I didn't feel justified to order the attack. Should I have? :nervous:

General Staff

25 Jul 06, 14:16

As advised, I directed the direct fire of three batteries against that hex. Then I attacked from the NE with limited attack/minimize losses (they were not very minimal) to set the hex up for a flank bonus, but in spite of all this I couldn't get any better than "losses will be heavy, chance of success very poor" in the next round. :rolleyes:

Under these circumstances I didn't feel justified to order the attack. Should I have? :nervous:
The attacks should be simultaneous. Set up the ground attack first. Then add in the direct arty fire component so they all go in on the same round. Direct arty fire on its own is IMO pretty useless unless it's combined with a ground attack. The last time I recall ever using direct fire on its own was in an airfield attack near Stalingrad when I just happened to be in range. I'd suggest you check one of my turns in my Elmer game to see how I've set up these attacks- maybe Turn 2 Round 1. I think this is why your attacks are unsuccessful.

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

25 Jul 06, 14:21

Still misunderstood your advice it seems. :nervous:

Oh well, next time.

General Staff

25 Jul 06, 14:26

Well, any of the veterans care to comment on my feeble efforts?
I'd hardly call them feeble. Looks good with a few exceptions. First I'd start firing on Naval Assets with Coastal Arty but ONLY on your last round. The effects can be dramatic and any losses will reduce the crippling naval fire leveled at your boys. North of Utah you've 2 units in range, east of Sword 2 also. Aim for anything that says 'Heavy Naval' as a priority. Any hits will give the Allies a nasty shock.

At Utah I think the main thrust is towards Cherbourg, along the coast road and the road to Valognes. In fact I don't see much evidence of any attempt at all to head south from here. Given your opponent's timid approach, I'd look to hold the bridges between St Saveur to the Taute Bridge with Ostie units, and pull back the paras to start digging in to defend St Lo. Fortify towns on the way down- St Jean de Daye and Pont Hebert- but your first line of defence for St Lo should be in the bocage north starting at 45,37-47,38. I'd also scale down my presence in the St Saveur and east area given nothing has come through and the paras are still there by themselves. Parcel what you can spare north and/or south. Just leave a skirmish line and something decent in St Saveur itself.

Further east Omaha looks good. I'd call Grandcamp a write-off now though it's served its purpose- still doing it by the look of things. If you can pull the brave lads out next turn.

Bayeux. Looks good though I'd break 1/12 Pz down. Also in terms of combined arms, I consider recce units as armor, so I'd say recce and armor is a bit of a waste. And I hate seeing engineers in the front lines unless absolutely necessary- they're too valuable digging. When I do have to have them up at the HKL and after they've dug and are stacked with other infantry/mech, I usually put them on ML so they retreat quickly if attacked. The SS AA is useless for digging secondary lines, and with 88s their best use is AT not AA and stacked with infantry in combined arms stacks. I use 88s as an armor substitute for combined arms when armor isn't available.

70,37-70,40. Not sure what these boys are doing but I wouldn't build a second line here. Maybe further south in hills/woods. You may lose ground but the terrain is infinitely more defensible.

Caen. I'd try and regain the Periers Ridge line if I could. If not maybe fall back to Caen city and blow 82,37. East of Pegasus you could use a packet of armor and some arty to kill the paras.

Try and place HQs adjacent to your units (behind) to get combat and supply benefits.

Hope this helps.

General Staff

25 Jul 06, 14:28

Still misunderstood your advice it seems. :nervous:

Oh well, next time.
Don't worry. That's what this workshop is for. Keep asking the Qs. I think you've got the makings of a very good player.

Heldenkaiser

26 Jul 06, 04:16

Thanks for the advice. I will certainly shift right from St. Saveur & Carentan towards Saint-Lô.

First I'd start firing on Naval Assets with Coastal Arty but ONLY on your last round. The effects can be dramatic and any losses will reduce the crippling naval fire leveled at your boys. North of Utah you've 2 units in range, east of Sword 2 also. Aim for anything that says 'Heavy Naval' as a priority. Any hits will give the Allies a nasty shock.

Earlier the advice was that they should be in "tactical reserve". Can they be that, and at the same time fire, or will firing make them "mobile" again?

Bayeux. Looks good though I'd break 1/12 Pz down.

Yes, that was unintentional. I had them already dug in before I realized they were still bn. strength.

Also in terms of combined arms, I consider recce units as armor, so I'd say recce and armor is a bit of a waste.

I saw that too. I am still finding my way around the tactical unit icons of the era. I first took the recce for Panzergrenadiers, i.e. mot. infantry.

70,37-70,40. Not sure what these boys are doing but I wouldn't build a second line here. Maybe further south in hills/woods. You may lose ground but the terrain is infinitely more defensible.

Ah, my 19th-century background is showing. ;) I am used to wanting a second line right behind the first, one hex distant, so a penetration can be contained by ZOC's. I hate seeing the bad guys racing down the rear of my first line to encircle and eliminate it. :rolleyes:
Is that concept useless in this era?

Try and place HQs adjacent to your units (behind) to get combat and supply benefits.

I am trying, but there's so few of them. Does an HQ help only *own* units or can I just use it anywhere? Thanks. :)

Veers

26 Jul 06, 04:27

Okay...
Earlier the advice was that they should be in "tactical reserve". Can they be that, and at the same time fire, or will firing make them "mobile" again?
the idea would be to leave them in tac reserve until the round you expect to be your last, then you fire them. They will become mobile, and will therefore be in mobile status for your enemy's turn.

I am trying, but there's so few of them. Does an HQ help only *own* units or can I just use it anywhere? Thanks.

This depends. If you have an HQ selected, get its formation report. That will tell you what its support level is. If its support level is 'Force support' it will support anything with the same background colour as it. If it is on 'Army support' it will support anything with the same colour scheme. ie: A White on gray will help other white on grays, but not the blue/white on gray(the Ost units). On 'internal support' the HQ will only support those in its formation. If it is 'free support' It will help all those on your side (though I don't think there are any with this level of support in this scenario).

Ah, my 19th-century background is showing. I am used to wanting a second line right behind the first, one hex distant, so a penetration can be contained by ZOC's. I hate seeing the bad guys racing down the rear of my first line to encircle and eliminate it.
Is that concept useless in this era?

HAHA, I haven't actually looked at your latest turn, yet, so I don't know what GS is talkgin abotu, better to wait for hsi response. :laugh:

Heldenkaiser

26 Jul 06, 04:31

This depends. If you have an HQ selected, get its formation report. That will tell you what its support level is. If its support level is 'Force support' it will support anything with the same background colour as it. If it is on 'Army support' it will support anything with the same colour scheme. ie: A White on gray will help other white on grays, but not the blue/white on gray(the Ost units). On 'internal support' the HQ will only support those in its formation. If it is 'free support' It will help all those on your side (though I don't think there are any with this level of support in this scenario).

Thanks! Very helpful. Of course *now* I remember having read just that somewhere in the manual ... :o

HAHA, I haven't actually looked at your latest turn, yet, so I don't know what GS is talkgin abotu, better to wait for hsi response. :laugh:

Actually I haven't looked up the hex coordinates either (since I am at work right now) but my guess is that G.S. is referring to a second line of infantry cum armour companies sitting two hexes behind the ridgeline west of Caen smack on an open plain .... :o

General Staff

26 Jul 06, 04:54

1) Earlier the advice was that they should be in "tactical reserve". Can they be that, and at the same time fire, or will firing make them "mobile" again?

2) Ah, my 19th-century background is showing. ;) I am used to wanting a second line right behind the first, one hex distant, so a penetration can be contained by ZOC's. I hate seeing the bad guys racing down the rear of my first line to encircle and eliminate it. :rolleyes:
Is that concept useless in this era?

3)I am trying, but there's so few of them. Does an HQ help only *own* units or can I just use it anywhere?

1) It's a one shot deal. Don't do it until your LAST round. And they'll be in mobile so won't defend in your opponent's turn. It's a trade-off but seeing a Battleship go down is well worth it.

2) In an ideal world, best to have the second line right behind the first. And for exactly the reasons you mention, among others. But Normandy in 44 was hardly ideal in any sense of the word. Needs must and again a trade-off- better terrain for ground given. IMO and the Germans too on the day, worth it.

3) Veers has it dead right. There's a co-operation matrix in the manual somewhere.

Hope this helps.

General Staff

26 Jul 06, 08:24

my guess is that G.S. is referring to a second line of infantry cum armour companies sitting two hexes behind the ridgeline west of Caen smack on an open plain ....
A hole in one...

Heldenkaiser

26 Jul 06, 16:53

Didn't have a chance to look at it yet ... :nervous:

(BTW I must be the slowest player around ... my opponent always returns the file within 24 hours; sometimes the same night. Since it takes me several hours to complete my turn, I really don't manage such a turnover rate. :surprise:)

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 09:27

... Does anyone else encounter such messages? In my limited experience it doesn't have to mean anything - I am playing one other game and there my opponent is getting such messages when I just save the game, later resume it - but I am curious ... :rolleyes:

In any case, this looks really bad now, doesn't it? They rebuilt Pegasus bridge it appears and I have really strong enemy forces the wrong side of the river now. :OHNO: Should I try to counterattack against the bridge hex? Or build a second line on the bottleneck between the rivers W of Troarn?

Also, he *is* now moving W from Utah. All my units are just retreating before the Allied juggernaut as if they were armed with nothing but slings and stones. I don't seem to be able to stop him anywhere. :nervous:

Any advice? Aside from that given upon my last completed turn, which I will do my best to implement, if still possible? :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 09:27

Forgot to ask - is there any place where I can look up my own casualties so far, and enemy losses too, if possible? Thanks. :)

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 10:12

Forgot to ask - is there any place where I can look up my own casualties so far, and enemy losses too, if possible? Thanks. :)View->Inventory and Replacements. You can't see enemy casualties unless you tally them as you review Detailed Combat Reports or at the end of the game when you get to see everything form either side.

Telumar

27 Jul 06, 10:31

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 10:43

Didn't have a chance to look at it yet ...
Again there's units not broken down like 68,38 or 74,38. These could help fill gaps. And the stack in 87,35 is just begging to get surrounded and taken out. Also I'm not fond of engineers in the front line with their spades by themselves. Specialist units these.

I think Periers Ridge is lost. Maybe pull back to the Orne but give him a good street battle in north Caen with infantry and SP guns ONLY. No armor, no AT guns. The infantry with Panzerfausts are at their best in this terrain. Anything else is a waste.

The AA in 64,37 etc. are 88s and should be in combined arms stacks on the HKL. Their digging ability is minimal and I believe they use trowels not spades.

I'd watch the recce units east of Pegasus carefully and shadow with my own recce units. These can easily- almost effortlessly- glide through your lines.

Try to contain 75,38 though I wouldn't attack it. I'd also move the line up near Trevieres to be in contact.

Carentan is a waste of assets as it is in my game to be posted shortly. I'm going to switch in the Ostie FJ units and pull the rest of 6 FJ out. I'll leave the LXXXIV Corps AA (88s) to guard with them north of Carentan. But it seems he has no plans here. I don't think he has plans for St Saveur either so I'd scale down here and redistribute north or south. It seems his main thrust is Cherbourg.

Lastly, and given psychology and a somewhat timid opponent here, I'd try to give him a bloody nose and pause for thought- move 1/Sturm to 31,14, 1/206 Pz Bn to 30,12, 2/206 to 29,14 and something else to close the surround and go for it. If this is your only attack try Attack, Ignore Losses with the 2 armor units for the flank benefit and throw some infantry into the assault too. If you've other attacks you may have to modify to fit this into the rounds schedule.

If it works your relatively timid opponent will be even more timid. Which means time. Which with 12-13 turns could mean victory.

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 10:47

Or build a second line on the bottleneck between the rivers W of Troarn?I'd do this. I think trying to retake Pegasus or regain the river line is futile and a waste of precious assets.

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 14:10

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 15:47

Here's what I did ... I really couldn't take out that armoured battalion that you advised me to attack, G.S. I surrounded it and got in three rounds of minimize losses, then on the fourth and last round I attacked with everything I got and ignore losses, but they still held out. :OHNO:

Otherwise I think I did what I could to follow your advice ... except I again forgot to break down that one armoured battalion of the 12th SS in the front line between Bayeux and Bretteville. :o

I also moved a lot of units SE from the Cotentin towards St. Lô. Q: Is it really worthwhile to move around so much, under these conditions of horrible interdiction? Chances are better than 50/50 a company arrives as a disorganized mob, even after a medium distance. :nervous:

I also tried to push some recce units behind enemy lines ... they didn't get far (just N of Bayeux), but maybe it will at least make him nervous. I read a lot about this concept of moving recce into the enemy rear to create havoc ... but won't they be taken out quite easily?

Finally, I heavily damaged two heavy naval units (one I believe took 75% damage).

Q: Was there any final consensus on the question whether digging will keep units from recovering?
Did you attack with armor? I see it sitting slightly north and it probably could be of better use in combined arms stacks with infantry. It's an overrun waiting to happen.

Interdiction is awful. You just have to eat it unfortunately. Or find windows of opportunity to move- for instance in my T3 it went down to 3% so I got out and about as much as I needed.

Recce units in his rear can do disproportionate damage, especially against a very timid opponent. It may cause panic, always highly useful. He'll need a surround to kill the unit. Let's see how it pans out.

Do you have Detailed Combat Reports on? You should then be able to see exactly what damage you've inflicted.

Digging- I'd post the Q in a more general forum. IMO I don't think it hurts units recovering- there's physical movement and then there's the use of MPs digging. But worth testing either in a post here or at Matrix.

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 16:30

Well, he did the same like you.

Actually he says he did the turn in one session ... :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 16:38

Did you attack with armor? I see it sitting slightly north and it probably could be of better use in combined arms stacks with infantry. It's an overrun waiting to happen.

With armour and infantry. In the final round with practically everyone sitting around that stack (30,13) and having nothing better to do.

What exactly do you mean with "an overrun waiting to happen"? Thanks.

Oh, where do I get that Detailed Report?

Telumar

27 Jul 06, 16:43

Actually he says he did the turn in one session ... :rolleyes:
Maybe he made a .sav file on his turn start for the allies thread. I believe if you save during a PBEM turn as a .sav you are redirected to the desktop and will have to reload again. I say believe because i am not one of those lucky guys living in Dublin or Boulogne-Billancourt...in short: no toaw3 yet.

Heldenkaiser

27 Jul 06, 16:45

I say believe because i am not one of those lucky guys living in Dublin or Boulogne-Billancourt...in short: no toaw3 yet.

But you live somewhere where you could download it, no? That's what I did. :)

Veers

27 Jul 06, 16:50

But you live somewhere where you could download it, no? That's what I did. :)
He is waiting for his free copy form Matrix, that he got for doing the german translation, which he has still not recieved.

Ok, so I just recieved Viri's turn.
I opened it, watched the replay and saved it as 2WIN1A.SAL
I then post it here. I then load up 2WIN1A.SAL
Above is fine.
However, if I was to get Viri's turn watch the replay save it as 2WIN1A.SAL and then go and load up the .PBL I would produce a reload warning.
The reload warnign is to prevent someone from setting up all their attacks, then saving, then running their attacks, getting a result they didn't want, loading the previously saved game and running those atatcks over and over until one attains desired results.
So, in short if you save it and then relaod what you saved it as and not the previous file you are fine.
Questions?

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 17:20

What exactly do you mean with "an overrun waiting to happen"? Thanks.

Oh, where do I get that Detailed Report?
A 1-1 Armor unit without infantry support (i.e. not in a combined arms stacks) has little chance of resisting any serious attack.

Detailed Combat Report: Play->Game Options->Advanced Game Options->Detailed Combat Reports=On

Hope this helps.

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 17:23

I say believe because I am not one of those lucky guys living in Dublin or Boulogne-Billancourt...
And I always thoughts you lads were the last word in efficiency, yet here's us poor rural yokels in France and Ireland putting you to shame.;)

Veers

27 Jul 06, 19:13

And I always thoughts you lads were the last word in efficiency, yet here's us poor rural yokels in France and Ireland putting you to shame.;)
Probably the inefficient Americans who did or didn't send it out. :laugh:

Telumar

27 Jul 06, 19:16

And I always thoughts you lads were the last word in efficiency, yet here's us poor rural yokels in France and Ireland putting you to shame.;)

:laugh: i know from one french and one swede that also haven't yet received it. Even a well known birthday picture poster...:shock:

Heinz57

28 Jul 06, 04:25

If immediately after finishing a turn, you load the .sal file to look over the results of the last round of combat, that will generate a report that your opponent may have reloaded, too. Kinda odd.

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 05:38

If immediately after finishing a turn, you load the .sal file to look over the results of the last round of combat, that will generate a report that your opponent may have reloaded, too. Kinda odd.

That is my impression too. Also, just watching the playback, then coming back to the file later will generate a report. Sometimes returning to the same .SAL file will, too. It's apparantely not entirely reliable. Probably that's why it says "may" have reloaded ... :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 05:41

A 1-1 Armor unit without infantry support (i.e. not in a combined arms stacks) has little chance of resisting any serious attack.

Detailed Combat Report: Play->Game Options->Advanced Game Options->Detailed Combat Reports=On

Hope this helps.

Yes, very helpful, thanks.
Well, even getting to these two armour units sitting on their own will involve pushing aside two combined armour/infantry stacks, so we will see ...

Apart from that, what do you think? Especially of the situation east of Pegasus, now that I tried to scrape a new line together there? Also, how does Caen look? The new lines in the rear, are they situated where they can be of use? Any comments are much appreciated, as always.

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 06:21

This playback almost gave me a heart attack. My lines seem to be right good for nothing. :angry:

G.S., it seems he was just waiting for me to withdraw forces from the St. Saveur to Carentan area before he pulverized my line there. The speed with which a minor breakthrough can be exploited is really shocking. :nervous:

Now what? :rolleyes:

General Staff

28 Jul 06, 08:56

This is still OK.

Generally I wonder why everyone is on 'Limit Losses'- as a general rule defenders (except routed, retreated, engineers on ML, arty/HQ caught in the HKL or special situations) should 'Ignore Losses'. With MRPB set to 3 here, it means they're only going to suffer at most 3 rounds of combat. Plus this scenario is really all about time and delay.

66,34- not broken down. Any particular reason?

East of Pegasus, I'd dig units in near Cabourg in 100% terrain andf hold him up for a turn or two. Blow 88,37. Get one last shot in with Naval Guns on your last round. 87,37 is a bit overstacked, with some units not broken down.

Caen looks OK, though I'd be looking to defend in the city itself and pull units North back. Flak units are useless for digging lines- they should be in front of enemy armor, especially if 88s. If you're digging secondary lines, use infantry or PzGs, not armor/AT/AA- these units should be in the HKL in combined arms stacks in front of armor to stop or limit breakthroughs (130 Pz Bns in Foret de Cerisy).

West, given penetration I think the time has come to break the defence into 2- north to defend St Lo and south to defend St Lo/Torigni. So I'd move accordingly taking best advantage of urban/hill/bocage positions. That means blowing the St Saveur bridges, though I'd make a last ditch stand in here to gain a turn or so. Time is everything in this scenario.

24,31-29,31- I'd have dug in a hex forward in better terrain here. Open terrain with 2-3% entrenchment is not going to work. There's no need to defend the rail line- supply come from the south or from the new Supply Point in Cherbourg.

Valognes, maybe a little infantry here- combined arms. Further NE, the armor on its own is a waste- combined arms stacks. Not in the open if avoidable. Use hills, bocage, urban, coastal arty redoubts, behind rivers, anything but not open if you can avoid it. Also defend road junctions to make their MP costs higher. That buys time.

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 09:05

Generally I wonder why everyone is on 'Limit Losses' ...

Still learning! OK, everyone goes on ***.

66,34- not broken down. Any particular reason?

As I said before ... I forgot again. :o
It's being broken down as we speak, sir. :smoke:

87,37 is a bit overstacked, with some units not broken down.

A lot of people retreated into that hex ... we're working on reducing the traffic jam. :halo:

24,31-29,31- I'd have dug in a hex forward in better terrain here. Open terrain with 2-3% entrenchment is not going to work.

Actually all these guys were just passing through on the way to St. Lô ... before the breakthrough, it appeared as if they were no longer needed in this neighbourhood (you even said that much). :nervous:

Off to the front to save what can be saved! Thanks for the advice, as always. :)

General Staff

28 Jul 06, 09:35

Actually all these guys were just passing through on the way to St. Lô ... before the breakthrough, it appeared as if they were no longer needed in this neighbourhood (you even said that much).
I should have been clearer and apologies for the confusion. I meant 6FJ in and near Carentan replaced by Osties and 88s, further west Osties and SPs as in my T4 disposition versus Elmer. When I mentioned St Saveur I had in mind units in the bocage north and in the sense that this front will eventually split in 2- Cherbourg and St Lo/South.

Again apologies Heldenkaiser and hopefully this will clarify for others in the same boat so to speak.

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 09:55

Again apologies Heldenkaiser and hopefully this will clarify for others in the same boat so to speak.

Please, don't apologize. Your valuable advice is much appreciated, and any errors in execution are entirely my own fault. :surprise:

Heldenkaiser

28 Jul 06, 10:38

Here is what I did ... nothing but strengthen the defence everywhere and contain the Allied breakthrough south of St.-Saveur. And of course putting everyone on ignore losses. :shy:

However, two limited attacks / minimize losses north of Carentan and north of Isigny which both inflicted more casualties on the Allies than they suffered. The latter actually (and to my utter surprise) succeeded in driving back the Allied battalion from the Aure bridge, which I could subsequently destroy. :smoke:

BTW using engineers to help other units dig faster is a *really* cute trick. :halo:

And our heavy coastal guns sunk the CA Diadem and heavily damaged another heavy naval unit. It still left me with 80% of my turns remaining! Since this clearly was not the intention of the game designer (as I believe was pointed out in another thread) I closed the turn afterwards without firing them again (only to suffer another round of airstrikes in return for my generosity :angry:).

Well, any comments? They're welcome as always. :)

General Staff

28 Jul 06, 11:39

Looks much better.

Blow 32,12 if you can. Also I'd defend in the forts/coastal arty positions. Forget the river- he's crossed it/got it already.

25,13 and just as an example, I'd have put in 27,13. A good % of ordnance is only ranged to 2 hexes so some wasted here.

I'd swing AG/243 SP Guns back up to Carentan- 2 up 1 back because I think he noticed your move here and has plans. Also a lot of hexes behind his lines here are marked 'unknown'. The engineer unit on the bridge makes it look like he's trying to repair. Taute River bridge- great job! Hope you're seeing the light on LA/ML attacks over several rounds now.

La Haye/Mont Castre- I'd move SS units up here and use Wehrmacht to dig south in towns/bocage/road junctions. Given your opponent, seeing a few SS lads might give him pause for thought and an extra turn for you. Get towns as close to 100% entrenched as you can. Also dig in at crossroads- 34,40 & 37,38 examples. You need to buy time and denying roads does that (plus supply too).

These examples can be equally applied further east.

Hope it helps.

Heldenkaiser

29 Jul 06, 13:02

... not too bad, is it? Still a lot of retreats (automatic and others), but a lot more successful defensive actions. :smoke:

The first time that I am getting the feeling of a halfway stable situation. Of course, he has crossed at Carentan ... :rolleyes:

General Staff

30 Jul 06, 04:57

A few comments but otherwise looks good. And it does seem to be stabilizing as you get reinforcements and the Allies wear themselves out against your line.

Blow 21,23.

I’d worry a bit about 82,37, especially with all those ‘unknown’ hexes behind. Keep track of his recce units and shadow if you can with your own. They can slip through your lines and do untold damage flanking your HKL.

Also there’s a lot of 3 up and not so much 2 up 1 back.

Not sure armor in woods (Cerisy) is such a good idea, especially without infantry. Combined arms stacks are best. Some lads, some panzerfausts and a little armor or AT or SPGs or 88s.

There’s a lot of arty near Carentan and the Vire River east not dug in- it ain’t helping anyone.

I’d be concerned north of Utah and worry some east of the Dives River- both oddly enough your flanks.

Don’t forget to hit the Allied Navy with your units north of Utah on their LAST round- marvellous opportunity and I think all up the east coast are in range.

Heldenkaiser

30 Jul 06, 10:35

Thanks for your comments. :)

I’d worry a bit about 82,37, especially with all those ‘unknown’ hexes behind. Keep track of his recce units and shadow if you can with your own. They can slip through your lines and do untold damage flanking your HKL.

Could you explain this a little more, maybe? I realize that recce units can move through ZOCs with comparative impunity. But they still need a gap in the opposing lines, right? So if I have a continuous front line I am save?

If they slip through, can't they be taken out quite easily? I suppose they have only a very weak defense and attack? I suppose their main asset is their mobility?

What exactly do you mean by "shadow"?

There’s a lot of arty near Carentan and the Vire River east not dug in- it ain’t helping anyone.

I believe some of these ran out of MP while moving up from the reserve ... and some others were helping an attack with direct fire, which leaves them mobile. Or? :rolleyes:

I’d be concerned north of Utah and worry some east of the Dives River- both oddly enough your flanks.

I've never been much worried about being weak on the flanks ... it's where the enemy has the longest way towards my vitals and I have the most time to react. A breakthrough in the centre worries me more. Am I wrong?

Don’t forget to hit the Allied Navy with your units north of Utah on their LAST round- marvellous opportunity and I think all up the east coast are in range.

I won't! I sank a CA last turn and damaged another badly. :smoke:

BTW you know I can hit them *every* round with coastal arty? I just thought it wasn't quite the English way because it appears to be a bug. :surprise:

Heldenkaiser

30 Jul 06, 13:36

Veers

30 Jul 06, 14:40

.... unfortunately, it ended after a single round of combats, although I am certain I used only units that hadn't moved. :angry:

Which means I ended up with units not dug in - artillery that had fired directly, units that were scheduled to attack in round 2 - anything one could do to avoid such things? Or is it just bad luck? :OHNO:

And also, of course, my coastal artillery had not fired yet. :nervous:
Just bad luck. The Germans have aver high force proficiency in this scenario, 90% I think, so you only get the early turn ending this soon about 1 in 10 turns, but it does happen. :(

General Staff

30 Jul 06, 15:59

1) Could you explain this a little more, maybe? I realize that recce units can move through ZOCs with comparative impunity. But they still need a gap in the opposing lines, right? So if I have a continuous front line I am safe?

2) If they slip through, can't they be taken out quite easily? I suppose they have only a very weak defense and attack? I suppose their main asset is their mobility?

3) What exactly do you mean by "shadow"?

4) I believe some of these ran out of MP while moving up from the reserve... and some others were helping an attack with direct fire, which leaves them mobile. Or?

5) I've never been much worried about being weak on the flanks ... it's where the enemy has the longest way towards my vitals and I have the most time to react. A breakthrough in the centre worries me more. Am I wrong?

6) BTW you know I can hit them *every* round with coastal arty? I just thought it wasn't quite the English way because it appears to be a bug. :surprise:

1) Read up on disengagement. It mentions that units have a reduced chance if enemy recon is high.

2) No. They're often quite resilient. Even surrounded they can take several turns of punishment, and broken down into 3 they can cause havoc with ZOCs, supply and just general mayhem. Their main asset is their mobility and ability to move through enemy ZOCs. Test in hotseat mode to see what I mean.

3) As (1). Putting your own recon units in the ZOC of enemy recon will seriously restrict their movement. Hence 'shadow'. Try in hotseat and you'll see what I mean.

4) Unless there's a very good reason, I always leave 1MP left with units moving up to the front. That way they can be digging rear positions that could be used later and are also safer from air attack. If helping with Direct Fire Support, try to dig in after or put on TR of no MPs left- mobile means it won't help anyone on the defence.

5) Not necessarily. Bayeux and Caen are natural approaches south, both recognized at the time. But north of Utah is towards Cherbourg- an objective. East of Pegasus is less well defended and with engineers to cross rivers it's then on to open country. All a trade-off but your opponent is probably calculating the odds. I've seen end runs round here to take Bourgebus Ridge in some games.

6) Yes. In hotseat and firing Coastal Arty only I got 6 rounds in and bagged about 20 ships. But it's not realistic so I didn't advertise and am not using, other than the last round which I used to use anyway if the Allies didn't stay out of range and I could spot them. Allied Naval Support, especially direct, is a crippling disadvantage, so anything to reduce it at whatever cost is worth paying.

Hope this helps.

P.S. Your English is almost flawless. Can I ask where you learnt it?

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 06:32

1) Read up on disengagement. It mentions that units have a reduced chance if enemy recon is high.

3) As (1). Putting your own recon units in the ZOC of enemy recon will seriously restrict their movement. Hence 'shadow'. Try in hotseat and you'll see what I mean.

Let me see if I can get this straight. So the bottom line is that enemy recce units pose no real threat if countered by my own recce units "shadowing" them, because then they cannot pass through a gap in my lines because they pay the disengagement penalty each time they pass from ZOC to ZOC. Is that right? Complex. :surprise:

But it still needs a gap? Stupid question, I know, but then isn't the easier solution for the enemy recce threat just to allow no gaps in the own lines?

5) Not necessarily. Bayeux and Caen are natural approaches south, both recognized at the time. But north of Utah is towards Cherbourg- an objective. East of Pegasus is less well defended and with engineers to cross rivers it's then on to open country. All a trade-off but your opponent is probably calculating the odds. I've seen end runs round here to take Bourgebus Ridge in some games.

Right. I'll see to it that they don't get a free ride into my rear. Thanks for the warning.

P.S. Your English is almost flawless. Can I ask where you learnt it?

Thanks for the compliment. Mostly five years of serious activity in internet-based wargaming clubs. :D Also, reading mostly English books for my job. And watching undubbed movies. DVD's were a quantum leap in that respect. :smoke:
I mean, seriously, who wants to see an American actor play a French general and speak poorly translated German that misses all the puns? :laugh:

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 07:27

Let me see if I can get this straight. So the bottom line is that enemy recce units pose no real threat if countered by my own recce units "shadowing" them, because then they cannot pass through a gap in my lines because they pay the disengagement penalty each time they pass from ZOC to ZOC. Is that right? Complex. :surprise:

But it still needs a gap? Stupid question, I know, but then isn't the easier solution for the enemy recce threat just to allow no gaps in the own lines?
It doesn't necessarily 'need' a gap. Their forces are quite capable of creating one, which the recce unit can then exploit, possibly getting flank advantage against other units of yours. Disengagement applies moving from one enemy ZOC and even more so one to another. Your recce units increase that cost.

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 07:31

It doesn't necessarily 'need' a gap. Their forces are quite capable of creating one, which the recce unit can then exploit, possibly getting flank advantage against other units of yours. Disengagement applies moving from one enemy ZOC and even more so one to another. Your recce units increase that cost.

Thanks! I got it now. :)

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 08:15

I mean, seriously, who wants to see an American actor play a French general and speak poorly translated German that misses all the puns? :laugh:
Which movie? Kirk Douglas in Paths of Glory?

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 08:42

.... unfortunately, it ended after a single round of combats, although I am certain I used only units that hadn't moved.
Some attack(s) went wrong round-wise this turn, which is why you only got 1 round. Try and diagnose what, so you don’t do again. I can see that because all your units without exception have 0 MPs left.

East, if you can afford it, I’d put something in Dozule and at crossroads south- 92,38/94,38 and get them digging. Also if and when you can afford it all towns south of Caen with a view to protecting Bourgebus Ridge.

North of Utah I’d forget rivers as defence- just focus ‘hedgehogs’ on the Coastal Arty positions east and other defensible positions.

I hate repeating myself, but there’s still a lack of 2 up, 1 back, some arty not dug in (though due to early turn end), some engineers out on their own. We live and learn.

When it genuinely happens, turn end is just bad luck, but in this case I think an attack went in with something that would force turn end. Check if you can.

But all told still very good, and I think you’re on to a winner.

Hope this helps.

Telumar

31 Jul 06, 08:43

Which movie? Kirk Douglas in Paths of Glory?
Good movie, btw, though i have only seen the german version.

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 08:52

I hate repeating myself, but there’s still a lack of 2 up, 1 back, some arty not dug in (though due to early turn end), some engineers out on their own. We live and learn.

Keep hammering it into me. :laugh:

Seriously, I am working on it all that (and some other things). This is only my sixth turn (on this scale). :o

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 08:56

Which movie? Kirk Douglas in Paths of Glory?

Rod Steiger in "Waterloo". As I said, I am a 19th century man. ;)

"What's Ney doing, what's he doing? How can a man go forward with the cavalry without infantry support?!?"

Hm ... guess that could be "what's the armour doing out there north of Utah without infantry support". See? There's a lesson or two in that old stuff. :D

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 10:20

... he has taken Bayeux (contain the penetration, or retreat to a new defensive line based on the hills and woods from 58,33 over 69,41 to 74,44?), is over the Dives :angry: (contain) and has another crossing over the Douve (ignore), but otherwise it's still looking halfway stable, no? :shy:

New toys have arrived at Coutances ... (have you visited Coutances? Quite beautiful :) )

Heldenkaiser

31 Jul 06, 10:36

... now 18%. :angry:

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 14:47

There's a lesson or two in that old stuff.
2 up 1 back, combined arms dug in in good defensive terrain, preferably at crossroads to choke movement. Quatre Bras wasn't called that for no reason.;)

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 14:53

... now 18%.
I thought mine was bad. Maybe you should see a doctor for that nervous tic in your eye.

The only thing I can suggest is look at the scenario briefing- the US heavy bombers on CS are withdrawn when forces come near St Lo (10H)- 1st unit and Portbail (8H) or Valognes (3H)- 2nd unit.

This may mean he'll put other units on CS and off Interdiction. You might want to factor this into your defence strategy- I will (he says doing a quick 360 degree look up in the sky).

General Staff

31 Jul 06, 15:09

I'd only add to previous comments regarding this turn that:

1) I'd start some defence of Cherbourg now. Take a look at my game for an idea. This front has a tendency to collapse abruptly, with US units racing forwards sometimes faster than German units can follow.

2) Omaha, Cerisy, Bayeux. I dig in fairly far back to start- it helps to create fall back positions which I hope I never need to use. But just enough until I see where Allied moves are going- then defend further forward as close to Allies as I can to make movement/disengagement/MP expenditure more costly and provide avenues of escape for routed/retreated units. Use bocage/hills/forest as best you can. I'd be further forward denying crossroads NE of Cerisy and Balleroy. Also in the bocage between Isigny and Trevieres, contesting every hex of it with a 2 up 1 back defensive line where I could.

3) Also further forward at La Haye-Mont Castre. Use flooded marsh as right flank and dig in on hills, in woods and towns to deny them the road net here.

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

01 Aug 06, 15:03

... I couldn't quite get myself to abandoning that great line from Bayeux to Caen even though it has been breached in one place. :shy:

Air attacks between the combat rounds are hell. :angry:

General Staff

01 Aug 06, 18:29

1) I couldn't quite get myself to abandoning that great line from Bayeux to Caen even though it has been breached in one place.

2) Air attacks between the combat rounds are hell.

1) I'd abandon this idea. 2 up, 1 back at major junctions in defensible terrain in CA stacks should get you to the finish line. Remember- you're just trying to do better than was done historically and that's the benchmark here.

2) Yes. But you're going to eat this one way or the other. Maybe better while he's not in control of his AF in your turn- he can't take those Typhoons to Rest for example.

Hope this helps.

Heldenkaiser

02 Aug 06, 07:30

1) I'd abandon this idea. 2 up, 1 back at major junctions in defensible terrain in CA stacks should get you to the finish line. Remember- you're just trying to do better than was done historically and that's the benchmark here.

I hear you. I do. But I seem to have a rather timid opponent and the desire to capitalize on that and try to actually hold a forward line, now that it's so well fortified, is almost irresistible. Why fall back in anticipation of a heavy push that never materializes? T7 and he has just about taken Bayeux and is still fighting for Carentan and Caen. :surprise:

I *do* want to try this from the Allied side later. See if I can do better. :)

Anyway, I forgot to mention that my heavy coastal guns severely damaged some of his cruisers and a battlewagon (Nevada, I believe, off Utah). That with 90% of my turn left and nothing else to do - again suffered a horrible round of air attacks for nothing - the desire to fire my heavy guns again was almost irresistible, too. :rolleyes:

And here's come his T8. No chance to look at it yet. Maybe now I'll have to eat my words about my timid opponent and all that ... who knows? :nervous:

Heldenkaiser

04 Aug 06, 05:01

Any tips from the veterans before I play this turn? I won't get to it before tonight, so there is plenty of time ... thanks. :)

General Staff

04 Aug 06, 08:24

I'd maybe put something digging in Cherbourg. I'd worry about east of the Dives. Given turn #, I'd maybe withdraw/pull back some if only to get out of range of Allied Naval Fire.

The psychology of an opponent is an important consideration, though I haven't mentioned previously since I'm largely dealing with mechanics.

For myself, I'd just keep digging in and defending. Though it is of course only a game, I tend to look at this as though it were real, and reduce casualties when I could. You also run the risk of overconfidence, which can be counter-productive. Your opponent could just decide on an 'I've nothing to lose' strategy which might just win if you're out and about and not dug in.

But you almost certainly have a draw or win and also have the makings IMO of a brilliant player and you're off on your own now. Hals und Beinbruch!

Heldenkaiser

04 Aug 06, 08:43

...you're off on your own now. Hals und Beinbruch!

Point taken. Thanks for all your advice. :)

General Staff

04 Aug 06, 08:52

Thanks for all your advice.
You're welcome. I look forward to the result, which I hope you post, along with other game turns so others can view your progress to hopefully a victory.

Heldenkaiser

04 Aug 06, 13:22

The breakthrough at St.-Saveur is apparantely beyond repair. Now it's about wasting the enemy's time there so that the approaches to Cherbourg can be in some way barred before his armour comes racing into town. Otherwise, I am confident.

Coastal guns sank the CA Tuscaloosa and did 66% damage to BB Ramillies, another 50% to Nevada (the third time I hit it, this thing seems right unsinkable :angry:).

I noticed that artillery that I was fairly sure I had dug in before a combat round was showing as "mobile" again in the next round. Would it be possible that guns can become "dug out" by air attacks? In one nasty case the battery was left mobile and without points to dig in. :rolleyes:

Veers

04 Aug 06, 14:10

Coastal guns sank the CA Tuscaloosa and did 66% damage to BB Ramillies, another 50% to Nevada (the third time I hit it, this thing seems right unsinkable :angry:).
If you look at the detailed combat reports you'll likely see that the 'Nevada' s made up of more than just a single battleship. It is more likely the Nevada 'Group' meaning ther could be cruisers and destroyers in it. So, if you take out 4 Destroyers out of 7 destroyers and a battleship, you'll read 50% damage, withut havign hit the Nevade, itself (the Battelship).

I noticed that artillery that I was fairly sure I had dug in before a combat round was showing as "mobile" again in the next round. Would it be possible that guns can become "dug out" by air attacks? In one nasty case the battery was left mobile and without points to dig in. :rolleyes:
Yes, it would. However, the no MP to dig in would have to be cause by it having been pushed back, I would think.

General Staff

05 Aug 06, 05:29

The breakthrough at St. Saveur is apparently beyond repair. Now it's about wasting the enemy's time there so that the approaches to Cherbourg can be in some way barred before his armour comes racing into town.
On the day the US really wanted Cherbourg so put a lot of resource into this. The Germans put up a hell of a defence in the town and held up for quite a while IIRC. Often you'll find in TOAW that what was done historically was generally the way to go, and these guys usually knew what they were doing, or adapted. Hence my approach.

St Saveur will eventually always fall. Just pivot north and south. Now in your game it is about wasting time for a few turns.

Hope this helps.

Veers

05 Aug 06, 13:22

:hurray:GO, HELDENKAISER, GO:hurray:

Heldenkaiser

06 Aug 06, 13:57

Thanks again, Gents. :)

Now waiting for my opp's turn ... he has never needed so long before. :rolleyes:

Heldenkaiser

07 Aug 06, 14:56

... my opponent's T9 (he says 8, but it's 9 I believe).

End-around-run in the East ... otherwise still looking good. :halo:

Benbur

07 Aug 06, 15:51

Go baby GO!

You should come away with a win! Looking good.

Go Axis Team Go. :smoke:

Wanna trade opponents? :clown:

Heldenkaiser

08 Aug 06, 05:51

Wanna trade opponents? :clown:

Hehe. Not really, I like mine. Reliable, quick, determined and just about manageable. ;)

Now I would like to try this from the other side once I am finished with the good Marshal. See the other side of the hill. :smoke:

Heldenkaiser

08 Aug 06, 12:38

Areas of concern are, as G.S. has pointed out before, my flanks. I am quite certain I can prevent my opponent from ever getting through to St.-Lô or Torigni--if nothing else, the sheer number of units in between will see to that--and now that I have started to deploy 2nd Panzer on Bourguebus Ridge I am confident I can deny him that as well. Still, there is not a lot between his 2nd crossing of the Dives south of Cabourg and my right rear ... I am throwing in isolated companies of engineers and scout cars there just to buy a little time, and meanwhile I try to fortify at least the crossroads between Orne and Dives. Afterall, four turns is not that much time for him to accomplish anything.

Now obviously my main concern is Cherbourg. The front is very close to collapsing practically everywhere north of St. Saveur. Basically I am now leaving everything that is fortified in a good position to die in place if need be just to restrict his movement by a few ZOCs in order to gain a little time while everyone is scrambling into Cherbourg for a last-ditch defence ... but it's a close call I am afraid. :rolleyes:

At 29,28, one of the famous LA/ML/Arty combinations pushed back an enemy engineer battalion. :)

And interdiction is down to 18%.

Heldenkaiser

13 Aug 06, 13:41

... he says 9, but I believe it's 10. :shy:

Heldenkaiser

13 Aug 06, 14:53

I am stabilizing on the left and right, fortifying Bourguebus Ridge ... let's see about Cherbourg. The centre is of no concern right now. I don't think he's getting anywhere ... and time's running out. :smoke:

General Staff

14 Aug 06, 08:21

This is really excellent.

The only things I'd say is I'd put HQs, Arty & Engineer units on ML settings because you need them so badly so want them to retreat if hit- otherwise I usually put everything else on IL, since you're playing for time here and want them to hold as long as possible. But there are of course exceptions to every rule.

And also with Scenario Variability 'On', games can sometimes go an extra turn, though I don't believe more (see below) so don't get complacent.

Heldenkaiser

14 Aug 06, 12:29

The only things I'd say is I'd put HQs, Arty & Engineer units on ML settings because you need them so badly so want them to retreat if hit-

Ack.
I usually do that - but at this stage I'd rather see even an eng unit hold a hex a turn more, as I can't trade space for time, especially not east of the Dives.

... so don't get complacent.

OK. :D

Telumar

15 Aug 06, 15:19

Just opened your save file - this looks indeed very good! You're on the road to victory. I doubt i can do better against Larry.

What else does that mean? I have toaw3 now... :joy:

Heldenkaiser

15 Aug 06, 16:44

What else does that mean? I have toaw3 now... :joy:

Have fun. :D

Heldenkaiser

16 Aug 06, 06:13

... my opponent has really slowed down. :nervous:

And this now, when I am so eager to finish that game and move on to new challenges ... :rolleyes:

General Staff

16 Aug 06, 11:12

And this now, when I am so eager to finish that game and move on to new challenges ... :rolleyes:
This indicates he's demoralized, which in turn indicates he thinks he's going to lose. If I were you, and I'm pretty sure you're going to win here, I'd just go ahead and start that new challenge. Or try Allies against Elmer...

Telumar

16 Aug 06, 11:39

Heldenkaiser, don't you think it's time to change the thread's smiley? ;)

Heldenkaiser

16 Aug 06, 11:40

Heldenkaiser, don't you think it's time to change the thread's smiley? ;)

It occured to me ... :laugh:

How? :halo:

Telumar

16 Aug 06, 11:52

It occured to me ... :laugh:

How? :halo:

Good question... :whist:

Heldenkaiser

17 Aug 06, 05:12

If I were you, and I'm pretty sure you're going to win here, I'd just go ahead and start that new challenge. Or try Allies against Elmer...

Nah, been there, done that ... too often. Starting new games just because old ones slow down and ending up with way too much on my plate. Brought me close to burnout more than once in the past five years. I have sworn a long time ago to start a new game only when an old one is over, period. There's only so many hours in the day ...

And playing the AI? I don't know ... feels like wasting my time.

Anyway, here is the new turn, at last. You could be right about my opponent being demoralized, G.S. ... he sent it with a blank message, no kind word, no "have fun", nada. :surprise:

General Staff

17 Aug 06, 12:35

Looks excellent. The only major VP location in doubt seems to be Cherbourg, and I think you may well keep that. Plus Carentan and Foret de Cerisy.

Heldenkaiser

17 Aug 06, 13:04

Damned airstrikes are killing me ... and two series's of LA/ML attacks with artillery against his exposed stacks west of Caen and on the river in Caen itself failed. On the other hand, I am becoming more confident about both Cherbourg and the right flank beyond the Dives ... he is not pushing very hard any more there.

And as always, almost all of his attacks failed during his turn ... the recce unit behind his lines near Omaha bounced around for several turns because he failed to surround it completely. :laugh:

Hank2

18 Aug 06, 09:01

... that was a pretty dumb post so ... off it goes

... looks like you're going to be the first to get a victory.

hank

Heldenkaiser

21 Aug 06, 04:59

Haven't looked at it yet, as I am at work.

Came again with a blank email. Is this normal on this ladder, or does anyone else find it somewhat rude? :rolleyes:

General Staff

21 Aug 06, 07:39

Came again with a blank email. Is this normal on this ladder, or does anyone else find it somewhat rude? :rolleyes:
Some folks are in a hurry, others want to get a losing game over with ASAP. Takes all sorts. At least he's playing through- nothing worse than AWOL opponents.

At the end of the day though it's your choice who you play against (again). If you find it rude just mark your dance card.

Heldenkaiser

21 Aug 06, 09:03

Some folks are in a hurry, others want to get a losing game over with ASAP. Takes all sorts. At least he's playing through- nothing worse than AWOL opponents.

At the end of the day though it's your choice who you play against (again). If you find it rude just mark your dance card.

Thanks--I would. But I also wanted to make sure that this isn't a quite normal behaviour on this ladder. Not all communities tick the same way. In the wargaming clubs I've been active in so far, a blank email would be considered extremely rude by most; "back to you" would be the minimum to accompany a turn, and everything from a two-line comment on the events in the turn to lengthy discussions of game, design, historical or even unrelated matters the norm. ;)

But then these other clubs also insist that people use real names rather than board user names, they emphasize roleplaying etc., so it's really not quite the same thing. I want to make sure I don't hold something against my opponent that people here would really consider quite normal, unexceptional behaviour. :rolleyes:

General Staff

21 Aug 06, 09:28

Most people are happy to chat about their games and make observations, but there is a minority who won't/don't. Personally I agree and consider it rude not to at least say something- 'Over to you', 'Best', 'Regards' etc... but it's impossible to enforce.

There are also folks I would never play again for a variety of reasons, though this wouldn't necessarily be one of them. My thought is if you've the option to be pleasant or rude, why not be pleasant? What have you got to lose (except the game of course)?

Anyway, please don't let this put you off- for everyone who won't say a word there are 99 who will.

Heldenkaiser

22 Aug 06, 14:24

Only 239 actions in the replay ... I think my opponent has more or less given up.

Did four or five combat rounds with LA/ML against enemy stacks at 81,39, 86,40 and a couple of other places. But I really think I suffer more from the air attacks each round than I can positively gain with a few local attacks, so with 50% of the turn left I called it a day ...

Situation stable, only area of concern left is Cherbourg - but even there the only real threat are the enemy AC coys at 23,5 and 17,22 - especially the latter needs to have its way into Cherbourg by the back door blocked somehow.

Interdiction is again at 20% and air attacks are hell. A good number of my units are dug out, bombed into retreated status, sometimes even vaporized in each round. Sure hope this ends next turn. :surprise: