Benbur v. Zavatad [Archive] - GameSquad Forums

Benbur

20 Jul 06, 18:58

Hi Everybody,

It looks like he's got a good start. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
:eek:

General Staff

20 Jul 06, 20:31

He sure has. At 900 moves on playback this guy knows how to use the combat rounds system.

East you need to retake 82,37 and 80,35. Try to contain the Paras east of the Orne River and take at least 83,36 on turn 1 too- if you get a chance at Pegasus go for it and then if you take it blow it. Get your 21 Pz Div arty up and into position to support as well as possible.

Form a line on Periers Ridge west to 76,34. Split PzG units and engineers into 3 and put 2 units in the front line and dig. Engineers in front line should be on minimize losses since they're too valuable to lose in combat. Other units should almost always defend on ignore losses. 305AA Bn should be broken down into 3 and parcelled out in the front line to use against tanks.

Dig in at 75,35 using a broken down engineer piece, some infantry (maybe broken down) and some AT ability (88s or Armor (1/22 Pz s/b out here) or a piece of 200 AG Bn). Likewise 73,34 and 73,35. 73,32 if you can get something there. Then behind the river line around Creully. Bayeux. Put a piece of 1/22 Pz in 64,32. 65,32. Maybe break 1/916 into 3 and put 2 pieces in these hexes with one behind in 65,33. You could try parcelling out 88s to 64,32 and 65,32 and put the 1/22 Pz piece in 65,33 on Tactical Reserve which might give them a shock.

Carentan. You need to at least eject the unit from 35,30 using direct arty fire and a 1/3 piece of the unit in Carentan and rotating 1/3 per round, plus using the unit next door likewise if necessary. Get LXXXIV arty up from Periers to help and I'd put the HQ on Mont Castre because you'll probably need its intel next turn.

Forget the Merderet bridges- too far compromised. Just dig in to the bocage as far forward as you can but blow bridges on Douve SE of St Saveur. North of Utah dig in to the towns (Montebourg and Quineville) and also hills behind to form a line. Site arty well and get out of front lines. Also remember the range on the counter is MAXIMUM ranged weapon. Check unit to get exact breakdowns/ranges.

Defence in depth is the key if you can. Break units down if needed but a rule of thumb is you need as defence factor of ideally 3 (maybe 2) to avoid overrun or RBC.

This guy's a pro. Maybe not TOAW, but he's wargamed a while or has really spent some time on this. Good luck! Worst one yet. You need to play a very good defensive battle here to win I think. Again see the Balkans 12 article for the Rest & Rotation system.

P.S. It always pays to do a little intel work on your opponents. His rating on the ladders, what he's played and of course his win-lose stats. See http://aar.mediocren.com/two-weeks-in-normandy-44-vs-po/ and you might be able to deduce his game plan. He certainly has one and it seems pretty good to me.

Benbur

20 Jul 06, 20:46

Hi General Staff,

Thanks 4 your reply. He knows how to use the combat rounds system, unfortunately I don't. :upset: I'll be learning the hard way! :cool:

Thanks for your suggestions but I've already begun and screwed up with the combat rounds system. Opps! :mad:

But keep the ideas coming! Thanks again.

Benbur

21 Jul 06, 18:50

Hi Everybody,

How's the Axis team Holding up?! I hope everybody's in better shape than me. :(

Here's Zavatad's Turn 2. I've already replied. I'm giving my all trying to stop him!
I still haven't figured out the round system, but I'm working on it!

My mother always said I wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer!

Thanks in advance for any tips!

General Staff

22 Jul 06, 06:26

How's the Axis team Holding up?! I hope everybody's in better shape than me. :(

Here's Zavatad's Turn 2. I've already replied. I'm giving my all trying to stop him!
I still haven't figured out the round system, but I'm working on it!

I've got to be blunt here- this doesn't look at all hopeful, but then you seem to be up against the best Allied player I've seen so far.

One thing I notice is a lot of concentration of forces. Around Cherbourg, Bricquebec, Valognes, Quettehoo St. Vaast. And 80,36 has a significant %age of 21 Pz concentrated in a single hex at only 15% entrenchment and none of them dug in. Look for him to close the pocket here with a good number of units trapped with their backs to the Orne River.

Also there is no front line to speak of. And between Caen and Bayeux even the arrival of an SS Division is not going to be enough to form a line that will hold.

Likewise at Omaha where- LoL- elements of 30 Mobile Brigade on the road at 54,33 are still peddling around the French countryside out in the open under heavy Allied interdiction- they look healthy enough and haven't been hit yet, perhaps because the Allied pilots just fly over with their jaws open in utter amazement. Maybe they haven't heard the news- there's a war on. Possibly they're on sabbatical, enjoying the delights of a French summer in Normandy? Perhaps the Germans have opened their psychiatric hospitals and released the inmates- then armed them with Rifles, Panzerfausts and Bicycles.

Utah is better, but you need a contiguous line and preferably in depth as described elsewhere. The Allies will go through the gaps between units here. North of Utah, the defensive benefits of rivers is behind them, as opposed to on them. Looks like the Allies are going to make a bid for Cherbourg. Expect them to go right as they get the extensive benefit of Allied Naval Fire, a huge advantage. If it comes to a foot race, you may find the Allies could get to Cherbourg before some of your southern units can get back.

A general observation also is that there just isn't much digging going on, with a lot of units in the open and not dug in at all.

Concentration of force here, other than small tactical reserves if you can afford them, is a killer. One because they make great targets for interdiction and two they make great targets for ground forces to surround and then kill. Lastly because concentration means you can't form the defence in depth that's needed because the units are all bottled up in various towns or hexes.

To win IMO you do need a defence in depth, with units where possible always trying to dig that second line with engineers helping. Then as organized a fighting withdrawal as you can, with arty well sited to cover, making the Allies pay as dearly as possible for each hex (remember casualties count towards victory) and just holding out long enough to beat the clock at 12-13 turns.

Hope this helps.

Benbur

23 Jul 06, 09:49

Hi General Staff,

Thanks again for your advice. My problem is getting time enough to form a defense in depth. I'll try it though. The hole in my center was there before I could do anything about it, unfortunatley.

I'll keep pluggin away. But to be honest with you I haven't got a chance.

Never say die!

When u say defense in depth, u mean dividing units into 2 or 3. 2 out front one in back, all dig in! Right?

Thanks in advance.

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 10:21

When u say defense in depth, u mean dividing units into 2 or 3. 2 out front one in back, all dig in! Right?

Yes, exactly. Look at my turn versus Elmer to get an idea of what I mean, particularly around Carentan where you can see it in a 'pure' form before combat influences it. Benefits include:

1) You are digging a second line already with the unit behind. If units in front get badly shot up they can retreat through this unit, leaving it to hopefully hold while they get a chance to recover.
2) If one unit gets hit hard you can rotate it out to the rear and switch in the rested one.
3) On from 2 hurt units get a chance to rest and recover some.
4) The rear unit can provide protection to rear arty.
5) If you recombine the unit, they recombine at average values. That means supply can be boosted for the front units that have seen combat just by recombining.
6) Also equipment will be pooled when you recombine and next time you break down passed out equitably- so that unit down to 1/6 Rifle Squads gets the benefit of what the others have in excess of what it has.
7) It hampers the ability of units to breakthrough your lines and then dash to your rear. ZOC costs add up, and the rear unit will contribute if they try and smash through.
8) You can put the rear unit on Tactical Reserve though in TOAWIII with the MRPB switch, this is not as useful as it used to be, when it could burn a whole turn.
9) It also helps in withdrawal because troops have a rear unit to rally on if routed/retreated.

I actually got this idea from reading a 'HANDBOOK ON GERMAN MILITARY FORCES (MARCH 1945)' issued by the US War Department and based on original Wehrmacht materials. It also discusses a range of other issues such as withdrawals. I'll start a separate thread and attach the document there for those with interest.

Telumar

23 Jul 06, 10:29

I actually got this idea from reading a 'HANDBOOK ON GERMAN MILITARY FORCES (MARCH 1945)' issued by the US War Department and based on original Wehrmacht materials. It also discusses a range of other issues such as withdrawals. I'll start a separate thread and attach the document there for those with interest.

Uaahahah! Cool! A german original available?:thumup:

Heldenkaiser

23 Jul 06, 10:34

The hole in my center was there before I could do anything about it, unfortunatley.

That sounds familiar!! :OHNO:

General Staff

23 Jul 06, 11:37

Uaahahah! Cool! A german original available?:thumup:
Sorry no. But that's partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone with English and German as a native language could translate it.:D

Telumar

23 Jul 06, 11:41

Sorry no. But that's partly why I posted it. I was hoping someone with English and German as a native language could translate it.:D
:D :D :D :D

Benbur

27 Jul 06, 04:33

Hi,

It's seems that some of my allies are doing alright and some are in the same shape as me!!!

Here is Zavatad's 3rd Round. I've still got a huge hole in my center. I'm trying to fill it!! :clown:

I'll post my move when I'm done. Could somebody tell me what file I should
post?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I'm slowly but surely getting the hang of the Round system.

Please keep the advice coming. Zavatad seems to have done serious amounts of homework. :)

Benbur

27 Jul 06, 04:48

Hi Everybody,

Here's my answer to Zavatad's turn 3.

Advice?

Thanks. :cool:

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 05:06

Still doesn't look good. I'm going to repeat myself (I hate doing this) and say ALL units need to be broken down, except arty, 88s where there's only 4 or less or where there's a very good reason not to.

The Q should be 'why NOT break down units', not 'why break down units'. If you've got a good answer to this Q, post it and I'm pretty sure I can find an answer that means it SHOULD be broken down. And maybe look at my game versus Elmer to see how this can work in practice.

Until this fundamental lesson is grasped, I'll be praying for you. Good luck!

Telumar

27 Jul 06, 05:08

Benbur

27 Jul 06, 05:27

Benbur

27 Jul 06, 05:36

Maybe I'm not doing enough of it?

General Staff

27 Jul 06, 05:40

Maybe I'm not doing enough of it?
Most don't seem broken down. At least in the turn you posted. It's right click on a unit and 'Divide Unit', then select 3. You've got to look at this as a 'Why am I NOT breaking this unit down?' Q. Maybe read the thread 'Unit 3-Piece Breakdowns & 2 Up 1 Back' for rationales.

Hope this helps.

Benbur

03 Aug 06, 13:41

Hello,

Here is my opponents 4th turn.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm still trying to protect St. Lo and Torigni. I should be able to. In order to do it I will get only 1 attack. Oh well, that's life! :)

I'd like to thank everybody for there help and advice. This workshop was and is a great Idea!!

Benbur

03 Aug 06, 14:38

Hi,

Here's my answer to my opponents turn 4.

Doing my best and am finally dividing my units!! To little to late!! :clown:

Thanks for any advice.

General Staff

04 Aug 06, 07:14

Thanks for any advice.
Some pointers:

1) I'd start something in Cherbourg if you can. A few units digging.
2) 27,12. Armor- these tanks are obsolete but still functional. I'd break down and parcel out in terrain as described elsewhere.
3) The 1-1's in 33,11- say- won't hold and this is one of his main avenues of approach digging out Coastal Arty, with Allied Naval Support. Along with Valognes and maybe Briquebec. A 1-1 is an overrun that just doesn't know it yet- try 2 or 3 defence factors with arty support from behind. There is a point at which breaking units down is not productive and this is prebably about it.
4) Coastal Arty (e.g. around Cherbourg) should be on TR mode- mobile will not help anyone.
5) 33,38- some arty not sited so well and should be further back. I can't speak to specifics and there may be mitigating factors, but given range I'd put this- as an example- in 37,35. It's also in 'Retreated' mode but a way out of this is discussed elsewhere.
6) 45,37. I wouldn't stack AA, small armor by itself. Or HQs or arty if I can avoid. Combined Arms stacks is IMO the way to go.
7) St Lo. A few bridges blown maybe a little prematurely. It can give your opponent an impression of panic, which he may use to his (psychological) advantage.
8) Check your reinforcement schedule each turn. Those units in St Lo could have been further up this turn given what's coming up next.
9) Dig in. Check you did. Keep 1 MP for units moving up to the front to be able to do so also.

Hope this helps. It may be a little blunt but I'm watching a lot of games and this is advice for everyone, not just an individual game.

Benbur

12 Aug 06, 13:36

Hi Everybody!!!

How's the rest of the Axis Team doing? Probably better than me! At least I hope so! :clown:

Here's my opponents turn 5. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Especially how to plug the hole in my center!!! :OHNO:

Thanks in advance.

Benbur

P.S. - I think I've finally got all units brokendown! :crosseye:

Benbur

12 Aug 06, 13:37

Opps!!

:hush:

Benbur

12 Aug 06, 13:39

Hi General Staff,

Thanks for your advice and please keep it coming. I couldn't implement some of your latest suggestions because I'd already sent my reply before I was able to read them.

I will be implementing as many as possible during this turn!

Question: Armor should never be alone? Should I stack it with Inf and Art?

T(h)anks!!

Benbur

General Staff

13 Aug 06, 10:53

1) NW a lot of units aren't dug in.
2) Use Bocage, urban and mountain terrain to dig in. Also use fortresses as he has to take out fo Naval Support.
3) 27,14. I'd pull back arty and retreated units- in fact everything I could here. Or some other units and Retreated Units (don't forget the attack trick to make them mobile so you can dig in) on ML don't fair so well sometimes.
4) 31,12 I'd get HQ back with its own units for supply help.
5) I think I mentioned break down and parcel out armor and SP/AT Guns and place in urban, mountains. I see a few units NW not broken down. I know there's still that urge to hold a Pz Reserve and hurl the Allies back into the sea, but it ain't going to happen. Plus these aren't King Tigers.
6) Just try and hold road juctions and keep him away from Cherbourg as long as possible. And put something in there to make a last ditch defence to start digging. Maybe Engineers from Briquebec, all Sturm Battalions and 206 Pz.
7) Valognes- something there and in bocage SW. Then something in the mountains N/NW and NE. Also mountains north to river to fend road.
8) Watch his recce units and try to avoid gaps he can get through.

It's going to be very close at Cherbourg and if you don't get a perimeter up there digging in the outskirts (30%) I think you'll lose it.

9) St Saveur- the only unit south of the river is the one in the woods dug in at 18%. The others at 3% are useless and I'd form a 2-up & 1-back defence the the woods. Then get something bigger and better up to defend. Maybe 1 one the units in the marshes broken down with an engineer piece each to help digging. The unit other in the bocage to left and HQ and arty placed for support. Also arty unit on Mont Castre is a waste and it's all a bit of a moot point holding that now.

Just fighting withdrawal here now to keep these units from St Lo/Torigni- you other objectives to lose since Cherbourg is now effectively on its own.

10) I just noticed Allied position near Pont Hebert and you've got to contain this. If you don't you are lost. So forget what I said above on St Saveur and just pull back leaving sacrificial units to defend road junctions in defensible terrain. Also I 'd abandon Carentan- you haven't a hope of keeping it for 7 turns (nobody really ever does). Keep your lines level on each side of the river keeping an eye on those US units east. I'd swing SS units in Periers over to help St Lo. Anything else you can spare also. I'd probably put 2 of the para units NE of St Lo in 2/1 position north of St Lo to try to contain breakthrough- with pieces on top of routed units, the other piece in the Foret to try to see what you can salvage there. I'd put that 1-1 NE of St Lo to blow bridge at Pont Hebert if Allies get too close- without a 2-1 defence and some support a unit like this doesnt have a prayer.

11) In the mountains I'd try to dig in in combined arms stack (some infantry some AT Engineers to help dig if you have) at road junctions and towns- watch recce units which will slip through and make your lines irrrelevant. He'll probably try to outflank Torigni and Bourgebus Ridge from S/SW/SE area.

12) Further east doesn't look too good either. There's still a tendency to dig in open ground just to hold a hex or two, when open ground (unless specifically set by designer or used before) has 0% dug in status to start whereas using many of the other terrain types gives you a 15% up front.

I'm not sure this overall looks too good. I think it just got off to a hard start against a good opponent, but I'd also say I think you need to maybe look at 'defence in depth' a little further. That's why- at this scale- I use 2-1 formations with covering arty and HQs placed to pull units out if I can. With single lines no matter how powerful if there's a breakthrough it's harder to seal. There are als other benefits I've explained before.

Anyway hope this helps and let's see how the next turn comes out.

Benbur

17 Aug 06, 18:21

Hi Everybody,

Thanks again General Staff!! :cool:

Here is my turn 5. I've tried to incorporate all of your advice, but allied Interdiction always has it's say! :OHNO:

Any advice and tips (even after the fact) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everybody for your advice.

Go team GO!!

:smoke: