European Map - 15km scale?

[Heinz57]

Does anyone know of a map for TOAW at the 15 km scale covering Europe - say from Gibraltar to Astrakahn?

Right now, the closest I've been able to find is the map for The Great War which will require some major adjustments. Before I start on that, I want to ensure there's not an easier route...my hopes are not high...ha...

10 km and 20+ km scales are out of consideration...I know...picky-picky...

Any help appreciated.

Alternatively, I'm willing to pay for help - e-mail me at yazidee (at) aol (dot) com for details.

[Ben Turner]

I suggest you start from scratch. There's nothing out there that does just what you want and I think you'd wind up having more work to change the existing 15km/hex maps for your purposes than to create your own. Plus that way you can use Latlong or ODD to help you.

What's the map going to be for- or are you just being good-natured? Sounds like the standard Second World War area.

[Heinz57]

This is for an attempt to model WWII from 06/1942 - 05/1945 for the Western, Eastern, Mediterranean and Finnish Theaters, though anyone wanting to use the map would be welcome to do so.

Unit scale is Division/Brigade/Composite Regiment with some chrome.

[LOK]

There are 20-25 km maps of Europe in several scenarios.
just out of curiosity: you can barely fit Europe in a 300x300 map at 15km. The distances from Russia (Moscow to Lisbon) and Norway to North Africa are at the limits of the map. Also at the division scale you will hit the limit of 2000 units per side.
I am intersted to know the answers since I run into similar issues with a large modern scenario i designed.

[Ben Turner]

The distances from Russia (Moscow to Lisbon) and Norway to North Africa are at the limits of the map.

Gibraltar to Tabriz is just over 4500km, so that's fine.

If one was creative, the map could be drawn at an angle. That way the 4,500km limit would run from NW to SE. Bergen to Cairo and Lisbon to Moscow leave 600km to spare (you'll need it though). On the diagonal you can easily fit in as much as you like. 6,300km is more than you'll need.

Also at the division scale you will hit the limit of 2000 units per side.

Well, one could go for Rifle Corps for the Russians. That would save a lot of space. Battalions and things could be incorporated into the divisions.

[Heinz57]

Ben is the expert on the map making.

Some conventions are necessary both for size of units and for map scale with respect to the unit limit. On the Soviet OOB, I'm trying to keep divisions on a 1:1 ratio. Separate Engineer battalions merged into Engineer regiments and brigades; same for artillery with some rolling into Army HQ's. Rifle Brigades I'm grouping together in 2's and 3's - still having the historical lack of firepower and artillery. Air units on the divisional level.

Unless there's a good reason for any unit to be a 1-1, it's likely to get absorbed. For US and Commonwealth, I'm sticking with composite regiments - HQ +CCA/CCB/CCR for armored divisions and RCT's for infantry.

As a rule, most independent AT, AA, Arty and Engineers are either integrated with other units or combined to form larger units of their own type.

Same roughly applies for the Axis, but I'm employing some different conventions. I'm modelling the German Infantry Division as the Div. HQ + 2 composite regiments. Historically they had 3 regiments, but they also went from 3 battalions per regiment to 2. Optimally, a division would have only a 15 km frontage, but frequently enough, the German Army was forced to 20-30 km frontages for their divisions - and frequently unable to maintain or develop defense in depth from the 1941 Winter Counteroffensive onward. So, it seemed appropriate to limit Axis flexibility per division.

10 km scale would be best...but...well...use what we have.

[Ben Turner]

Unless there's a good reason for any unit to be a 1-1, it's likely to get absorbed. For US and Commonwealth, I'm sticking with composite regiments - HQ +CCA/CCB/CCR for armored divisions and RCT's for infantry.

This is likely to lead to you running out of units. Also at this scale I think divisions are more appropriate anyway- if the player wants RCTs then he can divide his units. This will make divisions which are spread out over more than one 15km hex much less effective than when they are concentrated, which is reasonable.

[Heinz57]

This is likely to lead to you running out of units. Also at this scale I think divisions are more appropriate anyway- if the player wants RCTs then he can divide his units. This will make divisions which are spread out over more than one 15km hex much less effective than when they are concentrated, which is reasonable.

Yes, I'm still on the first pass and a lot of things are still open for change. Offhand, I think doing that for the US infantry divisions would save about 125-130 slots.

I've started charting the Soviet OOB by unit type and found another solution for the Rifle Brigades. On active fronts, there's 321 rifle divisions and 121 rifle brigades (442 units) in July 1942; this shifts pretty radically by 1943 and by January 1945, it's 443 and 2 respectively (445 units). The same relative parity follows for what was held in the different reserves - so an upgrade path using replacements may be the best solution.

What I've not been able to find is a good reference for which regular rifle divisions earned the Guards distinction. In 1942, I'm counting 33-35, and by 1945 it is up to about 110. I've come up with a simple set of conventions to account for about 90% of it but it isn't historical.