View Full Version : 1st Turn
L'Emmerdeur
17 Jul 06, 19:28
Ok - Ill start with the dumb questions as I am a complete TOAW noob and have never really played hex based wargames of any description.
I assume that the starting point for turn 1 is to have a plan and that should involve identifying where the various points can be made and deciding what you want to go for and what you dont really need.
I also assume that it is probably best not to launch attacks from all four beaches in an uncoordinated manner. So, is it best to, for example, choose two beaches from where you will base substantial thrusts into France and use the other two beaches to support those attacks and maybe try some diversionary attacks to fool the German player?
What is the best way to use the ships and how can you take out the German fixed artillery positions relatively quickly before they can start to cause losses in your flanks.
I am still not really understanding when and why you would split formations and how best to manage that and then how best to move forward to consolidate territory without being hammered right back.
Also, the whole 10 phases of a turn stuff:confused:
As you can tell, Im probably gonna get my arse kicked but it should be fun:)
Ok - Ill start with the dumb questions as I am a complete TOAW noob and have never really played hex based wargames of any description.
...
As you can tell, Im probably gonna get my arse kicked but it should be fun:)
Whew! This one's still got milk in his mouth...:D
But seriously, you've taken the most important first steps that you can, in this game. That is, first realizing that there's a lot you need to know, and that you are in it, to have fun. From there, everything else will flow.
I'll try to get something together in the next day or two on how to get off the beaches, take the fight home to Jerry, and touch on the basics for you.
As the scenario starts, the Allis have already landed and the real need is to get out of the beaches so that reinforcements can arrive. Concurrent with getting off the beaches is the interest of linking up each beach. Read the scenario brief for important information relevant to supply on this.
You are correct in that you should prioritize your objectives. This is something that will probably be more possible starting Turn 3, after you've consolidated the beaches and have a good foothold on the mainland. The Allies receive ample follow-on reinforcements - and fairly steadily - so you have considerable flexibility in adjusting to Axis movements.
During the first turn, and even afterwards, you should be able to score a fair number of over-runs against small German units. To achieve these, select your armor first and proceed like you are going to attack. The overruns will occur as you right click on the target hex. It won't happen for all, but it is possible to achieve several. Do some hot seat play to get a feel for how this works.
Naval units are on force support, so will automatically lend their firepower to all attacks in their range (provided it passes a communications check - which happens in the background - we don't see it, except in combat reports it will show what has supported an attack...and defense). You can assign them to direct fire support, by selecting the naval unit and right clicking on the target and whether to use minimize/limit/ignore losses.
Maximum rounds per battle using this scenario version is 3. Typically, you can expect for a Minimize loss attack to consume 10% of the turn; Limit Loss 20% and Ignore Loss 30%. So it is distinctly possible to get 3 or more rounds of combat. Hot seat a few turns to get a feel for things and review some of the links in the TOAW College Curriculum for a full explanation.
Preferrably, you want to keep your formations together as much as possible - i.e assign 4th Division to fight one area; 9th Division to another; the Canadians to one sector; etc. At the very least, keep everything grouped together by background and icon color. That alone will keep you out of too much trouble...but if you start stacking Americans (green) with British (tan) - you will start encountering trouble - depending on your opponent.
(Looks like Jamiam's on the scene too... :)
viridomaros
18 Jul 06, 12:46
.
During the first turn, and even afterwards, you should be able to score a fair number of over-runs against small German units. To achieve these, select your armor first and proceed like you are going to attack. The overruns will occur as you right click on the target hex. It won't happen for all, but it is possible to achieve several. Do some hot seat play to get a feel for how this works.
something of relative importance here.
Even if you don't see it indirect fire support is taken into account when doing overunning attacks and both the attacker and the defender take losses. It's therefore better to set up your artillery and your planes on tactical reserve (artillery) combat support (planes) before trying any overunning attacks. Don't bother with the ships they'll bring fire support without you having to do something for it.
You'll have some more OA with this and your planes will increase their profeciency significantly
Dicke Bertha
18 Jul 06, 17:00
On the overruns, beware and don't get carried away. A clever opponent will bait you and have your strongest units chase rabbits all over the bocage. Set priorities as to what objectives you need to reach - when. In this scenario the horizon should at least be a few turns. Keep your formations together and if you want to try overruns on anything not aong roads or in your intended direction of thrust, try first to make the overrun with the unit divided (you can always recombine it without cost).
If things haven't changed too much from ACOW you're on steroids/shock, so don't be afraid to fire away. Use your ranged artillery in direct support and keep it to minimise or limit losses, and your ground troops mostly to limit attack mode. Use much artillery to overwhelm the defenses and cause them losses. Undig your opponent, before making the normal attack and but be sure to use equipment that hurts his units. The trick here is to not be in a hurry initially, do it right and you'll break the line and when so done, you'll be able to keep pushing relentlessly and far inland. Rightly done, he'll never be able to build that deep defence. Mess up and you won't get far inland after the first few turns.
I'd suggest you do some hotseating first. Just pick some spot and try different approaches there and compare your successes. Don't try the entire front. I'd say Omaha East is the best place to try your technique.
Now, the first part of the scenario, when we're trying to break out from the beachhead, is mostly about not failing to use the engine reasonably wisely thus putting ourselves in an unneccesarily difficult spot.
The fun part starts later, when we actually have to start thinking! :)
Use your ranged artillery in direct support and keep it to minimise or limit losses, and your ground troops mostly to limit attack mode.
Dicke,
Are you suggesting we set our attacks to "limit losses" rather than ignore losses? In hot seating this one I seem to be getting good results with ignore losses... Is it overkill?
Joss
Dicke Bertha
19 Jul 06, 01:53
No, I don't know yet the proper dose needed in TOAW3.
If ignore losses is working for you the all the better. That's what I meant with making some comparitive hotseats. If Ignore losses settings don't burn too many rounds for you then all the better, no overkill. Don't know if you are saved by the MRPT feature, or just overwhelmingly strong in your attacks.
Indeed sometimes in games one ignore losses attack will do more than several limit losses ones. I am not saying we should exercise ourselves to death with hotseat, just enough to get a feeling for things.
Yes - one thing to note is to download the new version of the scenario provided by JAMIAM - in the thread on the open forum. This version sets maximum rounds per battle to 3, as Viridamarous noted - that means each round will consume no more than 30% of the turn - reducing the potential of turn-burn.
Hello,
I just was notified that I should start playing, I should have come to the forum more often !
But well I will soon hit the beaches ! :laugh:
As for strategy, can I say "ignore losses and run to a port" is a correct one ?
JFrederiksen
20 Jul 06, 08:08
Well, off went my first turn.
I used my air units for extensive ground support, and used my navy mainly for direct support of attacks. Tried to make a few bombardment attacks on coastal batteries with little effect.
Good things:
- Managed to get pretty far inland
- Consolidated all beaches
- Established a corridor to all three airborne divisions
- Evaporated nearly all German coastal formations
Bad things:
- Took pretty serious losses, especially on Omaha were a few battalions evaporated and among the airborne divisions.
- Got an early turn ending with 40% of my turn left due to one die-hard German engineer battalion.
- As a consequence of the above mentioned, failed to get even a single air unit on interdicition, did not manage to make my last attacks, left a lot of units in mobile status vulnerable to counterattacks and have my navy positioned way too close to shore.
Lessons learned:
- Whenever you have less than 50% of a turn left, do not assume you will get another chance to move. Dig your units in, prepare your air force and take only calculated risks in waiting to conduct your last attacks.
- Naval units in direct support of ground attacks cause seriuos losses to the defender.
- My armour totally blew whatever resistance they encountered away, meaning they made deep breakthrougs. Left the mopping up to the infantry.
- Use mobile units to pursue his breaking units, as you can get really deep penetrations this way. You are, however, vulnerable to counterattacks and encirclements.
One last thing: Are we supposed to leave our turns somewhere where our "tutors" are able to see them, or are this merely done on request?
Sounds like you did pretty good! You make a good point about portion of turn remaining and ability to dig in. In some areas, the Germans will be hard pressed just to establish a defense, much less try going on the offensive. On the first turn, you probably won't have to worry too much.
As the game develops, you are going to get a good feel for where things are rough-going. You may see the Axis concentrating attacks on very specific areas. So in these areas, you always want to try to consolidate your positions as much as possible. If you keep one regiment per hex (3 bn), or 1-2 battalions plus divisional support assets...try to keep one dug in, use the others for offensives. Always have another unit ready to move into territory to dig in there, too - while continuing to press the offensive. One unit acts as your shield, the other as your sword.
What's your situation looking like in the Carentan area?
JFrederiksen
20 Jul 06, 08:50
It is looking pretty ok for me in the Carentan area.
I have managed to secure Quineville, am just outside Montebourg and three hexes away from Valognes.
I have firmly in my posession all four bridges across the Merderet as well as both over the Taute river. I am in imminent danger of loosing the bridge at Carentan, though , as I only have a sole airborne battalion that is defending against at least two German airborne battalions that are probably a whole lot more fresh than mine...
If I could only figure out how to attach map dumps I would gladly show you all how the game is progressing!
If you can zip your .sal file - you can attach it here. Well, not here, but in the next post...
Have we been cleared to begin operations??? I didn't get the telegram!
Joss
JFrederiksen
20 Jul 06, 10:00
I cannot get it to work. It will not attach when I press "manage attachments"... What am I doing wrong?
Got it. It was my virus scanner that was denying me the ability to upload...
Just played my turn 1 also !
Didn't bother much with Air on GS, they aren't that powerful, I put a couple Fighters on AS and F/B on Interdiction. I left Med and Hvy bombers on GS as recommended by the scenario briefing.
Things went pretty well on the Utah US side, even if I didn't take Carentan (I wonder how it can be done on turn 1 ?). On Omaha I pushed the defenders but did not press too much to avoid losses, Navy made most of the work.
On Juno and Sword I didn't really break through due to a couple of stubborn defenders. So I'm 2 hexes from Bayeux only... Airborne is approaching Caen on the east, but I think they won't be able to go far !
I had 2 rounds, as planned, I didn't micromanage to try to have a 3rd one that won't have given me much space anyway.
Losses were rather small and much less than historical (no slaughter on the beaches).
A little minimap :
Have we been cleared to begin operations??? I didn't get the telegram!
Joss
Yes, you may fire at will.
A few notes - don't worry about assigning air units to Air Supremacy - the Allies have complete control of the air, no Luftewaffe to contend with. Fighter type air units are useful for assisting in attacks against armor, while they might appear weak, they can be very helpful.
Dicke Bertha
20 Jul 06, 15:16
...
Hej!
Read your T1 description with interest. Could you say how many rounds you got and how they were dispersed? Also, your attacks, were they on igonore losses, normal attack? Curious to know also if the German engineer Bn was dug in when it burnt the rest of your turn.
Look at my Thread on how to take snapshots if you lack other tools for this.
And it sounds like you had a pretty good first round!
Dicke Bertha
20 Jul 06, 15:24
....
I had 2 rounds, as planned, I didn't micromanage to try to have a 3rd one that won't have given me much space anyway.
Losses were rather small and much less than historical (no slaughter on the beaches).
A little minimap :
Two rounds sounds little, and I understand that the first one already consumed much of the turn, the second the rest or almost all of it. Yet losses were low. Were you committing too little, and too cautiously (lack of lossess can make battles go on for longer as no side takes enough casualties to break off). I am a bit confused here.
That is indeed a minimap (searching for the magnifying glass) but form what I can make out, you're also making some nice progress inland... :)
This is my first turn. I think I had 5-6 rounds in this one since I was using "minimize losses" most of the time. Was very hard to get the bridges over the Merderet River. I didn't use direct bombardement with air and ships besides the last round. I was not sure if they still add their strength to attacks if they are assigned to specific battles, unlike artillery.
JFrederiksen
20 Jul 06, 15:34
My turn went as follows:
- from 100% to 70%, as I was attacking the beaches on ignore losses.
- From 70% to 60% with attacks on limit losses against units retreating or not dug in.
- From 60% to 50 % as above
- From 50% to 40% as above.
From 40% to turn end when I attacked a fortified engineer battalion with a tank battalion on limit losses. I should probably have waited with conducting this attack, but felt confident as I was very superior and was supported directly by two battleships and four heavy cruisers. He did sustain heavy losses, but is still fortified...
But I learned from it!
Dicke Bertha
20 Jul 06, 16:01
JFrederiksen, I see nothing wrong there apart from the overconfident last round... Sometimes it works, most often not. As a tanker you should know better than to attack dug in engineers! ;) It looks good anyway, and from what I remember from our previous engagement, your opponent better stay alert!
zavatad: I cannot comment yet on TOAW3 files, but I am sure someone will. And I hope you all will look at each others' sals and discuss, it is not catheder class! :)
Two rounds sounds little, and I understand that the first one already consumed much of the turn, the second the rest or almost all of it. Yet losses were low. Were you committing too little, and too cautiously (lack of lossess can make battles go on for longer as no side takes enough casualties to break off). I am a bit confused here.
That is indeed a minimap (searching for the magnifying glass) but form what I can make out, you're also making some nice progress inland... :)
Well, in fact my first round took 40%, the battles were mostly inf on "minimize losses" plus *lots* of arty on "ignore losses". This took some time (3 segments) but allowed me to break most of the 1st line defense. In the west and east I could progress by clearing paths with overruns then send the fast units forward.
Maybe I was too cautious, I preferred to avoid losses or weaken units too much, being rather blind about German reserves. I plan to observe where the german player will commit his big units, swamp them and then take risks elsewhere.
Plus my opponent told me he was a total newbie (which I ain't), so I played it safe (I hope it wasn't a trick ! :bite: ).
About the minimap it's not very readable, but the big picture is 8MB weight and I can't post it here...I will put them online soon on my webspace so it'll be much clearer.
JFrederiksen
20 Jul 06, 16:51
[QUOTE=Dicke Bertha]JFrederiksen, I see nothing wrong there apart from the overconfident last round... Sometimes it works, most often not. As a tanker you should know better than to attack dug in engineers! ;)
Alas, I thought that the Shermans of the British army were at least somewhat comparable to my own beautiful Leopard2A5, which would have cut through the pitiful engineers like a knife through warm butter, not even noticing the bump along the way...
But then again, this is not TOAW, so lesson learned, which is really what it is all about.
Dicke Bertha
20 Jul 06, 17:45
Well, in fact my first round took 40%, the battles were mostly inf on "minimize losses" plus *lots* of arty on "ignore losses". This took some time (3 segments) but allowed me to break most of the 1st line defense. In the west and east I could progress by clearing paths with overruns then send the fast units forward.
Maybe I was too cautious, I preferred to avoid losses or weaken units too much, being rather blind about German reserves. I plan to observe where the german player will commit his big units, swamp them and then take risks elsewhere.
Plus my opponent told me he was a total newbie (which I ain't), so I played it safe (I hope it wasn't a trick ! :bite: ).
About the minimap it's not very readable, but the big picture is 8MB weight and I can't post it here...I will put them online soon on my webspace so it'll be much clearer.
Sounds like you know what you're doing!
JFrederiksen: you too. And you have the coolest toy of all people playing TOAW, I am sure!
So I can go on holiday soon, good!
larryfulkerson
20 Jul 06, 18:28
So um.....I didn't know where to put the AAR kinds of things so I posted it in the AAR section of the forum, the pictures, movies, stuff like that. Also, since my first turn went for 8 ( eight ) rounds I thought maybe some of the new guys might wannu see for themselves how lucky I got so I'm attaching the PBL file so you can watch the playback of the whole thing.
I advanced inland somewhat and killed some German stuff and overall things seem to be going okie dokie.
I'm sorta relatively new at this as well so don't ask me any hard questions, I might lead you astray, but feel free to ask questions. Did that make any sense?
I really feel most of those eight rounds were due to blind luck and not something I'm doing right on my own, so....
Wow Larry - that's a very good turn! I can't see the settings for your aircraft - did you set them to combat support, direct support or interdiction?
That's wicked...ha...I don't think it needs to many comments or tips, will have to start asking you for help now! Dang...
larryfulkerson
20 Jul 06, 23:47
...I can't see the settings for your aircraft - did you set them to combat support, direct support or interdiction?
At the beginning of turn 1 I had them ALL set to combat support and left them there. During the sixth combat round I needed some direct support and selected one or two for that purpose. Round seven some of them started getting tired ( they were orange health-wise ) so I put the tired ones on "rest" and about the seventh round or so I put all the untired ones on interdiction status. There was only about 40% of the turn left in round seven so I couldn't count on another round so it was important that I set them to "I" then even though there were, as it turned out, two more rounds to go.
Oh......and I used "minimize losses" settings on all the attacks, land units, ships, aircraft, arty, etc. Everybody on "min. losses".
larryfulkerson
20 Jul 06, 23:53
...About the minimap it's not very readable, but the big picture is 8MB weight and I can't post it here...
Maybe if you convert the pig from bmp to GIF or JPG it'd be smaller. That's what I do.
Another thing you could do is convert it to GIF, host it at http://imageshack.us/
and just refer to it thusly:
[ i m g ]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5145/twoweeksinnormandy1944t3npwalliedarmym001rn3.gif[ / i m g ]
without putting any spaces in the img / img stuff. Like this:
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5145/twoweeksinnormandy1944t3npwalliedarmym001rn3.gif
Reporting in to command. Turn 1 sent off.... I have captured all four of he merderet bridges with the 82nd airborne with help froma cavalry btn. Three bridges to Carentan are in our hands. We are slowly working off the Omaha beachhead, and have captured Port en Bessin...
The British have moved quickly inland and have an east -west defensive line along the Creully road. Douvre has fallen and the 22 armored brigade has linked up with the 6th Airborne at Pegasus bridge. All in all seems like a good turn. I'll attach.
Joss out.
Bradley62
21 Jul 06, 11:08
1st turn for Allies.
My second turn. Not sure if I should have started a seperate thread for it...
Please let me know if I made any mistakes or if there is room for improvement.
Thanks!
Regards,
Zavatad
Z,
I really like your position in Carentan, and your position towards Cherbourg. You're going to have to put most of your 82 airborne more or less in defensive mode as they're all in red status and the enemy has cut the bridges (practically giving up St Sauveur from what I can tell) which will keep you from cutting the Cotentin at Barnesvile, say.
What is avialable to you though from your position at Carentan is the ability to pour across the bridges and head toward Lessay cutting the Cotentin.
One downside is the blown bridge at Isigny and your move away from Isigny. This will not allow the Americans to link Omaha and Utah which is somewhat critical. I also believe you have not captured Port en Bessin which I believe offers the Allied a supply benefit (anyone comment on this ??)
Your work with the Brits looks very good. I'd just be cautious of their depleted status - quite a bit of red showing.
Other than that I think you're looking pretty good. If I were the germans I'd probably look to be counterattacking with the 12th ss against your Canadian infantry... keep an eye on that sector as you've got British armor to the west of the lines and to the east but none in the middle looks a bit soft there.
Just my .02
Good show.
Joe
Have some problems at the Merderet Bridges but I'll hit em hard next turn...other than that I figure I had a ok turn... not totally happy but...
1st turn for Allies.
Bradley62 -
Curious what you got in terms of # of combat rounds, whether you attacked at minimize/limit/ignore losses? It's really important for you to be able to average at least two rounds of combat per turn, and the more the better. Maybe review some of the materials in the TOAW War College - and feel free to ask questions.
You should be able to get more Automatic Over-runs - where units retreat before combat. Before moving anything, make sure all of your artillery is set to "Tactical Support", your air units on combat support, and your navy within support range. Then, use your strongest armor and right click on any adjacent unit. At that point it'll either retreat or hold its position, but the Auto Overruns are important to get especially against the smaller units.
The other aspect is to continuously advance - secure the bridges. Your opponent will probably blow all the bridges you did not secure, so you will need to devote your engineers to repairing them so you can make use of those lines of advance.
You've done well in keeping your units separated by color/formation. Still, press aggressivly, don't worry about casualties too much as you will have many reinforcements.
Feel free to post questions!
Have some problems at the Merderet Bridges but I'll hit em hard next turn...other than that I figure I had a ok turn... not totally happy but...
Redstorm,
It looks like you got a good start - your units are organized by color; a good defensive perimeter around Pegasus Bridge and good advances on all beaches. Omaha can be tough, but you got important T1 advances there.
Only thing to watch out for is leaving your navy in range at the end of the turn, though that can be unavoidable with an early turn ending. Even if you lose a few ships - no biggie - but on that note, it's best to keep them distributed and not stacked together as that presents too much of a target of opportunity.
Good job!
Mark
Bradley62
22 Jul 06, 08:07
Heinz, thanks much for interesting and very helpful advice. I need to know exactly what a combat round is. During my turn I would move and/or set up attacks, then resolve those attacks. This pattern was completed 4 times. Even after those 4 repetitions I still had approx. 40% of turn left. So i just decided to end the turn thinking I had too many combat rounds completed. I was wondering if I had just completed 4 rounds of combat?, which of course the scenario is set for 3 per. Wouldn't the scenario restriction prevent you from executing more than 3 rounds?
Oh yes, Arty I would ignore loses. All other ground attacks were "limited".
Redstorm,
Just one more tip.... not sure if your turn ended abruptly, but you left your 82nd and 101st units without digging them in. Check for entrenching as you approach the end of a turn.
Good job.
Joss
Redstorm,
It looks like you got a good start - your units are organized by color; a good defensive perimeter around Pegasus Bridge and good advances on all beaches. Omaha can be tough, but you got important T1 advances there.
Only thing to watch out for is leaving your navy in range at the end of the turn, though that can be unavoidable with an early turn ending. Even if you lose a few ships - no biggie - but on that note, it's best to keep them distributed and not stacked together as that presents too much of a target of opportunity.
Good job!
Mark
mangus2000
22 Jul 06, 11:03
Heres my file, didnt take one of the bridges over the Merderat river and don't seem to have pushed as far as everyone else. Hope i'm not in trouble here:laugh:
How many combat rounds did you get? You should really send the .sal file; the .pbl file gets sent to opponents - limits what I can see in terms of your digging in and such.
Not a bad turn, but you may have some difficulties coming up on Pegasus Bridge depending on your opponent. Defense in depth is always preferable to massive defense "on" the objective. A major effort should have been directed to take Benouville (82, 34) and really a 2 hex perimeter around Pegasus. What you might expect is for an opponent to coming roaring up with panzergrenadiers on the left and panzers on the right of the river to toss the airborne out with flank attacks.
It looks like you had a hard time getting off the beaches - in not getting automatic overruns. At the beginning of a turn, it is good to make certain that your artillery is in tactical reserve. (or, if it was dug in previously, it can remain in defend/entrench/fortify status and still support nearby attacks). When trying to get automatic overruns - lead off with the strongest unit available, select it and right click on the enemy - that should produce the overrun -- if you're going to get one. If the enemy doesn't retreat once you right click on him, you won't get the overrun in selecting another unit.
Another item is to always get your units moving. Save units as you need to attack, but if you know getting an enemy unit out of his position will take the better part of a turn - you can try to slip past his ZOC. You might only get 1 or 2 hexes, but that is 1 or 2 hexes he won't be able to retreat to - so you can "herd" retreats to a large extent. This is especially important for getting control of the roads. The units on Omaha could have fanned out a bit - to get them off the beaches - it's very possible that the number of units still sitting on the Omaha beaches will delay some of the follow-on reinforcements to T2 or beyond.
Some of the TOAW War College curriculum covers aspects of maneuver warfare. The idea of meaneuver warfare is to win with the minimum amount of combat - or at the very least, to make it more advantageous for you to engage in combat - if not in this turn, the next turn or even the turn after.
Offensively, everyone wants to constantly seek to roll around the flanks, deny the opponent favorable terrain, roads, bridges, etc. Defensively, the Axis wants the shortest perimeter possible.
Concentrate on getting multiple rounds of combat in each turn; but equally - advance, even if sometimes that means risking a disengagement. As Allies you can afford a little misfortune - just not a lot.
So, these are some considerations - let's see what happens with the Axis turn and next time it would be best to send the .sal file.
Take it easy!
Bradley - no the maximum rounds per battle as 3 means that each time you press the "conduct attacks" button, at most it will consume 30% of the turn - it reduces run-on attacks. Done very well, you could possibly get 7-8 rounds of combat in. So, when you have the time to attack - don't restrain yourself for thinking that "you're getting too much out of the turn" - that just means you are doing good.
that each time you press the "conduct attacks" button,
Is there a special button for this? I usually click on "end turn" and get the multiple combat rounds.
Joss
Dicke Bertha
23 Jul 06, 19:29
It is the same button, with the double flag symbol. Unless you've created any battles, it will indeed ask you if you really want to end your turn. Don't click yes to that until you're positive you want to end the turn... :)
L'Emmerdeur
23 Jul 06, 23:47
I finished my first turn but I think I really suck at this game. Didn't seem to get as far as a lot of other sin terms of territory etc. had real problems securing the Pegasus Bridge area. I think I only got a couple of combat rounds:rolleyes:
I checked out Larry's first turn and wondered how the hell he did it - I tried to follow the reply to get some hints but it does not really help for that.
I am such a noob that I spend too much time trying to kill stuff and hence run out of rounds to do anything meaningful. The biggest thing for me at the moment however, is really understanding how to get the best out of moving your units. I know it sounds pretty basic but it is not really covered anywhere that I can find (I don't mean techy stuff like modifiers when you move through different terrain etc). What I found hard to work out using Larry's turn as an example was how so many overruns and combat results went in his favour. I can get overruns but have to avoid the tempatation to chase too much and end up with a unit stuck in the middle of nowhere ripe for the counterattack.
ALso, in games against the AI, my ships tend to get a hell of a pounding and I lose some of them. Should I be doing something with them or just leave them alone?
Anyway, Ill see what happens when I get my opponents turn (I asked him not to laugh when I sent my turn to him:o ).
BUT, although I am **** and the game has a STEEP learning curve (I am yet to even start the climb), I am enjoying it a great deal and, importantly, want to learn how best to play because I think it will be lots of fun.
My second turn. Not sure if I should have started a seperate thread for it...
Please let me know if I made any mistakes or if there is room for improvement.
Thanks!
Regards,
Zavatad
Zavatad,
You've got a good situation going pretty much everywhere. Except Omaha. It's not a bad situation there, however you are channeling your attack on too narrow of a front, making it easier for the Axis to slow you down.
You are doing very good in keeping your RCT's together. Consideration would be given to letting each RCT cover 2-3 hexes. The advantage of 3 hexes is that if you have a unit from the same RCT at say 51, 30 and another at 53,30...with one in the middle - you would get flank attack bonuses.
It is almost always useful to plan for getting flank attacks, as the advantage is to great to dismiss. As well, you could attack with a unit from 51,30 in one round (not receive the flank attack bonus), then attack from 53, 30 in the next round and get that bonus - useful when you don't have equal movement points.
As well, when you have units to spare, and in this scenario you should - it is always useful to try to bypass enemy positions...even if it means they won't be able to attack this round...it sets up advantageous situations for the next turn...to either surround, or at least get the flank bonus...or force the enemy to retreat.
Manuever warfare is a difficult concept to grasp at start, but it is the essence of blitzkrieg...to render fixed point defenses useless or near useless. First isolate...then destroy.
This concept is critically important to larger and longer scenarios in which replacement rates and reconstituted units are more relevant. Units which start their turn out of supply and are then destroyed do not get to have a portion of their equipment sent to the replacement pool - for distribution to other units.
In some instances (not necessarily this scenario...though still very applicable for the replacements) it is sometimes best to wait until units are cut off from supply to destroy units. Always advance what you can, and try to deal with these units behind your frontlines with "adequate force" - not too much, not too little...but just enough to get the job done.
Good Job!
Mark
JFrederiksen
24 Jul 06, 05:29
The best way to learn this game, in my opinion, is to learn the basics against the AI, get your confidence way up, and then play a scenario against one of the best. You will then probably get the biggest ass whooping of your entire life, I know that I did, but at the same time I actually learned a great deal. If you can then pick your opponents brain at the same time via extended e-mailing, and really study his turns, you are on the way to learning. This is what I am currently doing in TOAW (against Snefens, in our 2nd game of FITEv5.0), and I think it works really well. Of course your pride takes massive damage, but you really learn a lot. I am hoping to do the same thing via this tournament to get to know the intricate details of TOAW III, which in many ways are different from TOAW.
So, lose, learn from it, challenge a better opponent, lose again, and then you can hopefully start to win some.
Hope this helps.
Jacob
L'Emmedeur,
The best thing for understanding movement is to try a few turns of hotseat focusing specifically on movement. I explained a bit above, but #1 don't feel that just because you CAN attack that it is necessarily the best course of action. Movement lets you create favorable conditions for future rounds.
To bypass an enemy unit is very much a combination of playing leap frog and building a bridge. You might devote your Special Forces and Recon units to this specifically.
In a way, pretend like the enemy unit is not there.
1. Use UNIT #1 (infantry battalion) to advance to contact with the enemy and to hold that hex.
2. Advance UNIT #2 (recon) into the hex held by UNIT#1, and then move 1 hex further.
3. Advance UNIT #3 (whatever has the movement points) to advance into the hex now held by UNIT #2 (the Recon).
4. Advance UNIT #2 (the Recon) into the next hex.
This works when the enemy does not have a continuous defensive line...i.e. hedgehog defenses, the standard "roadblock", "speedbump", etc. If you have more recon units or units with the MP's to get into that third hex, you've effectively built the bridge and now have the means of using your recon to secure the road net beyond the speedbump.
This creates situations advantageous for flank attacks in the same or next round, and enables you to maintain momentum for your advance.
It is good when you can do this on one route of advance. When you can do it on a second route of advance, you create pincers with the potential to encircle significant numbers of the enemy.
liuzg150181
24 Jul 06, 23:37
Here's my end of first turn,though it seems rather lacklustre......
Liuzg150181,
It's not a terrible start - but you will face some difficulties. You've kept your unit groupings and you've done well on the north side of Utah beach.
Likewise, you did well in getting adjacent to Carentan, but your units aren't dug-in and will likely be counterattacked. You will need to concentrate on securing the bridges across the Merderet R.
You have a pretty good opening on Omaha, too - in getting off the beaches, as there can be some pretty stubborn defenders in that area and the bocage makes a fast advance difficult. Nevertheless, do what you can to secure the road net in that area and use a few units at least to press past any remaining defense next turn.
The British should have scored a few more overruns, and this is where things are likely to be very difficult for you - as they will most likely start digging in along Periers Ridge and you won't likely be able to press his left flank very hard until T3 given the distance you will have to advance to contact.
Concurrently, you didn't dig in the unit on Pegasus Bridge and you didn't really screen the perimeter - so that opens up a very good opportunity for an Axis attack first from the company adjacent to the bridge, and probably grenadiers which will jump into 83, 36 to score a flank attack - which is very likely to do the job.
So, consideration in the next turn will be directed to using very substantial force to retake and/or secure the Pegasus Bridge area - include some armor, engineers, and some additional units to provide a well-rounded force.
Then, establish a solid perimeter adjacent to his units along the ridge - infantry with perhaps some AA/AT assets. You can opt to go at him head-on - using shield and sword techniques. You might try wrapping around his flank - use armor, recon and mech - try to not let it get bogged down in static fighting. That's what your infantry is for. The wrap-around might see you swinging around to the west of Bretteville - avoiding his line, until you get behind it. Keep bringing follow-on forces to support this maneuver. It may take a few turns, but you're likely to see the defense of the ridge collapse a lot faster if you can preclude him getting artillery support to it and get opportunities to score flank attacks and the occasional encirclement. Once it begins to give way, its collapse will accelerate.
Getting Pegasus Bridge secure is probably your first priority.
I'm not sure how good i did on this let me know.
Well i would attach the file but it keeps telling me upload failed.
L'Emmerdeur
28 Jul 06, 09:38
As my Axis opponent had to bow out, I decided to play the AI and all of a sudden started to see how the game wrks. In my first turn I got about 5 rounds or so and surprised myself. I have attached pics of the beach areas for comment. They are taken at the beginning of Turn 2 for the Allies.
16741
16742
16743
16744
L'Emmerdeur
28 Jul 06, 09:39
I'm not sure how good i did on this let me know.
Well i would attach the file but it keeps telling me upload failed.
Check the file type and size as you cannot exceed defined sizes for defined file types. I saved mine as jpgs and they cannot exceed approx 390kb.
To upload your turn, you will need to zip up your .sal file and upload the .zip
L'emmedeur - I should have another opponent for you shortly.
I keep getting upload failed message.
Try e-mailing it to me at yazidee (at) aol (dot) com
liuzg150181
28 Jul 06, 12:50
Thanks for the advice in the absence of the appointed mentor,Jamian. I like your recommendation of the "hammer and anvil" approach,since that is what i have in mind~~~:smoke:
Regarding the digging-in issue,it was my oversight that i had forgotten about it,and it seems supply-wise the allies are in disadvantage than the axis.
Tentatively my opponent would be replying back tomorrow,we shall see whether he could identify and exploit my weaknesses.:devious:
shoelessjoe
04 Aug 06, 21:54
Naval units are on force support, so will automatically lend their firepower to all attacks in their range (provided it passes a communications check - which happens in the background - we don't see it, except in combat reports it will show what has supported an attack...and defense). You can assign them to direct fire support, by selecting the naval unit and right clicking on the target and whether to use minimize/limit/ignore losses.
Using hotseat, I've been working through some of Dicke Bertha's Omaha thread. Looking specifically at the 5 naval units off Omaha, I'm having a problem.
First, they start in mobile deployment. Is that correct?
Second, almost as if they are land units, the deployments that are available in the formation report for them are:
Tactical reserve
Local reserve
Mobile
Cancel
Dig in (!)
As I would expect, they don't support any in-range attacks on Omaha when they are in mobile deployment. But, they still don't support any in-range attacks if I change them to either reserve deployment. I'm looking at the full report for the battles--there is support from the air units across the channel that I've put on combat support, but not from these naval units.
I can get them to make direct attacks by selecting them and selecting the target, such as the artillery or infantry bns, but I'm doing something wrong with the idea of force support.
I'm using the 3.0.0.17 patch and the modified (TN3PW) scenario.
Any help is appreciated. In any event, since I'm so late joining the party, I'm going to make sure I get my turn to Pelle soon, since we are behind you all.
thanks
If you can upload the file where you are seeing naval units able to dig in, I can take a look....somethin' ain't right about that.
viridomaros
05 Aug 06, 04:11
from my own experience you can't give other orders than attack to naval units and they do support in mobile mode
shoelessjoe
05 Aug 06, 07:21
If you can upload the file where you are seeing naval units able to dig in, I can take a look....somethin' ain't right about that.
Attached are the SAL and a screenshot of the local situation with the unit deployment choices open.
The SAL has one attack from 52,23 to 52,24 setup with the naval units on TR and air on CS. Everytime I run the battle, the naval units refuse to help. The screenshot is just to show the weird land-like deployment choices.
I hope that's what you need. Thanks for investigating.
Dicke Bertha
05 Aug 06, 07:49
I think the various possible deployments for the naval units are simply a little beauty error, with no actual consequenses.
Also, I haven't read the manual, but those ships will support land battles within range - sometimes, not always, I guess there is a comm check or something. In your case, maybe they don't like that particular hex?
shoelessjoe
05 Aug 06, 07:55
Okay, before you spend too much time tracking this down...
I just loaded T3 from Joss. And with his turn I don't get the problem...that is the naval units all have mobile, moving, TR, LR and cancel.
Do I have an incorrect TN3PW or an incorrect 3.0.0.17 possibly?
Okay - for naval units, they pretty much always going to show as mobile. In the formation dialogue, you can adjust their settings - but as far as I've been able to determine - they don't really work with naval units.
Now, naval units will fire in support of anything in their firing range, provided they pass a communications check. This will show in the course of the Detailed Combat Report, which you might have to manually turn on, but in all my tests, I am seeing naval units providing artillery support when left on global...or when assigned directly.
shoelessjoe
05 Aug 06, 12:48
Okay - for naval units, they pretty much always going to show as mobile. In the formation dialogue, you can adjust their settings - but as far as I've been able to determine - they don't really work with naval units.
Now, naval units will fire in support of anything in their firing range, provided they pass a communications check. This will show in the course of the Detailed Combat Report, which you might have to manually turn on, but in all my tests, I am seeing naval units providing artillery support when left on global...or when assigned directly.
Thank you. I'm guessing they just weren't passing the com checks, because on other beaches, the naval units support and on the second round on Omaha, they start supporting.
shoelessjoe
07 Aug 06, 00:37
I'm the slow child :nuts:
Didn't get very close to Carretan. Didn't get far off Omaha. Spent too much time chasing RBC with airborne near Pegasus bridge and ended up without fortifying most. Also ended up overstacked in a bunch of places.
Concentrated on paying attention to formation support. Utah is nice because most are force or army there. On the East side, it's the other way around--lots of internal support.
Had only 40% after my first round but still got four more rounds. End result is I used up the MP on a number of units just trying to move them forward in the second round, expecting the turn to end, and in the last couple rounds had very little that I could attack with.
Was able to capture Formigny and Douvres, to drop Axis supply by 2%.
Here are the SAL and PBL. (is that overkill?)
Any and all comments are welcome.
shoeless
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