Question about the "Optional rules" in 3 different PzC.

[Cougar_DK]

I recently got Smolensk, Normandy and Bulge and is trying to learn this system by playing a friendly PBEM game (non-ladder) versus another SZO player. We have both something with The Bulge and have started our first game here. And now back to my question....

I've have started the two other games up just to see the map, unit density and the like and saw there were a big difference between what is considered "default" optional rules in those three games. Take a look at this:

Smolensk '41:
http://www.twins4ever.dk/pictures/PzC/Smolensk_ORD.JPG

Normandy '44:
http://www.twins4ever.dk/pictures/PzC/Normandy_ORD.JPG

Bulge '44:
http://www.twins4ever.dk/pictures/PzC/Bulge_ORD.JPG

Does this mean that using the default optional rules from Bulge in Smolensk will give a worse game, i.e. is the scenarios designed with the default rules in mind? Or can one just use the rules one wants with out thinking about the specific scenarios?

[KG_RangerBooBoo]

I believe I've read at the Unofficial Panzer Campaign site that the scenarios are designed with the specific default optional rules in use and that changing them might alter play balance.

[Wodin]

New additional rules came out as each new game was released. Thats why Smolensk has no rules ticked. MAny came out after the game was released.

Sadly though I think some rules make the game so much better it could make the scenarios unbalanced.

[Glenn Saunders]

Just to comfirm - more or less officially - Smolensk was game #1 in the Series and the optional rules when the first game came out were - well - optional.

When Normandy (PzC#2) was done it was determined that N44 was MUCH DIFFERENT in combat from Smolensk. Now both games were developed in parallel, so the ALt Fire rule we in the game system before S41 came out, but they were created for N44 ...and I will save you the discussion as to why this is the case.

Kharkov '42 was the thrid game of the series and by that time we started to establish that some Optional RUles were more or less becoming the defacto standard. But it was during the test when some testers used ALT FIRE and other didn't that we really began to see that the combat model provided for by the Alt Fire had a huge effect on the number of kills and thus the overall level of victory. Furthermore, we did a bunch of tests and found out that the Alt rules were DIFFERENT and not More or less Bloody! It depended upon a number of situations such as average target density and fire effects in different situations.

So it was here we learned that these FIRE rules needed to be established by title. And so the rules began to evolve as the game did. They were added but John Tiller was reluctant to force the chnages back on the early titles.

I don't have a full history of how they evolved but I think VST Supply was added in PzC#3 and I personally wanted to have it ON by default as it just made sense. But the PCs of the day were not as powerful as they are today and there was quite a delay at the turn change on the campaign. So John didn't really want to enforce that rule because it slowed down the game - but everyone used it by that time.

Night Fatigue came about after a great deal of Forum and NG discussion and it quickly became a DEFAULT pretty much on all games. Other rules, like Recon Spottig have very little effect but add to the game I figure without taking much away - so that too make sense.

Bottomline is, I would recommend you stick with the Optional FIRE RULES - that is IF as in N44 they are ON, leave them on. If as in most other games they are OFF - leave them Off. If you can't remember if they were ON or OFF use the default button.

ON the other rules use your discreation.

- I'd say Arty Setup should be left as it is by default

- I'd turn Recon ON always - as I said has damn little effect anyway

- VST is something I would say to use virtually all the time unless your using Exp Supply and there is a couple games, MG44, and Alamein, which come to mind. But otherwise I have very little time for this rule (but this is a PERSONAL opinion). But we trust MOST of the games with VST Supply and never test with the default supply.

- Optional Surrender was made to appease the guys that wanted the games to work like their favorite old board games - it was easy to do and it made some people who used this as a knock on the game system happy. But I rarely see it used.

- Low Vis Air effects just makes sense - nuff said.

- Optional Fire rules - I never use them but your welcome to fiddle.

- Locking ZOC, we switched around on this and we now leave it off. ZOC is a whole topic on its own - there are actually THREE ZOC cases - see the docs on this and if there are any follow up questions I'll be happy to address them.

- High Fatigue recovery was like the optional Surrender, added to appease those that thought Fatigue was too high - we never use them when we test nor have I seen a game lately where they were used.

- Indirect Fire and AIr Mission by Map - I always level these OFF by default

- COunter Btty - little effect but I like them and usually have them left on when we test.

- Night Fatigue - ON always

- No Low Fuel effects - we never use them but they were added when the Low Fuel Effects were added just incase people didn't like the rule.

- Exp Supply - I use them in some MG44 and Alamein Scn, but by and large I would rather plan teh game to fight the battles, not drive the supply truck;)

- Programmed weather - well, the early games don't have a Weather DAT file even though a guy made use one for N44. So if there is a game Weather.Dat file then I would always use this rule.

- Limited Air Recon was added so you couldn't use an Air Recon to find a known units and then HAMMER it with AIr strikes in the same turn. Some guys were nailing FIXED Germans in N44 this way because they knew where to find the units. Those same guys who were hammering the German AI this way with such a gamey tactic were also complaining that the AI wasn't any good - go figure! :( (...and we saw the btl files too). It was added I think in MG44 so that the Allied player couldn't use Allied AIR Recon followed by Allied Air Missions to support the Paratroopers in MG44, because people know all about the radio problems and although XXX Corps had power Air units available too them the Guys in the rear were on their own. This was the only way to do this in GAME TERMS.

- Quality Fatigue Modifier - woops - you guys haven't seen that one yet.

Anyway - there you have it - if you have any follow up questions (excpet on the new rule) I'd be happy to help you straighten out what rules might be best for what game.

Glenn

PS - sorry to be so long winded but I got going and couldn't stop:D

[Cougar_DK]

Thanx for the info Glenn, right now it all make sense :clown:

But again, its me, so I will get back to this later with tons of questions when I start playing with them.

Quality Fatigue Modifier

Sounds great! :nuts:

[Erhard Raus]

In games like Bulge or Rzhev it may be interesting to experiment without the night fatigue rule on as there are 3 night turns per day. Otherwise I suscribe to all that's been said.

Quality fatigue modifier? sounds good.

I think it might be more realistic a reduced effectiveness of fire systems during night turns to add dificulty to night combat. Assaults are currently harder at night, but firing is just as effective as during a day turn.

[Glenn Saunders]

... , but firing is just as effective as during a day turn.

It's actually about 50% effective when you consider the same kills happen on a day turn but in 2 hours vs. 4 hours of elapsed time.

Glenn

[Erhard Raus]

Ok, that makes sense then. Still I think that making night combat harder would be more realistic if players refrain from attacking at night so much (clearly too much in some cases). For example an aditional -20% could be applied to all fire into fortified positions (TRENCH, BUNKER or just diferent than open terrain) during night turns.

[Mike Cox]

Maybe I am superstitious, but I rarely melee at night since it seems that arty or defensive fire seems more likely to disrupt me.

[Dale H]

Glenn,

Thanks very much for taking the time to post this explanation of the derivation of the Optional Rules. It is most helpful. I just stumbled on this post & it got me to thinking it would be great if you managed to include this in your Articles Section on your Unofficial Panzer Campaigns Home Page. I just re-read all the articles there. This would be a very useful addition. Thanks again.

Dale



Just to comfirm - more or less officially - Smolensk was game #1 in the Series and the optional rules when the first game came out were - well - optional.

When Normandy (PzC#2) was done it was determined that...


... Anyway - there you have it - if you have any follow up questions (excpet on the new rule) I'd be happy to help you straighten out what rules might be best for what game.

Glenn

PS - sorry to be so long winded but I got going and couldn't stop:D