View Full Version : !!! VP Scores from Round 1 Required!!!
My apologies to you all, but I missed a detail in the planning of the tournament when Brent was setting up our WitW page, and I can't complete round one without a bit more information. We have the Allies VP scores, but not the Axis VP scores. And as there are points based on losses, I can't just do the math. :(
Points totals cannot be based on ladder points awarded (where I do have all the information), as most games are either 38/10, or 10/38. They must be based on the actual VPs earned at scenario's end, and I didn't think to ask Brent (WestPointer) to include these stats, or the players to report them.
So, I'm afraid I need everyone to post their respective VPs for both them and their opponents. If one of your two games was incomplete due to awol, please note that as well.
Again, I'm very sorry for being the cause of this delay, gentlemen, but we've never done a tourney based on a format like this before, so it's all new to me too! :whist:
I'll compile these as they come in, and we'll get this sucker put to bed asap.
(On a positive note, I know there are a couple of you still not done, so you have a last chance!)
Ahem...I thought the points listed were the actual point differentials. If that's the case, then what exactly do you need?
Sturlungur
10 Nov 03, 05:56
Hi Mantis.
The points are as the Allies against Faramir: Occupied objectives 79 + enemy loss 9 = 88 while Faramir gets: objectives 0 + allied loss 2= 2.
Unfortunately Hairball my opponent went missing in the other game after the T9 was completed but by then the status was: Hairball Allies: captured objectives 3 + German loss 1 = 4 as my German forces had objectives held 76 + allied loss 5 = 81.
Hope this information suffices for you to complete your calculation.
Skuli
CyberRanger
10 Nov 03, 07:55
Ahem...I thought the points listed were the actual point differentials. If that's the case, then what exactly do you need?
Yes, what I have listed are the point differentials. Seems like we could just combine those for each players' games.
For example, I had an OV as the Axis for 161 points and a draw (-14) as the Allies. So my total score is 161 - 14 = 147.
Yes Mantis the totals are differentials. Not only that, it is difficult to breakdown the point totals independently because the situation report gives only the objectives held and loss points but not the points issued by the game engines (special VPs for Pegasus bridge, etc.); these are reflected only in the differential score listed. So just hurry up and add all the differential scores! :p
Don't you already have saved game files? Subtract the Allied score from the Axis score to find the difference.
The differential is of no use. Take a game, and have the differential be 100. Ok, so now what? Players advance based on the highest combined VP totals from both games. if the Allies have 200 VPs compared to the Axis having 100, and in a different game, the Allies have 175 while the Axis only has 75; well, both games have exactly the same differential, but I'd be screwing the Axis player in one of them.
As the engine is fouled and doesn't add in the bonus points, players need to do that for themselves, and report the VPs.
The differential is of no use. Take a game, and have the differential be 100. Ok, so now what? Players advance based on the highest combined VP totals from both games. if the Allies have 200 VPs compared to the Axis having 100, and in a different game, the Allies have 175 while the Axis only has 75; well, both games have exactly the same differential, but I'd be screwing the Axis player in one of them.
How many ties can there be based on differential? Get it done. :p
Ties don't matter.
Allies 200, Axis 100, differential 100.
Allies 150, Axis 75, differential 75.
The lower the differential, the better you'd think the Axis player did. But not so. Even with a higher differential, the Axis player scored higher in game 1.
So the only thing that matters is how many points the Axis can get? That calls for an entire different strategy really since there are only 78 on board victory points. Let the Allies take Cherbourg as long as I can keep Pegasus Bridge. Hell let the Allies have St. Lou and Torigni too so I can turn Forest de Cerisy and Carentan into fortresses.
Menschenfresser
10 Nov 03, 11:07
Geeze, I'm totally lost here...
What is needed? I doubt I have my end game file anymore in any case.
Ties don't matter.
Allies 200, Axis 100, differential 100.
Allies 150, Axis 75, differential 75.
The lower the differential, the better you'd think the Axis player did. But not so. Even with a higher differential, the Axis player scored higher in game 1.
Uh...in case you forgot, the level of victory in TOAW is based on the differential, relative to the number of on map victory points. Nothing else matters.
If one set of players ended up with a differential of 20 in favor of the one player, and another set of players ended with a differential of 21, then the winner of the second set did better than the winner of the first set.
You simply define the relative scores of all players to be the sum of their differentials. Winners have positive values for their differential scores. Losers have negative values for theirs. Whichever 28 players have the highest scores move on.
CyberRanger
10 Nov 03, 12:12
The differential is of no use. Take a game, and have the differential be 100. Ok, so now what? Players advance based on the highest combined VP totals from both games. if the Allies have 200 VPs compared to the Axis having 100, and in a different game, the Allies have 175 while the Axis only has 75; well, both games have exactly the same differential, but I'd be screwing the Axis player in one of them.
As the engine is fouled and doesn't add in the bonus points, players need to do that for themselves, and report the VPs.
Why would you be screwing the Axis player in one of the games? I'm missing your logic. In your example both games DO have the same differential. In my mind, the number of points the Axis player has is meaningless until it is compared to the number of points the Allied player had in the same game. The differential detemines how well a player did ... NOT that players raw score.
It seems we will be hand calculating what the differential already tells us???
I'm confused. Was the goal just to see how many objectives the Axis could control with no regard to Allied performance? If Allied performance also matters than the differential is the only thing that should be calculated.
laszlo.nemedi
10 Nov 03, 12:33
Huhhh, I have not counted which is better for me :D , but I am on Jamiam side.
The difference is the right differenciator. If we count separatly, when we give bonus for the heavier games...
RavenStrike
10 Nov 03, 18:05
I have my end game files, but I'm lost in this conversation and don't know what you want us to send in now. You also have the end game files so what is it that I can draw from them that you can't?? :confused:
ER_Chaser
10 Nov 03, 23:27
oh no... I just deleted the file this weekend ... now what .... well, I just hope some1 still has it (either Shane or others..) or I guess I will just have to resign to round 2 then :p
Here are the results I had
JLB US against Hawkeye German
-------------------------------
Friendly(US) held 79 Friendly loss 3
Enemy held 0 Enemy Loss 8
US (me) Victory Level 174
So German -> -174
Vindex US against JLB German Stopped on turn 11
------------------------------------------------
Friendly (US) held 10 Friendly loss 4
Enemy held 69 enemy loss 3
US Victory Level -150
So german (me) -> +150
Is that you need Mantis ??. could you explain from this sample what would be the calculation ??
Best Regards
Der WanderDataSheet :D
Ehhm - I've deleted my saved games, so the chances of me calculating the victory points are zero.
Come to think of it, even if I had the games the chances of me being able to calculate the VP's would be pretty close to zero. I thought counting victory points went out with cardboard games. I can't count - that's why I bought a computer!
ER_Chaser
11 Nov 03, 11:45
you just so-downgraded computer's role :D (did you ever happen to see a movie called "matrix"? :devil: )
laszlo.nemedi
11 Nov 03, 14:23
Ehhm - I've deleted my saved games, so the chances of me calculating the victory points are zero.
Come to think of it, even if I had the games the chances of me being able to calculate the VP's would be pretty close to zero. I thought counting victory points went out with cardboard games. I can't count - that's why I bought a computer!
:D
I am suspicious: it is not you but your computer posts here :devil:
Argh!!
It's all based on VPs. I determine who goes on by how many VPs they earn, TOTAL, for both games. James - is it possible for two players, both playing the same side (Axis, say), to have the same differential, but have differing VPs? That's why I want to go by VPs.
I just spoke to HEAT about this, and explained the confusion about differential, and then explained what I wanted to do (go by straight VPs) and he couldn't understand the fuss either. "That's what you said you were going to do from the beginning". Well, I thought so too!
Round 1 (http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1987/44419/toaw-1.htm#Round1): Two Weeks in Normandy - 42 players. The top 28 combined scores will advance
I realize now that there is some ambiguity in there, and the chance for confusion is obviously a factor. My apologies to everyone, then; for that's my fault for not anticipating this, and being more clear.
So let me attempt to be crystal!
Some players no longer have their saves, etc; and I'm not going to punish anyone for what is essentially my oversight. So, for this round only, we will determine the players that advance based on differential alone.
But for all other rounds, I will be totalling your VPs to determine who advances!
If I'm missing something here, someone please educate me.
If I'm missing something here, someone please educate me.
If I follow your reasoning, as my both score are 174 and 150 so my VP differential must be 324 right ?
I just saw my summation was wrong
Der WanderLittleLost
Fine. You've all convinced me. The differential is far easier to determine than what I had in mind.
We'll go with that for all rounds.
(Where the hell was my head? I don't wanna do any math.... :D )
Ok, gimme a minute...
Yes I just saw that my summation was wrong 150 and 174 made 324 VP not 224, I'm little bit tired, :confused:
I have spent my afternoon/evening to see the transportation problem see http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4274 :hush:
Der WanderTester
If I'm missing something here, someone please educate me.
Okay...we'll take this slowly, and I'll use small words... :p
The scenario has 79 on-map objective points. It also has the possibility of scoring various small amounts for loss penalties, and has some rather substantial bonus victory point locations. Let's take the following situations as some hypothetical cases, to illustrate the problem with going by victory point totals, as opposed to going with differential totals.
Players A&B play game number 1. Players C&D play game number two.
Game number one goes like this: Allies advance along narrow fronts and secure 40 of the 79 on map objective points, and take St. Lo, Cherbourg, and Torigny for an additional 90 bonus points. Axis holds onto Carentan, Foret de Cerisy, and launch a counterattack that takes and holds Pegasus Bridge at the end of the game. This gives the Axis player 90 additional bonus points. The Allied player has 130 victory points, and the German player has 129. The game records a tie with a 1 point differential in favor of the Allied player.
Game number two goes like this: Allied player advances along wide front, securing 58 objective points, destroying a goodly portion of the German forces for another 5 point of Enemy Loss Penalties. However, he fails to secure any of the bonus points. The German player only has 21 on-map objective points, no enemy loss penalty, and has failed to keep either Foret de Carisy, or Carentan. Thus, the Allied player ends the game with 63 victory points, while the German has 21. The game records a differential of 42. The Allied player barely misses an overwhelming victory, but has a very secure substantial victory.
In game one, the players battled to a draw. In game two, the Allied player rather handily defeated the German player. However, by your proposed scheme the only winner of a game is relegated to third place because he has fewer victory points than either of the two drawn players in game 1.
It seems to me, that the only fair way to advance people is to order the players from best to worst is to score them them as follows:
Player C: 42 points
Player A: 1 point
Player B: -1 point
Player D: -42 points
Then, to find out the total points scored by each player in the tourney, you simply add these differential scores, for each game played. To continue the example. Say for instance that Players A,B,C,D respectively scored the following in their other games for the round (-6, 14, 10, 18), then the following would be the aggregate scores
Player A: 1+ (-6) = 7 points
Player B: (-1) + 14 = 13 points
Player C: 42 + 10 = 52 points
Player D: (-42) + 18 = (-24) points,
for a final ranking of C, B, A, D.
There...clear? :nuts:
Ps. Keep JL away from any automobiles or dangerous machinery... ;)
Ps. Keep JL away from any automobiles or dangerous machinery... ;)
WRAUUM 1ST ROAAAM2ndROOOARRR 3rdREEEUROOR4Th oops Flash speed limit overpassed, flap, flap, flap, return home by feet :D
go to the above link and gave your advices men
Der WanderGearBrakeWhell:nuts:
Okay...we'll take this slowly, and I'll use small words... :p
That's good, the big ones might confuse you. :DThere...clear? :nuts:
Crystal.
It always was, from my side. But you don't seem to understand.
I started this thread because I am not in possession of Axis VP totals. I thought all everyone's talk was about trying to tell me you could figure out how to either get me that information, or that you'd found a way that made it so it didn't matter.
I said in the very beginning, when this tourney was being planned, go after points. I said that I would advance people based on points. My error was in not preceeding the word 'points' with the word 'victory'.
I never asked people to do the best in this tourney, James. I asked them to go out and dog points. Grab as many VPs as you can, and this is what will get you to the next round. Brian understood this when I talked to him. Both of us were confused as to what any of you guys were even talking about. (I understood the potential for oddball results, but it was considered before I made the decision to run the tourney this way).
After reading what my thought process was in the paragraph above, let's look at a few of my statements.
We have the Allies VP scores, but not the Axis VP scores.
(I just asked for the Axis VPs).
we've never done a tourney based on a format like this before
(One based on VPs)
The differential is of no use.
(It's not. I want to know the VPs).
Take a game, and have the differential be 100.
I'm establishing an example where two games have identical differentials.
Ok, so now what? Players advance based on the highest combined VP totals from both games.
I'm restating the format of the tournament. This is how you advance. This is how you win.
if the Allies have 200 VPs compared to the Axis having 100, and in a different game, the Allies have 175 while the Axis only has 75; well, both games have exactly the same differential, but I'd be screwing the Axis player in one of them.
I go on to show that the Axis player in game 1 is getting screwed. He has more VPs than the Axis player in game 2 does. Differential was not showing me that.
My next example.The lower the differential, the better you'd think the Axis player did.
I'll use your own example to prove this point.
Player C: 42 points
Player A: 1 point
Player B: -1 point
Player D: -42 points
Player B and D are Axis players. Which one did better by your standards? Player B got a draw. Player D got a loss. So Player B did better. What was the differential in that game? 1/-1. And I said "the lower the differential, the better you'd think the Axis player did".
Back to the example:
The lower the differential, the better you'd think the Axis player did.
Allies 200, Axis 100, differential 100.
Allies 150, Axis 75, differential 75.
But not so. Even with a higher differential, the Axis player scored higher in game 1.
Because he has more VPs!
My next post:
Argh!!
It's all based on VPs. I determine who goes on by how many VPs they earn, TOTAL, for both games.
Again, I remind everyone of how to win this round of the tournament! >>V-I-C-T-O-R-Y * P-O-I-N-T-S!<<
James - is it possible for two players, both playing the same side (Axis, say), to have the same differential, but have differing VPs?
I'm trying to explain why the differential won't help me work out who won...
That's why I want to go by VPs.
And then tell you I need to find out the VPs.
Now have I made myself clear? :D
Seriously, though... Sorry for being a smartass, James, but now that you can see it from my side, it might explain why I seriously could not understand what in all hells any of you were talking about!
Ok, if we have that straightened out, I would like to go back to what we had planned, stated, and begun... We obvioulsy want to complete this round on differential, because basically, there's just no other way. But for the rest of the rounds, we'll complete the tourney in it's original format.
The highest total VP scores from both games will determine who advances!
Put me down for 300 total points then, sounds close enough.
Seriously it would be better to work closer with your aides next time. By not clarifying these rules to West Pointer, it caused him to post point differentials on his web site. This indicated to the general public that differential points counted, causing much confusion now.
Actually if you already have point differential AND allied total victory points, axis victory points can be determined.
Seriously it would be better to work closer with your aides next time. By not clarifying these rules to West Pointer, it caused him to post point differentials on his web site. This indicated to the general public that differential points counted, causing much confusion now.
There's the thing. I was planning to brush up on html, and do all of this myself. Brent simply volunteered to help with this, and if I wasn't so short of time in the first place... So I kind of just let him compile it himself, which has been of tremendous aid to me and all the players - again, thanks very much, Brent! You'll have earned a ribbon on your ladder page when we finish this up!
It's not his mistake, though; it's entirely mine for not foreseeing this potential, and being more concise with my language.
Again, sorry, gang! :whlchr:
Actually if you already have point differential AND allied total victory points, axis victory points can be determined.
I'm overtired, and sick as hell, Chuck. If you can also guarantee that this gets the VPs for special locations, etc, then please explain how. I'm not even going to try and wrap my head around any more of this until tomorrow. :stop:
Argh!!
It's all based on VPs. I determine who goes on by how many VPs they earn, TOTAL, for both games. James - is it possible for two players, both playing the same side (Axis, say), to have the same differential, but have differing VPs? That's why I want to go by VPs.
Okay...you seem to be fixated on how big it is, rather than what you can do with it, so...more examples.
Players A,B,C,D in the following matrix of games.
Match 1: A1 vs B2 (Player A, side 1 vs Player B, side 2)
Match 2: B1 vs C2
Match 3: C1 vs D2
Match 4: D1 vs A2
VP1 | VP2 | DS1 | DS2 (Victory Points Side 1|2|Differential Score 1|2)
139 | 139 | zero | zero , leading to a tied game for Match 1
39 | 79 | -40 | 40 , leading to an SV for side 2, Match 2
40 | 40 | zero | zero , leading to a tied game for Match 3
69 | 10 | 59 | -59 , leading to an OV for side 1, Match 4
Your method would add the total VP's for each of the players, yielding
Player A: 149
Player B: 178
Player C: 119
Player D: 109
Now, think for a minute what your scoring is doing. Neither player 1, or player 2 won a single game. They each lost one game and tied the other. Yet you would advance both of these players past the only players who actually managed to win a game? That's pretty foolish, if you ask me.
It's like saying to the teams in any sports league, "It doesn't matter what your win-loss record is like this season, we're only counting how many points you make total in all the games."
It doesn't matter if a team goes undefeated all through the season, if some other teams manage to score very high in some other games (even if they don't win a single game!) they will be the best ranked?
Get well. Hope you feel better soon, and can reflect on this with a clear head.
Cheers. :TRUCE:
No I thing big M is right... in his own way. He wants to count only victory points attained. So if you got 100 VP when playing as the Allies and 125 VP when playing as the Axis, your total score would be 225 points.
It would be like if the team that scored the most touchdowns in football won the championship; whether they gave up a lot of touchdowns doesn't really matter. Heck there could even be some cheating involved (if you let me score, I'll let you score) to run up the point total.
I have no vested interest, either way - having dropped out of the tourney almost a month ago. I'm only arguing out of principle, and a certain habitual obnoxiousness... ;)
You guys can determine who, how and why someone should be able to win the tournament, potentially without winning a single game of it. :surprise:
I sit in amazement, Just when I thought I had a handle on the tournament, I'm guessing again! Differentials are posted, two
different games are combined - simple logic - if I hold on to a forest
but my opponent cuts the penisula in half - tree hugging wins :rolleyes:
Menschenfresser
11 Nov 03, 22:01
Ok, I certainly see Mantis' point, but what I now don't understand is why you guys have the Allied point total and not the Axis...can't it be gleaned from the sals or savs we sent along?
...never mind. I shouldn't ask. Carry on!
James, results like that are anomolies, not standard fare. That won't happen very often, and we could run through this 100 times and I'll bet my boot straps that no one will ever win the tourney, yet not win a single game. You're taking it to extremes that are statistically unlikely. Would you care to wager that most people that have 'big' scores will be the winners, and the people with lower VP scores will generally tend ot be the losers? As I said (and your example illustrated), I knew there could be some anomolies, but that's fine!
As was pointed out a year ago when we had all these discussions (and votes, that how this format was approved; live in chat!), NO format is perfectly fair. There are always 'what-ifs'
I'm not saying this is the be-all and end-all of tournies, James. I'm not saying this is the closest thing to perfectly even-steven we've ever had. Do you know what it is? It's *different*, that's all. That's what it was intended to be.
I'm thinking just fine, thank you! Quite clear! I just never realized that it would be such an issue. Do we *always* have to do it the same old way, with the same old complaints? And even though we all admit the old way is not perfect, we shouldn't try other things, to see if they can be enjoyable?
Have you ever watched one of the basketball or hockey specials, where they take a bunch of players and they piss around doing 3 pointers from all around the circle, or they have speed skating contests, or most goals in 30 seconds, and crap like that? That's not team play, it's not winning games. But it's different, and it has a winner, and it can be a blast! And that's the rationale behind this tourney!
Your example doesn't make any difference, because that would only matter in a normal game/tourney, where all we focus on is the win/lose aspect. This one isn't focusing on that at all! Winning the game isn't winning? Why? Because it tells you, right at the very beginning, that you win on POINTS. Not on victories!
If I said 'go out, and grab all the red flags', what sense to argue about the blue ones? The tourney TELLS you to go for VPs to win. If you don't, then you won't win!
Everyone was sick of the same old standard team tourney OV/SV/blahblahblah thing, and wanted something different. You were there in chat when we voted (about a dozen or so of us) on this very format. You were there for all the discussions after the fact. You were there when we posted, months before the tourney started, just how we were going to run this one. And NOW it's an issue? The word 'differential', or any discussions of victory levels/conditions, etc; did not come up ONCE in all that time. It was stated that we'd simply 'total the points from both games, and highest scores move on'. And the vote to do a tourney on that format was unanimous. So why are my brains addled for administering the community's brainchild?
I didn't realize that I did not make myself clear from the beginning, when I set this up. That is my fault. Had I stated, right from the get-go, that 'This tourney is about VPs. We're shooting for 'highscores'! Whoever makes the big hits will advance, and you win or lose this baby by VPs, and by no other method!', I doubt we'd be having any confusion or issues right now. Everyone would've just gone 'Oh, ok, that's something a little different, let's have at 'er!', and that would've been the end of it.
So it's simply a matter of some misunderstanding at the beginning that is obvoiusly cleared up now, and it's no big deal, really. Everyone is pointing in the same direction; hopefully that's an end to it.
No I thing big M is right... in his own way. He wants to count only victory points attained. So if you got 100 VP when playing as the Allies and 125 VP when playing as the Axis, your total score would be 225 points.
That's it in a nutshell. And it was decided to try one this way in a chat session. This wasn't even my idea, I just tallied the votes and took notes.
I have no vested interest, either way - having dropped out of the tourney almost a month ago. I'm only arguing out of principle, and a certain habitual obnoxiousness... ;)
LOL!You guys can determine who, how and why someone should be able to win the tournament, potentially without winning a single game of it. :surprise:
Why am I defending this? It wasn't even my idea!! :nuts:
It's just a way to change it up! Maybe get a few differnt names in the winner's circle. This format has the potential to let an 'average' player win overall, shutting down all the experts. That's part of the fun! It's not always about 'let's design this sucker mathematically perfect, so the best, the most elite, will always achieve a victory... It's about 'let's get together, blow some **** up, and have some fun. When the dust clears, we'll see who fulfilled the victory conditions of the tourney, call them the winner, and move on'.
Does anyone have a serious issue with that? If this is a big deal to people, please tell me. By all means, we can change things, or just fold it, if the majority feel that way.
I'm now completely confused - doesn't take much! IMHO would
another scenario make more sense? :o
Menschenfresser
11 Nov 03, 23:07
No, no...carry on. At this point all we want to see is a list of names preceded by a numerical rank...even if it means rolling dice.
I got to blow up some ****...so I'm thoroughly satisfied. :cheeky:
Yeah, no doubt. It's probably just me and James raising all the stink in the first place. :D And that's kind of funny, since neither one of us in involved in the play from this point! ;)
Yeah, no doubt. It's probably just me and James raising all the stink in the first place. :D And that's kind of funny, since neither one of us in involved in the play from this point! ;)
All right, I'm still in so I'll make the call. ;) Count up the points and start round two. :p
laszlo.nemedi
12 Nov 03, 01:04
I don't care how you count point (thanks MikeJ, very possible I am out :cry: )
I have no specific recollection of the night in question, and from this point on will plead the fifth...of Bushmills!
For the sake of clarity, and future reference, please look at the attached screenshot and tell the club just which number, or combination of numbers you will be using to determine victory in this tournament's games.
Email me all the saved gamed files and I'll count them up.
Menschenfresser
12 Nov 03, 11:02
This little confused argument has given the first round end somewhat of a dramatic conclusion. I find myself anxious...clicking refresh every 10 minutes.
:bounce:
LoL Shane...I saw you viewing the attachment two hours ago. The answer isn't that complicated, is it? :p
Email me all the saved gamed files and I'll count them up.
Trust a guy with Al Sharpton as his avatar to count the points? I'd rather trust a Diebold Electronic Voting Machine... ;)
Trust a guy with Al Sharpton as his avatar to count the points? I'd rather trust a Diebold Electronic Voting Machine... ;)
But you would trust a giant insect? Sounds like it's time for a protest. :p
But you would trust a giant insect? Sounds like it's time for a protest. :p
The jury's still out on that one... :D
laszlo.nemedi
12 Nov 03, 12:02
The jury's still out on that one... :D
Maybe we should use human machine to count e.g.: Raver :D
Maybe we should use human machine to count e.g.: Raver :D
Great idea! Raver is so fast, he'd have counted the points for the second round, before the first one even began... :)
Great idea! Raver is so fast, he'd have counted the points for the second round, before the first one even began... :)
Actually I've got scores for all the rounds tallied up already... :o
laszlo.nemedi
12 Nov 03, 12:19
This little confused argument has given the first round end somewhat of a dramatic conclusion. I find myself anxious...clicking refresh every 10 minutes.
:bounce:
I like this thread, too. Jamiam in his best shape :p
Mantis a little bit slow :whlchr: but lethal (as an insect has to)...
:D
laszlo.nemedi
12 Nov 03, 12:20
Actually I've got scores for all the rounds tallied up already... :o
So who will be the president of the US?
So who will be the president of the US?
Jacques Chirac, the French were right for Irak :D
Houarfffff Houarfffff
:devil: Der WanderSadistic:devil:
Menschenfresser
12 Nov 03, 14:23
:flag::strokin::flag:
Seriously this has to be brought to an conclusion soon. The first round has been going for three months now. Even at the snail-like pace of one turn per week, players should now be done.
Seriously this has to be brought to an conclusion soon. The first round has been going for three months now. Even at the snail-like pace of one turn per week, players should now be done.
LoL...never underestimate the power of creative procrastination. I've been waiting over seven hours for a definition of "Victory Points" to appear...in vain.
I'm reminded of the Late US Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, in his famous opinion on what defined pornography..."I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it..."
Okay so do I need to send scores to someone or not?
Menschenfresser
12 Nov 03, 20:26
"I love it when a plan comes together."
RavenStrike
12 Nov 03, 21:33
The question is .... "will the VP issue take longer to resolve than it took to play round 1?" :laugh:
The question is .... "will the VP issue take longer to resolve than it took to play round 1?" :laugh:
As soon as his lawyers finished haggling over the definition of the word "is" they will get on to defining "Victory Points". Until that time, however, I think you're all going to have to wait... ;)
laszlo.nemedi
13 Nov 03, 00:41
As soon as his lawyers finished haggling over the definition of the word "is" they will get on to defining "Victory Points". Until that time, however, I think you're all going to have to wait... ;)
Until that we can play a new round 1 :D
Ok, just differential to determine round 1 winners. We'll go to the VP system for the subsequent rounds.
As for the definition of how to determine VPs for a given game, we never covered that in our chat session or any of the subsequent discussions. I'm inlcined to use the formula Friendly held objectives + enemy loss penalty - friendly loss penalty = VPs earned for that game.
I also appoint James to be tourney critic from now until infinity; it's his job to examine everything we're going to do and give me hell until everything like this is straightened out prior to starting. So if anything ever goes wrong again, it's his fault. :D
Ok, a brief peek at the WitW page shows that most differentials are already listed. I'm going to name all games that don't have the differential posted; in some cases I am aware of an AWOL situation, but in others, I have no idea. So if your name apepars, please either get the differential posted, or mention that your opponent went AWOL. (give brief details; ie: sent turn out 5 weeks ago, etcetcetc).
SIDE 1/SIDE 2
Foggy/Maestro - Axis OV, no differential listed
Antoni34/Hairball - Axis 162 turn 11 (Hairball AWOL?)
Chuck/Bruce - Draw, true zero?
Tigersqn/Mensch - Axis MV, ?
Fading Capt/Vindex - Allied OV 8 turns (Vindex AWOL?)
Hairball/Sturlungur - Axis 107 (Hairball AWOL?)
Mensch/Keef - Allied OV, ?
Triaxe/ER_Chaser - Axis OV, ?
Boromir/Liveline99 - ? (Did Liveline have to drop out?)
Liveline99/Xandamere - ? (Did Liveline have to drop out?)
Skyvon/Antoni34 - Axis 140, turn 7 (?)
Faramir/Chuck - Axis 167, turn 7 (Faramir AWOL?)
Dagger5/Cyrus - ?
Cyrus/Alf - ?
Any game where your opponent is AWOL will grant you an OV (for ladder reports) and you will earn the average differential for players of your side (Axis/Allied) that also scored an OV.
Please check to make sure that I have made no errors in the above post about the AWOLs, etc. Please check the War in the West page to ensure that the differentials and results are all reported properly.
And finally!
It is my pleasure to conduct my first Commendation Ceremony. I hearby award WestPointer with the Soldier's Medal for his organizational efforts in this tourney! I appreciate all the help, Brent, Congratulations!
To make things a bit easier, you can go and peek at your award here (http://www.warfarehq.com/inc/st/stats.cgi?member=WestPointer&la=toaw)!
Mantis,
Cyrus went AWOL/Dropped himself from Tournament
Results of game with Alf is accurately reflected on the War in the West Tournament Page.
Dagger5
Foggy vs. 06Maestro Axis OV Victory Point Level :cry: 108
Menschenfresser
13 Nov 03, 08:43
Keef or Tigersqn, do you have copies of our games?? Or possibly Brent, since you were able to report on the stats? If any of you could either report the differential of our games or send them to me, I'd appreciate it.
Otherwise, round one is just a wash...
Sorry for this guys, I just figured that once we sent them off to Mantis and Brent, they were being recorded. I deleted all of mine in a grand campaign to free space on my HD a few weeks ago.
I've lost my saved game files too - Chuck, do you have a record of our game? If not, I'm OK with a zero. (I'm starting to get depressive!)
Tigersqn vs Mensch
Victory Level : 17
Marginal victory
Foggy vs. 06Maestro Axis OV Victory Point Level :cry: 108
Waitaminute - I'm not going through this again! :D Do you mean the differential is 108?
Keef or Tigersqn, do you have copies of our games?? Or possibly Brent, since you were able to report on the stats? If any of you could either report the differential of our games or send them to me, I'd appreciate it.
Otherwise, round one is just a wash...
Sorry for this guys, I just figured that once we sent them off to Mantis and Brent, they were being recorded. I deleted all of mine in a grand campaign to free space on my HD a few weeks ago.
Brent has all the saves that were sent to him, so there's no problem there. I'll email him about it, but if either Chuck or Tig can answer this for you, Zac, that would be good too. Boys?
I've lost my saved game files too - Chuck, do you have a record of our game? If not, I'm OK with a zero. (I'm starting to get depressive!)
No one will get a zero. In an extreme case, where no saved files were sent, and the differential is not known by either player, then points will be awarded based on the average points earned for that victory level.
So, if you earned a SV against Chuck, we'll compare all SVs earned by your side, and award you the average points achieved.
But if you did get a save sent in (all players were requested to do this multiple times), then we'll have a record of it.
Brent has all the saves that were sent to him, so there's no problem there. I'll email him about it, but if either Chuck or Tig can answer this for you, Zac, that would be good too. Boys?
See post above.
:D
Lucky for you guys I never clean out my files. Thank God for that huge HD. :crosseye:
DOH!!
lol
I'm like that too. I save almost all my turn files. And I almsot cry when I get the odd crash, and they all end up wiped...
Menschenfresser
13 Nov 03, 15:19
I'm like that too. I save almost all my turn files.
Same here. In fact when I cleaned my HD several weeks ago, I had turn files going back to some of my first PO games in TOAW...that's like three years ago.
And I thought the dustbunnies under my bed were bad... :p
Foggy vs 06Maestro
Enemy held 16 Enemy loss 5
Friendly held 63, friendly loss 5
Axis 0V -108 points
literally taken from screen Allied T13
this thread is better than my narcotic cough syrup in causing
drowsiness :cheeky:
Actually enemy loss 6, bad cough syrup :nuts:
...this thread is better than my narcotic cough syrup in causing drowsiness :cheeky:
Looks like it's time to fire my joke writers and bring in a new crew...
Menschenfresser
13 Nov 03, 16:54
This thread is more like the ER waiting room.
"Doctor, my loss penalty doesn't seem to add up to my point total which is skewing my differential all to hell. Do I need surgery?" :dead:
This thread is more like the ER waiting room.
"Doctor, my loss penalty doesn't seem to add up to my point total which is skewing my differential all to hell. Do I need surgery?" :dead:
Too late. Your terminal ........BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP.....
:cheeky:
Sturlungur
14 Nov 03, 02:26
Mantis.
Hairball went missing after my German T9. The DIFFERENTIAL :nuts: was then 107. And I lost my chance of getting the Pegasus Bridge :cry:
CyberRanger
14 Nov 03, 08:38
Please check to make sure that I have made no errors in the above post about the AWOLs, etc. Please check the War in the West page to ensure that the differentials and results are all reported properly.
And finally!
It is my pleasure to conduct my first Commendation Ceremony. I hearby award WestPointer with the Soldier's Medal for his organizational efforts in this tourney! I appreciate all the help, Brent, Congratulations!
To make things a bit easier, you can go and peek at your award here (http://www.warfarehq.com/inc/st/stats.cgi?member=WestPointer&la=toaw)!
Thanks for the medal! I'm happy to be able to give a little back to the TOAW community.
I'm not quite sure where this thread stands. I don't have save files so the only item I can report are the differentials that have been sent to me. I'm heading to the hospital in two hours to have kid #3 delivered via C-section. I'll wait anxiously to see if I've advanced to round 2 ... not positive how it IS being scored. :cheeky:
I'm pretty sure Mantis has agreed to score this one by differential. Sturlunger, if hairball went missing you are due an OV no? WestPointer it doesn't sound like you are going to be available to update your site?
Most of the games posted on your site are game over with differentials or at least victory levels reported. Of the remaining most have been reported in on this thread (Jamiam, Chaser). I say the remainders are AWOL. It has been two weeks since the purported end of the tourney.
:angry: Post the results dammit! :mad:
This is not directed at you West Pointer. You are the man and now you are doubly the man once you get back from the hospital :smoke: -this guys smokin a cigar by the way. Congratulations on your new family member.
Mantis, the differentials are what people have been reporting on the site the whole time. I can add up all the scores based on the web site and new posts in this thread this evening when I get home from work. I have a little spread sheet that I used to make a previous post that listed scores in order. Do you want me to update that?
Menschenfresser
14 Nov 03, 08:59
Mensch(Allies) vs Keef(Axis)
102 Allied OV
(Thanks for the files)
Mantis.
Hairball went missing after my German T9. The DIFFERENTIAL :nuts: was then 107. And I lost my chance of getting the Pegasus Bridge :cry:
Both of Hairball's games will result in OVs for his opponents. You will be awarded the average differential achieved by players for your side (Axis/Allied) that scored an OV.
I can add up all the scores based on the web site and new posts in this thread this evening when I get home from work. I have a little spread sheet that I used to make a previous post that listed scores in order. Do you want me to update that?
Certainly, if you have the time. It's not really needed, as I have all the differentials from Brent's site, and posted all the games with that info missing. As you say, most have reported in, and the rest can be considered AWOLs. But if you already have the spreadsheet from your work on it before, then you could finish it if you were so inclined!
Ok, I've worked about halfway through the list. Of the games I've done, only the draw between Chuck and Bruce is an unknown. Chuck hasn't responded since Bruce's post; I've emailed both Brett and Chuck.
This will be finished today, round 2 starts tomorrow.
See the new thread, please.
RhinoBones
14 Nov 03, 13:43
Maybe you should quit screwing around with scores and just make everyone eligible for round 2. I’m sure there is room enough for all the core group of players and you already know who went AWOL. Get on with the game.
Regards, RhinoBones
laszlo.nemedi
14 Nov 03, 15:06
Just for the record:
I don't care how long the tourney lasts. I enjoyed both my game...
Certainly, if you have the time. It's not really needed, as I have all the differentials from Brent's site, and posted all the games with that info missing. As you say, most have reported in, and the rest can be considered AWOLs. But if you already have the spreadsheet from your work on it before, then you could finish it if you were so inclined!
I'm home from work early (hurray for rain!). But I've been roped into a project of changing my office into a room for my son. <sigh> I guess it had to happen someday. I can get to the scoring later tonight so if the 'official' scoring hasn't been done by then I will do my 'unofficial' work
and maybe that will get the 'official' stamp
Was away for a couple of days. No, I don't have the file. I'm pretty sure I emailed the final turn to somebody back in August.
Ok, I have everyone figured out except the games that require an average. I'm doing that now, and will post the results when I am done.
Here are the rankings, not in numerical order. The 28 listed pass into round 2, and my apologies to the rest, but you weren't able to make the cut this time 'round! (In John Paul's case, he missed by only a point! :o )
Allied OV avg = 129/-129
Axis OV avg = 132/-132
Axis MV avg = 17/-17
Sturlugur 176 /(132) 308 #1
RavenStrike 176/14 190 #2
ER_Chaser (129)/(132) 261 #3
JLBetin 174 /150 324 #4
Dagger5 (129)/126 255 #5
CyberGeneral 121/113 234 #6
WestPointer -14/161 147 #7
Joebob (129)/13 142 #8
Deconman 127/-51 76 #9
Foggy -108/126 18 #10
Xandamere 62/(132) 194 #11
Antoni34 (129)/140 269 #12
Chuck Draw/167 167 #13
Southern Dandy 51/17 68 #14
Alf -126/(132) 6 #15
John Paul (Sub.) -17/-122 -139 #16 (Brevet 122/110 232 #16 WITHDRAWS)
MikeJ 177/168 345 #17
Fading Captain (129)/36 165 #18
Tiberius 165/98 263 #19
06Maestro 147/108 255 #20
Mensch (129)/17 146 #21
Bruce -17/Draw -17 #22
Boromir (129)/-147 -18 #23
Redstorm -113/17 -96 #24
LaPalice -13/-62 -75 #25
Sergeant Major 49/-165 -116 #26
Keef -1/(-129) -130 #27
Tigersqn -17/-121 -138 #28
Congrats to all that made it to round two!
**********************************
This is the list of players that didn't make the cut for this round.
John Paul -17/-122 -139 (bumped up to player#16, sub for Brevet)
Hairball (-132)/(-129) -261
Triaxe (-132)/-177 -309
Vindex -150/(-129) -279
Ranger BooBoo -110/-176 -286
LaszloNemedi -168/1 -167
Jamiam -36/(-129) -165
Hawkeye -98/-174 -272
Touchdonw -126/-49 -175
Liveline99 (-132) /(-129) -261
Skyvon -140 /(-129) -269
Faramir -167 /-176 -343
Viridomaros -161/-127 -288
Cyrus (-132)/(-129) -261
Use the #value given above to determine your player number, and who your opponent will be for round 2.
The first number is side 1, the second number is side 2.
1 11
2 12
3 13
4 14
5 15
6 16
7 17
8 18
9 19
10 20
11 21
12 22
13 23
14 24
15 25
16 26
17 27
18 28
19 1
20 2
21 3
22 4
23 5
24 6
25 7
26 8
27 9
28 10
Whew !!! Just made it..... :D
I'm assuming you'll be posting the latest, "tournament approved" version of the round 2 scenario ? :rifle:
DOH !!!
I just saw the other thread.
:confused:
Oh man... :cry:
Hahahahahaha, you'd almost think I did it on purpose... (Can I sub in a game for Chuck, can I oh nevermind)
Whew !!! Just made it..... :D
I'm assuming you'll be posting the latest, "tournament approved" version of the round 2 scenario ? :rifle:
There is no later version to my knowledge than this one.
Oh man... :cry:
Chuck my Receceive my deepest thoughts
your French Friend
JLB
laszlo.nemedi
15 Nov 03, 10:44
Here are the rankings, not in numerical order. The 28 listed pass into round 2, and my apologies to the rest, but you weren't able to make the cut this time 'round! (In John Paul's case, he missed by only a point! :o )
...
MikeJ 177/168 345 #17
...
I am proud that I was the one who helped MikeJ the best results... :mad:
Congratulations boys who go forward in tourney!
ER_Chaser
15 Nov 03, 15:58
Oh man... :cry:
oh.. old friend again :) .... :hail:
oh.. old friend again :) .... :hail:
The shark smiles as he smells blood in the water.... :smoke:
I am bumping this thread, because it is the real source of round 2 start information. Maybe the two posts with the results of round 1 and the matchups for round 2 should get their own sticky thread.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.