View Full Version : How about three CM ladders
What do you think of having a ladder for each CM game? For those of you familiar with the Band of Brothers club, they have a ladder for each. Many of the members, including me, feel each game is different enough to warrant seperate ladders.
I think that's a great idea. Then we can see where everyone really stands.
:smoke:
I voted yes. I play cmbo and not too many games at once and I'm sure some of you are tired of seeing little change in that regard. As 2054172 said, it would show where everyone stands...and also give us new ladders to fight over. :bandit: :joy: :thumup: :bounce: :clap:
If it were possible to have my cake and eat it to. the Moderators are most likly pulling out thier hair right now.:D :smoke:
Nemesis Lead
25 Jun 06, 14:06
How about a ladder that does not always break down!:laugh:
How about a ladder that does not always break down!:laugh:
Maybe they could have one that has less bugs.
:nuts:
mangus2000
25 Jun 06, 14:27
I voted have it either way. Just more places for me to be at the bottom of:laugh:
More seriously, CMBO is a different kettle of fish but CMBB and CMAK are pretty much the same, game play wise, to me. Tactics is Tactics, you use your Troops and Armour pretty much alike in both games. Although I'm sure everyone will point out otherwise soon.
I voted have it either way. Just more places for me to be at the bottom of:laugh:
More seriously, CMBO is a different kettle of fish but CMBB and CMAK are pretty much the same, game play wise, to me. Tactics is Tactics, you use your Troops and Armour pretty much alike in both games. Although I'm sure everyone will point out otherwise soon.
There are large differences in small things like vehicle abilities.
... Although I'm sure everyone will point out otherwise soon.Yup! BB inf are whimpier and they also have those dirt cheap rusky SMG units which are way stronger than anything the Germans can throw at them. It's also the toughest system to balance with the armor. AK inf are the best to date and very well balanced FP-wise, but there are other things to contend with.
mangus2000
25 Jun 06, 14:53
But do those differences merit another Ladder?
I am inclined to say no on the grounds that they are still essentailly the same even with wimpy INF and SMGs etc
I would like to hear Kerrys views this as he's gonna be doing the work:laugh:
Those were a couple of quick examples off the top of my head. The games seem different enough to me over all to require three. I'll have to compile a listing of differences but that will take time. The BoB club apparently thought 3 ladders was a good idea.
Victor Charlie
25 Jun 06, 19:16
Ok but how many active players does BoB have?
Are there really enough players here to warrant 3 ladders?
Good question. I think BoB has a few hundred.
Ok but how many active players does BoB have?
Are there really enough players here to warrant 3 ladders?
BoB has 254 active players - but that includes Campaigns - of which there are currently 6 with say 60-90 players. So still easily 150+ who have reported at least 1 battle in the last 90 days...
...under those criteria SZO has 39 active players - although some of us BoB guys are re-activating here (me, Taktik and Deathdelaer) and at least one of your guys (Nemesis Lead) has become active at BoB.
SZO lists 106 CM players within the last two years and 266 all time.
The 3 ladder idea is further entertainment with new interests. Maybe it would draw more members?
We also don't happen to have a "must play X games per X time limit" rule here.
We'll see what the poll indicates: but this was all discussed earlier on before the new ladder was implimented.
At that time it was "not enough differences" to make it worth the time/effort.
...but this was all discussed earlier on before the new ladder was implimented.True, but things and considerations are subject to change. I don't think it will divide the community, but rather add new interest.
I don't see what I consider to be the best option on the poll. I would have a CMBO ladder and a second ladder that was a combination CMBB/CMAK ladder.
This was discussed here (well...at Warfare HQ) about two or three years ago. At that time I was of the opinion that it was best not to split the CM community with more than one ladder. With the passage of time and gaining of experience, I now conclude that CMBO is a far different game than are CMBB & CMAK, which are almost identical in terms of how they are played and how the units are modeled.
To be specific but not necessarily comprehensive, CMBO has a very unrealistic modeling of infantry. You can run them all over the map and they don't get tired. They can gang rush a HMG and take it out.
There are other significant differences between CMBO and CMBB/CMAK. These include lack of cover arcs, command delay differences, no armor death clock, off board arty differences, different unit commands (e.g. no "advance" or "assault"). The bottom line is that CMBO is far less realistic than its successors and plays much differently. On that basis it should be on a separate ladder.
On the other hand, there are few differences between CMAK and CMBB. Yes, in CMAK there are dust clouds and your LOS when firing can become obscured far more easily, especially in the desert. But all of this is relatively marginal. The fact that the areas and Allies covered are different in CMAK and CMBB do not make them different games, certainly not for ladder purposes. I submit that an early war CMBB game is generally far more different from a late war CMBB game than the late war CMBB game is from a late war CMAK game.
So my vote is "none of the above", but would be for separate CMBO and CMBB/CMAK ladders.
They all have some unrealisms, though BO may have the most. It also has the best play balance as a game if that means anything. I find BB and AK to be very different from each other. The selection of units is quite different and all three games have their own inf modeling. AK is different enough from the other two in that it's the only one without super heavies.
I'm sure there are many more differences if one wants to nit-pick, but for me this issue is more a question of preference then argument. Three ladders might create 3 x the interest. However, I wouldn't expect that to mean much to the KG clan from what I've read on various threads. Personally I like ladders, but I also play off ladder and enjoy those games too. Still, there's something about having a game count as points that adds a little something.
Rifleman95th
28 Jun 06, 21:38
I'm not a high volume CM player - but I enjoy the games. I belong to both the Blitz and Bob. I think I prefer the Blitz's single ladder the most.
Notwithstanding some of the game differences noted previously, to me the three versions still come under the umbrella of a single game. Hence, retaining a single ladder.
Should we have three steel panthers ladders (actually five or six or however versions are out there at the moment)?
Kind of get the feeling from the options provided that this is a loaded survey.
My two cents.
Kind of get the feeling from the options provided that this is a loaded survey. Not sure why. The question isn't should we go from 3 to 1 ladder, but the reverse. Option 5 is pretty definite. I tried to plot it on a gradient from one absolute to the other.
Maybe Dan can re-word the poll options then.
KGPanzerschrecK
29 Jun 06, 03:54
Three ladders might create 3 x the interest. However, I wouldn't expect that to mean much to the KG clan from what I've read on various threads.
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by this statement? Im not trying to cause controversy, im trying to understand what your saying. Just because none of us plays CMBO anymore doesnt mean we wouldnt like to see it still thrive, if thats what your getting at. If not, I mean no disrespect to you but please explain your above statement. Thank you.
Maybe Dan can re-word the poll options then.
He will have to get out his Dictionary again! A simple YES/NO would do Mangus.:nuts: :smoke:
Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by this statement? Im not trying to cause controversy, im trying to understand what your saying. Just because none of us plays CMBO anymore doesnt mean we wouldnt like to see it still thrive, if thats what your getting at. If not, I mean no disrespect to you but please explain your above statement. Thank you.There was no insult intended with that statement. :halo: I don't recall which KGer (sorry), but it's been made clear that there are no KG ladders at your site and that they bring out the worst in people. So based on the overall dislike I perceived by KG re ladders, I assumed this poll wouldn't really mean much to them.
Maybe Dan can re-word the poll options then.Why? Two options favor, two disfavor and one is neutral. What would make it more fair? :)
How about a poll to see if my poll is fair. :laugh:
Why? Two options favor, two disfavor and one is neutral. What would make it more fair? :)
How about a poll to see if my poll is fair. :laugh:
A poll to see if the only reason you want a different ladder system is because you are about to be knocked off the top of this one by Nesesis Lead and you may never regain it again, because not many play the OLD CMBO:bite: But as you know I speak my mind and I have said I will have you a CMBO game in the near future so you can kick me around a bit for speaking my mind. No disrespect intended... but just saying what most are thinking but don't have the BIG GONADS to say. :laugh: :smoke:
mangus2000
29 Jun 06, 10:31
Maybe Dan can re-word the poll options then.
And anyway why do I have to re-word it!:angry: It's Lurker who put the Poll up and he can do what he likes with it:laugh: :laugh:
PS: I did think that the options given were perfectly sound.
Why Dan, of course just to give you something to do besides spar with Wayne! :p
The poll currently indicates that:
24% care about having more than 1 ladder.
18% don't want 3 ladders and,
58% could care less, which usually implies they like the status quo.
Why Dan, of course just to give you something to do besides spar with Wayne! :p
The poll currently indicates that:
24% care about having more than 1 ladder.
18% don't want 3 ladders and,
58% could care less, which usually implies they like the status quo.
Or that 58% would except a change? Two sides to a coin.
mangus2000
29 Jun 06, 13:55
Why Dan, of course just to give you something to do besides spar with Wayne! :p
The poll currently indicates that:
24% care about having more than 1 ladder.
18% don't want 3 ladders and,
58% could care less, which usually implies they like the status quo.
Sorry Boss, I really should do more Housekeeping around here:nervous:
Maybe we should re-poll just to make it a bit more Black and White?
There was no insult intended with that statement. :halo: I don't recall which KGer (sorry), but it's been made clear that there are no KG ladders at your site and that they bring out the worst in people. So based on the overall dislike I perceived by KG re ladders, I assumed this poll wouldn't really mean much to them.
Lurker, thanks for the clarification. In light of it, I too need to make a clarification.
KG is not against ladders. Nor are we ladder driven in any way. It just isn't an important thing for us to run one or have an in-house rating of our CM players. Most of our CM players are on the SZO ladder, with some being more active than others. Some in our brotherhood, like KG_AGCent, love ladders. While others are very skeptical of them, such as KG_Panzerschreck. Most of the rest of us fall into the great middle between those two positions.
For at least two years, no one in KG has played CMBO against other humans. In part this is because many of our members are more interested in the Eastern Front. In larger part it is because of the quantum leap in game quality that occurred with the release of CMBB. I also think it's worth noting that in addition to improvement made to the CM series with CMBB and CMAK, they both cover much larger chunks of the war than does CMBO, which spans just the last year on the Western Front. CMBB covers all four years on the Eastern Front. CMAK covers five years in Africa and Italy. Further, with or with out some great mod packages that have been released, CMAK can be played in Greece and on the Western Front as well (albeit without a few of our favorite AFVs).
Doodlebug
29 Jun 06, 15:24
I'll be honest. I haven't played CMBO since CMBB and CMAK came out. The third ladder would be of little interest to me but I can see the appeal.
Or that 58% would except a change? Two sides to a coin.the way I see it.
A poll to see if the only reason you want a different ladder system is because you are about to be knocked off the top of this one by Nesesis Lead and you may never regain it again, because not many play the OLD CMBO:bite: But as you know I speak my mind and I have said I will have you a CMBO game in the near future so you can kick me around a bit for speaking my mind. No disrespect intended... but just saying what most are thinking but don't have the BIG GONADS to say. :laugh: :smoke:Interesting view Wayne. I never really considered that, but now that you mention it I can see how it would appear so. To answer your implication, that has nothing to do with it.
1) I like Band of Brothers' ladder method and think it's better than 1 ladder.
2) I actually felt more comfortable with someone in front of me on this one. There seemed less scrutiny/noise if I accepted a challenge from below the top twenty. The only top twenty to answer my game wanted so far (for cmbo) was LT Hunt.
3) I would still think think way if I were at the bottom of the pack.
If you have any more concerns of this nature feel free to voice them.
A poll to see if the only reason you want a different ladder system is because you are about to be knocked off the top of this one by Nesesis Lead and you may never regain it again, because not many play the OLD CMBO
Actually, if this were the case, then Lurker might have asked for an A/D ladder only, instead :halo: :D
Jesting, of course.
Looks like 2054172 found me out! :o :sneak:
KGPanzerschrecK
29 Jun 06, 23:14
I used to be very Anti-ladder. I have recently joined the fine ladder here at SZO after repeatedly being told for years that it is top notch. Once i have the time to play some games with players here, ill start logging time on the ladder.
Interesting view Wayne. I never really considered that, but now that you mention it I can see how it would appear so. To answer your implication, that has nothing to do with it.
1) I like Band of Brothers' ladder method and think it's better than 1 ladder.
2) I actually felt more comfortable with someone in front of me on this one. There seemed less scrutiny/noise if I accepted a challenge from below the top twenty. The only top twenty to answer my game wanted so far (for cmbo) was LT Hunt.
3) I would still think think way if I were at the bottom of the pack.
If you have any more concerns of this nature feel free to voice them.
I thank you for not taking offence, I respect your view and it seems valid. I :salute: YOU.
I want three ladders that way i can get you out of my to get to the top.;) :laugh: :smoke:
[QUOTE=Taktik]Actually, for an A/D ladder only, instead :halo: :D
That's a good Idea that would get a few of them out of my to the top also.
... but just saying what most are thinking but don't have the BIG GONADS to say. :laugh: :smoke:Don't trip over those nads. :laugh:
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