View Full Version : 2003 French OOB
Siberian HEAT
05 Nov 03, 01:04
Our friend JL Betin has taken some time out from exploring the Alps to deliver an impressive OOB for modern French armed forces. He is meticulous in his research and would be more than happy to make corrections if new research comes to light. Mantis and I have seen about 10 drafts of this beast! :surprise: Please stop by the articles section or the TOAW HQ Page (http://www.warfarehq.com/toaw/toaw_section_hq.shtml) to see it!
Thanks JL! :D
That's fantastic - I've been looking for a clear and authorititative French TO&E for a long time now.
I'm interested in the comment that an Armoured regiment consists of "a Headquarter squadron, a regimental level squadron for supply and repair, 2 armored bataillons". Am I correct in reading this and the rest of the TO&E to mean that armoured regiments are the only multi-battalion regiments, with the rest being 'regiments' in the British use of the term?
Also, do the various French battalions scattered in the overseas territories and provinces fit into the Brigade structure in any way, or are they intended for independant operations only?
(incidently, The structure of these units probably warrants a seperate section in the TO&E - the Marine battalion in New Caledonia for instance consists of a Command and Services Company, one Basic Training Company, one Reconnaissance and Back-up Company, one Light Armored Squadron, two Motorized Companies, and one Airborne Company [or so says http://wwwusers.imaginet.fr/~cairn/a1rimapn.htm ])
You might want to edit your link in your post, Case - it won't work until you take the ']' off the end of the url.
Also, I'm interested in what JL has to say about your questions; good stuff!
That's fantastic - I've been looking for a clear and authorititative French TO&E for a long time now.
I'm interested in the comment that an Armoured regiment consists of "a Headquarter squadron, a regimental level squadron for supply and repair, 2 armored bataillons". Am I correct in reading this and the rest of the TO&E to mean that armoured regiments are the only multi-battalion regiments, with the rest being 'regiments' in the British use of the term?
Yes the 4 regiments at 80 tanks are the only ones with 2 fighting Bataillons.
In French army the Regimental level is equivalent to most European/ US Bataillon level, or UK regiments.
Der Wanderer
Please note that in the OOB and TO&E, I jist consider the fighting components of the regiments.
The 5th companie the URRP ( unité de reserve des régiments professionels) and the training companies are not taken in account.
Why
Training companies will rest on barracks to train new reinforcements :D and ofently the professional soldiers will be replaced by some reservists.
Reserve company -> here the condition of use of the 5th company as defined by French Law. The URRP could be use to replace administrative elements that could be sent in first line, to be engage in anti-terrorism action, or in engagment of law intesity -> never in 1st line
Low intesity could mean peace keeping action, or rear area communication line protection .
For the Train Regiment (transport and MP units) and Genie (engineer)
the 5th company is included in my global OOB.
In case of mobilisation Specific units could be added as engineer ferrying units and Railroad untis. Reserve elements could be added to Head Quarter for specific use ( computer, translation lawyers etc....).
In case or crisis type 6 ( following NATO specification) main units will come from Gendarmeie reserve and form units that could be engaged on 1st line on French territory along with Proffessional units. But to get information about those untis, you can run very fast before to get any info !!!!!
It is why in my scenario I will improvise with 10 Regiments 2 armored with AMX30 2 mechanised and the rest motorized !!!.
It is not like Germany where reserve unit are well defined because they still have conscription.
NOTE The new French army reform has removed all reserve regiments (as I was in the 78èmeRIAD or 29th Dragons) from French OOB.
Der Wanderer
Also, do the various French battalions scattered in the overseas territories and provinces fit into the Brigade structure in any way, or are they intended for independant operations only?
(incidently, The structure of these units probably warrants a seperate section in the TO&E - the Marine battalion in New Caledonia for instance consists of a Command and Services Company, one Basic Training Company, one Reconnaissance and Back-up Company, one Light Armored Squadron, two Motorized Companies, and one Airborne Company [or so says http://wwwusers.imaginet.fr/~cairn/a1rimapn.htm])
I don't take in account the "Outre mer" based units, in my OOB, Am I right or wrong it is a personnal decision. But if you are interested with, I could spent latter some time to to do the same work
Bong oh! oh! Brian and Mantis have collapsed.:D
So I said that I could spent latter some time to to do the same work about units in Africa and French outre mer territories, it implies to froreign legion and there is a web site in English for foreign legion
But more or less the TO&E at company level for light armored unit could be used
Der Wanderer
I don't take in account the "Outre mer" based units, in my OOB, Am I right or wrong it is a personnal decision. But if you are interested with, I could spent latter some time to to do the same work
Bong oh! oh! Brian and Mantis have collapsed.:D
So I said that I could spent latter some time to to do the same work about units in Africa and French outre mer territories, it implies to froreign legion and there is a web site in English for foreign legion
But more or less the TO&E at company level for light armored unit could be used
Der WandererI quote myself fun.
Yes for the Light Armored squadron use the 36 wheled regiment TO&E
For Reco and backup squadron you can use the equivalent reco comp for light armored regiment I have just a doubt concering use of VBL intead of P4 (jeep like) but on the troupe de marine link you could get info.
For motorized companies use the light armored regiment TO&E, sometime some mortars could be added to give more firepower.
But I can't go further without be sure of data, sorry I'm too meticulous
a default or quality ? Ask Shane and Brian :D
Proof, I just go to the Pacific Marine Infantry there are more unit which have a roll of 4 month.
For the light armored there are only 6 ERC-90 with 4 120 mortars trackted or inside VAB ?
3 compagnies tournantes qui viennent de métropole pour une durée de 4 mois :
- 1 compagnie parachutiste à Plum (COMPARA)
- 1 compagnie de protection-défense à Nouméa (COMTTA)
- 1 compagnie d’infanterie motorisée à Nandaï (COMMOTO)
4 unités permanentes :
- 1 compagnie de commandement et de logistique à Plum (CCL)
- 1 escadron mixte blindés-appuis à Plum (EBM)
- 1 compagnie de maintenance régimentaire à Plum (CMR)
- 1 compagnie de soutien du quartier général à Nouméa (CQG)
It gives a permanent number of 900 soldiers there
Der Wanderer
Yes the 4 regiments at 80 tanks are the only ones with 2 fighting Bataillons.
In French army the Regimental level is equivalent to most European/ US Bataillon level, or UK regiments.
OK, thanks for clearing that up. Thanks also for the extra details on the French Marines in New Caledonia. BTW, what's the adress of that site on the Foreign Legion?
Deploying reservists in 5th companies to a regular batalion strikes me as being a good idea - the Australian Army used to have combined regular/reserve battalions, and they were aparently extreamly effective (the scheme was dropped in 1997 because of costs - all the reservists had to be flown to Brisbane several times a year to train with their battalion).
If you don't mind me shooting another couple of questions at you; do the four EMF HQs each have specific geographic areas of responsibility, or are they totally interchangable? Also, do the EMF's just consist of a HQ or do they have some division level units attached to them as well? (ie, armoured recon, logistics, signals, etc).
OK, thanks for clearing that up. Thanks also for the extra details on the French Marines in New Caledonia. BTW, what's the adress of that site on the Foreign Legion?
Deploying reservists in 5th companies to a regular batalion strikes me as being a good idea - the Australian Army used to have combined regular/reserve battalions, and they were aparently extreamly effective (the scheme was dropped in 1997 because of costs - all the reservists had to be flown to Brisbane several times a year to train with their battalion).
If you don't mind me shooting another couple of questions at you; do the four EMF HQs each have specific geographic areas of responsibility, or are they totally interchangable? Also, do the EMF's just consist of a HQ or do they have some division level units attached to them as well? (ie, armoured recon, logistics, signals, etc).1) Foreign Legion ->http://legionetrangere.fr/ dpending of your OS default regional value it will move to the English verision
2) About EMF EMF -> ETAT MAJOR DE FORCE = FORCE HEADQUARTER There are 4 EMF, it is a "free of organic charge" structure. An EMF is able to be projected as a whole and take the responsability of a force. This force could be up to a NATO division. EMF are not directly related to any brigade, it is a plugable HQ componant :DI have a document made by UK army (Joint Services Command and Staff College) about French Army.
It is a big one 1.4 Mb I don't think I can join it here . So send me your email I will send it to you ( Zipped it is 1.3 Mb)
Der Wanderer
I have a document made by UK army (Joint Services Command and Staff College) about French Army.
It is a big one 1.4 Mb I don't think I can join it here . So send me your email I will send it to you ( Zipped it is 1.3 Mb)
Thanks for that. However, I think that I've already been able to download those files from: http://membres.lycos.fr/France40/MSH/MSH.htm They're very comprehensive, but are unfortunatly rather hard to read.
Thanks for that. However, I think that I've already been able to download those files from: http://membres.lycos.fr/France40/MSH/MSH.htm They're very comprehensive, but are unfortunatly rather hard to read.
Yes even for me. But note that those pdf are drafts. Somations of units are sometime false.The latest one are on ths CDES web site.
I took lot of time to verify everything. It is why I sent many corrections to Heat and Mantis, as I travel on the web I saw differences between the organic structure and the real units. Especialy for Mountain and Parachute brigade.
The most difficult is to understand the acronyms as PFM -> Pont Flottant Motorisé. Motorised amphibious/floatting bridge, evolution of the Gallois vehicle. or VOA which means Artillery Observation Vehicle etc....
If you need help aks me, I will do my best
Der WanderArchivist
.
Impressive work JL.
I just could not help to wonder about the designation fot hese guys:
3ème Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (Airborne Infantry)
8ème Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (Airborne Infantry)
Airbourne infantry with flippers?!? :D :p
Impressive work JL.
I just could not help to wonder about the designation fot hese guys:
3ème Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (Airborne Infantry)
8ème Régiment Parachutiste d'Infanterie de Marine (Airborne Infantry)
Airbourne infantry with flippers?!? :D :p
Infanterie de Marine is a specific grup of units which was called too Infanterie Coloniale when France dad some Colonies :D
Many of those units fought in French Indochina.
Mostly recruitment or conscript came from western France especialy in Britany. My Father was in one of those units, one of my Grand Father was in an Artillery Coloniale regiment in 1914. And one of my Grand Grand Father fought in "La Coloniale" against the Chinese Black Pavillons in north Tonkin at begining of French occupation of Indochina.
Before the colonies the infanterie de marine were troops embarked on ships and in charge to land and conquer -> Navy Infantry -> in French Infanterie de Marine
So Infanterie de Marine is a generic name like Marines in US. Now they are the bulk units of the 9th Brigade Légère de Marine.
All kind of generic troops are represented except Genie (Engineer)
So there are Airborne regiment, Tanks regiments, Infantry and artillery regiment.
Most of those units made rotation to French Territories out France, New Caledonia, Tahiti etc.. and in Afican countries like Burkinafasso, Ivory Cost etc...
Hope it helps you
Der WanderViveLaColoniale
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.