I challenge the KG Clan

[Poor Old Spike]

Hey KG Clan,
I hereby challenge you to a series of Cmbb pbem fun battles :)
Nominate which of your members are up for it and I'll play each of them in a typical "buy whatever you like" summer mixed-terrain Aug 44 QB Meeting Engagement.
We'll keep the fights to a maximum 2000 pts and 25+ length or we'll be playing til doomsday.
And we'll put a 2-month time limit on it for the same reason, ie if a game hasn't finished inside 8 weeks because somebody hasn't returned a file in time, the game is awarded to his opponent as a Total win.
I suggest a scoring system of 0 for a Draw, and 1,2,3,4 for minor/tac/major/total wins.
Incidentally how many people hang with the Clan anyway?
I should be able to handle a dozen of you in the time frame, no problem ;)

Any questions or suggestions etc?

[KG_Kharkov]

So let me get this straight. You turn down KG_Cloghaun's challenge to play mirrored games with the parameters picked by a neutral third party to play your "ultra-fair" (and ultra boring) August 44 QB Meeting Engagement.

Are you a "trainer" in perfectly matched hypothetical engagements set only in mid-44 or a player of the game called CMBB? :laugh: Is that the time period in which you won your Iron Cross?

Just curious why you ducked the challenge squarely laid at your feet earlier by my friend?

[Poor Old Spike]

From KG Kharkov -...your "ultra-fair" (and ultra boring) August 44 QB Meeting Engagement...
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Read my lips mate - 9 out of 10 players LURV my params,as proven by the fact I'm currently playing about 20 ladder games to them :)
So you and your mates are definitely in a minority :)

[Boff]

my lips .. LURV my .. mates
Remainder of post deleted to protect the innocent

[KG_Kharkov]

Read my lips mate - 9 out of 10 players LURV my params,as proven by the fact I'm currently playing about 20 ladder games to them :)
So you and your mates are definitely in a minority :)

What part of my question about ducking KG_Cloghaun's challenge didn't you understand? :smoke: I'd "LURV" to see you play a real game of CMBB rather than your pet, boring parameters . . . . In case you didn't know, CMBB covers other years than 1944.

And I'm sure 9 out of 10 Germans supported Hitler at the start of the war too . . . . :nuts:

[Poor Old Spike]

Okay we get your message loud and clear mate - the KG Clan refuse my challenge with fair balanced params ;)

[Poor Old Spike]

From Boff - If anyone wants to make it worth my while I only live about 3 hours drive from Plymouth where this tosser lives, I could take him out for you and stop an International Incident.. or then again I may just do it anyway for the sake of my own sanity..
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(Yawn).. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/myflat-place.jpg

[Palantir]

the KG Clan refuse my challenge with fair balanced params ;)

Not wanting to take sides here but wanting this to be over:

A fair challenge would be a pair of matches-

POS sets up one game with his parameters & his opponent sets up the other with his parameters. The other player then picks the side they want.

Then if either "player" refuses we know they can only handle a "limited" set of game parameters.

Also, POS you should have no problem with NOT using your parameters based on your own words: 9 out of 10 opponents like them, so the "10th" player you play against must be with another set of parameters.

In this case that "10th" player seems to be found here all over the place.

(Note moved thread to proper sub-forum)

[KG_Leopard]

Okay we get your message loud and clear mate - the KG Clan refuse my challenge with fair balanced params ;)

Nice turn - it blames the KG for refusing a waste of time. :clown:

If it is such a great player, why does it need balanced params? It should be able to win even with a handycap...

[KG_Kharkov]

Okay we get your message loud and clear mate - the KG Clan refuse my challenge with fair balanced params ;)

Are you Fox News? "Fair and Balanced". :smoke:

Mirrored games are as fair as it gets. Whatever apparent disadvantage one side has is faced by both players. If the Germans are stronger in one period, then you get both the benefit and the drawback by playing a mirrored match. You aren't much of a trainer if all your training involves perfectly matched forces on perfectly matched battlefields. You might want to give back that Iron Cross and Knight's Cross before German Army Investigative Services launches an inquiry!

And yes, I won't waste my time on you. I have KG players to play interesting matches with that actually recreate history not some fantasy chess-like military world. :nofear:

[KG_Jag]

I suspect that POS follows the turnip truck into town and plays each person who falls off along the way.

[KG_Panther]

Mirrored battle, parameters picked by a neutral party. You can choose whatever forces you like under those parameters. What's the problem? Put up or shut up.

[Poor Old Spike]

It may have escaped peoples notice, but my standard universally-popular parameters are village/ medium hills/ heavy trees.
That guarantees an interesting game of chess-like manoeuvre, not a bland long-distance shootout across an open map.
Because of the extensive woods,plenty of infantry is necessary and a player who picks a tank-heavy force will very probably lose.
That's currently happening to me in a ladder game where my opponent (Wilhelm) bought an all-infantry force with plenty of schrecks and is cutting my T-34-heavy force to pieces..
The ideal force purchase would therefore be something resembling a Combined Arms force.
And like I've said before, my "unrestricted purchase" param means players are completely free to buy whatever force mix they like.
Games are won or lost at the buy screen and its a skill all in itself deciding what to buy, as well as being fun..
Thats why I object to people telling me what I can or can't buy.
So I say "Buy whatever you like, just like I'm going to".
It's the only way to go ;)

[Lurker]

.../ heavy trees.
That guarantees an interesting game of chess-like manoeuvre, not a bland long-distance shootout across an open map. I've always enjoyed heavy woods with chess-like maneuvers but I have a question, not just for POS but anyone else who has played heavy trees in BB. Doesn't that favor the Russians if he's selected SMG heavy units?
It's quite unlike CMBO where some players have complained about cheap German VG SMG hordes. In that case it's easy to counter by using Brit AB or US glider/paras, and the FP differential isn't that great. In BB on the other hand we easily can have 200+ points of FP per unit in favor of the Ruskies and that's quite lopsided. Also, if the forests are dense then there may be insufficient LOS for the superior HMG42s which could help to neutralize the SMGs. Over all it seems strongly in favor of the Russians unless limits are placed on the SMGs.
Any thoughts on this?

[Poor Old Spike]

LURKER QUOTE - heavy trees in BB. Doesn't that favor the Russians if he's selected SMG heavy units?<
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Specifically which Russki SMG units? And on defence or attack?
Generally SMG squads have fewer men (8-ish) and are therefore brittle in combat because they crack up quickly once they lose a couple of men, whereas the big 10/11/12-man inf squads can absorb more losses before breaking.
In a sense therefore, SMG squads are "one-shot glass-jawed units" because once they fire and become spotted their life expectancy is measured in seconds.
Sure their first shot or couple of shots can devastate an enemy, but they're incapable of taking a punch in return..
In fact in recent months I've become hooked more and more on 11/12 man inf units because they can absorb terrific punishment, AND can be split into two useful tough 6-man teams..

[Lurker]

Specifically which Russki SMG units? And on defence or attack? Just about any Commie SMG. The smallest is a 7 man at 350 FP pts while the more usual 9 man dishes out 450 FP of punishment. Even bigger, the AB unit at 11 men. I was thinking more along the lines of a ME rather than A/Ds. I would not take SMGs as my staple of inf on D. Perhaps a small counter-attacking force (plt?), but I'd prefer longer range punch. My consideration is that in heavy woods there will not be adequate LOS to the SMG units and the HMG42 would not necessarily be that effective without proper scope. In dense cover the SMG should rule over a unit 200 FP or more lower. True, with attrition the SMG unit loses a much bigger bite of FP then a rifle based unit but the question is will the smaller FP survive equal odds? It's not dissimilar to CMBO with the VG SMG vs US rifle. That makes a very interesting asymetrical fight, but with equal numbers and at close range I will take the SMGs. Much also depends on who has the element of surprise and the 'first' shots. A pinned unit can have 1,000 FP for all that matters.

[Poor Old Spike]

LURKER QUOTE - That makes a very interesting asymetrical fight, but with equal numbers and at close range I will take the SMGs
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There are so many tactical situation variables that the subject is difficult to concisely discuss here without specific examples..
In the pic below my Russki inf are big 11-man recon squads which can absorb anything the Jerries can throw at them (including arty barrages) better than small SMG squads..
Noob tip - If you haven't any tanks, crisscross the map with MG fire lanes instead.
Remember, your infantry have got the flags, so all they want to do is sit out the rest of the game quietly holding on to them in peace.
So use tanks, MG's, mortars to keep the enemy away from them.
Your inf should only fire when they have to, namely when the enemy is so close he's about to literally step on top of them..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/defence.jpg

[mangus2000]

[QUOTE=Poor Old Spike]LURKER QUOTE - That makes a very interesting asymetrical fight, but with equal numbers and at close range I will take the SMGs
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There are so many tactical situation variables that the subject is difficult to concisely discuss here without specific examples..
In the pic below my Russki inf are big 11-man recon squads which can absorb anything the Jerries can throw at them (including arty barrages) better than small SMG squads..



Surely your squads are gonna Panic after a sustained 81mm or higher Mortar barrarge. Even with 11 men when they panic and you have to drag them back to the flags they will still be in bad shape.

[Poor Old Spike]

MANGUS QUOTE - Surely your squads are gonna Panic after a sustained 81mm or higher Mortar barrarge. Even with 11 men when they panic and you have to drag them back to the flags they will still be in bad shape.
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Yeah but at least they're still around whereas a lighter unit will still be running :)
Same with boxing, a heavyweight can absorb hard knocks but a lightweight can't.
HEY why are we discussing tactics here where most people will miss it, shouldn't there be a sticky "Tactical Discussion" thread ?
Right Rocky? -

"I wanna prove somethin' -- I
ain't no bum... It don't
matter if I lose... Don't
matter if he opens my head...
The only thing I wanna do is
go the distance -- That's all.
Nobody's ever gone fifteen
rounds with Creed. If I go
them fifteen rounds, an' that
bell rings an' I'm still
standin', I'm gonna know then
I weren't just another bum
from the neighborhood..."

[mangus2000]

HEY why are we discussing tactics here where most people will miss it, shouldn't there be a sticky "Tactical Discussion" thread ?

We should really. Its been mentioned in the past, not too sure why we havn't done it.
I'll have a chat with Palantir.