So...for those that have it...initial impressions? [Archive]

GJK

06 Jun 06, 12:25

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 12:35

So, what's the initial impressions? Reading about it on the newsgroups it seems that the AI is beefed up, which is great. Is the editor fixed so that you don't get the memory errors?

I guess the direct question is: as an owner of TOAW-ACOW, is this worth the $40.00 upgrade price or is it more of the same? Inquiring minds want to know... :)
The resource problems should be fixed. It takes a bit more memory to run now, but I've plugged a couple of leaks, and made it take fewer resources, I've had up to 15 copies running a game at once before I ran out of patience. It gets pretty slow, but it doesn't crash.

Polynike

06 Jun 06, 15:24

i love it, only thing is i miss my grpahics mod from COW :(

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 16:21

i love it, only thing is i miss my grpahics mod from COW :(
Throw the changed files into the AltGraphics directory. That's what it's for <g>

nemo

06 Jun 06, 16:21

i love it, only thing is i miss my grpahics mod from COW :(What mod were you using? If you still have it somewhere you can use it in TOAW III pretty much the same way you're using them in CoW. It would be wise to make a backup copy of your Graphics folder beforehand though.

Besides, you can always switch / revert to either the new TOAW III graphic set or the Classic CoW (for old farts like me :smoke:) using the two setup installers (TOAW Graphics and Classic TOAW Graphics) in the TOAW III folder.

Graphical possibilities have been added as well as language support, which make the game moddable (spelling?) on a scenario-basis. See Operation Lion de Mer 2004 in the Version Française folder for instance.

nemo

06 Jun 06, 16:22

What Ralph said - shorter is often better!

jlbetin

06 Jun 06, 16:27

What mod were you using? If you still have it somewhere you can use it in TOAW III pretty much the same way you're using them in CoW. It would be wise to make a backup copy of your Graphics folder beforehand though.

Besides, you can always switch / revert to either the new TOAW III graphic set or the Classic CoW (for old farts like me :smoke:) using the two setup installers (TOAW Graphics and Classic TOAW Graphics) in the TOAW III folder.

Graphical possibilities have been added as well as language support, which make the game moddable (spelling?) on a scenario-basis. See Operation Lion de Mer 2004 in the Version Française folder for instance.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh mon bébé chéri (my beloved baby) !!!!! En Francais dans le texte

L'Errantd'oignon

Arthur Currie

06 Jun 06, 19:01

Downloaded it this afternoon, and yes, it does seem smarter. Weither or not it's worth the $$$ is a very subjective question. I've spent more for less in my life.
I'm happy with it.
;)

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 19:47

Downloaded it this afternoon, and yes, it does seem smarter. Weither or not it's worth the $$$ is a very subjective question. I've spent more for less in my life.
I'm happy with it.
;)
Playing only TOAW2 prior to TOAW3,i also feel the same for the PO,so much so that i was utterly trashed by it .yesterday :bite:

Foggy

06 Jun 06, 19:55

Playing only TOAW2 prior to TOAW3,i also feel the same for the PO,so much so that i was utterly trashed by it .yesterday :bite:
Just wait till you play a balls to the wall human:smoke:

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 20:06

Just wait till you play a balls to the wall human:smoke:
Whatever it is,after i had played the game i realised i am not a military genius,at least whoever programmes the PO can trash me!:angry:

Foggy

06 Jun 06, 20:11

Whatever it is,after i had played the game i realised i am not a military genius,at least whoever programmes the PO can trash me!:angry:
It's just a matter of learning the game - you'll play opponents that will help
you get better - and then you'll just want to kick their butt:bite:

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 20:15

Playing only TOAW2 prior to TOAW3,i also feel the same for the PO,so much so that i was utterly trashed by it .yesterday :bite:
Thanks! :smoke: You did play it on Strong PO, right?:yummy: I did everything I could do in the time that I had to give Elmer teeth.:ar15: If it makes you feel better, he's got some advantages , so you may want to give yourself a handicap.

Many of the scenarios may have been balanced for the 'toothless' elmer too.

I haven't wanted to talk about the PO before release because if you hype things, they're almost always a disappointment. I'm pretty proud of him though.

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 20:17

It's just a matter of learning the game - you'll play opponents that will help
you get better - and then you'll just want to kick their butt:bite:
That is also true for any competitive game played btw at least two players.:devious:

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 20:20

Thanks! :smoke: You did play it on Strong PO, right?:yummy: I did everything I could do in the time that I had to give Elmer teeth.:ar15: If it makes you feel better, he's got some advantages , so you may want to give yourself a handicap.
Yup,strong PO,but my ego wouldnt allow me to choose anything less,LoL~~~:D

Many of the scenarios may have been balanced for the 'toothless' elmer too.

I haven't wanted to talk about the PO before release because if you hype things, they're almost always a disappointment. I'm pretty proud of him though.
True,in that case i shall do the game and community a service by putting my final verdict on hold,though still impressive PO~~~
PS:Elmer?Dont tell me you guys name the PO "Elmer"???

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 20:22

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 20:52

Yup,strong PO,but my ego wouldnt allow me to choose anything less,LoL~~~:D

True,in that case i shall do the game and community a service by putting my final verdict on hold,though still impressive PO~~~
PS:Elmer?Dont tell me you guys name the PO "Elmer"???
Hey, let's not go that far;) Feel free to voice your opinion! I'm having fun against Elmer too, and I understand how he works! I'm trying El Alamein 1942n and not doing too well at the moment.

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 21:16

Hey, let's not go that far;) Feel free to voice your opinion! I'm having fun against Elmer too, and I understand how he works! I'm trying El Alamein 1942n and not doing too well at the moment.
Since you are in the development team it isnt surpising that you know how it works!:p
btw there is something which could be added as improvement,which is allowing the AI to be delegated to handling some of the units,considering that some of the scenarios are humongous. For starter,perhaps one can outline the objective and directives for the AI to execute?

Ben Turner

06 Jun 06, 21:23

Downloaded it this afternoon, and yes, it does seem smarter. Weither or not it's worth the $$$ is a very subjective question. I've spent more for less in my life.
I'm happy with it.
;)

Payed a huge sum for COW because I didn't know at the time it was available in the UK. Already in the improvements in the new version are more significant than those for COW- and supposedly more to come. So comparatively good value-for-money.

Ben Turner

06 Jun 06, 21:28

btw there is something which could be added as improvement,which is allowing the AI to be delegated to handling some of the units,considering that some of the scenarios are humongous. For starter,perhaps one can outline the objective and directives for the AI to execute?

This feature- either with or without the addition in that last sentence- would be a huge boon to designers. Imagine the ability to make formations suddenly switch out of the player's control and do something stupid. A Belgian Army which won't necessarily go along with the French GQG's plans. An entire scenario where the whole force is commanded by the PO with objectives regularly set and re-set by the player, to represent command and control difficulties.

Just how practical all this is- especially within the constraints of the round system- is another matter.

liuzg150181

06 Jun 06, 21:34

This feature- either with or without the addition in that last sentence- would be a huge boon to designers. Imagine the ability to make formations suddenly switch out of the player's control and do something stupid. A Belgian Army which won't necessarily go along with the French GQG's plans. An entire scenario where the whole force is commanded by the PO with objectives regularly set and re-set by the player, to represent command and control difficulties.

Just how practical all this is- especially within the constraints of the round system- is another matter.
I think your are being too pessimistic with regards to your last sentence,i thought Anglo-German War and some of HPS's games have such implementations?
Perhaps in PBEM game whoever initiates the game can impose restrictions or even disable it?

ralphtrickey

06 Jun 06, 23:01

Since you are in the development team it isnt surpising that you know how it works!:p
btw there is something which could be added as improvement,which is allowing the AI to be delegated to handling some of the units,considering that some of the scenarios are humongous. For starter,perhaps one can outline the objective and directives for the AI to execute?
I've seriously considered it for a future release. You can set all the controls for the AI currently in the designer, so there's no theoretical reason that you couldn't expose it to the player. I don't have the time or patience to play a FiTE, either,:crosseye: but controlling the formations might make it more practical.:nuts: It would also allow for 'Allies.'

Foggy

06 Jun 06, 23:26

I've seriously considered it for a future release. You can set all the controls for the AI currently in the designer, so there's no theoretical reason that you couldn't expose it to the player. I don't have the time or patience to play a FiTE, either,:crosseye: but controlling the formations might make it more practical.:nuts: It would also allow for 'Allies.'
Is "Elmer" even possible for "DNO" status (sp)

JAMiAM

07 Jun 06, 00:14

Is "Elmer" even possible for "DNO" status (sp)
Possible, yes. Practical...that's another matter.

Ben Turner

07 Jun 06, 04:15

I think your are being too pessimistic with regards to your last sentence,i thought Anglo-German War and some of HPS's games have such implementations?

Well, thinking about how this would actually fit into the game turn reveals some problems. First, when would the PO units move? Before the player's moves? Would you just select each formation and say "Let the PO move this formation this round" and see all the units rushing off to do their thing? Or would it be at the end of the combat round.

Second, under the current system, and with the current PO, this would screw up any attempt to manage rounds. You would have to be able to tell the PO what % of movement to use for its attacks, but this wouldn't prevent it launching round-burning attacks. I don't know how good the new PO is at avoiding these.

ralphtrickey

07 Jun 06, 09:51

Well, thinking about how this would actually fit into the game turn reveals some problems. First, when would the PO units move? Before the player's moves? Would you just select each formation and say "Let the PO move this formation this round" and see all the units rushing off to do their thing? Or would it be at the end of the combat round.

Second, under the current system, and with the current PO, this would screw up any attempt to manage rounds. You would have to be able to tell the PO what % of movement to use for its attacks, but this wouldn't prevent it launching round-burning attacks. I don't know how good the new PO is at avoiding these.
For a computer 'assisted' formation, I was thinking more that you would open the formation screen, and set objectives, stance, etc. from there. Then at the beginning of each round, the PO would move and commit to attacks, but not actually make them.

When playing with a computer controlled 'Ally' the ally would move last in each round.<g> Or they might run through their own set of 10 rounds independently before you go.

TOAW III AI is much better about turn-burn. It tries to get a minimum of 3 sets in. It's big problems are that it's using a one size fits all algorithm, and doesn't understand the max rounds per turn toggle.

Ben Turner

08 Jun 06, 10:07

When playing with a computer controlled 'Ally' the ally would move last in each round.<g> Or they might run through their own set of 10 rounds independently before you go.

So they'd act like a third force? Part of the work involved in this would also be useful for enabling multiplayer scenarios.