a possible new bug?

[viridomaros]

i'm playing against evil 00dawg, he's crushing me. In a desesparate attempt to grab some vp i made a paradrop in the airfield in the south of the Island
then his air units retreated to Catavia airfield and as a result he has now 12 units in 1 hex.
file attached: password arverne

[Telumar]

Weird.. Interesting is what happens when you attack the "12units hex". I first attacked the airfield with your bombers and the result was normal; the three air units defended their base.
But then, when i attacked with your adjacent infantry unit six of the nine ground units appeared in the combat report as defenders. They are the last six ground units if you go through the stack beginning with the air units. The first three didn't appear in the combat report.

Interesting would be what happens when 00dawg goes through the stack. Or to use the toawlog feature... Anyway it seems to be a bug, but why?

[JAMiAM]

Odd...

If you cycle through his units, until you pass through his air units, to the first of the land units, then attack, all 9 land units defend.

Is this scenario created with, and to be run with, a modded .exe? Or is it a scenario created with a stock 1.04 .exe?

[Telumar]

I opened it with the normal opart300.exe and..have to confess, i didn't look into the unit equipment, but i guess it is for the normal cow 1.04.

[Ben Turner]

Rhodes is designed to be played with a standard .exe. Opart 300 because I needed more supply points than are allowed in 100.

[Telumar]

Btw, the scen looks fine, Ben. How far have the playtests progressed? I wil give it a try when it's finished.

[Ben Turner]

Btw, the scen looks fine, Ben. How far have the playtests progressed?

Alright. The most recent problem is that I found the German divebombers were able to pretty much wipe out the Royal Navy even if the British player had air superiority. I tweaked a few things since then, probably most significantly giving both sides severe air shock during the nighttime turns.

[viridomaros]

Alright. The most recent problem is that I found the German divebombers were able to pretty much wipe out the Royal Navy even if the British player had air superiority. I tweaked a few things since then, probably most significantly giving both sides severe air shock during the nighttime turns.

the problem still remains. Matt had 2 of the 3 airfields, he had asked for maximum air reinforcements and as result had a nice air superiority. Still the german dive bombers even if they took severe losses were able to sink most of the allied ships.

[Ben Turner]

the problem still remains. Matt had 2 of the 3 airfields, he had asked for maximum air reinforcements and as result had a nice air superiority. Still the german dive bombers even if they took severe losses were able to sink most of the allied ships.

Well I just don't know how to deal with this. I'm loathe to play around with the attrition divider for fear of what the consequences for the land action would be- and I don't know if that would even work. With air superiority, the Royal Navy SHOULD be able to operate during daylight in the Aegean.

[Telumar]

A house rule..? :paperbag:

[Ben Turner]

A house rule..? :paperbag:

Yeah. Obviously, these aircraft couldn't fly all the way from Crete and back so many times in a half day turn. I might rule that aircraft based at "distance-to" hexes are only allowed to make one direct attack per turn.

[Telumar]

Maybe at minimize losses, this could help further. Further..can one say this?

We're getting off theme, wasn't there a bug reported?...:confused:

[Ben Turner]

Maybe at minimize losses, this could help further.

I don't think it'd be necessary. Further playtests will reveal how things go.

Further..can one say this?

Sounds fine to me.

We're getting off theme, wasn't there a bug reported?...:confused:

Well, what more is there to say? Obviously there's something fishy in the code used when aircraft are retreated from an airfield. It doesn't check the total number of units in the hex when deciding which airfield to flee to.

Did I mention I had four aircraft at one airfield a while back? Can probably find a save file.

[viridomaros]

Well I just don't know how to deal with this. I'm loathe to play around with the attrition divider for fear of what the consequences for the land action would be- and I don't know if that would even work. With air superiority, the Royal Navy SHOULD be able to operate during daylight in the Aegean.

i think the problem is in the code: from what i can understand/feel the bombers can hit their targets before the fighters can shoot them down.
the code should allow for interception of the bombers before they hit the ships.
i think Jamiam made a post in the past about ignore losses being usefull to reach the targets with your bombers. this seems to emply there is some kind of interception system ( his post was made regarding bridge bombing) but my attacks were made using minimize losses sometimes with no fighter cover at all and during the night. I still sunk the ships.
I also believe that air attacks are more effective in small scale scenario than in large scale ones. just try to sink ships in EA using air power

[nemo]

i think the problem is in the code: from what i can understand/feel the bombers can hit their targets before the fighters can shoot them down.You should try running the game with the toawlog feature on to be sure.

[Ben Turner]

but my attacks were made using minimize losses sometimes with no fighter cover at all and during the night. I still sunk the ships.

You shouldn't be able to do much during the night. I might boost the air shock.

I also believe that air attacks are more effective in small scale scenario than in large scale ones. just try to sink ships in EA using air power

The reason for this is that, unlike with land warfare, you're able to engage pretty much the whole force each round regardless of the scale. On land, if this were EA you'd be attacking one division-sized unit with another one and the whole force is engaged every round.

[RhinoBones]

Well I just don't know how to deal with this. I'm loathe to play around with the attrition divider for fear of what the consequences for the land action would be- and I don't know if that would even work. With air superiority, the Royal Navy SHOULD be able to operate during daylight in the Aegean.

Maybe bombers with a lower anti-shipping value can be substituted for the current bombers.

Regards, RhinoBones

[Ben Turner]

Maybe bombers with a lower anti-shipping value can be substituted for the current bombers.

Regards, RhinoBones

The problem is that anti-shipping strength jumps right from about 3 to 120. So I doubt there's any aircraft type which is satisfactory at this scale.

[shadow]

To comment on the original question, I saw the same thing in EA once, where i had 8 ground and 4 air units in 1 hex. I meant to post on it but the file was deleted b4 i could....