ToO: Italian Campaign

[Achilles]

Theatre of Operations: Italian Campaign

Senior designers Wulfir / Hoplitis

Chapters:

1. Rimini (Hoplitis; historical research)
2.
3.
4.

[Achilles]

Hoplitis,

have you received the first group of Rimini documents?

cheers,

[hoplitis]

Yes! After about an hour and a half of downloading!:surprise:
My internet provider will probably put me on the "wanted" list! :eek:.
My connection is slow so next time send them "litlle by little" please. Not only for the machine but my brain, too! :laugh:

[hoplitis]

I can't open ".ace" files. Can you send me "scan0009" in another format?

[Achilles]

I am sending the 009scan.zip

If you need more pages from that chapter send me a note.

cheers,

[hoplitis]

Got it! Thanks Pyro! :thumup:
Now I have scans 0009 to 0017. I noticed there is no scan 0015! Is this OK or have I missed something?:hmmm:

[Achilles]

Hoplitis,

Scan 6,7 and 8 are on their way...

Scan 15 is attached (uploaded) to that post.

cheers,

[Double Deuce]

Scan 15 is attached (uploaded) to that post.I can't read it, looks all Greek to me. :D

[hoplitis]

I can't read it, looks all Greek to me. :D

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::laugh:

[hoplitis]

I need an "educated" quess/estimation of the ANZAC core size when the campaign "reaches" the RIMINI chapter. Company? Battalion? plus arty support? plus tank platoon?

I assume that max map size in winSPWWII is the same as winSPMBT. Correct?

Wulfir? Achilles? SOMEONE?

[Achilles]

I need an "educated" quess/estimation of the ANZAC core size when the campaign "reaches" the RIMINI chapter. Company? Battalion? plus arty support? plus tank platoon?

I assume that max map size in winSPWWII is the same as winSPMBT. Correct?

Wulfir? Achilles? SOMEONE?

As the core force will be open, I can't tell you at this moment anything more than at the Italian campaign the player will have a strong core force.

Perhaps at a reinforced Battalion force.

Maps for WinSPMBT are the same with WinSPWW2

cheers,

[klanx171]

can we count Cassino here?

[Achilles]

can we count Cassino here?
Sure!:)

Go for it, but ask wulfir if he has something in mind.

cheers,

[hoplitis]

I have attached a preliminary analysis for the Rimini chapter.

Comments please!

[Achilles]

Excellent analysis Vageli,

Just try to keep the level of involved units (under player's control) to a maximum quantity of 2 Battalions (in total).

Soon we must decide what should be the evolution of the player's core force in terms of points.

I think that you may easily create 3 missions out of the whole Rimini battle.

CONTINUE THE GOOD WORK!

Cheers,
Pyros

[hoplitis]

Thanks Pyro,
and all the best for your birthday! :toast:

Excellent analysis Vageli,

Just try to keep the level of involved units (under player's control) to a maximum quantity of 2 Battalions (in total).

Soon we must decide what should be the evolution of the player's core force in terms of points.

I think that you may easily create 3 missions out of the whole Rimini battle.

CONTINUE THE GOOD WORK!

Cheers,
Pyros

Questions/clarifications:
When you say "whole Rimini battle" do you mean the battle(s) near the airfield or the town too ?
Can the static panther turrets be readily "simulated" in winSPWWII or not?
Can you use only a part of the core force in a certain camp battle? (probably not)

More questions later! :)

[Cameronius]

Hoplitis,
I believe that the Pantherturm will remain available as a unit in the winSPWW2 as it was/is available in SPWW2 v.7.:)

[hoplitis]

Ok! Thanks Cam. :thumup:

[Achilles]

Thanks Pyro,
and all the best for your birthday! :toast:



Questions/clarifications:
When you say "whole Rimini battle" do you mean the battle(s) near the airfield or the town too ?
Can the static panther turrets be readily "simulated" in winSPWWII or not?
Can you use only a part of the core force in a certain camp battle? (probably not)

More questions later! :)

1. You may pick episodes of the battle in any place you think appropriate.
Remember there are (at least) three parameters that will play a role concerning whether the historical battle could be fit for a scenario in WinSpww2:
i) the size of map
ii) the number of units involved
iii) the type of operation (what kind of action took place.

So in short talk, you may easily create three episode of the airfield battle (or whatever you like).

For example, the Platamon battle consist of 1 Bn Anzac plus the player's core force versus 3 Bn Germans and in this battle I will create three missions using part of these forces (starting from only the core force against a German commando invasion to the rear of the ANZAC force, up to the big battle).

2. Yes they are present (4 types of them).

3. No

cheers,
Pyros

[hoplitis]

I'm considering the possibility of a night action episode. Does the game engine allow for a "flare effect"? There is a reference about the Allies using search lights located out of defending axis weapons range. This had a demoralising effect on the defenders as they were trained to take advance of the darkness to conduct operations (raids, withdrawals, ambushes etc).

BTW would really want to know the power load on those torches!

[Achilles]

No I don't think that it is possible to introduce flares in the game... but I will have to check.

cheers,
Pyros

[Cameronius]

Flares and illumination rounds for arty and mortars! Now that is an interesting and valuable improvement to the game! I'll bet that it is possible in future versions.:)

[Achilles]

Cam,

I don't know because visibility is a global parameter and if such a thing as a flare was introduced then visibility should be flagged as local parameter, which will create several coding problems...

As a workaround, I would see something like a unit with extra high vision (like with winspmbt 30+), but following the Spotter plane principle (in other words a spotter plane with 30+ vision).

IMO this could model somehow the flare effect.

cheers,
Pyros

p.s I have a couple of days additional work with the Kalpaki scenario (re-organization of Greek units in company level) and then I will be back at the project) :smoke:

[hoplitis]

And a zero patrol radious (I hope that it does not cause a "division by zero" error)
But the main problem is that a soon as a flare is up everybody has the visibility benefit (I mean the enemy, too). I also think that units within the illuminated area might actually have their visibility reduced if they try to spot outside the illuminated perimeter (but I'm not sure about this "blinding" effect).

[Cameronius]

To keep things simple I thought it would work the same as a spotter mission except fired by mortars or other units during the spotter plane phase. Visiblity would remain universal and units could Z-fire into the spotted units during the following turn.
However, I don't know how you could have the flare reveal units to both sides.
Also this would be most advantagous for the human player, as the AI won't use Z-fire.
This is definitely something worth looking at!

[Mustang19]

The way I would do it is to have the flare fires prearranged. At a specified turn, some super-armored, immobile and super-stealthy single-man infantry unit with good visibility pops up at a point on the map (this represents a flare). At the same time, another similar infantry unit pops up on the map at the same point on the AI's side, to give the AI the same spotting capability. The computer may try to fire at this unit, but it won't accomplish anything because it's so heavily armored. The only problems are, 1, that the flare won't burn out after a while as in real life, and 2, the flare will continue to spot the enemy even when all of your forces have left the area. Also, the player wouldn't be able to call down flares at will, but in real life most artillery bombardments are more prearranged than spontaneous, and this isn't much of a problem.

It might be interesting also if a fire (like an ammo dump explosion or burning tank) would cause a temporary jump in local visibility. But like Pyros said that's probably too difficult codewise.

[hoplitis]

There is a thread at:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=418838&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

It is about weather/night effects in winSPMBT. The poster (Gooseman2448)has attached an Excel sheet where he suggests that "flare" effects are factored in the visibility/hitting modifiers.