WW2 ANZAC Project

[Double Deuce]

Transferred to Forums for reference/starting point.


I am currently working on 1940 Greek-Italian conflict and I considered to expand it.

From further historical research, I realized that in most WW2 battles in the Greek theatre (Thermopylae, battle of Crete etc) a lot of battles in the African campaign (El Alamein etc...), and some battles in the Italian campaign (Rimini etc...), the ANZAC and Greek forces were brothers in arms. So, instead of doing a dedicated campaign for the Greeks (with a limited interest from the audience) I decided to expand the project toward the ANZAC direction.

This will be a primarily ANZAC campaign (ANZAC HQ) with some Greek core force units attached to them. The battles will be semi-historical and the campaign will cover the following periods: i) Albanian front 1940 - 1941 (senior designer Pyros)
ii) Greek campaign 1941 - evacuation (senior designer Pyros)
iii) Battle of Crete 1941 (senior designer Pyros)
iv) African campaign 1941 - 1943 (senior designer Wulfir)
v) Italian campaign 1943 - 1944(senior designer Wulfir)
vi) Greek civil war 1944 - 1946 (senior designer Pyros)
vii) "what if" end with the USSR - 1946 intervention in the Greek civil war (WW3).
The campaign will be consisted of 20+ scenarios, will cover the period 1940-1946, will use the all the latest campaign innovations and finally will give the chance to the player to build up his core force (at will).

The period time for this project will be (strict) MAX 3 months and until the release of the game (WinSPWW2) the project group will be involved in historical researching and defining of the TOEs of each battle (scenario).

After the release of WinSPWW2, they will be involved in playtesting and perhaps some limited scenario design.

[Double Deuce]

Achilles - If you want to post the names of the design team and stuff here you can. I just though to leave that off the inital opening post to keep it clean for those as they enter.

[Achilles]

Everything looks fine!

Thanks DD :)

[Double Deuce]

Everything looks fine!

Thanks DD :)You should be able to start new threads and stuff as you need to. As contributors post in the thread in the open area I will allocate access via premissions (so no passwords to worry about).

Access will be strictly controlled around here. ;)

[Achilles]

You should be able to start new threads and stuff as you need to. As contributors post in the thread in the open area I will allocate access via premissions (so no passwords to worry about).

Access will be strictly controlled around here. ;)

What do you mean by that ??? :surprise:

No traitors to worry about ??? :devious: :laugh:

Anyway, this will be a high profile project, I am thinking of adding a post (in the public forum) under the title of "developer's diary" in order to inform the public of the project's progression.

cheers,
Pyros

[Double Deuce]

What do you mean by that ??? :surprise:

No traitors to worry about ??? :devious: :laugh:

Anyway, this will be a high profile project, I am thinking of adding a post (in the public forum) under the title of "developer's diary" in order to inform the public of the project's progression.What I mean is access will be by permissions so a password cannot be compromised or let slip in conversation on other forums, etc. This way no one has to worry that somehow managed to guess the password and gained access.

I would do a diary or some update kind of thread to gauge interest, feedback or to just let everyone know what's going on in there.

[junk2drive]

I'm here. :cheeky:

[Achilles]

I'm here. :cheeky:

Welcome but... nothing is ready yet so sit, relax and wait for the others! :laugh:

[wigam]

Hi i m here aswell. If we have nothing to do how about a game of tidly wink Junk2drive? LOL
Wigam

[Achilles]

Hi i m here aswell. If we have nothing to do how about a game of tidly wink Junk2drive? LOL
Wigam

Hi Wigam:cheeky:

[Double Deuce]

Achilles - Will the player use the same unit for most of or all of the campaign? If so, that would limit what units we can build scenarios around since that unit would need to be involved in the whole thing.

[Achilles]

Achilles - Will the player use the same unit for most of or all of the campaign? If so, that would limit what units we can build scenarios around since that unit would need to be involved in the whole thing.

Mike,

Unlike the LZ X-ray campaign, in this one we will make a blend of history and alternative events by creating semi-historical scenarios.

First we should define / create / design a scenario based on true facts / events (like for example the actions that Lee's force did at Dhomokos) and then we should try to see how the core force of the player's army may fit the historical scenario (this is why a historical scenario will turn to be a semi-historical scenario)

Since the campaign will give the possibility to the player to buy a core force of his choices, then we should always base the linked scenarios on a real setup and then the player will try to re-write HISTORY!

For instance in the Dhomokos scenario, we are going to start with the ambush on the advancing motorcycling units, the tank skirmish, the mortar barrage and then, at some point, when the core forces of the player's army will reach the front lines, they will have a special task to achieve (assisting in the withdrawal of Lee's forces).

Although, for these semi-historical scenarios / events we should balance the German force accordingly to the Player's Core force.

cheers,
Pyros

[Double Deuce]

Thanks. I was just curious what the plan was to track the player's force and allow him to feel ownership during the entire campaign without sacrificing too much historical accuracy.

[Achilles]

Thanks. I was just curious what the plan was to track the player's force and allow him to feel ownership during the entire campaign without sacrificing too much historical accuracy.

During the first scenarios the player's core force will have a smaller role, but as the campaign progress he will built up a sizable core force. But this is something to decide as the campaign progresses and at the point of the scenario designing phase.

cheers,
Pyros

[Mustang19]

Is there any thought of doing the Pacific ANZAC battles? IIRC that was where most of their fighting took place, and most of the ANZAC casualties in the war happened during the early Pacific war.

[Achilles]

Is there any thought of doing the Pacific ANZAC battles? IIRC that was where most of their fighting took place, and most of the ANZAC casualties in the war happened during the early Pacific war.

No, I don't think so (the pacific war could be a different campaign),

because of many reasons.

First of all, its better to stick in one theatre of Operations: the Mediterranean.

Secondly, the campaign timeline will start earlier and will include the Greek-Italian war (first ToO), so this will add to the ANZAC core force few Greek units that will follow it in the rest of the campaign (this was a historical fact in most of the battles in Greece, Crete, Africa and finally Italy - Anzac and Greek forces fought side by side).

Thirdly, the campaign will probably end following a alternate course of events (1945-1946), participating in a conflict between the ANZAC/Allies versus USSR in the Greek territory (Greek civil war). But this is something, still to determine.:cool:

cheers,
Pyros

[junk2drive]

I'm with Mustang. Your original call for helpers lead me to think this would be a PTO campaign. You never mentioned Greeks and the Med.
I really have no interest in the subject you have chosen.

[Achilles]

I'm with Mustang. Your original call for helpers lead me to think this would be a PTO campaign. You never mentioned Greeks and the Med.
I really have no interest in the subject you have chosen.

I am really sorry junk2drive.

The HQ will be Anzac, and the player will start to buy Anzac units from linked scenario No3 to the end of the campaign.
The starting Greek core forces will be no more than 2 or 3 platoons and the Greek-Italian Albanian conflict 2-3 scenarios.
The idea of making this ANZAC campaign was an extension of an existing project the Greek-Italian/Axis campaign, and this idea came to me because in all the battles, both ANZAC forces and Greek forces were brothers in arms (in fact the Greek forces were under the ANZAC command, or even included in custom ANZAC formations up to the battle of Crete).
In the battle of El Alamein they fought together and in Italy the same thing.

cheers,
Pyros

[Achilles]

I'm with Mustang. Your original call for helpers lead me to think this would be a PTO campaign. You never mentioned Greeks and the Med.
I really have no interest in the subject you have chosen.

Junk2drive,

After further consideration, you are free to start doing historical research on these PTO battles and then we may include them as a separate branch in the campaign.
The player will simply make a choice at linked scenario 0 and then he may chose to play through a modified path of lniked scenario (one branch will direct to Greece-Crete-Africa-Italy and the other to simply Pacific battles or (Greece [Italo-Greek_ToO_excluded] - Crete - Africa - Pacific).
You and anyone who wish to direct his effort toward that direction may start to do his homework. :)

I will start a PTO thread.

cheers,
Pyros

[wulfir]

I'm with Mustang. Your original call for helpers lead me to think this would be a PTO campaign. You never mentioned Greeks and the Med.
I really have no interest in the subject you have chosen.

ANZAC OOB combines both Australia and New Zealand. While the Australians were shifted to the Pacific, the New Zealanders saw limited fighting in the Pacific and due to manpower shortages NZ troops were earmarked for Europe, the Pacific fighting being left to other allied forces...

You got something against Kiwi's? :devious:

[Achilles]

If we manage to complete all phases of this project we could end up in an alternate fiction path in which the ANZAC forces and their Allies will fight the USSR (as an aftermath of the Greek civil war - 1946).
The reason of this alternate history is the fact that this scenario could had actually happened if the Russian were willing to support the communist during the Greek civil war. If such a thing had happened, then the ANZAC forces would have been involved in the conflict (WW3?) instead of returning back to home.

There are three very important factors that we should take into consideration:

1. We shall use the already made maps from the ToO Greece (no need for new maps)
2. We don't need to do any historical research, since this is pure fiction.
3. No-one has ever setup a fight between the ANZAC and the Russians, so this could probably turn to be interesting!

But, there is a long way...ahead of us.

cheers,
Pyros

[Achilles]

Junk2drive,

I wish to thank you for the good-will criticism because it made me think further on this project. :)

So, after further consideration, I think that I came up with another solution concerning your objection (at least as far the Greeks).

Simply, at link scenario 0, the player will have to make a choice, either to include the Italian-Greek conflict or else, to skip that conflict and start the campaign from the first battle of the ToO: Greece.

What will be the difference:
If the player choose to include the Greco-Italian conflict then he will be able to play 2-3 more scenarios and train the initial core force to a higher level. Then at the first scenario of ToO: Greece he will be granted a number of points in order to buy his Anzac forces.

If the player decides to skip the Greco-Italian conflict, he will go directly to the first scenario of the ToO: Greece and there he will buy his ANZAC core force.

cheers,
Pyros

[junk2drive]

I have no objection to the Greeks! Sorry if it sounded that way. It is just that I perceived a call for an ANZAC campaign as in the Pacific.
Had you worded it as a Greek/ANZAC campaign...
Nothing against Kiwis either :laugh:

[Achilles]

I have no objection to the Greeks! Sorry if it sounded that way. It is just that I perceived a call for an ANZAC campaign as in the Pacific.
Had you worded it as a Greek/ANZAC campaign...
Nothing against Kiwis either :laugh:

No problem, junk2drive... :smoke:

[Achilles]

I have no objection to the Greeks! Sorry if it sounded that way. It is just that I perceived a call for an ANZAC campaign as in the Pacific.
Had you worded it as a Greek/ANZAC campaign...
Nothing against Kiwis either :laugh:

I wish to give you an example of what actually happened in some battles of that region, just look this organisation chart of the battle of Crete, and notice all the Greek units under ANZAC command.

10 New Zealand Infantry Brigade : area west and south west of Canea area

Composite Battalion, New Zealand Artillery and Army 4th NZ Field Regt and part of 5th NZ Field Regt,

Service Corps : coast, W of Canea Service Corps (as infantry)

6th Greek Regiment (battalion) : SW of Canea attached

8th Greek Regiment (battalion) : SW of Canea attached



19 Australian Infantry Brigade

2/8th Australian Battalion : Georgeopolis area

2/7th Australian Battalion : Georgeopolis area

2/11th Australian Battalion : Retimo area

2/1st Australian Battalion : Retimo area

4th Greek Regiment (battalion) : Retimo area attached

5th Greek Regiment (battalion) : Retimo area attached

Greek Gendarmerie : Retimo-Georgeoupolis area attached



cheers,
Pyros

[Cameronius]

Pyros, While some are disappointed that there is no Pacific Theatre Chapter planned, I am quite happy. I find the Pacific Theatre boring for the most part.:bored: :laugh:

[Double Deuce]

You know, IF there are enough people here willing to put in some work for either or both areas why not plan for the campaign have the two paths. Could even include a PTO what if in 1946 at the end. :smoke:

IMHO it would only make it more open to being received by a larger crowd. It would double some workloads though. :crosseye:

[Achilles]

You know, IF there are enough people here willing to put in some work for either or both areas why not plan for the campaign have the two paths. Could even include a PTO what if in 1946 at the end. :smoke:

IMHO it would only make it more open to being received by a larger crowd. It would double some workloads though. :crosseye:


No problem with that, but I think that a PTO campaign deserves to be a stand alone campaign.
What is the point to have a campaign separation at the early stage of the campaign?
Anyway, the ToO: Pacific thread is already created and anyone who wishes to do a pacific research, he is free to do so.
Although, I will personally give all my attention (at this stage) to the designing of the ToO:Greece and ToO:Crete. Then I could assist in a possible Pacific path.

cheers,
Pyros

[Sgt Walrus]

HI Pyros
I am here too...just watching and reading.

Mustang...The Aussi and Kiwi forces that make up ANZAC had quite different wars. The majority of NZ battles were in Greece, Crete, Nth Africa and Italy. There was only a small Div in the Pacific. NZ lost many troops in the the two evacuations then many more in Nth Africa. Cassino was also a heavy loss.
You must concider that we were a very small country and look at the attrition rate compared to the size of our population at the time.
The Aussis were much better off in the end even though they had more casualties over the war.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I am looing forward to the campaign. It is a good idea you have Pyros.
Cheers to all
Walrus

[hoplitis]

...
You must concider that we were a very small country...
....

Why, did it grow since ? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Welcome onboard! :thumup:

[Achilles]

HI Pyros
I am here too...just watching and reading.

Mustang...The Aussi and Kiwi forces that make up ANZAC had quite different wars. The majority of NZ battles were in Greece, Crete, Nth Africa and Italy. There was only a small Div in the Pacific. NZ lost many troops in the the two evacuations then many more in Nth Africa. Cassino was also a heavy loss.
You must concider that we were a very small country and look at the attrition rate compared to the size of our population at the time.
The Aussis were much better off in the end even though they had more casualties over the war.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I am looing forward to the campaign. It is a good idea you have Pyros.
Cheers to all
Walrus

Welcome Walrus,

What is a Kiwi doing in the land of Aussies?:laugh:

cheers,
Pyros

[Double Deuce]

The HQ will be Anzac, and the player will start to buy Anzac units from linked scenario No3 to the end of the campaign.
The starting Greek core forces will be no more than 2 or 3 platoons and the Greek-Italian Albanian conflict 2-3 scenarios.
The idea of making this ANZAC campaign was an extension of an existing project the Greek-Italian/Axis campaign, and this idea came to me because in all the battles, both ANZAC forces and Greek forces were brothers in arms (in fact the Greek forces were under the ANZAC command, or even included in custom ANZAC formations up to the battle of Crete).If this is the case then the player will start with a pure Greek force correct or were ANZAC forces there in Greece during the Italian invasion from Albania? I'm not really up to speed on this part of the war in Europe. :(

[Achilles]

If this is the case then the player will start with a pure Greek force correct or were ANZAC forces there in Greece during the Italian invasion from Albania? I'm not really up to speed on this part of the war in Europe. :(

Mike,

This will be the first innovation of this campaign (thanks to junk2drive :) )

The player at link-scenario 0 will have the option:

1. to start the campaign earlier with:
i) ANZAC HQ
ii) Fix Greek core force of 2 platoons with a cost of Y
iii) Play 3-4 Greco-Italian campaign scenarios (with a mix of ANZAC HQ and Greek core force)
iV) then proceed with ToO:Greece and starting to buy his Anzac core forces with a number X of points

or

2. to skip the Greco-Italy conflict and start the campaign with:
i) ANZAC HQ
ii) He won't play the 3-4 Greco-Italian campaign scenarios, instead
iii) he will proceed directly to ToO:Greece and there
iv) he will buy his Anzac core forces with a number X of points plus 0.8 Y.
v) with the 0.8 Y he may be able to change the Greek core force into pure ANZAC units, thuss he will have a 100% ANZAC force.

resulting in a ANZAC HQ and ANZAC core force.

Problem fixed! (Already TESTED and works) :smoke:

[hoplitis]

:hmmm: :nuts: :thumup: :hail:

Interesting solution to a problem I don't really understand. Guys it was a WORLD war. The so called "minors" (Axis or Allies) fought and bled too. But what the heck! Let's go on with it!

[Kiwi]

Welcome Walrus,

What is a Kiwi doing in the land of Aussies?:laugh:

cheers,
Pyros
Raising the average IQ of Australia??

[Achilles]

Raising the average IQ of Australia??

:laugh: :laugh:

[Sgt Walrus]

Why, did it grow since ? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Welcome onboard! :thumup:

Cheers mate...and for the record we are still pretty damn small. 1/5 of the Kiwis live outside the country, like me!!

The NZ 2nd Div (the one that was in the ETO) was one of the biggest Divs on the Aliied roster...at least in the Nth Africa campaign.
I don't think there were many chaps left at home!!

Cheers
Walrus

[Sgt Walrus]

Raising the average IQ of Australia??

Ka Pai Bro....he he he he he he:D

[Double Deuce]

:hmmm: :nuts: :thumup: :hail:

Interesting solution to a problem I don't really understand. Guys it was a WORLD war. The so called "minors" (Axis or Allies) fought and bled too. But what the heck! Let's go on with it!Not necessarily a problem but this is supposed to be an ANZAC campaign (with Greek units attached at some point). If we start with the Greek-Italian fighting in Albania there has to be a way to later convert the "core" Greek force to a more ANZAC "core" force and leadership from the pure Greek force fighting Italy.

It was more a technical question concerning how to accomodate force structure within the design limitations of the game's campaign code rather than questioning any nations committment and sacrifice.:)

[hoplitis]

No problem. And if you think about it... NZ was a "minor" of the Commonwealth.;)

[Achilles]

No problem. And if you think about it... NZ was a "minor" of the Commonwealth.;)

Hoplitis,

Do you wish to see what is the definition of "minor force of the Commonwealth" ? :laugh:

I present you.... the Assyrian Levies RAF !!!:clap: :clap:

Read here more about them :

http://www.assyrianlevies.com/about.html4.html

cheers,
Pyros

[hoplitis]

I should've written "...what was later the Commonwealth" It was still an "Empire" right?

Pyrro I'll come back on the "Assyrian and Kurdish !!!!!!!!!!" thing later!:nuts:

on a private post of course

[Double Deuce]

It's been kinda quiet in here lately, is design still progressing?

Is everyone who is working on projects stuck at the point that they are waiting for the release of SPWW2 to be able to move forward?

[Cameronius]

DD,
With Pyros engaged in helping with the final stages of winSPWW2 it is rather quiet here. I have been slowly,plugging away on my own maps for Crete. I've got plenty left to do before the expected release, RL has been impeding me progress.:salute: Soldiering on.

[Achilles]

Gentlemen,

My duties at the WinSPWW2 BETA are almost completed so we may resume the designing of the ANZAC project.

Hopefully Ulf and Jason will also resume activity.

Anyway, I heard that Vagelis (Hoplitis) has finished the analysis of the Rimini chapter and I think he will post it in the next few days.

Please, keep the following information confidential as it contains elements related to WinSPWW2. :hush:

I am quite happy with the "new" potentials of the WinSPWW2 engine and I think that we will make good progress once the game is released.

I have also finished the designing of a huge scenario (medium map 80x70), the Kalpaki battle which may be included in the first clone of the campaign (pre-Anzac battles).

Once the game is released, I advise you to play this scenario a little and I strongly advise you to analyze it in the scenario editor.

During the next few weeks, I will try to explain you the basics of the waypoint mechanism (has been upgraded) in order to use waypoints in your scenarios.
By the use of the waypoints you will enjoy better control over the AI movement and you may create very interesting tactical situations.

We should also try to determine the types and organization of the ANZAC and German TO&Es (in terms of SP oob).

cheers,
Pyros