New Campaign Game Screenshots

[Bullethead]

Thanks for posting up the campaign shots. They look quite interesting and hopefully will provide fodder for some discussion other than copy protection :p

I have a few questions already:

1. What do all the light gray ship silouhettes on the map around Japan and Korea represent? My guess is that they show the outlines of areas in which commerce raiders might find targets, and maybe how good a chance they have of doing so. But if that's the case, how do you tell which side's merchants are there? The sils all look the same in the screens. If my guess is right, maybe you should color them pink and light blue.

2. This concerns pathfinding. It looks to me like there's a square grid under the campaign map, and that when you specify a new waypoint that doesn't line up perfectly orthogonally or diagonally with the previous waypoint, the AI computes a path between the points such that it cuts over by the shortest route to the closest direct line to the new waypoint, then goes that way. If that's the case, is there a way to override that short of adding intermediate waypoints? IOW, if there's no land to worry about, there are many valid paths between any 2 given squares, but I might want the ships to go on a particular path between them instead of what the AI gives me. Can I cycle through path options or would I possibly have to specify every single square I want as a wapoint?

3. It looked like in one of the screens that some ships had been on 48-hour notice to raise steam. Is that a standard value or can we set the ships at different reaction speed levels, such as 12 hours, 2 hours, etc? If so, do quicker reaction times burn more fuel in harbor, which was the case in real life I think?

4. Do ships ever suffer any wear and tear damage from just being at sea, such as going on a patrol?

5. Can you swap ships between task forces while at sea, or do all such changes have to be made in port?

Thanks.

[Lempereur1]

I'm impressed!

I will answer most of questions in a later post. I just wanted to let you know how impressed we are with your observations!

[Bullethead]

I'm impressed!

Thank you, sir. I do my best :).

Actually, I've been testing games, mostly naval sims in fact, for over 20 years. I go back to the original version of Harpoon in the 80s. So I've had to develop a 6th sense of what the designers are hoping to achieve instead of what they tell me straight up. Plus, I've seen just about everything at one time or another.

[aklua24h]

hello

Will we be able to call in reinfocements? can we captuer enemy ship such as warships and use them aginst the enemy?



Thanks

Aklua24h

[cwmark]

So if I understand this correctly, maintaining a certain steam level onboard ship affects limited coal supplies and also operational interception range as well?

Or is this value used only for tactical battles - say response time on the Port Arthur torpedo attack?

[Bullethead]

So if I understand this correctly, maintaining a certain steam level onboard ship affects limited coal supplies and also operational interception range as well?

That is correct. Almost all ships of the RJW era from TB size on up had multiple boilers, and each boiler could run at any level up to its maximum temperature and pressure limits. When at these limits, the boiler produced its max amount of steam, and all boilers doing so gave the necessary steam to achieve full speed. But just like in a teapot, heat had to be applied for some time before the steam reached that point. Thus, if 1 or more boilers were shut down or just simmering, it took a while after all the fires were cranked up before the whole system reached its maximum capacity. This delay could be calculated using the standard thermodynamic equations based on the known parameters of the ship's plant and its current state. Therefore, admirals could order ships to be on different levels of alert, specified in hours, and captains would tweak their boilers so that, when given the signal to raise full steam, they could reach that point in the time specified.

As noted above, ships only required all their boilers going full blast to achieve full speed. The rest of the time, including in port, they had 1 or more boilers shut down or just simmering, to save fuel, to rest stokers, and to avoid unnecessary wear and tear on the machinery. In port, they'd usually have just enough boilers going at just enough temperature to power things like pumps, electrical generators, and such. At sea while just cruising, they'd have most, but usually still not all, boilers going, at whatever rate was required for the speed needed at the time. Thus, surprised ships might be caught with low steam and be unable to reach full speed for some time after the battle started. Ships surprise in port might not even be able move at all for some time.

Obviously, the more boilers working, and the hotter the fires maintained in them, the more coal the ships burned per hour. Maintaining steam for full speed while at anchor burned almost as much coal as actually running at full speed at sea, and wore the stokers and machinery out just as quickly. Thus, if a ship "idled" at full steam for any length of time, its radius of action would shrink drastically, and the endurance of the black gang would already be taxed before sailing. Therefore, the alert levels were actually a physical necessity imposed by the hardware and the Laws of Thermodynamics, not just a proceedural thing invented by admirals as a management tool.

Or is this value used only for tactical battles - say response time on the Port Arthur torpedo attack?

I don't know how they plan on implementing this in the game, although on the campaign map it looks like you can order ships to be ready to go by a certain point in time in the future.

What I'm most curious about is how steam levels will affect ship performance in tactical battles. Specifically, the time required to reach full power steam after contact is made.

Usually what an admiral would when going out expecting to meet the enemy was to set his alert level in 2 stages. Initially, there'd be the requirment for the ships to be able to achieve 2/3 power in a given amount of time, and then once at sea the ability to reach full power in another amount of time. Such as, "12-hour notice for 2/3 steam, and then 1/2 hour notice for full steam". Having received this order, the ships would raise their fires from whatever insiginificant in-port level they had to the point where they could achieve the 1st part of the order. At some point thereafter, the admiral would give the order to raise 2/3 steam when it was 12 hours before his intended sailing time. Ships would then stoke up their fires to be able to sail on time.

The ships would then leave harbor, form up, and cruise towards the enemy at the 2/3 steam level. Meanwhile, they'd have the rest of their fires built up large, but then banked, just maintaining a fairly high temperature in the system. Then, when they made contact, they'd scrape off the banking and stoke these last fires up to full, to heat the water the rest of the way to the full power rating in about 1/2 hour. When cruising coal-burners went to full power like this, it was quite visible in the form of a big cloud of soot going up the stacks as the banking was scraped away. But it still took these increased fires some time to raise the system to full steam, such as the 1/2 hour specified in the initial order. This was one reason why scouting and signalling were so important. Admirals wanted enough warning of the enemy's proximity to be at full power when battle was joined.

So I'm wondering... will the game's tactical side include this effect? Will ships require some significant time after contact (whether made by themselves or by report) before they can reach full speed? This is over and above their acceleration capacities---if the steam wasn't there, they couldn't achieve full speed regardless of their acceleration.

[Rhetor]

Well, one has to remember also, that every furnace had to be put out once in a while, because the grates would get fouled very quickly, and had to be cleaned. Also, reciprocating (if I spelled it correctly :-D ) steam engines were prone to damages when operating at full capacity. All in all, the ships could not maintain their top speed for very long.
I wonder whether this would be put into the game.

[Bullethead]

Well, one has to remember also, that every furnace had to be put out once in a while, because the grates would get fouled very quickly, and had to be cleaned. Also, reciprocating (if I spelled it correctly :-D ) steam engines were prone to damages when operating at full capacity. All in all, the ships could not maintain their top speed for very long.
I wonder whether this would be put into the game.

Good question. I'd like to see mechanical breakdowns in the game myself. That was something that was always fun in Raider Operations, where long, high-speed chases not uncommonly resulted in a ship having something go wrong just when it was about to escape or close in for the kill :)

To see some of the "fun" you could have with that old reciprocating machinery, you should watch "The Sand Pebbles". This is an old Steve McQueen movie where he's a motor mach on an old gunboat on the China Station in the 30s. IIRC, the engine on that boat killed 2 or 3 people during the course of the movie, when it wasn't totally broken down :D

[Lohengrin]

To see some of the "fun" you could have with that old reciprocating machinery, you should watch "The Sand Pebbles". This is an old Steve McQueen movie where he's a motor mach on an old gunboat on the China Station in the 30s.

Yeah, one of my favorite "war movies" ever, Bullethead. That engine room dynamic definitely conjures up some images in my head about ships in the RJW. Would love to see the detail you talk about re: steam portrayed in the game's campaign system, too. It won't be disaster if not, but just a kind of sliding speed limit imposed before ships are allowed to max speed would add some authenticity.

Nice comments! :smoke:

[Bullethead]

Yeah, one of my favorite "war movies" ever, Bullethead. That engine room dynamic definitely conjures up some images in my head about ships in the RJW.

It makes me think of the horrible fate of the black gangs in capsizing ships. The ship rolls over and the snipes tumble into all the big, heavy, whirling parts of the machinery, and become snipeburger :eek:

just a kind of sliding speed limit imposed before ships are allowed to max speed would add some authenticity.

Oh man, that would be most cool. Especially if they took the time to figure out (or dig up) the heating rates of all the different ships with all their different types of boilers, and had each ship affected individually. It would really show folks the improvement in boiler design that was going on at the time, along with all improvements in guns and armor. Cylindrical vs. large tube vs. small tube, etc. Thus, while the modern flagship might be able to kick it up quickly, it would have to wait on the older ships, and the speed increases ordered would have to be very gradual, like 1 knot every 15 minutes or so. Otherwise the old ships would get left behind.

[Bullethead]

I will answer most of questions in a later post.

(BH stops twiddling his thumbs long enough to type this) I'm kinda wondering when you might get around to this :whist:

[pad152]

I would really like to here more about the campaign part of the game, is there a land war component?

[aklua24h]

hello all

My Question is can we update guns IE: larger guns and or on torpedo boats be able to lay mines?





Thanks
Aklua

[Don Maddox]

Norm posted an update on the Distant Guns site.

[pad152]

Don

Distant Guns Web site, I'm not seeing the update? The web site still shows last update as UPDATE: 02.06.2006

[Bullethead]

Don

Distant Guns Web site, I'm not seeing the update? The web site still shows last update as UPDATE: 02.06.2006

You really need to force a refresh in your browser, then. You're also missing the 4 March update that started this thread :). Be sure to go to the new URL as noted in the ANNOUNCEMENT thread at the top of the forum here. That way, you'll be sure to get the latest version of the site.

[Bullethead]

Norm posted an update on the Distant Guns site.

Any way you can get anybody to answer some of my questions at the start of this thread, now that they've got the campaign largely done?

[Neutrino 123]

Don

Distant Guns Web site, I'm not seeing the update? The web site still shows last update as UPDATE: 02.06.2006

He was refering to the SZO website at http://distantguns.xtreme-gamer.com

[pad152]

I've been checking www.stormeaglestudios.com the official web site for updates! :crosseye:

Geez, one might expect to look for updates on home site of the product, which shows no new content in over 2 months!

[Kadeen]

Thank you Neutrino, I too could not find the update.