View Full Version : Just a couple of questions...
It looks like you just had a huge discussion about activation and license keys, and yet, it looks like a couple of very important points are still unclear:
1 - After the license key is written to some removable media, will future installs invalidate or delete it? Will I have to be extra-careful to not to forget to run the export utility before every uninstall?
2 - What happens if the computer with the activated copy suffers some kind of accident/crash?
Could the fans and the developers please provide some information on these points? Thanks in advance...
This comes from another thread:
"Registering the game requires a one-time connection to the internet. Since we plan to sell over the internet, there has to be some kind of internet authorization scheme. We don't see any way around that. After that, if you don't mind passing up on automatic updates you never need an internet connection again.
Speculation that the game will become unusable if we ever go out of business is incorrect. The game includes a utility that allows you to move it from one computer to another with _no_ on-line interaction. The current implementation does require that both machines have some form of removable media (floppy, cdrw, whatever), but we may at some point set it up so that even that is not required as long as the two machines can "talk" to each other in some way.
In fact, you could register the game on a third party computer then move it to yours via the utility. Everything would work just fine on your stealth machine, we would have no record of it, and our guys in the black helicopter would never be able to find you."
Ivan Rapkinov
26 Feb 06, 13:40
Why am I catching a decided whiff of "locked thread" in the wind?
contrary to yourself, the first poster has so far been civil, and his questions, while probably likely to start something, were asked in good faith.
there's no problems in asking - it's being belligerent when the answer is not to your liking that is looked down upon.
What "answer" are you referring to? He's not going to get an "answer," any more than I got an "answer" when I posted The Question That Will Not Go Away.
John R.
Chetnikk, you are walking a thin line. Looking at the 19 posts you have made, I see not one of them has contributed anything positive to the forums. This gives the impression that your only purpose here, is to troll. If that is the case, you won't be around much longer.
Ben
Chetnikk, you are walking a thin line. Looking at the 19 posts you have made, I see not one of them has contributed anything positive to the forums. This gives the impression that your only purpose here, is to troll. If that is the case, you won't be around much longer.
Something positive, perhaps, like:
"Golly, Mr. K., I just /love/ your new game! I'm so very /excited/ at the prospect of briefly renting and activating your fabulous new software that I'm in danger of wetting myself!!!!! I simply cannot attach enough exclamation points to adequately express my profound delight at sunning in the warmth of your brilliance!!!!!!"
Would that be "positive" enough to buy me an answer to the question I've asked, twice now, about whether a user would be able to reinstall the product after a system crash which occurs prior to a license transfer?
John R.
Why am I catching a decided whiff of "locked thread" in the wind?
there's no problems in asking - it's being belligerent when the answer is not to your liking that is looked down upon.
What "answer" are you referring to? He's not going to get an "answer," any more than I got an "answer" when I posted The Question That Will Not Go Away.
John R.
This comes from another thread:
"Registering the game requires a one-time connection to the internet. Since we plan to sell over the internet, there has to be some kind of internet authorization scheme. We don't see any way around that. After that, if you don't mind passing up on automatic updates you never need an internet connection again.
Speculation that the game will become unusable if we ever go out of business is incorrect. The game includes a utility that allows you to move it from one computer to another with _no_ on-line interaction. The current implementation does require that both machines have some form of removable media (floppy, cdrw, whatever), but we may at some point set it up so that even that is not required as long as the two machines can "talk" to each other in some way.
In fact, you could register the game on a third party computer then move it to yours via the utility. Everything would work just fine on your stealth machine, we would have no record of it, and our guys in the black helicopter would never be able to find you."
Thanks for the effort but that doesn't answer my questions, it still doesn't tell us what happens to the registration info on the removable media after the second machine is activated.
The part about activating networked machines sounds interesting but it looks like I would have to keep the game installed in a machine at all times?
One more thing, "Since we plan to sell over the internet, there has to be some kind of internet authorization scheme. We don't see any way around that." sounds odd, I may be wrong but I think that Matrix's games and "Birth of America" (at least) don't validate their licenses/serials via the Internet?
Something positive, perhaps, like:
"Golly, Mr. K., I just /love/ your new game! I'm so very /excited/ at the prospect of briefly renting and activating your fabulous new software that I'm in danger of wetting myself!!!!! I simply cannot attach enough exclamation points to adequately express my profound delight at sunning in the warmth of your brilliance!!!!!!"
Would that be "positive" enough to buy me an answer to the question I've asked, twice now, about whether a user would be able to reinstall the product after a system crash which occurs prior to a license transfer?
John R.
I don't think anyone here has any obligation to answer your questions. Especially when they are asked in such a fashion.
Amazing....
Looks like the "Ignore Questions" button is working pretty well for you guys, as well.
And to pvincente, I can only say, "I told you so." They're not going answer this question, because the answer would reveal the user-hostile nature of the copy protection scheme they're inflicting on you.
The best you can get is a tired regurgiation of the same old doubletalk, interspersed among the screeches of, 'Troll! TROLL!!" since you're daring to ask The Question That May Not Be Asked.
John R.
Granted but we need an anit-piracy thread instead of apparently focusing on SES. You may not know but I'm in the forefront of the anti-Starforce movement. I think planting an app on your system is much different from the system SES is doing. Let's assume the worst: your HD is gone. If you provide SES with a receipt, won't they make you whole?
Granted but we need an anit-piracy thread instead of apparently focusing on SES. You may not know but I'm in the forefront of the anti-Starforce movement. I think planting an app on your system is much different from the system SES is doing. Let's assume the worst: your HD is gone. If you provide SES with a receipt, won't they make you whole?
Unless they are out of business...
That's my only real concern.
I'm not thrilled with agressive copy protections and I usually avoid games that have them. However, if a topic/game looks good, then I will still buy it.
Neutrino 123
26 Feb 06, 19:25
Thanks for the effort but that doesn't answer my questions, it still doesn't tell us what happens to the registration info on the removable media after the second machine is activated.
The part about activating networked machines sounds interesting but it looks like I would have to keep the game installed in a machine at all times?
From what I gather, the registration information is seperate from any copy of the game, so you can have it away from any game (say, on a USB hard disc), or used to activate a copy of the game at any time.
Valid concern; depends on how they go out of business...which I hope they don't do.
Let me get this straight. Your worse scenario is an utter system crash. You do a backup but, as a re-install, the program wants a code or a site that's not there.
Am I stating the case correctly?
Valid concern; depends on how they go out of business...which I hope they don't do.
Let me get this straight. Your worse scenario is an utter system crash. You do a backup but, as a re-install, the program wants a code or a site that's not there.
Am I stating the case correctly?
Correct.
For instance, if I needed a code for a talonsoft game after an HD crash, well I'd be out of luck.
No, but a disk check is not the only non-invavasive copy protection. Let SES talk about their system; don't brong HPS orthers into this thread; it's called "Distant Guns."
No, but a disk check is not the only non-invavasive copy protection. Let SES talk about their system; don't brong HPS orthers into this thread; it's called "Distant Guns."
:confused:
Was this in response to what I wrote?
Lohengrin
26 Feb 06, 21:55
It's really a simple issue, and a valid one to us consumers: If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction), will we be able to reinstall it again without going through a reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?
It's an honest question and issue and deserves an answer. The anger I'm detecting among some posters seems to be because no one ever answers this simple, fundamental question. And confusing the issue by responding with nonresponsive verbiage only makes the situation worse. Answer it fully and then people will know what they need to know about their buying decision. It's not that hard to answer for the developers. :halo:
Neutrino 123
26 Feb 06, 22:34
It's really a simple issue, and a valid one to us consumers: If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction), will we be able to reinstall it again without going through a reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?
It's an honest question and issue and deserves an answer. The anger I'm detecting among some posters seems to be because no one ever answers this simple, fundamental question. And confusing the issue by responding with nonresponsive verbiage only makes the situation worse. Answer it fully and then people will know what they need to know about their buying decision. It's not that hard to answer for the developers. :halo:
Depends on if the license portion is still in your possession. If you uninstall, but keep the license, you should not have to reactivate it, only remember the password that you entered. If you lose everything, then you will need to show your receipt or somesuch (and if the company is out of business, it might be a problem unless they deal with the matter before they leave business - however, I think it is unlikely they will go out of business since their costs will be quite small after doing the main work for the games due to their internet-based business method).
No, but a disk check is not the only non-invavasive copy protection. Let SES talk about their system; don't brong HPS orthers into this thread; it's called "Distant Guns."
Yes. Capital idea. Let SES talk about their copy protection scheme. By all means.
The trouble is, they don't exactly seem like they're in a hurry to talk about it, now do they? Their entire response, so far, has consisted entirely of mumbling some doubletalk /that didn't answer the questions/, and swiftly killfiling anyone daring to ask for clarification.
John R.
Lohengrin
27 Feb 06, 10:42
Depends on if the license portion is still in your possession. If you uninstall, but keep the license, you should not have to reactivate it, only remember the password that you entered.
Neutrino, I appreciate your viewpoint, but are you associated with SES or do you have confirmation of this information? This is how I would hope the issue would work but so far no SES person has responded to this question. I would like to hear Norm or Jim answer this as opposed to more speculation by the community. Speculation is already out of hand.
Please SES, answer this question: If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction) on all our PC's, will we be able to reinstall it again without going through an online reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?
Please SES, answer this question: If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction) on all our PC's, will we be able to reinstall it again without going through an online reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?
Well. Whatta surprise. No response.
The stoney silence from the developers and their grim unwillingness to discuss their hostile and intrusive copy-protection plan is the best evidence imaginable that it's much, much worse than anyone suspects.
Of course you'll have to call and plead for a new "activation code" if something happens to your installation.
/Why else use activation?/
The only conceivable way their activation scheme can offer them any benefits whatsoever over a simple serial number is if they can control activations remotely. And if you can uninstall/reinstall on your own, they can't control the process at all.
What they're hoping for now - like filmmakers who've produced a bomb - is that everyone will have to pay the price of admission to learn how badly they've been screwed.
An honest response in a forum would trash that strategy. So you're just not going to get an answer to this question. Nobody is.
What people should do is hold off on purchasing this title until the early-adopters can tell us the truth about what SES has built, and whether it can /ever/ be installed again.
John R.
First of all, I want to apologize for something I posted on this forum a few days ago. I was very critical of a post by Mr. Chetnikk and said some things that I now deeply regret. By the way Mr. Chetnikk, your scathing rejoinder really put me in my place! Ouch! Mr Chetnikk raised some very legitimate concerns in the activation topic (which sadly, is now closed to further comment), and I took the rather low brow approach of "shooting the messenger", rather than actually evaluating what he was trying to say. Fortunately Mr. Chetnikk has cleverly brought up his concerns in this topic, so the issue will remain front and center on the Distant Guns radar. I think you are right Mr. Chetnikk, I think you have them "running scared", because they know they can't release this game with this invasive protection scheme without triggering a worldwide rebellion that will destroy any chance of commercial success!!
What is even more impressive is that Mr. Chetnikk has accomplished this, may I say heroic feat, with what appears to be the educational background of a slug. How an apparently decerebrate troglodyte who spends most of his day trying to determine if his diaper needs changing was able to "stick it to the man" should be an inspiration to us all!
Again, Mr. Chetnikk, my most sincere apologies. Keep fighting the good fight, and remember: Even though crayons are not as pointy as pencils you should still be careful when jamming them up your nose.
Lohengrin
28 Feb 06, 11:48
:surprise: Wow! Ban?
Chettnik wrote:
The stoney silence from the developers and their grim unwillingness to discuss their hostile and intrusive copy-protection plan is the best evidence imaginable that it's much, much worse than anyone suspects.
Couldn't it be that the guys are actually trying to finish the game?
Chettnik wrote:
What they're hoping for now - like filmmakers who've produced a bomb - is that everyone will have to pay the price of admission to learn how badly they've been screwed.
What people should do is hold off on purchasing this title until the early-adopters can tell us the truth about what SES has built
Or perhaps we could all just play the free 30 day demo that the company is releasing and make up our own minds!
Or perhaps we could all just play the free 30 day demo that the company is releasing and make up our own minds!
I wonder if the demo will need an internet activation.
Double Deuce
28 Feb 06, 12:42
Well. Whatta surprise. No response. Thats probably because half the people posting in here are on the other halfs ignore list and vice versa. :D
What people should do is hold off on purchasing this title until the early-adopters can tell us the truth about what SES has built, and whether it can /ever/ be installed again.Fair enough. I'm sure many people will take that route especially if they have reservations.
In any case I can't fault developers for trying to protect their property the best way they think they can whether I agree with their methods or not. If I have concerns I won't purchase it. I would hope that they would elaborate more on the protection system before it goes on sale BUT thats not gonna happen if they have the perception people are lying in wait to ambush and attack them.
What is even more impressive is that Mr. Chetnikk has accomplished this, may I say heroic feat, with what appears to be the educational background of a slug. How an apparently decerebrate troglodyte who spends most of his day trying to determine if his diaper needs changing was able to "stick it to the man" should be an inspiration to us all!
Again, Mr. Chetnikk, my most sincere apologies. Keep fighting the good fight, and remember: Even though crayons are not as pointy as pencils you should still be careful when jamming them up your nose.
{sigh}
This is about the level of "debate" I've come to expect from the "Distant Guns" developers and their fanboys in this forum; it ranges from the weird and creepy (developer Rose Googling Eddy Sterckx and getting it wrong) to juvenile, sneering sarcasm (above).
Interesting, though, that it's those of us who are simply /asking questions/ of the developers who are getting hit with such demented vitriole. What can it be about our questions about the copy-protection scheme in "Distant Guns" that's making them soooooooo crazy?
"You know you're over the target when you start taking flak."
- Old Saying
John R.
I would hope that they would elaborate more on the protection system before it goes on sale BUT thats not gonna happen if they have the perception people are lying in wait to ambush and attack them.
Let me see if I've got this straight, though. You're more or less arguing that the only way to get our tough, uncomfortable, uncompromising questions answered by the developers is ... not to ask them, lest we be seen as "attacking?"
I will say, in all fairness, that not asking any questions would be as effective with these particular developers as asking the questions is, since they appear to have no intentions whatsoever of responding to any questions or criticisms /at all/.
All the more reason to hold-fire on purchasing this title until someone acquires it and we can get the straight dope on how the copy protection really works.
John R.
Jim Burns
28 Feb 06, 13:27
{sigh}
This is about the level of "debate" I've come to expect from the "Distant Guns" developers and their fanboys in this forum;
John R.
It looks to me to be a rather blatant attempt to get yet another thread closed down that dares to ask a simple question. I wonder who this new moniker (Kadeen) truly belongs to?
Jim
Lempereur1
28 Feb 06, 14:01
It is kind of funny that someone from Belgium posts in perfect English? Even the British post slightly different than Americans....
Someone is scared to death of our new distribution method. Now I wonder, who would be afraid of a distribution method that allows the bulk of the money to remai with the DEVELOPER?
WHo would be afraid of a distribution model where DEVELOPERS do not need to have a tradtional PUBLISHER to distribute thier games?
The answer seems simple to me...
:)
I'm calling you on that, Jim. Many European posters use better English than we do.
It is kind of funny that someone from Belgium posts in perfect English? Even the British post slightly different than Americans....
Someone is scared to death of our new distribution method. Now I wonder, who would be afraid of a distribution method that allows the bulk of the money to remai with the DEVELOPER?
WHo would be afraid of a distribution model where DEVELOPERS do not need to have a tradtional PUBLISHER to distribute thier games?
The answer seems simple to me...
:)
Two things are instantly apparent in this "response:"
(1) It's a strawman. No one has argued that we dislike a "distribution method" that allows money to remain with the developers. Indeed, our argument has been that a user-hostile, invasive copy-protection scheme will cause /less/ money to flow into developer's coffers, due to our refusing to buy it. Additionally, there are any number of developers/publishers (HPS, Shrapnel, Matrix, Battlefront) who do just fine selling online without resorting to Steam/activation or any other intrusive, unsecure copy protection methods.
(2) The developers still refuse to answer the question, which was best expressed by Lohengrin:
"If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction) on all our PC's, will we be able to reinstall it again without going through an online reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?"
I would add my own codicile to this: "What happens to a customer when SES goes out of business?"
My goodness, but someone sure appears to be "scared to death" of answering this question.
John R.
Ivan Rapkinov
28 Feb 06, 14:18
I'm calling you on that, Jim. Many European posters use better English than we do.
you mean that stream of indecipherable noise coming from the US is English???
talk about butchering the Mother Tongue :D
now, gday I'm off to the tav to nip-nip-wiggy-wiggy a bonza sheila...
Double Deuce
28 Feb 06, 14:38
Let me see if I've got this straight, though. You're more or less arguing that the only way to get our tough, uncomfortable, uncompromising questions answered by the developers is ... not to ask them, lest we be seen as "attacking?"No, I'm not arguing one way or the other thats why I used the word "perception". We are all making assumptions based on what we think we know the other side is up to. Maybe they think the protection system has been explained enough we should understand it. Obviously some of us may have more questions or need it explained in more detail before we make a purchase. I myself would like to know more but SES is not under any obligation to answer any questions to my satisfaction any more then you, I or anyone else is required to purchase their product.
Double Deuce
28 Feb 06, 14:41
I'm calling you on that, Jim. Many European posters use better English than we do.It probably helps that some are them are actually "English"! :D
Bloodstar
28 Feb 06, 15:24
It is kind of funny that someone from Belgium posts in perfect English? Even the British post slightly different than Americans....
Someone is scared to death of our new distribution method. Now I wonder, who would be afraid of a distribution method that allows the bulk of the money to remai with the DEVELOPER?
WHo would be afraid of a distribution model where DEVELOPERS do not need to have a tradtional PUBLISHER to distribute thier games?
The answer seems simple to me...
:)
Hmmm, can I guess? Matrix? :laugh:
Hmm, Matrix have bought rights for Talon Soft games from Take 2. They want to be Sultans of swing of wargame publishing, but I think that they lack some finesse and zeal that Talon Soft had.
And I hate monopoly so I will rather give you my money than Matrix. Yes, I will buy TOAW Matrix Edition but that's almost all I am interested in their offering.
Eddy is OK guy. I cannot say that he is on the pay list for Matrix - but he is promoting them big time, but he is promoting other publishers as well. He is also one of beta tester of Conquest of Aegan.
We must get some reality check. Some customers have really gotten agressive in their demands, rights and whatever. To hell with that kind of "democracy".
The game is in the end of production phase so those "customers" are really STUPID to think that SES will now change copy protection sheme and hurt their release date once more. Jim, let's release game, don't fall on their rumblings that it will hurt your sales.
Also I find it disturbing that some of those guys have become really nasty and poisonous. Every other argument that don't suit them - well they just simply ignore - have they been brought up by their daddy Stalin in mother Russia, that is certanly not USA tradition to threat other people and opinion with such disrespect.
Agenda? Or pure stupidity? Are they on a some sort of a crusade against SES or David Heath is paying them to ruin SES? :p
What is it here? Because I don't find it normal to raise dust of this size because of COPY PROTECTION ISSUE AND ACTIVATION SHEME.
HEY GUYS, GABE NEWELL IS CALLING YOU!!! YOU NEED TO ATTACK STEAM AS WELL! HEHE.
Ah, communistic model of bullying group of people not to buy some product... Really nasty. Ah, what a justice I see in this guys behavious, WHAT A JUSTICE! They are on a world crusade. Pathetic.
There are many bad things in this world but SES copy protection sheme is not one of them. Period. And I am dissapointed into menthal capacity of such wargamers and their intelligence... They will not get any smarter I guess.
But one thing is certain - in any case some agenda is here present because SOMEONE WILL BENEFIT of any possible disaster of SES. And that's why those wargaming monkeys are stupid because if they feel happy for making damage to SES then whole affair is really PATHETIC!
Ah, SES is not respecting you and they think that you are thief? You are really fool if you think that way. That is Gifty thinking and it's pure stupidity. Ah, Gifty is the guy who will decide what kind of protection will SES use...
and etc...
So I really didn't know that wargamers can be such champions in stupidity and attacking SES is just that. Champions of stupidity.
Mario
Ivan Bajlo
28 Feb 06, 15:27
It is kind of funny that someone from Belgium posts in perfect English? Even the British post slightly different than Americans....
So old chap your claiming you colonials are speaking English? Next you'll be yelling God save the Queen and singing Rule Britannia! :halo:
Someone is scared to death of our new distribution method. Now I wonder, who would be afraid of a distribution method that allows the bulk of the money to remai with the DEVELOPER?
WHo would be afraid of a distribution model where DEVELOPERS do not need to have a tradtional PUBLISHER to distribute thier games?
The answer seems simple to me...
:)
Since there is no middle man does this means that price of game will be significantly reduced? :halo:
Jim Burns
28 Feb 06, 15:39
Also I find it disturbing that some of those guys have become really nasty and poisonous.
I do not wish to be accused of being nasty or poisonous, so I'll let Bloodstars words speak for me.
To hell with that kind of "democracy".
those "customers" are really STUPID
that is certanly not USA tradition to threat other people and opinion with such disrespect.
Agenda? Or pure stupidity?
What is it here? Because I don't find it normal to raise dust of this size because of COPY PROTECTION ISSUE AND ACTIVATION SHEME.
They are on a world crusade. Pathetic.
They will not get any smarter I guess.
those wargaming monkeys are stupid
You are really fool if you think that way.
That is Gifty thinking and it's pure stupidity.
So I really didn't know that wargamers can be such champions in stupidity
Champions of stupidity.
Mario
Jim
Or perhaps we could all just play the free 30 day demo that the company is releasing and make up our own minds!
Excuse me, but how is a demo supposed to clear up our doubts about how the activation scheme works???
Hmm, Matrix have bought rights for Talon Soft games from Take 2. They want to be Sultans of swing of wargame publishing, but I think that they lack some finesse and zeal that Talon Soft had.
It is worth noticing how it was not Talonsoft who bought the rights to Matrix's games...
Bloodstar
28 Feb 06, 15:48
I do not wish to be accused of being nasty or poisonous, so I'll let Bloodstars words speak for me.
Jim
Buahaha. Well, I also read Usenet and have seen everything you wrote there. It's boring and pathetic already. But, alas you and others take only facts that suits you - all other opinion no matter how reasonable was is in vain. So, no point in any arguing with you. You are your Majesty right in start. Well, Mr. let me tell you, you are right only for your money and not for mine. Calling me or any other a fanboy is also stupid. You are not the one who will decide what I will do with my own money.
You have used so much time and energy in vain - what you have proven? Nothing mister. SES have decision on their own. You don't like it, then don't buy the game, go play Doom 3 for Christ sake. Your continuation of this don't prove anything and will get you anywhere.
But, it's also my fault for losing my time into proving something that your stubborn head cannot accept obviously. You have a choice Mr. but please leave then us to speak about the game - stop flooding this forum about UNIMPORTANT things of copy protection.
You would as well told Picasso that the colour he uses is not good. Hello Mr? Koger is Picasso so it's not your business to tell him what colour he will use. Copy protection is not so important. Only for poor souls like you.
Mario
Bloodstar
28 Feb 06, 15:52
It is worth noticing how it was not Talonsoft who bought the rights to Matrix's games...
My view on Matrix and SES.
Matrix is publishers, they are merchants not artist. SES are leaders and that's my point.
In fact publishing model that SES is now using -hmm is probably not viewed with much satisfaction by Matrix... or?
But, it's really pointless but much more is pointless attacks on SES. If Matrix is behind that then it's a real shame and pathetic... And I wouldn't be suprised that Matrix is puppet master ahah.
Mario
It is kind of funny that someone from Belgium posts in perfect English? Even the British post slightly different than Americans....
Someone is scared to death of our new distribution method. Now I wonder, who would be afraid of a distribution method that allows the bulk of the money to remai with the DEVELOPER?
WHo would be afraid of a distribution model where DEVELOPERS do not need to have a tradtional PUBLISHER to distribute thier games?
The answer seems simple to me...
:)
So this controversy is part of a conspiracy by EA/Atari/UbiSoft/etc. to destroy your revolutionary distribution method, you're joking rigth?
Anyway, since you are reading this you must know that there is a great deal of confusion and speculation about the activation scheme, so could you please consider posting a clear,detailed description of your system? That would clear up a lot of the FUD about your product.
Jim Burns
28 Feb 06, 16:04
It's boring and pathetic already. Mario
Mario,
I was in no way shape or form attacking you, merely pointing out the irony of your post. I’ve posted all of 2 or 3 posts total here, so flooding the forums is your game, not mine.
I’ve told you before I want to buy this game, but not if the copy protection is as invasive as I fear it is. That is the reason behind my (and most others probably) interest in the copy protection scheme. It’s really a basic and simple thing really, why this logic eludes you baffles me. Until the question is answered it will and shall remain our number one concern with the game, because it’s the only thing keeping us from buying the darn game.
You have a retailer’s agenda and are not a strict hobbyist, so it is probably inappropriate for you to even weigh in on topics concerning consumers. You should probably be posting your opinions on a closed forum at http://www.delphiforums.com/ for industry types. But as I’ve said before we do (most of us) respect your opinion. It’s you (proven by your own words) who fail to respect ours.
Jim
there is a great deal of confusion and speculation about the activation scheme, so could you please consider posting a clear,detailed description of your system? That would clear up a lot of the FUD about your product.
I'd rather like to see the game published. I don't care about the copy protection; I'll accept it whatever it is. Yet, when the game is there, one would finally see how the copy protection works, and all these debates will hopefully cease.
For some time now there hasn't been a single post about the game on this forum. It seems as if the type of copy protection has become the most discussed feature of any new game.
Funny. This issue simply does not exist on Polish forums. And there are many people there who wait to buy Distant Guns.
Bloodstar
28 Feb 06, 16:27
Mario,
I was in no way shape or form attacking you, merely pointing out the irony of your post. I’ve posted all of 2 or 3 posts total here, so flooding the forums is your game, not mine.
I’ve told you before I want to buy this game, but not if the copy protection is as invasive as I fear it is. That is the reason behind my (and most others probably) interest in the copy protection scheme. It’s really a basic and simple thing really, why this logic eludes you baffles me. Until the question is answered it will and shall remain our number one concern with the game, because it’s the only thing keeping us from buying the darn game.
You have a retailer’s agenda and are not a strict hobbyist, so it is probably inappropriate for you to even weigh in on topics concerning consumer. You should probably be posting your opinions on a closed forum at http://www.delphiforums.com/ for industry types. But as I’ve said before we do (most of us) respect your opinion. It’s you (proven by your own words) who fail to respect ours.
Jim
Jim,
But, that is not true. Yes, I have a web shop for selling games but that's in Croatia, it's not even worldwide.
I don't even sell wargames almost. That's sad because I am fan of wargames but unfortunately they don't sell good - but I will sell them just for a kick of mine.
I am here only as a fan of wargames and Norm Koger as well. I am not here defending retail games industry or something. I am here just gamer like you!
And it's not true that I don't respect you. But, I have wrote miles and miles of text that you, Gifty, Eddy and others seems to ignore. On Usenet and here.
I tell you that your Don Kihot and Sancho Pansa adventure is uselless.
You and others are fundamentally WRONG: and that is because your MAGIC ball that tells you how future will be is BROKEN :p
Your wishfull thinking is one thing and reality is another. And yes customer is the king but certanly it is not true that all customers are you ie. not satisfied.
And certanly only after release we will know what has been true and how many sales have been lost because of this - and importanly how many have been gained!
You didn't made contructive criticism to developers, you made agressive criticism. And you subtly turned some other people into "not buy" cathegory and I hope that you feel happy about this.
You ignore all my arguments and I said tons of it on Usenet. In fact all matter is fait accompli and that's why it is pointless. Telling a blablabla all the way and copy protection is presto in there and cannot be changed now is really hmmm strange...
Yes, you can vote with your dollar and nobody is deying you that. And we others can also vote with our dollar as well. But I will not bully any people to buy this game , I will let him choose by himself after I present him all the facts.
Put some weight on your reasoning, can you be at least fair to say that copy protection thing is same in pair like gameplay or quality of game?
That's for you maybe Mr.
And it's kind of pathetic that wargamers are so stubborn? We can also have our opinion and we can be free to say that we don't want to destroy Norm Koger just because of your habit to have Matrix sheme of protection in there. Then go ahead buy Matrix games. Am I restraining you?
Norm and Jim, even if you have 1000 sale, don't give in to those guys now, just for a principle. I would go broke but I would certanly not allow that anyone blackmails me and harras me.
If that is not a attack on wargaming hobby in general than I certanly want to see one. So excuse me - me here have different opinion than you Senor.
Can someone see lame situation here? And no win situation for wargames... Destructive minds at play I guess.
Mario
Jim Burns
28 Feb 06, 17:16
I am here only as a fan of wargames and Norm Koger as well. I am not here defending retail games industry or something. I am here just gamer like you!
If this is true, then let me ask you a question. Why do you “hate” Matrix Games? As a gamer I feel they’ve done just as much for wargaming as Talonsoft ever did. There has to be some reason to hate an entity like a company and I usually find it’s due to professional reasons.
And it's not true that I don't respect you. But, I have wrote miles and miles of text that you, Gifty, Eddy and others seems to ignore. On Usenet and here.
I can only read about how stupid I am so many times before I begin to suspect I’m being fed a line of bull. I’ve not held discourse with you before on any gaming topics I know of, so I’ve so far been giving you the benefit of the doubt.
It’s also very hard to respond to such over the top aggressive text. At some point the reader simply stops reading your post. Civil conversation always elicits a response, but if someone disagrees with you and you lash out in your replies, you shouldn’t be surprised when people stop taking you seriously.
I tell you that your Don Kihot and Sancho Pansa adventure is uselless.
What adventure is that? All I’m doing is asking a question. I’ve been told over and over by you and others to shut up and stop attacking. Sorry but my question is legitimate and I would respectfully like an answer. If you view the question itself as an attack then perhaps it’s because the answer is the real problem.
You and others are fundamentally WRONG: and that is because your MAGIC ball that tells you how future will be is BROKEN :p
Ok, you lost me here. What are you talking about? I’m asking a question, not trying to shape the future. Ok, ok I do want to own the game someday, so perhaps that is a future goal. But is asking a question an attack on someone?
Your wishfull thinking is one thing and reality is another. And yes customer is the king but certanly it is not true that all customers are you ie. not satisfied.
And certanly only after release we will know what has been true and how many sales have been lost because of this - and importanly how many have been gained!
You didn't made contructive criticism to developers, you made agressive criticism. And you subtly turned some other people into "not buy" cathegory and I hope that you feel happy about this.
I only got aggressive on USENET after I saw a very respected member of our community get maliciously and falsely attacked. Eddy works tirelessly and does a lot for nothing in return, he has been a very real resource to the PC wargaming community. He did not deserve to be attacked simply because like me he would like a simple answer to a simple question.
You ignore all my arguments and I said tons of it on Usenet. In fact all matter is fait accompli and that's why it is pointless. Telling a blablabla all the way and copy protection is presto in there and cannot be changed now is really hmmm strange...
No you’re wrong, I did not ignore your arguments, I disagreed wholeheartedly with them. At some point the discussion was over when it was apparent we disagreed, why am I obligated to either change my mind or debate with you endlessly?
In fact this isn’t a debate, copy protection is preventing me from buying a game I want. This makes it an important issue to me and not to you. So why do you feel it’s necessary for you to interject yourself into the middle of my dilemma. You can’t answer my question so piling on post after post telling me to shut up is rude in the extreme.
Funny thing is there would probably be half as many posts on the topic if you and others hadn’t felt it necessary to interject. No one likes being told to shut up so a response is almost a certainty ad infinitum.
Yes, you can vote with your dollar and nobody is deying you that. And we others can also vote with our dollar as well. But I will not bully any people to buy this game , I will let him choose by himself after I present him all the facts.
Put some weight on your reasoning, can you be at least fair to say that copy protection thing is same in pair like gameplay or quality of game?
That's for you maybe Mr.
I am not bullying anyone. I post my thoughts and they can choose to accept or ignore them. It’s called freedom. I am a member of the wargaming community online and I listen to others in the community and hope they listen to me in turn. It’s a hobby for me and I enjoy the discourse with others in my hobby. If what concerns me concerns them we talk about it, it’s simple.
And it's kind of pathetic that wargamers are so stubborn? We can also have our opinion and we can be free to say that we don't want to destroy Norm Koger just because of your habit to have Matrix sheme of protection in there. Then go ahead buy Matrix games. Am I restraining you?
This is totally off topic, I’m not concerned with Matrix I’m concerned that one of my favorite wargame designers is using a protection scheme that is going to prevent me from enjoying his work. The fact he is one of my favorite designers makes it a big issue for me. So to understand this, assume SES asked you to do something you would never (on principle) do before they allowed you to buy a game from them.
You vehemently defend their protection scheme, so I assume you are as enamored with Norm’s games as I am. If you’re intellectually honest you’ll understand then why this “issue” is such a big deal to some of us.
Norm and Jim, even if you have 1000 sale, don't give in to those guys now, just for a principle. I would go broke but I would certanly not allow that anyone blackmails me and harras me.
If that is not a attack on wargaming hobby in general than I certanly want to see one. So excuse me - me here have different opinion than you Senor.
It’s not an attack on them, they are asking us to change our principled stance on not supporting software that utilizes intrusive copy protection. So the dilemma from our standpoint is change our principles or give up on ever enjoying Norm’s games again. That or hopefully convincing them to change their scheme, which seems very unlikely.
Can someone see lame situation here? And no win situation for wargames... Destructive minds at play I guess.
Mario
It’s only lame to you because you don’t share my principles on the issue. Try and have some respect for other peoples opinions, to us it’s a big deal. Please respect that.
Jim
Don Maddox
28 Feb 06, 17:39
Until the question is answered it will and shall remain our number one concern with the game, because it’s the only thing keeping us from buying the darn game.
Jim, what exactly is your question? It may have gotten lost amid all the posts flying in here. I doubt the developers are spending much time sorting through all this clutter. Please post your question in the following thread if it has not already been answered:
http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38593
Lempereur1
28 Feb 06, 17:45
You ca move from one computer where the demo game is installed to any other computer where the demo game is installed without connecting to the SES server.
This way you can move it to yor laptop for yor trip, then move it back when you are ready! When you move the activation, the install becomes a demo again.
If someones system crashes, we can activate a new installation. The old one is now deactivated and can never be updated or play multiplayer with purchased l copies. The legal copies are also notified that someone with a hacked version is trying to join a game.
See ya!
Lempereur1
28 Feb 06, 17:53
People from the UK are the ONLY posters who post "Proper English".
I was pointing to persons claiming to be from Belgium.
Ironically, here in the states, the hill people in the Appilacian Mountains have been the brundt of jokes because they say "I reckon", when in fact that is proper Queens English speech left over here from the colonial days of British rule and spoken daily by modern day British!
Jim: you are correct in your observations, but there are almost always slight differences.
Now there's the answer. Thanks.
Jim Burns
28 Feb 06, 17:57
Lohengrin posted this question a few days ago which sums it up well:
It's really a simple issue, and a valid one to us consumers: If the game is completely uninstalled (by user or by computer malfunction), will we be able to reinstall it again without going through a reactivation procedure or, worse, having to repurchase the game?
Mr. Rose just answered it with this reply:
If someones system crashes, we can activate a new installation. The old one is now deactivated and can never be updated or play multiplayer with purchased l copies. The legal copies are also notified that someone with a hacked version is trying to join a game.
Unfortunately this is bad news for me personally in that it is apparent that if there is no active activation server or customer service center available anymore, a lost game due to system crash or whatever is lost forever.
Too bad SES can’t put some kind of a timer in the code that would simply disable/remove all activation requirements in 5 years or something. This alone would be enough to make me a buyer.
Jim
Ivan Bajlo
28 Feb 06, 18:35
Matrix = M$? :nuts:
We must get some reality check. Some customers have really gotten agressive in their demands, rights and whatever. To hell with that kind of "democracy".
It is called free market and freedom of speech you commie. :p
Jim, let's release game, don't fall on their rumblings that it will hurt your sales.
Someone might think your the one secretly working for Matrix luring Rose into a trap? :p
Or everyone at this board is on Matrix payroll and planning SES demise. :devious:
Ah, communistic model of bullying group of people not to buy some product... Really nasty. Ah, what a justice I see in this guys behavious, WHAT A JUSTICE! They are on a world crusade. Pathetic.
IIRC David Heath nickname use to be Der Fuhrer so his methods would be nazi terror - just our luck to have "two crazy dictators" running the industry. :laugh:
Ivan Bajlo
28 Feb 06, 18:36
So I really didn't know that wargamers can be such champions in stupidity and attacking SES is just that. Champions of stupidity.
If this forum were to be in Croatia, I believe bashing potential customer would be very bad for your personall business. :p
Also, you ca move from one computer where the demo game is installed to any other computer where the demo game is installed without connecting to the SES server.
This way you can move it to yor laptop for yor trip, then move it back when you are ready! When you move the activation, the install becomes a demo again.
If someones system crashes, we can activate a new installation. The old one is now deactivated and can never be updated or play multiplayer with purchased l copies. The legal copies are also notified that someone with a hacked version is trying to join a game.
See ya!
So if at any time you should go out of business for any reason, then if our system crashes, no more game, correct?
Lempereur1
28 Feb 06, 21:15
No,
If we go out of business, we release the code to remove the copy protection, as stated eailer by Norm...
Don Maddox
28 Feb 06, 21:32
Are there any other questions about the copy protection issue? If there are this is probably a good time to ask them. But I imagine that most everyone's questions on this issue have now been addressed here:
http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38593
While I do appreciate that this is indeed an important issue that many people here were interested in, it also bears mentioning that there are many aspects of the game engine itself that players may want to ask about since the developers have been visiting.
No,
If we go out of business, we release the code to remove the copy protection, as stated eailer by Norm...
Perfect...
A new customer is born. :)
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 05:02
If this is true, then let me ask you a question. Why do you “hate” Matrix Games? As a gamer I feel they’ve done just as much for wargaming as Talonsoft ever did. There has to be some reason to hate an entity like a company and I usually find it’s due to professional reasons.
I actually don't hate Matrix games. Good things about them SSG is there for example - one of my favorite developers and they brought Warlords game before. So I cannot say that I hate Matrix. What bothers me with Matrix is two things:
1) They own Wargamer.com I don't like this - ie. that is not good
2) I will come to this also later I LIKE TO SEE MORE SUBJECTS!!!
Do you prefer to have 50 states in USA or 2-3???
What is better for you? For me is better that you have 50 subjects there and not just 2-3! You get that? So, it's fundamenthally wrong to attack NEW SUBJECT ON WARGAMING SCENE AND THAT IS SES! No copy protection issue is good enough argument! Yes, and I would like lot's more companies like SES - we don't need just Matrix model. Yes, maybe it is good for you but I would like to see a lot's more subjects!
I can only read about how stupid I am so many times before I begin to suspect I’m being fed a line of bull. I’ve not held discourse with you before on any gaming topics I know of, so I’ve so far been giving you the benefit of the doubt.
OK, I apologize!
But, sorry you still all fail to see what you have done wrong. But if you cannot see it I will not repeat this. I don't have time for this anymore, all is said. Jim Rose as well said all - no point of talking about copy protection anymore.
It’s also very hard to respond to such over the top aggressive text. At some point the reader simply stops reading your post. Civil conversation always elicits a response, but if someone disagrees with you and you lash out in your replies, you shouldn’t be surprised when people stop taking you seriously.
OK, yes.
I only got aggressive on USENET after I saw a very respected member of our community get maliciously and falsely attacked. Eddy works tirelessly and does a lot for nothing in return, he has been a very real resource to the PC wargaming community. He did not deserve to be attacked simply because like me he would like a simple answer to a simple question.
OK. But... you all also failed to be a little more flexible.
No you’re wrong, I did not ignore your arguments, I disagreed wholeheartedly with them. At some point the discussion was over when it was apparent we disagreed, why am I obligated to either change my mind or debate with you endlessly?
No, it's your right to disagree. But, when I win some argument for me is rude that other side next time "forget" about this and intentionally continue to push their argument that is already lost. Aha.... Well, I will not remind you again and again.
In fact this isn’t a debate, copy protection is preventing me from buying a game I want. This makes it an important issue to me and not to you. So why do you feel it’s necessary for you to interject yourself into the middle of my dilemma. You can’t answer my question so piling on post after post telling me to shut up is rude in the extreme.
OK, now you got your answer. Will you continue your crusade? :p
Funny thing is there would probably be half as many posts on the topic if you and others hadn’t felt it necessary to interject. No one likes being told to shut up so a response is almost a certainty ad infinitum.
No one likes to get lies into his face as well. What did you said, when company of Norm Koger went out of business we will not be able to play the game. AHEM!
PLEASE CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN FOR ME I DIDN'T HEARD THIS: AND HELLO THAT WAS ONE OF YOUR SUBTLE WAY OF BULLYING PEOPLE NOT TO BUY THIS GAME!!! NOW GO TO GOOGLE GROUPS AND DO A SEARCH GROUPS!!!!
I am not bullying anyone. I post my thoughts and they can choose to accept or ignore them. It’s called freedom. I am a member of the wargaming community online and I listen to others in the community and hope they listen to me in turn. It’s a hobby for me and I enjoy the discourse with others in my hobby. If what concerns me concerns them we talk about it, it’s simple.
See above. And you were wrong as well that we will not be able to play game on another computer. Yes, it couldn't be played on TWO PC'S BUT CERTANLY THAT IS NOT SES NOVELTY ALONE!!!
It’s not an attack on them, they are asking us to change our principled stance on not supporting software that utilizes intrusive copy protection. So the dilemma from our standpoint is change our principles or give up on ever enjoying Norm’s games again. That or hopefully convincing them to change their scheme, which seems very unlikely.
Ah, so you failed to see that any developers will not likely change their copy protection sheme now when 98% of game is finished? It's their decision. Your decision is also your decision.
It’s only lame to you because you don’t share my principles on the issue. Try and have some respect for other peoples opinions, to us it’s a big deal. Please respect that.
No problem when you now answer to my facts now... And when you also admit that there were things you were wrong. I respect your opinion in any case.
Mario
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 05:09
Also, you ca move from one computer where the demo game is installed to any other computer where the demo game is installed without connecting to the SES server.
This way you can move it to yor laptop for yor trip, then move it back when you are ready! When you move the activation, the install becomes a demo again.
If someones system crashes, we can activate a new installation. The old one is now deactivated and can never be updated or play multiplayer with purchased l copies. The legal copies are also notified that someone with a hacked version is trying to join a game.
See ya!
OK, no problem Jim....
This says it all.
Mario
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 05:11
No,
If we go out of business, we release the code to remove the copy protection, as stated eailer by Norm...
Hey Jim, but guys on Usenet said that it will not be that way :)
Just as I said, their Nostradamus was not in good future tellling mode.
Mario
PS. Usenet voters - ask for another round of votes.
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 05:16
It is called free market and freedom of speech you commie. :p
Hmm, no. As I said making false accusation on Usenet is not freedom of speech. Now thare is lot bad publicity around Usenet.
But, I know how it all started so to remind you: if now we know that game can be played after hip. SES is out of business than previous assumption was A LIE!
A lie is not freedom of speech. Etc...
Mario
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 05:19
If this forum were to be in Croatia, I believe bashing potential customer would be very bad for your personall business. :p
I already answered this - potential customers have also made up whole story that is not true to their initial imagination.
So first put all facts on the table honestly no problem and then everyone decide for himself.
I don't see any better option than this. So I just don't defend SES just for a kick and fun, and because I enjoyed TOAW etc... I defend a principle.
Mario
Jim Burns
01 Mar 06, 06:11
I actually don't hate Matrix games. Good things about them SSG is there for example - one of my favorite developers and they brought Warlords game before. So I cannot say that I hate Matrix. What bothers me with Matrix is two things:
1) They own Wargamer.com I don't like this - ie. that is not good
2) I will come to this also later I LIKE TO SEE MORE SUBJECTS!!!
Do you prefer to have 50 states in USA or 2-3???
What is better for you? For me is better that you have 50 subjects there and not just 2-3! You get that? So, it's fundamenthally wrong to attack NEW SUBJECT ON WARGAMING SCENE AND THAT IS SES! No copy protection issue is good enough argument! Yes, and I would like lot's more companies like SES - we don't need just Matrix model. Yes, maybe it is good for you but I would like to see a lot's more subjects!
Ok I see where you’re coming from. Since the main topic of this thread has finally been answered, hijacking the thread isn’t a possibility I guess, so it’s ok to verge off on a tangent here and get into another topic.
Business is business no matter what you’re selling. For my following point, it is important to remember that Matrix is the new kid on the block in wargaming when compared to Strategy First, Shrapnel, HPS, Paradox, etc.
Matrix’s meteoric rise to the top has to be for a reason. I mean each and every deal they’ve signed was an independent decision reached on the part of the different developers involved. It’s not as if they all got together and said lets pile onboard the Matrix train and screw the other publishers.
This leads me to believe Matrix has brought something to the table that the other guys don’t or won’t offer. In business this is called innovation and it happens all the time. What I suspect this will lead to is a changing of the system over time as competitors either adapt to the new reality or fade from the game all together.
The music industry is a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Existing companies are fighting tooth and nail to try and keep it like it was, but the fact is CD stores are becoming obsolete with high bandwidth downloads of individual songs, so companies that produce albums and music stores like Tower records and the like are rapidly becoming obsolete.
Another example is the old saying “The last buggy whip store around was probably the best damn buggy whip store there ever was, but the innovation of automobiles doomed even them to failure.”
Whatever Matrix is doing different, it is changing the way wargaming is done on a publishing level. Until others adapt or new companies spring up, they’ll probably stay in a dominate position, but it’s just a symptom of good business. Things will balance out eventually.
But for wargaming in general it has been a good thing in my opinion, the same way a dominate Talonsoft was a good thing. Wargaming is a niche market, so getting the word out about your new game is always an expensive proposition for independent developers. With a company like Matrix or Talonsoft backing your game, you can pretty much guarantee a large percentage of your total market will see your product with little or no advertising dollars needed.
And for consumer, it makes it a lot easier to find what’s out there without needing advanced computer skills to know how to look for it online.
OK, I apologize!
But, sorry you still all fail to see what you have done wrong. But if you cannot see it I will not repeat this. I don't have time for this anymore, all is said. Jim Rose as well said all - no point of talking about copy protection anymore.
Thank you, apology accepted. But in my opinion I have done nothing wrong, hence it is a disagreement between us, that’s all. I do understand what you think I’ve done, I just don’t agree with your position. A free market economy means that the customers are the ones who decide in the long run what works and what doesn’t. I am a customer and my grievances and whether they have an effect or not on any given issue are all part of that free market process.
OK. But... you all also failed to be a little more flexible.
LOL there you go again. We did listen to you and we disagreed with you. You did the same with us, it was a discussion between two disagreeing parties, why do you feel opinions HAD to change? I mean now that my question has been answered, I’m wrestling internally with my decision on whether to buy or not. None of your arguments we’ve had can help me, because my underlying issue is I hate intrusive copy protection. You don’t, so we’ve simply reached an impasse that’s all.
No, it's your right to disagree. But, when I win some argument for me is rude that other side next time "forget" about this and intentionally continue to push their argument that is already lost. Aha.... Well, I will not remind you again and again.
This is where we totally part views. I never saw any of the discussion topics as arguments to be won or lost. They were topics of discussion and people read them and made up there own minds. No wonder you got so stressed out, you were trying to have a debate, while we were simply talking.
OK, now you got your answer. Will you continue your crusade? :p
LOL I’m not on any crusade. I have a new dilemma in that I have to decide whether I think their scheme is too intrusive or not ‘for me’. I may or may not discuss this with others, but if I do, my reasons will be the same as they always have been. To discuss things that concern me in PC wargaming.
Why on earth are you so determined to muffle those of us you disagree with on this topic? I can’t think of anyone who will or has ever made a buying decision based on what I might say about my buying decisions. Sure they take what I say into consideration I guess, but in the end it’s always their own decision.
No one likes to get lies into his face as well. What did you said, when company of Norm Koger went out of business we will not be able to play the game. AHEM!
PLEASE CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN FOR ME I DIDN'T HEARD THIS: AND HELLO THAT WAS ONE OF YOUR SUBTLE WAY OF BULLYING PEOPLE NOT TO BUY THIS GAME!!! NOW GO TO GOOGLE GROUPS AND DO A SEARCH GROUPS!!!!
I always used terms like “it appears” or “I suspect.” It was only after a long time that it became “apparent” that our fears may be right. But I never said I new anything, in fact I was always questioning. That was the premise of the whole issue, no one would answer the questions. You’ve come very close to calling me a liar here and unless you can post a cite (you can’t I’ve checked) I suggest you drop this now.
See above. And you were wrong as well that we will not be able to play game on another computer. Yes, it couldn't be played on TWO PC'S BUT CERTANLY THAT IS NOT SES NOVELTY ALONE!!!
I never said it can’t be played on 2 PC’s, I said “my guess is” one install would be disabled before you could install it to a second PC. Guess what, my suspicions were correct.
Ah, so you failed to see that any developers will not likely change their copy protection sheme now when 98% of game is finished? It's their decision. Your decision is also your decision.
I agree, but I never wanted to change their decision. I hoped to change it but doubted it could seriously happen without their business failing first. I simply wanted more info which I now have.
No problem when you now answer to my facts now... And when you also admit that there were things you were wrong. I respect your opinion in any case.
Mario
Ok, I’ve answered your facts. And neither of us was wrong Mario, we just don’t agree. You have to let go of the notion it’s a debate that can be solved.
Jim
Ivan Bajlo
01 Mar 06, 07:18
Ok, I’ve answered your facts. And neither of us was wrong Mario, we just don’t agree. You have to let go of the notion it’s a debate that can be solved.
Jim
Mario letting something go? :laugh:
Ivan Bajlo
01 Mar 06, 07:21
A lie is not freedom of speech. Etc...
Yes it is, if the politicians would be only telling us the truth imagine how horribly the World would look like. :laugh:
Ivan Bajlo
01 Mar 06, 07:24
I actually don't hate Matrix games. Good things about them SSG is there for example - one of my favorite developers and they brought Warlords game before. So I cannot say that I hate Matrix. What bothers me with Matrix is two things:
1) They own Wargamer.com I don't like this - ie. that is not good
Well I didn't like post takeover witch hunts either, but I'm sort of grateful I got chased off since it made me start my own website from scratch and now I got 2000 pages monster. :cool:
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 10:06
Ok, I’ve answered your facts. And neither of us was wrong Mario, we just don’t agree. You have to let go of the notion it’s a debate that can be solved.
OK, I actually agree with you on many topic except few minor ones :laugh:
And nice intro on Matrix - I may slightly disagree with you but in the end you are right that market is final judge.
On a end note I am pretty dead tired on this copy protection issue and I agree that everyone can have their own opinion and our TV audience will decide who is right or wrong :p
:devious: till next time. Bloodstar jumps on his horse....:horse:
Mario
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 10:07
Mario letting something go? :laugh:
:nuts: In fact yes.... :violin:
Mario
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 10:09
Well I didn't like post takeover witch hunts either, but I'm sort of grateful I got chased off since it made me start my own website from scratch and now I got 2000 pages monster. :cool:
Shameless promotion :devious:
But, in defence of Wargamer and Matrix, if DH was there before that was maybe reason for takeover...
Mario
Ivan Bajlo
01 Mar 06, 11:29
Shameless promotion :devious:
:halo:
But, in defence of Wargamer and Matrix, if DH was there before that was maybe reason for takeover...
I'm quite familiar with entire thing including old TGN and other stuff but that would make a way to long off topic post for which I would get banned for certain because of opening of Pandora's box... and I still keep all the old e-mails just in case I need to dig up some dirt on somebody. :devil:
P.S.
Maybe one day over a drink I tell you about it...
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if the firestorm over the protection issue would have been as great if Matrix was releasing DG?
(Before I get accused of Matrix-hating, I do think they are an important factor in the small wargaming industry. I like a lot of what they do.)
Ivan Bajlo
01 Mar 06, 11:51
Just thinking out loud but I wonder if the firestorm over the protection issue would have been as great if Matrix was releasing DG?
It all depends if they would be smart enough to keep there mouth shut and don't tell anyone. ;)
But then we would have all this after it gets published, although we can expect some in this case also it will be much less since certain persons won't buy game immediately keeping eye out for newbie's will they get burned so they can victoriously yell they were right! :devil:
Or if nothing happens and everyone keeps praising the game the they'll just buy bloody thing and keep there head down... :rolleyes:
Lohengrin
01 Mar 06, 14:26
Also, you [can] move from one computer where the demo game is installed to any other computer where the demo game is installed without connecting to the SES server.
...
If someones system crashes, we can activate a new installation. The old one is now deactivated and can never be updated or play multiplayer with purchased l copies. The legal copies are also notified that someone with a hacked version is trying to join a game.
Thank you Lempereur for this attempt to answer the question I posed. I'm not sure what the highlighted words imply; either that the customer can activate a new installation automatically (that deactivates his lost one), or else he has to contact SES via email and persuade them he's not a pirate or something then SES will take some steps to issue the new activation by some special means.
My concern here is that when I buy a game, I expect to own a copy. If my copy cannot be self-contained on a disk somewhere, I would get a little nervous about how solid my ownership really is. Somewhere in your reply I get a little comfort from the fact that I can uninstall and reinstall without reactivation if I so decide. But I remain uneasy about the crash/unintended wipe scenario. I've never bought a game under those circumstances before.
So I guess I'll have to ponder this set up to determine how comfortable I am with the degree of game ownership you're offering. I appreciate Norm's concern with getting paid for his intellectual property; I just need to convince myself that I'm getting my end of the bargain as well.
I really love the look, subject and apparent gameplay of DG. I'm sorry to be in a quandary here... :nuts:
Bloodstar
01 Mar 06, 15:51
P.S.
Maybe one day over a drink I tell you about it...[/QUOTE]
Hehe, sure, I love that kind of thing! :smoke:
Mario
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