TOAW vs HOI2

[DarthCycle]

I've played countless hours of Hearts of Iron 1 and 2 and really enjoy it.

How does TOAW scenarios, Europe Aflame for example, compared to the HOI series?

I like the ease of play of HOI2, I wonder how difficult is TOAW compared to it. Is it a giant step in terms of complexity?

I use to play boardgame like World in Flames and Star Fleet Battles, so I can handle complexity.

[Bloodstar]

I've played countless hours of Hearts of Iron 1 and 2 and really enjoy it.

How does TOAW scenarios, Europe Aflame for example, compared to the HOI series?

I like the ease of play of HOI2, I wonder how difficult is TOAW compared to it. Is it a giant step in terms of complexity?

I use to play boardgame like World in Flames and Star Fleet Battles, so I can handle complexity.


Good evening,


I have played HoI 2 as well so I can compare it. Well, it's not just matter of complexity as both games are complex.

Let's put it this way - HoI 2 can be learned pretty fast, and many secrets are learned pretty fast.

TOAW secrets are learned in span of months, or even years :) it is just that... some things will logically comes in time, just by pure players logic, looking at help helps, forums etc...


Mario

[piero1971]

...or in decades Mario, decades!


well, HOI 1 and 2 allow for many aspects of strategy, where TOAW is operational and it is difficult to portray things such as economy and scientific development, etc.

[Bloodstar]

...or in decades Mario, decades!


:laugh: Yes, Piero, or decades hah...


Mario

[Raver]

...or in decades Mario, decades!


well, HOI 1 and 2 allow for many aspects of strategy, where TOAW is operational and it is difficult to portray things such as economy and scientific development, etc.


Yes. This is exactly the difference - no production or research in Europe Aflame, but a much more detailled operational engine - ie real control over your units.

[viridomaros]

for me hoi and toaw have nothing in common

though hoi can be good in some aspects, toaw is far better when it comes to the battle. It's not just that toaw is more complex it's that it allows you a lot more things. In toaw paratroopers are quite usefull, i don't like them in hoi. the supply system is better for toaw as both forces don't have the same supply value etc....

in general i would say so far as fighting is concerned go for toaw :)
if you prefer the planning, economic then hoi2 is the game to play

[liuzg150181]

The scale and scope are really different,TOAW is operational scope while HoI2 is Grand Strategy,thus they are of different league.
Obviously TOAW depicts the war much better than HoI2 but if you are a control freak then it is of course HoI2.

[Aries]

It is "possible" to like both games.

It is "possible to hate both games too I suppose.

But one thing that isn't "possible" is to compare the two against each other in a level playing field sort of way.

Some will call some aspects of each a bonus just as easily as some will call the exact same aspect a minus.

And they are indeed two totally different experiences.

You can compare real time games against each other, and you can compare turn based games against each other. But, there really isn't any realistic, or worthy, method of comparing the two against each other.

This isn't apples and oranges. One is an apple, the other a soccer ball :) (both are round).

[Jim Cobb]

Comparision is a futile effort. TOAW is about battles and units such as divisions; HOI is actually about countries.

[DarthCycle]

Thanks for the great feedback,

since TOAW doesn't support production and research, how does it depict the evolution of WWII through the years? Are there events/scripts to send reinforcements?

Or is TOAW a game where you start a scenario with a set number of units and you have to use them as best as you can?

Is there an extensive review or a detailed AAR somewhere that would help me better understand what TOAW has to offer?

[viridomaros]

most of the time you do have reinforcement scheduled and sometimes you can chose which reinforcements you want to receive but usually that kind of move has its cost. for the AAR, i suggest you have a look at the forum for after action reports
it's a subforum of this one. There are some good aar there, you'll see what the game looks like.

[Aries]

TOAW is best described as 20 years worth of the best in board games you bought during the 70s and 80s.

Think board game, put it on a computer, you have the idea. No rules arguing though, the program won't care if you flip through the manual and dispute something :)

HoI2, well I never played anything off computer that compares with it. Maybe something like Supremacy where you didn't need to wait for others to play their turns, and you just played as fast as you could roll the dice and move the units (but in a WW2 setting, and no nukes).

[Jim Cobb]

TOAW is actually old. I think I reviewed it for a print mag in the late '90s. You'll need to Google for it.

I feel it's best at the operational (brigade/regiment) level. People have tried it at higher or lower levels and the engine seems to fail at the extremes.

[Siberian HEAT]

I've just recently done a review of TOAW:ACOW to correspond to Matrix Games gaining the rights to make improvements to it. That review is on SZO.

http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/articles.php?content=article_disp&p=560&page=1&cat=52

Also, to get a feeling of some of the excellent strategic opportunities of Europe Aflame (arguably the most popular scenario for TOAW, and definitely Grand Operational in nature, if not out and out Strategic), please check out this article.

http://www.armchairgeneral.com/articles.php?p=1810&page=1

[Karri]

The two games are not comparable. In TOAW all 'grand strategic' decision are hard-coded(theather options. etc) in HoI/2 there's no tactical side in the game...Grand Strategy and Operationl wargame. One thing they have in common is that both are the best products in their own field.

[Jim Cobb]

One thing they have in common is that both are the best products in their own field.

Well said.