The operational plan

[Artur]

Comrades,

We have to start discussing the operational plan. Here are some questions to be answered.

1. Which units are for "holding the line" and in what form? How big area does a mechanized battalion have to hold?
2. Which are our offensive units?
3. Which units are our reserves and where/how to place them?
4. How maby supply units shall we have and where?
5. Where shall we place our ADA units?
6. Which objective shall we attempt to take first?
7.Where should we attack/defend?
8. Some alternative plans variations.
9. Where and how shall we use our recon?
10.Where does the terrain favour us and where the enemy?
11. How shall we use our Air assets?
12. How can we SURPRISE the enemy?

Artur.

[Artur]

Here I post my modified COCAT map. everybody should take a look - it can be examined without COCAT. I marked the paved roads and streams on the map. Why? The paved roads double movement The streams are a great obstacle because WinSPMBT does not have bridge laying units and a lot of vechicles stuck in the streams.

Hexes marked with RED are the objective areas!!!

EDIT:deleted WP.uni

Artur.

[Artur]

Here are the WP and NATO uni files. I have nt added Air&ADA to the uni files yet.

Enjoy:).

Artur.

[wulfir]

1. Which units are for "holding the line" and in what form?

According to H StorM 3 (Handbok Stormakten del 3*)

Defence was primarily to be entrusted to wheelgoing armoured infantry units (i.e. BTR) reinforced with tanks per normal SOP. While tracked armoured infantry units (BMP) could be used in defence under certain circumstances they were intended to be deployed in depth and used for counterattacks.

In defence the battalion was normally deployed with two rifle companies up front, with the third in reserve. If all three was deployed in the line one platoon was detached to act as a reserve.


*roughly translates to The Great Power Handbook part 3.
In training manuals the Swedish military often refered to the Soviet Union as "the Great Power" or "the enemy".
NATO was called "the main adversary of the enemy".


However, the speed of the BTR might be useful in the attack and the heavy arment of the BMP might prove useful in the defence.... :)

hmmm... the idea of a detached counterattack force for the defending unit sounds good IMHO, if it is possible given limits on how many companies etc can be present in a battle etc.

[Artur]

According to H StorM 3 (Handbok Stormakten del 3*)

Defence was primarily to be entrusted to wheelgoing armoured infantry units (i.e. BTR) reinforced with tanks per normal SOP. While tracked armoured infantry units (BMP) could be used in defence under certain circumstances they were intended to be deployed in depth and used for counterattacks.

In defence the battalion was normally deployed with two rifle companies up front, with the third in reserve. If all three was deployed in the line one platoon was detached to act as a reserve.


*roughly translates to The Great Power Handbook part 3.
In training manuals the Swedish military often refered to the Soviet Union as "the Great Power" or "the enemy".
NATO was called "the main adversary of the enemy".


However, the speed of the BTR might be useful in the attack and the heavy arment of the BMP might prove useful in the defence.... :)

hmmm... the idea of a detached counterattack force for the defending unit sounds good IMHO, if it is possible given limits on how many companies etc can be present in a battle etc.

It is quite interesting to read this. What I don't understand is that how could the BMPs use their ATGMs in an assault? Maybe the problem is with the SP engine where a BMP is not that much harder to destroy with a tank gun or ATGM or inf AT weapons than a BTR. So in game terms I see sacrificing BMPs a waste. We have to keep them alive and fill their expensive ATGMs every operational turn.

What is your view about this comrades?

Artur.

[azog_]

I thinked this too and i would say that majority of BTRs could be used in offensive and BMPs with ATGM would primarly be used in defense. BMPs other advantage though is that it's gun can destroy light vehicles, some it could be useful in offensive.

I examined the OOBs a bit a few days ago, and counted the forces. These figures are approximate, not including every small unit but it gives some picture:

WP forces:
41 infantry companies
23 armor companies
24 artillery batteries
6 antitank companies
9 recon companies

NATO forces:
26 infantry companies
11 armor companies
10 artillery batteries
8 mortar batteries
6 antitank companies
6 recon companies

Im not sure if those all are correct,in some cases i've just roughly combined forces to count as a company, but anyway i think the dividing the units to company size gives some picture what we and they really got.

One question raised into my mind while observing the East German OOB 9th MRR.
The artillery unit is titled as battalion but it only has 6 sp guns, so is it a battalion or battery ? Soviet MRRs have a battalion.

[Double Deuce]

One question raised into my mind while observing the East German OOB 9th MRR.
The artillery unit is titled as battalion but it only has 6 sp guns, so is it a battalion or battery ? Soviet MRRs have a battalion.It is an understrength battalion. ;)

[Vesku]

Looking at the map gives an idea of putting up a defensive line along the southern section of the front while pushing towards the objectives with a smallish force while our main attack could rush the northern road and cut south behind the enemy lines.

The rough and wooded terrain in the south is easy to defend with rather light mechinfantry screen and leaves us with plenty of terrain to trade.

This plan has the drawback of being rather obvious, I don't think that enemy is planning to attack through the south so we might end up ramming straigth into advancing enemy.

In any case, I recommend to advance at every mainroad so we don't give out our main attack in first contact. Let the enemy do some work to find out which spear has stout shaft.

Vesku

[Tanker]

Here I post my modified COCAT map. everybody should take a look - it can be examined without COCAT. I marked the paved roads and streams on the map. Why? The paved roads double movement The streams are a great obstacle because WinSPMBT does not have bridge laying units and a lot of vechicles stuck in the streams.

Hexes marked with RED are the objective areas!!!

I laso post here my WP.uni file which is a simple draft, but good enough to help me thinking about the operational plan. NATO.uni will be created whn I can do it.

Artur.

Where is our starting line on this map?

[wulfir]

What I don't understand is that how could the BMPs use their ATGMs in an assault?

That will probably be pretty hard..., some kind of overwatch might work but against a skilled opponent that will leave those BMPs pretty exposed.

The gun of a BMP could be useful in the attack though I think...

[Double Deuce]

Where is our starting line on this map?The x3 Company size reconassaince units from the current OOB's will be deployed in any hex of row 7 on the Operational Map.

ALL other Pact units will deploy North of Hex Row 4 (or Hex Rows 1-3) when we get to that point. For those with an Operational COCAT, that is basically any hex North of the 68 (East-West) Grid Line.

[Artur]

The x3 Company size reconassaince units from the current OOB's will be deployed in any hex of row 7 on the Operational Map.

ALL other Pact units will deploy North of Hex Row 4 (or Hex Rows 1-3) when we get to that point. For those with an Operational COCAT, that is basically any hex North of the 68 (East-West) Grid Line.

Comrades, that will be a north-south setup at the beginning and not an east-west as we used to. Of course, this has not to remain the same throughout the casmpaign, I will post some ideas.

Artur.

[Artur]

In any case, I recommend to advance at every mainroad so we don't give out our main attack in first contact. Let the enemy do some work to find out which spear has stout shaft.

Vesku

While we cannot advance in the beginning along the main roads because of the north-south deploynent the general idea of hiding the spearhead is excellent. I wish to have that element in the operational plan.

More ideas please :).

Artur.

[Tanker]

Here I post my modified COCAT map. everybody should take a look - it can be examined without COCAT. I marked the paved roads and streams on the map. Why? The paved roads double movement The streams are a great obstacle because WinSPMBT does not have bridge laying units and a lot of vechicles stuck in the streams.



Artur.

Artur, can your modified map be used in our cocat programs? Yes, it works. Quite informative.

The southern map is channelized by rivers into 3 avenues of approach to the objectives. It will not be simple for Nato to shift forces E-W over a large portion of their section of the map, at least tactically. They do have paved e-w roads.

Our recon companies if placed in the 7th row from the north can occupy the red objective areas at once.

Artur, where did you get these objectives from?

Nato, if likewise constrained to 7 rows for initial placement of recon forces will be far from the red objective areas.

[Artur]

Artur, can your modified map be used in our cocat programs?

Yes. I use it . It is the most zoomed-out view good for thinking about the "big picture".

Artur.

[Artur]

I updated the WP unit file. Noone noticed some major inaccuracies...

Artur.

[Artur]

I thinked this too and i would say that majority of BTRs could be used in offensive and BMPs with ATGM would primarly be used in defense. BMPs other advantage though is that it's gun can destroy light vehicles, some it could be useful in offensive.

I examined the OOBs a bit a few days ago, and counted the forces. These figures are approximate, not including every small unit but it gives some picture:

WP forces:
41 infantry companies
23 armor companies
24 artillery batteries
6 antitank companies
9 recon companies

NATO forces:
26 infantry companies
11 armor companies
10 artillery batteries
8 mortar batteries
6 antitank companies
6 recon companies

Im not sure if those all are correct,in some cases i've just roughly combined forces to count as a company, but anyway i think the dividing the units to company size gives some picture what we and they really got.

One question raised into my mind while observing the East German OOB 9th MRR.
The artillery unit is titled as battalion but it only has 6 sp guns, so is it a battalion or battery ? Soviet MRRs have a battalion.

Well done. examining the OOBs will give you a clearer picture on the battlefield. I have done quite similar summary in my force analysis. We have to keep in mind that NATO companies are 1,5 or 2 times the size of our companies.

Artur.

[mr_clark]

Well done. examining the OOBs will give you a clearer picture on the battlefield. I have done quite similar summary in my force analysis. We have to keep in mind that NATO companies are 1,5 or 2 times the size of our companies.

Artur.
Hmm good point. But artillery has the same size doesn't it?
So at least we have the firepower advantage there,

[Vesku]

Cam, I just checked that the objectives of the battle are DD7, EE7 and EE8 on the west. Check the pic. We need to take the proceccing plant and surrounding hills. Do you want me to change from defence to advance (as long as there is time to do it against recon)? My troops are at the line hill451, hill453 and Stritzling which is a little off the objectives.

[Cameronius]

Yes,
If we can take the objective areas we can gain the initiative in the operational battle. Keep the screenshots/attachments coming in the reports.

Cam