unused event?

[Dan Neely]

Bulgaria enters with an 80% probability following Turkey entering on the allied side, but turkey will only enter if the allies capture the Bulgarian capital of Sophia. I assume this is a leftover from when an early italy would create an allied turkey instead of activating yugosalvia.

[SkyVon]

Also, how about combining the two pre-war Axis TO's? Is anyone selecting just one of those two options for early builds? If combined, this would free up about 3-4 events?

[Dan Neely]

I take the cariers but not the rest. the torpedo bombers are ncie for when you can catch the RN at sea, but the EV penalty for the rest of the builds is too severe IMO to justify the returns.

[Mark Stevens]

Good spot! Now, what nonsense shall I use it for?

[Chuck?]

What happens if the Axis declares war on Turkey though? Is it still 80% chance?

[Dan Neely]

Originally posted by Chuck
What happens if the Axis declares war on Turkey though? Is it still 80% chance?

since Bulgaria enters with 100% probability after Yugoslavia surrenders I don't think it's an important concern. IMO it's extremely unlikely that the axis would invade turkey prior to securing it's rear. Like the axis TO to declare war on Portugal after Spain enters it's a very rare occurence: Portugul enters with 85% automatically, and since it has a 50% chance of entering when the US does any prudent axis general would want to take it out asap anyway. It's annother set of events that IMO could be put to better use by just making portugese entry automatic.

As for what to do with them, killing the Soviet dow, and keeping Skorzeny rescues Mussilli would be one option. alternatively you could have the fascist corps enter automatically when rome fell, but with 1% readyness (so they cuoldn't be used for a month or 2) and save the events for a rainy day. We all know that sooner or later *something* will turn up.

[Mark Stevens]

True, true...it's the alligators that you don't see that bite you.

For the time being I'll use it to cancel Turkey 'entering the war' once Sofia falls even if Turkey has already surrendered, but it's effectively spare.

[Dan Neely]

If you don't have anything better to use it for, I'd suggest using it to reverse one of the mediterianian supply shifts. As is stands, if chased out, the allies don't have any important reason to return, but retaking Gibralter and Suez to avoid having to ship around the horn of africa would've been an important objective.

[Mark Stevens]

Thing is with that, Dan, you need a whole series of Events to allow the supply level to fluctuate if control of the islands changes back and forward. If you look at the 'Narvik' Event List, starting with Event 32, you'll see what I ean.

[Dan Neely]

I was thinking of a 1off thing. having them swap back an indefinte number of times would be best, but even a 1time switchback like baku would be an improvement over the current situation.

[Chuck?]

Overall the supply situation is troublesome. In my Game vs Raver I have captured Gibraltar, Malta, and Crete for +7 supply. Also I have taken Murmansk, Suez, Paris, and Gibraltar from the Allies which has cost them -14 supply. Even if these hex are retaken the supply effects stay. If Raver can turn the game around the supply situation will still be a problem even late into the war.

[Kraut]

there are some events that will increase the Allied supply situation:

Selecting the Destroyer LL TO: +4
US DoW: +4
US convoys begin stockpiling supplies in the UK: +5
Allies finally drive U-boats from the Atlantic: +5

[Dan Neely]

The problem is that alot of the suply shifts that are permanent reflect things that would be reversed if retaken.

Malta/Gibralter/Crete/Suez/Murmansk/Narvik all fall into this catagory, but only narvik is currently reversable. As for the other reversable supply point, baku, I think a good case could be made for only reducing the German supply, without increasing the Russian because after being faught over twice the oil fields would be almost completely destroyed.

[Mark Stevens]

Interesting points. Perhaps, rather than increasing Allied supply, it would be better to have the Allied recapture of, say, Malta and Suez lower Axis supply as a one-off Event? I still think the game moves too fast in general, and something like this would give the Allied Player a reason to retake these locations and, if successful, would slow the tempo down. We could argue that the non-reversability represents the installations being destroyed.

I'd rather not change Baku as I'm sure that whoever held the richest source of oil in Europe would have done everything humanly possible to repair the facilities there, and neither the Germans nor the Russians were noticeably squeamish when it came to the use of slave labour in the East.

Does that sound sensible?

[Dan Neely]

Originally posted by Mark Stevens
Interesting points. Perhaps, rather than increasing Allied supply, it would be better to have the Allied recapture of, say, Malta and Suez lower Axis supply as a one-off Event? I still think the game moves too fast in general, and something like this would give the Allied Player a reason to retake these locations and, if successful, would slow the tempo down. We could argue that the non-reversability represents the installations being destroyed.


for the allied losses from Gibralter/Suez permanent destruction stikes me as rather far fetched. I suppose the canal could've been temporarily blocked by skuttling ships, but removing/destroying them would certainly be doable. You do have a point in that reversing only allied shifts would be odd, but IMO reversing only axis shifts would be just as bad. For reversal, in order I'd probabally do, allied suez, Axis Gibralter, Allied Gibralter, allied murmansk, axis Malta, axis Crete. I ordered these in the approximate order I think they're likely to happen. Suez is doomed if the axis makes a major push in africa because the germans can ship over enough corps to overwelm the brits even if they send everything south. Gibralter is a gimmie if spain is activated. I put murmansk ahead of malta becuase a reserve corp, and allied fleet will make it immune against anything less than case yellow, or possibly the sealion bonus.


I'd rather not change Baku as I'm sure that whoever held the richest source of oil in Europe would have done everything humanly possible to repair the facilities there, and neither the Germans nor the Russians were noticeably squeamish when it came to the use of slave labour in the East.


It would depend how thurough the wrecking was, the soviets scorched earth defence damaged some of the oilwells in the cuascus so severely that they were never repaired. Perhaps there should be a delay before the bonus occurs though, enough damage to temporarily shut them down is almost a given IMO.

[Chuck?]

My suggestion would be to have Malta the trigger since so few events are available. One reason is that Malta was very important for Axis shipping as it is situated right in the middle of the Mediterranean. From the island the Allies could attack ship transports going to the Balkans, North Africa, Italy, or the Middle East. In reverse the Axis could hinder most Allied shipping between Gibraltar and Egypt.

Also it is so far from the Allied strongpoints of the USSR and UK that it would take some effort to reach it. Gibraltar however is easy to retake due to it being within shipping range of the UK. The Suez can be retaken easily from either East Africa or by Soviets coming out of Iran.

[Mark Stevens]

Every supply change, even a non-reversible one, would take two Events - one 'Force 2 Occupies' and the second to change the supply level.

Also, having just typed a summary for (g) - which I think will be classed as 1.8 - I have to be honest and say that most of the changes tend to assist the Allies.

I think I'll shelve this proposal until we see how 1.8 works out, although I agree that it's worth keeping in reserve.

[Dan Neely]

killing the reconstituability of the french reorg formation is a major plus in the axis column. It roughly doubled the size of the british oob after france fell. Without it, the germans should have a much better chance of pulling off sea lion.

[Mark Stevens]

Yes, but we agreed that was an unintentional result of making them reconstitute, not a deliberate design feature.

Once you see the full summary for 1.8 - very, very soon I hope - you'll see what I mean about most of the changes favouring the Allies.

[Dan Neely]

Intentional, or not, it was still a major boost to the allies, especially with your ruling that they be treated as 'free french' instead of being removed from play. A realistic chance of being able tp pull off Sea lion would severely hamper the brits in Africa, because they won't be able to ship as much south without leaving the capital naked to attack, with gibralter taken by Spanish/german armored corps, the army in egypt will effectively be out of play because of the long transit times.