CMBB Infantry

[The Purist]

Good 'eh,

Gonzo has been kind enough to give me a training game in CMBB, Sep 44 and all that, and he has put up with my whining quite patiently. I have noticed that my infantry (regular and veteran riflemen, Red Army) tend to 'break', or 'panic' or 'rout' after a single burst of MG fire even if they have suffered minimal (one) or even no casualties. I have not noticed the same thing in BO or AK (I'm sure others involved in the 'wadi' battle will concure), they may 'pin' or 'take cover' but will usually dash for cover or run through the fire to a safe spot.

Am I suffering from some bad luck or are the PBIs in Russia just a little more skittish? :confused:

[Lurker]

:laugh: No bad luck, but rather par for the course. Though I thought all infantry were skittish in BB.

BO infantry are uber, and when combined with feeble MG units it becomes quite noticeable. It seems that support weapons - HE throwers and MGs - are much more effective in BB. I'm not sure if it's because they upgraded their potency or seriously downgraded the infantry ability to hold up. Maybe a bit of both.

AK seems a good balance of the two.

[Doctor Sinister]

:laugh: No bad luck, but rather par for the course. Though I thought all infantry were skittish in BB.

BO infantry are uber, and when combined with feeble MG units it becomes quite noticeable. It seems that support weapons - HE throwers and MGs - are much more effective in BB. I'm not sure if it's because they upgraded their potency or seriously downgraded the infantry ability to hold up. Maybe a bit of both.

AK seems a good balance of the two.
This matches my experience as well - BB is quite disconcerting to play as assaults that would work in BO or AK fall apart at the seams the moment any resistance is encountered.

Dr. S.

[Tripps]

Not having done many assaults in AK yet I cannot comment there.

But in BO infantry are bullet proof, and MG's shoot candy.

In BB however, they can get bad... You have to nurse your soldiers along, adni'm sure they only ones who follow thru with advance or assaults are they ones with the hidden fanatic trigger :)

Its a fine line I guess, i mean if an MG42 was firing at me and my 9 mates i'd probably hit the dirt as well, 1200 rounds a minute means a lot of holes in me if i dont get to cover quick sharp and inna hurry.
but i'd like to think regular soldiers and better would understand whats going, how serious the danger is, yadda yadda yadda and react a bit better rather than crapping themselves at a loud noise and running home.

[The Purist]

...but i'd like to think regular soldiers and better would understand whats going, how serious the danger is, yadda yadda yadda and react a bit better rather than crapping themselves at a loud noise and running home.

Exactly my point,.. the lads will react to various degrees on what actually happened to them, but to 'panic' and 'break' over single burst seems like nonsense. They don't seem to recover any too quickly either. :blab:

Ah, well.

[Tripps]

What was the command given to the Russian units described above?
It it was Move, or Run, and they get fired apon, the effect can be bad - but if it was Advance, or Move to Contact, its a lot better.

[KG_RangerBooBoo]

Check their platoon HQ. Is their leader called RangerBooBoo? That could easily explain the breaking and running. :laugh:

[Doctor Sinister]

What was the command given to the Russian units described above?
It it was Move, or Run, and they get fired apon, the effect can be bad - but if it was Advance, or Move to Contact, its a lot better.
Historically, the command was probably something along the lines of "engage the enemy or we kill your family".

Dr. S.

[Tripps]

I still wanna command 'look, just bloody well move forward - and ignore the harrassing fire'
or something similar - in between move/run, and advance.
Move forward, and yes your gonna get a little shooting at you, but i dont want you guys stuffing yourselves advancing 500 meters...

[ER_Chaser]

hmm... since I did not play the other two, I probably should keep quiet. But well, can't help :D ... I do not have any problems with my infantries .. .esp. russian inf. in BB :p

[Tripps]

hmm... since I did not play the other two, I probably should keep quiet. But well, can't help :D ... I do not have any problems with my infantries .. .esp. russian inf. in BB :p

From what I understand (as you have yet to try and take me on I have to rely on everybody else's account of giving you a hiding) thats because your infantries are always running away before they can be shot at :) :cheeky:

[jaegertech]

I never played much of BO, but I've done quite a lot of both BB and AK. BB infantry is definitely wimpier than AK. Generally, with BB infantry, 1/3 of an infantry group advances on a Move order while the other 2/3 provide cover fire and keeps the enemies heads down. If smoke is available, it either cuts LOS between my advancing units and the enemy or cuts the area off a section of the line.

[The Purist]

What was the command given to the Russian units described above?
It it was Move, or Run, and they get fired apon, the effect can be bad - but if it was Advance, or Move to Contact, its a lot better.

'Move to Contact',...and I had two Maxim teams spraying the area where the enemy MG was previously spotted (but was currently hidden). He pops up, lets off a burst or three or four, breaks/routs two or three teams, gets surpressed himself, then vanishes from sight. No worries now, though, he is about to be overrunn by a trio of T-34/85s

The little bastard is going to be track grease.

[KG_AirborneBob]

Which is true to life: Unsupported Infanrty will not be as effective unless there is a HVY wpns sec or Armor to support them. Hope the tanks enjoy their lunch!! :devil:

[Cougar_DK]

Good 'eh,

Gonzo has been kind enough to give me a training game in CMBB, Sep 44 and all that, and he has put up with my whining quite patiently. I have noticed that my infantry (regular and veteran riflemen, Red Army) tend to 'break', or 'panic' or 'rout' after a single burst of MG fire even if they have suffered minimal (one) or even no casualties. I have not noticed the same thing in BO or AK (I'm sure others involved in the 'wadi' battle will concure), they may 'pin' or 'take cover' but will usually dash for cover or run through the fire to a safe spot.

Am I suffering from some bad luck or are the PBIs in Russia just a little more skittish? :confused:

I've seen the same in nearly all my games against Palentir. If you move them great distances and they are hit in the open, they flee.

[ER_Chaser]

after all, why is it a surprise that some kid got fired at by MGs and then got scared and tried to run away from the bullets?
If you are not satisfied with that fact, why not go there and confront the bullets tall and fast by yourself ? :D

[Lurker]

Easy to say from behind a keyboard ER. :) But I don't think we were comparing this to actual RL as much as to the other two games.

I once heard one BB player complain when an entire plt broke while dashing across a small opening between two woods masses, from an MG42 600 mtrs away. IMO that's either fantastic gunnery or pretty wimpy troops (they were all regs I believe). I could understand some of them pinning, or even panicking, but to all break?? (And no, I wouldn't want to try that myself thank you! :eek: )
Apparently the amount of distance covered isn't the deciding factor in this situation.

When one is used to playing BO, this kind of inf reaction comes as a shock.

By the way ER, how do you avoid this trouble with BB inf? Do you select crack units, or keep them hidden most of the game? :cheeky:

[Tripps]

after all, why is it a surprise that some kid got fired at by MGs and then got scared and tried to run away from the bullets?
If you are not satisfied with that fact, why not go there and confront the bullets tall and fast by yourself ? :D

Thats not entirely it ER - the issue is a platoon of guys has been told to move forward and expect contact/fire - these are regular soldiers, having been in combat before and knowing what to expect.
An MG opens up from a few hundred meters away - and all they panic and flee. Just doesnt sound right? I can expect hitting the deck, and then getting to better cover, but for regular troops to just crap themselves and run away at the first sign - if that was the case there wouldnt ever have been any wars now would there :)

The fattest soldiers would win, because they couldnt get away faster :cheeky:

[ER_Chaser]

oops... apparently I poked into some sort of nest .... pretty bad ones :D

Well, I said, that is probably I did not play the other two games, I took it for granted that whatever the inf. behave like in BB is the way it is. ... apparently, you guys were ... spoiled ... or ... I mean, trained (:D ) in the other two better systems :) (Just kidding .. ;0 ) ..

To me, it certainly happens once in a while like that. But it never bothered me. To answer Lurker's problem, I never use higher exp. troops than regular. (except for snipers) It is a waste of money. The point is that usually my Russian infanty can form some sort ... formidable enough waves toward the enemy that the enemy would flee (be it MG gunner or TIger tanks :D .. .. of course, there are occasional exceptions, usually not tho) ... and mine would be automatically fine ,since no one is firing at them at all. That is how I deal with it. If I do not have this kind of muscle, I won't advance in whole formations.

[Lurker]

I never use higher exp. troops than regular. (except for snipers) It is a waste of money. :)
That again depends on the game. In BO I agree that it not worth the extra cost for higher exp formations, unless you want a co of crack to go along with your reg battalions. Crack hold up noticeably better, but I've beaten opponents with my regs against large doses of elite and crack. Not easy, but do-able.

In AK I find a noticeable difference between the exp classes. I'm playing a 5k AK battle (infantry heavy with heavy woods) at another club and I elected Brit rifle regs. I think my opponent opted for at least crack, as his units may pin under very heavy fire but just as quickly bounce back as if nothing happened. Meanwhile my regulars are pinning and panicking quite quickly. Also the regs tend to have a large (annoying :mad: ) number of greenies thrown in that are almost entirely useless, except maybe for HS recon.

I haven't played much BB so I'm not too familiar with the class distinction there.

[ER_Chaser]

The reason behind my dislike of higher exp. troops: my style of playing is the major factor.

I agree, with other styles, it may make sense to have higher quality troops.

[Ratzki]

I usually do not have many problems advancing infantry in BB. The big thing is to go slow and do not continue to move into increasing and/or accurate fire. It does depend on what is firing at you and the range of the firing unit, but generally speaking, if the squad gets into the SHAKEN status, I just stop moving for a turn.