What's the status of the Lord of the Rings conversion?

[Don Maddox]

I haven’t decided what I’ll do with Gollum, but most of the characters in the Fellowship will carry the same unit icon as their military counterpart. At least in that way the opposition will not immediately know whether they have found Frodo, or just stumbled upon some misguided hobbit infantry. I also intend to use Guerrilla units for the Fellowship characters. As guerrilla units the Fellowship characters should be move away from danger without an engagement penalty. Also, guerrilla units are very difficult to find so they should help the Fellowship player at sneaking around.

I’m wide open for suggestions.

In the mean time, I have completed a demo of the LotR campaign game. The package includes the scenario, the modified exe file and a pile of graphics files. Should note that this is only a demo model and not a true test scenario . . . it’s all just for fun. I’ll send a copy to anyone interested.

Regards, RhinoBones


What's the current status?

[RhinoBones]

The current status is that the map and army counters are basically finished. I’m currently working on the design (graphics and capabilities) of the individual characters. The event editor is next.

As I mentioned in the earlier post, I do have a playable demo available for anyone interested in seeing how the game is developing. Since the zip file is approximately 680k I prefer not to provide it as an attachment and take up space on this server. I am hoping that a few people will take a look at the demo and provide some feedback. From the earlier mail received it is obvious that there are quite a few people following this forum who have substantially more knowledge about LotR than I.

Regards, RhinoBones

[BioHazard]

Hey that's great !
One of my pet project, and in fact the main reason for trying to hack ACOW...

Here is a few links that can help :

http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/index2.html
lots of maps of middle-earth

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
encyclopedia of Arda. Lots of maps, names, and "historical" data

http://downloads.merp.com/
pdf files of ICE modules for data

http://63.249.237.140/parma_endorion.pdf
parma endorion pdf book, on the lands and peoples of Middle Earth. Good chapter on Orcs....

http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/tolkien
Suite101 topic by the author of the previous link. Lots of topics, some of them military.

http://games.pbem-portal.com/war/me2strategy/old/distances.txt
a distance/time travel table from some game on Middle-Earth. Dunno if it is good but could help fine tune armies movement rates.

http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/se/~luv20009/MiddleEarthintro.html
Middle-Earth armies for DBA. I don't understand anything about their Wb(X) stuff but the design notes are interressing.

http://matrix.dumpshock.com/tzeentch/Tolkien/rules.htm
rules, map and games aids from the original SPI game (if you don't have them all).

Hope this help a bit...

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[RhinoBones]

Originally posted by BioHazard
Hey that's great !
One of my pet project, and in fact the main reason for trying to hack ACOW...

Here is a few links that can help
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Thanks for the links. I spent a bit a time this afternoon looking through the Encyclopedia of Arda . . . just loaded with interesting stuff. I’ll have to force myself to leave the encyclopedia and look through the other sites. For references I have been using the original SPI game (map, graphics, army dispositions) and the Tolkien Atlas Home Page located at:

http://members.tripod.com/john.ohara/

Actually, it is only because of your editor that this little project is possible. Between the editor and the a common utility for bit map graphics, that’s all that is needed to build a Middle-Earth. If you like, I will send you the demo file and you can see how I’ve used the Bio Editor to mutilate the data file.

As for progress, the military portion is basically finished but I’ve become a little bogged down in making the icon graphics for the individual characters.

Regards, Stevo

[BioHazard]

Originally posted by Stevo
If you like, I will send you the demo file and you can see how I’ve used the Bio Editor to mutilate the data file.
Ah yes, I would be interressed.
You can use the BioEd to create 'Aragorn Hit points ' "squads" for exemple for the base fighting capabilities and have also 'Anduril' "squads" whose replacement rate can be controlled by events, etc to simulate special rules.
You can also change the names of terrains, so that 'heavy urban city ruins' become 'special fortifications' (Minas Tirith/ Ortanc /Barad-Dur walls) as the combat effect in the game should be similar (check that is doesn't affect supply however...), etc.

On a totally off-topic (for ACOW) note, the trailer for the Two Towers movie had just been released. According to rumors, the battle for Helm Deep will be 55 minutes long, and, from the trailer, it is going to blow up Excalibur and BraveHearth battle scenes...

[RhinoBones]

Originally posted by BioHazard

You can use the BioEd to create 'Aragorn Hit points ' "squads" for exemple for the base fighting capabilities and have also 'Anduril' "squads" whose replacement rate can be controlled by events, etc to simulate special rules.
You can also change the names of terrains, so that 'heavy urban city ruins' become 'special fortifications' (Minas Tirith/ Ortanc /Barad-Dur walls) as the combat effect in the game should be similar (check that is doesn't affect supply however...), etc.


I hadn’t thought of making Aragorn (and all of the other major characters) anything other than just a single, powerful character/unit. He might be as powerful as perhaps 20 Gondor infantry, and have command, supply and armor attributes, but he would never the less still be a single character.

A character such as Gandalf the White might be as powerful as a hundred infantry and possess smoke and ranged weapons (maybe nukes too?). But he too would be a single character. Lots of possibilities . . . this will take some thought and a bunch of play testing. Good suggestions such as yours are a big help toward this effort.

I'll be sending you the demo zip file via e-mail.

Regards, RhinoBones

[BioHazard]

Originally posted by Stevo
I hadn’t thought of making Aragorn (and all of the other major characters) anything other than just a single, powerful character/unit. He might be as powerful as perhaps 20 Gondor infantry, and have command, supply and armor attributes, but he would never the less still be a single character.

Having caharacters made of severals squad allow them to be "wounded" and then "recover" in battle. And since we are allowed 24 weapons slots, it allow to add fine tuned capacity according to the event editor by playing on replacement rates, which sould come handy for all the specials rules with magical items and so.

Also I'm not sure that a unit with a single squad would not evaporate due to movement. I think that there an attrition of units just by movements (lost squad goes to the replacement pool). That need some testing investigation.

And remember that if characters like Aragorn may be physically strong, their main effect on battle is Morale and Wisdom, at last in the books (I think Aragorn rally the Rohirim 3 times at Helm Deep). So they may rank up more than just a few Gondorians squads in the end in game term, since morale isn't really modeled in ACOW.

Anyway, all that will be things to play with in beta tests. Continue the good work !


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[Major Banned]

Originally posted by BioHazard


Having caharacters made of severals squad allow them to be "wounded" and then "recover" in battle. And since we are allowed 24 weapons slots, it allow to add fine tuned capacity according to the event editor by playing on replacement rates, which sould come handy for all the specials rules with magical items and so.

Also I'm not sure that a unit with a single squad would not evaporate due to movement. I think that there an attrition of units just by movements (lost squad goes to the replacement pool). That need some testing investigation.

And remember that if characters like Aragorn may be physically strong, their main effect on battle is Morale and Wisdom, at last in the books (I think Aragorn rally the Rohirim 3 times at Helm Deep). So they may rank up more than just a few Gondorians squads in the end in game term, since morale isn't really modeled in ACOW.

Anyway, all that will be things to play with in beta tests. Continue the good work !


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Didn't Eomer actually have more of an effect on the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep than Aragorn? At that point, if I remember, relations between the Rohirrim and the Dunedain were strained at that point as Aragorn, Gimli, and Legalos were taken prisoner by the Rohirrim during the search for the Orcs that had taken Perigrin and Meriadoc prisoner.
Also wouldn't the Ents be more powerful than Gandalf. Gandalf and Shadowfax would have much greater movement rate, but the Ents would have greater offensive and defensive capabilities, IMHO.

[BioHazard]

Originally posted by DonShafer

Didn't Eomer actually have more of an effect on the Rohirrim at Helm's Deep than Aragorn? At that point, if I remember, relations between the Rohirrim and the Dunedain were strained at that point as Aragorn, Gimli, and Legalos were taken prisoner by the Rohirrim during the search for the Orcs that had taken Perigrin and Meriadoc prisoner.
He let them go however. Anyway, that's agood remark but Eomer effect should be somewhat limited to the Rohirim ( limited support ?) while Aragorn is more widespread (Force support ?).

Originally posted by DonShafer

Also wouldn't the Ents be more powerful than Gandalf. Gandalf and Shadowfax would have much greater movement rate, but the Ents would have greater offensive and defensive capabilities, IMHO.
Yes, but the Ents limited their operations to Helm Deep, the Isengard and Rohan. There should be some house rules or some kind of limit for that (a slower mouvement rate, no cooperation ?).

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[Don Maddox]

I saw a ten minute behind the scenes on The Two Towers and it looks like it could be even better than the Fellowship of the Ring. They did a truly amazing job on the first movie. This is going to be a classic series on par with Star Wars and people will be watching it 30 years from now (or longer).

[General Staff]

I'm not sure a comparison with Star Wars does it justice. The author trolled through (sorry about the pun) almost all the mythology (not to mention linguistics) of northern Europe and came up with something that I think exquisitely captures the essence of the common thread(s) that run(s) through it all.

[RhinoBones]

Originally posted by Maddog
I saw a ten minute behind the scenes on The Two Towers and it looks like it could be even better than the Fellowship of the Ring . . . This is going to be a classic series on par with Star Wars and people will be watching it 30 years from now . . .

I wish the movie Dune had been done even half as well as the Fellowship. But maybe, just maybe, someday Isaac Asimov’s Foundation Trilogy will be made in to a series equaling the LotR. Now that would big time Sci-Fi. But enough of the off topic stuff.

The LotR map is at the 95% stage where it is being tweaked as the formations are placed. The formations are about 30% complete and placed. The event manager is, however, only in the development stage. Notes on paper and some flow diagrams.

Ents were mentioned in an earlier post. I had not planned to enter then into the game, but there seems to be an interest. Would like to hear ideas about the characteristics they might have and what type of event might call them to action.

I have come to the conclusion that this campaign will require three versions. The PBM and a version for each of the solitaire games. I think the building of a realistic/entertaining “Nazgûl searching for Frodo” sequence will be the driver behind the need for custom PBM and solitaire versions.

I have also been looking through the LotR encyclopedia and atlas sites, and see strong possibilities for companion games based on the 1st and 2nd Age histories. Of course this is way premature to be thinking ahead, but there are real possibilities. Maybe someone else might want to build build these campaigns based on the materials already produced.

Regards, RhinoBones

[BioHazard]

Originally posted by Stevo
Ents were mentioned in an earlier post. I had not planned to enter then into the game, but there seems to be an interest. Would like to hear ideas about the characteristics they might have and what type of event might call them to action.
Good question. Ents are poor sorldiers once the word goes out. Had the Mordor knew it would face them, no doubt they would ahve made provisions of arrow with combustibles materials. A few volley of burning arrows and they are in big trouble.

Historically (ahem...) their value was that the Orcs thought they were a normal forest and entered them, to be not see again. Seems like a monster ambush strategy, so I would make the Ents guerrilla units. Hard to detect, and they have a bonus when they attack or defend from an enemy held hex, which would nicely model Ent sneaking on Mordor troops and taking them out before they understood what is going on.

Other points suggested :
- very good recon values : scout would go largely unoticed. Plus Fangorn seems to have good intel reports on what was going in general. Talking to birds and other animals ?

- engeener, major fording, police traffic, transport : they sure are very helpfull to make some space or move big stuff around...

- internal support only : they seems to have carried their own fight independantly. Plus that prevent missuse by players.

- bombardement capability with a very high 'shell weight' value, but very low 'bombardement' value : the reason is that Ent don't have long range weapons, but they are very effective at destroying fortifications. In ACOW, the shell weight can reduce fortification level. Range 1 hex, so that they can attack a fortification on the next hex.

- slow movement : they move OK, but they take some time to decide where to go...
Plus that will confine them in the Rohan general area, avoiding that players use them to zap around.

- very good formation supply : well, they just need some water to survive...

- high attack and defense values : they hurt a lot in fight...


Originally posted by Stevo

I have also been looking through the LotR encyclopedia and atlas sites, and see strong possibilities for companion games based on the 1st and 2nd Age histories. Of course this is way premature to be thinking ahead, but there are real possibilities. Maybe someone else might want to build build these campaigns based on the materials already produced.
Ah, the fall of Angmar....

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