Artillery and Air Defense Ranges

[Double Deuce]

One thing we need to do is publish a list of Ranges for Artillery and Mortars in terms of Operational Hexes (for possible assignment as Off-Board Artillery). For starters I will pull info from WinSPMBT.

NATO

M106A1 (6,840m) = 3 hexes
M109A2(1) (18,000m) = 9 hexes
120mm Mortars (6,350m) = 3 hexes
M110A2 (28,800m) = 14 hexes
M109G (14,600m) = 7 hexes
M125A1 (4,790m) = 2 hexes
M109A2/A3(1) (18,000m) = 9 hexes

M48 Chaparral (4,800m) = 2 hexes
M163 Vulcan (2,600m) = 1 hexes
Roland (6,000m) = 3 hexes
Gepard A1 (4,000m) = 2 hexes
I-Hawk (40,000m) = 20 hexes

(1) RAP (23,500) + 11 hexes
(2) based on visibility

WARSAW PACT

82mm Mortar Sec (3,700m) = 2 hexes
2-120mm Mortars (8,100m) = 4 hexes
2S1 Gvozdika (15,300m) = 7 hexes
2S3 Akatsiya (17,400m) = 8 hexes
ZSU-23-4 Shilka (3,000m) = 2 hexes
SA9 Gaskin (4,200m) = 3 hexes
M1976 (15,300m) = 7 hexes
ZSU-23-4 Szylka (3,000m) = 2 hexes
ZSU-57-2 (4,000m) = 2 hexes
M43 120mm mortar (5,700m) = 2 hexes
BM-21 Grad (15,000m) = 7 hexes
122mm Field Gun(3) (15,300m) = 7 hexes

SA-6 Gainful (24,000m) = 12 hexes
SA-4 Ganef (50,000m) = 25 hexes

(2)based on visibility
(3)RAP (21,900) = 10 hexes
(4)RAP (24,400) = 12 hexes
(5)Long range rockets (20,380) = 10 HEXES (Not listed under Hungarian OOB :p )(No reduction in warhead size)

[Shortreengage]

I only see the 2s1 and 2s3 at the moment.

Did you want us to come up with the data? No problem.

How big is an operational hex? 2k?

[Shortreengage]

What about RAP?

[Double Deuce]

I only see the 2s1 and 2s3 at the moment.

Did you want us to come up with the data? No problem.No I started the thread so I can enter the data as I get time and keep it together where I can find it later. :D

Also so the players can see it and get an idea of ranges for planning, etc.

How big is an operational hex? 2k?Yes, 2km.

[Double Deuce]

What about RAP?Not sure what you mean. Not familiar with that anacronym. :cry:

[Shortreengage]

Rocket Assisted Projectiles. More range, less bang.

[Double Deuce]

Nevermind. :)

[Pannonicus]

Some WP max. ranges:

KRUG: 50,000 m
KUB: 23,000 m
Strela-1: 8,000 m
Strela-10: 5,000 m
ZSU-57-2: 4,000 m
ZSU-23-4: 2,500 m

[Pannonicus]

Continue...

BM-21: 20,380 m (with advanced rocket: 30,000 m)
2A36 (M1976): 27,000 m (with Soviet RAP: 40,000m)
D-30 (122m howitzer): 21,900 m
M43 mortar: 5,700 m
82mm mortar: 4,900 m

[Pannonicus]

Ok, some help will be needed. :whist: If someone can look up the ranges (hexes) in MobHack and post them in this thread that would be great.

Ooops... I looked at REAL LIFE, not mobhack - OOBs still contain, anyway, all kinds of weird information. I better trust my books...

[desh44]

Here you go....the numbers on the end are the hexes from the game data

NATO

M106A1 (06,800m) = 3 hexes 136/15
M109A2 (10,700m) = 5 hexes 214
120mm Mortars (07,200m) = 3 hexes 144/4
M110A2 (11,250m) = 5 hexes 225
M109G (10,250m) = 5 hexes 205
M125A1 (04,600m) = 2 hexes 92/2
M109A2/A3 (11,000m) = 5 hexes 220

M48 Chaparral (04,000m) = 2 hexes 80/10
M163 Vulcan (03,000m) = 2 hexes 60
Roland (06,000m) = 3 hexes 120/14
Gepard A1 (04,000m) = 2 hexes 80


WARSAW PACT

82mm Mortar Sec (03,700m) = 2 hexes 74/2
2-120mm Mortars (08,100m) = 4 hexes 162/9
2S1 Gvozdika (10,250m) = 5 hexes 205
2S3 Akatsiya (10,750m) = 5 hexes 215
ZSU-23-4 Shilka (02,500m) = 1 hexes 50
SA9 Gaskin (07,000m) = 3 hexes 140/16
M1976 (10,705m) = 5 hexes 215
ZSU-23-4 Szylka (02,500m) = 1 hexes 50
ZSU-57-2 (04,000m) = 1 hexes 80
M43 120mm mortar (05,700m) = 2 hexes 114/3
BM-21 Grad (10,550m) = x hexes 211
122mm Field Gun (11,100m) = 5 hexes 220 for D30
(10,100m)= 5 hexes 202 for M30
SA-6 Gainful (12,750m) = 6 hexes 255/80
SA-4 Ganef (12,750m) = 6 hexes 255/18

hope this helps
:)

I rounded down the large hex numbers
Tom D

[Temujin]

WP has some long ranged SAM's there, obviously, we should get more of them to counter that.

[Pannonicus]

WP has some long ranged SAM's there, obviously, we should get more of them to counter that.

Why do you always struggle to escape reality? :devil:

If you get HAWK, we have to take into account how long it takes to deploy/mount them. Therefore their operational manouverability will be severely limited.

IMHO, the ranges presented in MobHack are not realistic. KRUG has twice the range of KUB, it is well known. In MoBHack, they have never taken into account operative level. On tactical level, it does not matter, big is big, no matter exactly how.

So goes the same for artillery, range of M1976 is just plain ridiculous. (BTW, NATO would get some good arty ranges as well IRL.)

[Temujin]

If you get HAWK, we have to take into account how long it takes to deploy/mount them. Therefore their operational manouverability will be severely limited.



I said 'more of them' we havn't any Hawk's so we can't get more, i was talking about our fine West German specimans that are adequetly mobile :devil:

Seriously though, yeah i noticed a big difference in the ranges you posted and the ranges in the game. If i didn't know any better i'd swear something fishy was going on, but i know you would never try such a thing ;) :laugh:

[Shortreengage]

That data is going to be corrupt on the operational level. Remember that for many guns and howizers the range rating is a relationship between this gun and that. IE gun A has 205 because it's RL range is greater than gun B 204 but less than gun C 206.
Am I making sense? I think that it is in the game guide.

For operationl ranges we're going to have to do some old fashion research. We will need one sheet of music to work from. I have Isby's "Weapons and Tactics of the Soviet Army" and some old DIA stuff but we probobly should use something like FAS.org as a standard. That way we won't quible about what's printed in some Hungarian propaganda rag :D Yeah, I'm talking about you lawyer-boy :whist: I'll take a look at FAS.org. They should'nt be slanted to one side or the other.

[Pannonicus]

OK, look at FAS.org! I accept it as a reference. You will find similar details. I also checked some other websites, they more or less give the same data I gave.

[Double Deuce]

The ranges in SPMBT are abstracted for the most part I would think. No point in the developers speding countless hours researching facts/data that is in reality outside the scope of the game.

For the sake of arguement we WILL use the fas.org website as reference.

[Shortreengage]

OK, look at FAS.org! I accept it as a reference. You will find similar details. I also checked some other websites, they more or less give the same data I gave.
I generally don't have a problem with your data. I think you had the data for a D-30 RAP. I had something more like 15.000m That would give 300 MBT hexes and 7 operational hexes(rounded down)

The problem with RAP is that it is a less powerful round. We would have to mobhack it and I don't think that is something we want to start.

[Double Deuce]

I have updated the OOB/1st post with the MobHack data desh provided. If someone has time can they compare this with the data on fas.org to see if there are any very different #'s. If they are within a couple thousand meters or so the MobHack #'s will probbaly do.. Then, once the patch is release we will do another quick check for changes.

[Shortreengage]

Here is the ARTY/ADA rework:



NATO

M106A1 (6,840m) = 3 hexes
M109A2(1) (18,000) = 9 hexes
120mm Mortars (6,350m) = 3 hexes
M110A2 (28,800m) = 14 hexes
M109G (14,600m) = 7 hexes
M125A1 (4,790m) = 2 hexes
M109A2/A3(1) (18,000m) = 9 hexes

M48 Chaparral(2) (4,800m) = 2 hexes
M163 Vulcan (2,600m) = 1 hexes
Roland (6,000m) = 3 hexes
Gepard A1 (4,000m) = 2 hexes
I-Hawk (40,000) = 20 hexes

(1) RAP (23,500) + 11 hexes
(2) based on visibility

WARSAW PACT

82mm Mortar Sec (3,700m) = 2 hexes
2-120mm Mortars (8,100m) = 4 hexes
2S1 Gvozdika(3) (15,300m) = 7 hexes
2S3 Akatsiya(4) (17,400m) = 8 hexes
ZSU-23-4 Shilka (3,000m) = 1 hexes
SA9 Gaskin (4,200m) = 2 hexes
M1974(3) (15,300m) = 7 hexes
ZSU-23-4 Szylka (3,000m) = 1 hexes
ZSU-57-2(2) (4,000m) = 2 hexes
M43 120mm mortar (5,700m) = 2 hexes
BM-21 Grad(5) (15,000m) = 7 hexes
122mm Field Gun D-30 (3)(15,300m) = 7 hexes

SA-6 Gainful (24,000m) = 12 hexes
SA-4 Ganef (50,000m) = 25 hexes :eek:

(2)based on visibility
(3)RAP (21,900) = 10 hexes
(4)RAP (24,400) = 12 hexes
(5)Long range rockets (20,380) = 10 HEXES (Not listed under Hungarian OOB :p )(No reduction in warhead size)

All data pulled from FAS.org except mortar data unavailable. Then Mobhack

All ranges rounded down to lower value. May need relook.

RAPs usual lose 30% +/- of warhead for rocket. WINMBT has RAP for some nations without penalty for rocket motor.

All ranges for normal HE-FRAG projectiles.

[Double Deuce]

I have updated the OOB/1st post with the fas.org data shortreengage provided. We should be set as far as Artilliery ranges now.

[Pannonicus]

In some cases it is shorther than I knew, but as I said, I accept FAS.org :cry:

[Double Deuce]

I'm bumping this so the data is easier to find. :smoke: