PDA

View Full Version : Euro /us Tournament Just For Fun


jlbetin
08 Aug 03, 07:58
Mantis Heat Don

Do you think possible to make a tournament between European players an US/Canadian players ??

It could be fun.

Stupid idea or interested one.

TOAW players I wait for your comments

I'm ready to imply myself deeply in managing it

Der WanderPlayer

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 09:10
European, let's fight against the American imperialist...

Hey, stop I work for an American company, so come on Americans let's fight against the European conquerors...

Well, Jamiam will be on the American side, so I must be on the European side.

Jlbetin, I am waiting for your order! (Hungarians was always on the looser side
:D

ER_Chaser
08 Aug 03, 09:19
hmm.... then where do I fit? I am Chinese :D

Menschenfresser
08 Aug 03, 09:37
I'm married to an Austrian so...

You'll find me either smoking dope in Canada or profiteering in nearby Slovenia...

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 09:57
Originally posted by ER_Chaser
hmm.... then where do I fit? I am Chinese :D

:D

Maybe it can be war between Europe, America, Australia, Africa, Asia, (Antarctic ?? Is someone from the Antartic)

Definition You are from E/A/A/A/A/A if you spend more time here than elsewhere from 1st of January 2003 to 1st of August.

If you are living in a boat at the Ocean, or you are a spaceman, or UFO alien, or living in a baloon, or Alice in wonderland, or you are mantis :D , please let us know (we can open an "other" group for them) .

Chuck?
08 Aug 03, 10:01
I think the US/Canadian side would clean up by looking at the ladder ratings. We've got Mantis, MikeJ, Heat, and Jamiam. You've got ... nobody! Actually, the Aussie/Zealanders would even crush the European side.

Kovi
08 Aug 03, 10:07
When I will have my TOAW learning "course" finished (and back from holiday), I will join the European team. :)

A druszamnak: hajra magyarok! :)

Menschenfresser
08 Aug 03, 10:12
But remember Chuck...Euro ladder points are worth more than US ladder points, which are worth more than Canadian ladder points.

So the situation is probably not so bad.

And I suspect that some of us are submitting Turkish ladder points.

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 10:12
Originally posted by Kovi
When I will have my TOAW learning "course" finished (and back from holiday), I will join the European team. :)

A druszamnak: hajra magyarok! :)

Hey, a strong Hungarian group is under construction :D

Szia, tök jó lassan áttérhetünk a magyarra. Merre laksz? Ahogy nézegetem, lassan 8-10 toaw-ost tudok találni kishazánkban. Nézz be az index.hu-n a operational... fórumra is, persze ez itt az igazi. Üdv,
Némedi László

Secadegas
08 Aug 03, 10:19
Originally posted by Chuck
I think the US/Canadian side would clean up by looking at the ladder ratings. We've got Mantis, MikeJ, Heat, and Jamiam. You've got ... nobody! Actually, the Aussie/Zealanders would even crush the European side.

Sorry but General Staff (irish) is better rated than Jamiam and Paulus (polish), Airluca (italian) and Bruce (uk) are also better rated than Heat

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 10:21
By my definition Don is in the Asian group? :eek:

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 10:25
Originally posted by Secadegas


Sorry but General Staff (irish) is better rated than Jamiam and Paulus (polish), Airluca (italian) and Bruce (uk) are also better rated than Heat

Is GS Irish? Yuheee...
(10 years ago I was an irish dance teacher in Hungary, one-two-threes, sevens, troublejig, light jig... )

I like this idea: fight between continents (of course the eu/us fight will be the heaviest).

ER_Chaser
08 Aug 03, 10:28
Originally posted by laszlo.nemedi
By my definition Don is in the Asian group? :eek:

hehe.. that is cool, I got a most powerful ally that way :D ... oops, wait, then I am not Asian any more by your definition... oh.. poor Don he'd be alone :D

Chuck made some point, ACOW is an American game, of course geographically the Americans will have a big advantage. Maybe a match like Americans vs. Non-Americans (ROW) will do? :D That way, we got some strong pacific guys like Richard, etc... oops.. wait, I am confused again.. which side am I?...
:confused: :alien:

Mantis
08 Aug 03, 10:32
If you guys are big on this, we can look into a North America vs. the World split when it comes time for the team tourney. It wouldn't take alot to form our teams on that line of thought, instead of just having a general sign in.

Chuck?
08 Aug 03, 10:37
Originally posted by Secadegas


Sorry but General Staff (irish) is better rated than Jamiam and Paulus (polish), Airluca (italian) and Bruce (uk) are also better rated than Heat

Technically several other American players are better rated than HEAT by experience so we've got them too! Didn't know General Staff was Irish. That gives you guys one toy to play with anyway! :D

Mantis
08 Aug 03, 10:41
Doesn't he live in the US, tho? I mean, if they go by ancestry, there'll only be a couple of Native Americans on the NA team, and no one else!! I'm half German, and half Brit, but 100% Canadian, baby!

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 10:42
Originally posted by ER_Chaser


hehe.. that is cool, I got a most powerful ally that way :D ... oops, wait, then I am not Asian any more by your definition... oh.. poor Don he'd be alone :D

Chuck made some point, ACOW is an American game, of course geographically the Americans will have a big advantage. Maybe a match like Americans vs. Non-Americans (ROW) will do? :D That way, we got some strong pacific guys like Richard, etc... oops.. wait, I am confused again.. which side am I?...
:confused: :alien:

As I see the big problem is the definition (of course we can let it self-decided but it is too simple, and everybody want to be in the winning group (of course in the EU group).)

I like the US/non-US fight too. ER_Chaser: if you have more picture of ... when I beg to be our side :D :hail:

(fight between male/female?, much easier to decide (a nude picture from the females is enough to decide :D

ER_Chaser
08 Aug 03, 10:50
Originally posted by Mantis
If you guys are big on this, we can look into a North America vs. the World split when it comes time for the team tourney. It wouldn't take alot to form our teams on that line of thought, instead of just having a general sign in.

no no no ... not NA vs. ROW.... Just US vs. ROW .. hehe... that way, probably it is more even ;p

Kraut2
08 Aug 03, 10:52
If I remember correctly there's a modern scenario, Europe invades USA :D

I don't know how big it was or how balanced but that would do ;)

By the way, I'm from germany so I need a scenario were I can conquer the world and become supreme leader ! :D

Chuck?
08 Aug 03, 10:53
Originally posted by ER_Chaser


no no no ... not NA vs. ROW.... Just US vs. ROW .. hehe... that way, probably it is more even ;p


No we get Canada and Mexico too. Remember NAFTA? They are ours now.

:flag:

Actually we need Mantis and MikeJ for starters so this is the real reason that Canada must be on our side. Could care less about Mexico. :cheeky:

ER_Chaser
08 Aug 03, 10:56
Originally posted by laszlo.nemedi


As I see the big problem is the definition (of course we can let it self-decided but it is too simple, and everybody want to be in the winning group (of course in the EU group).)

I like the US/non-US fight too. ER_Chaser: if you have more picture of ... when I beg to be our side :D :hail:

(fight between male/female?, much easier to decide (a nude picture from the females is enough to decide :D

hehe.. male vs. female? .... well, in such a monk temple here, the result will be so simple: the female will be the queen, and all the rest pawns.... :p


Ah.. I just figured out which side I should take :

If it is NA vs. ROW, then surely by ll's standard, I am in the NA team, since I did not leave a single step out of continent during then.

If it is US vs. ROW, then probably I can go with ROW ... because ... er.. I am Chinese... (different from Shane: I am not born here, and I am Chinese citizen.) ....

The bottomline of this strategy seems to be .... er...
side with the (Evil) canadians :D

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 11:03
Originally posted by Chuck



No we get Canada and Mexico too. Remember NAFTA? They are ours now.

:flag:

Actually we need Mantis and MikeJ for starters so this is the real reason that Canada must be on our side. Could care less about Mexico. :cheeky:

Mantis don't let it, we recognize Canada as an independent, proud country... (that's Hungarian opinion, I don't know the Brit and French opinion :o

(I think you can get Mexico to strengthen you :p , but I don't know the Spanish (or Portugese) opinion....

Now I know how hard to achive aggrement in the EU Parlament

Secadegas
08 Aug 03, 11:03
Originally posted by Chuck



Actually we need Mantis and MikeJ for starters so this is the real reason that Canada must be on our side. :cheeky:

Really sad to see you so dependent on the canadians...

Menschenfresser
08 Aug 03, 11:14
Originally posted by Secadegas


Really sad to see you so dependent on the canadians...

Dependent on Canadians? Never!! Never, I tells ya!! I'm putting in a call to Rummy for a handful of reservists. And who knows...maybe we'll just pay some countries to fight for us.

When in Rome...etc.

Chuck?
08 Aug 03, 11:20
Originally posted by Secadegas


Really sad to see you so dependent on the canadians...

Someone has to prop us up and the Canadians are proud to do it!

Wolf
08 Aug 03, 11:39
I definitely like the idea of an intercontinental match, maybe someone shouls put up a poll with all the possible variations, I mean in the current political climate, should the UK side with EU or US? :cheeky:

laszlo.nemedi
08 Aug 03, 11:52
Originally posted by Wolf
I definitely like the idea of an intercontinental match, maybe someone shouls put up a poll with all the possible variations, I mean in the current political climate, should the UK side with EU or US? :cheeky:

I knew...

English laguage world against the non-English (Irish and Gael are not English as I know :eek: , OK OK I mentioned it only to get General Staff in my team... :rolleyes:

JMS
08 Aug 03, 12:00
You mean English-thinking world, of course...

Siberian HEAT
08 Aug 03, 12:26
My handle is Asian...can I play for the Russian team? :D

Chuck?
08 Aug 03, 12:44
Originally posted by Siberian HEAT
My handle is Asian...can I play for the Russian team? :D


Sure... if you move to Irkutsk. :p

JAMiAM
10 Aug 03, 15:22
Sorry but General Staff (irish) is better rated than Jamiam and Paulus (polish), Airluca (italian) and Bruce (uk) are also better rated than Heat

Paulus hasn't been seen (here, or any of the other ladders) since he was convicted and expelled from the Blitz ladder for cheating. Apparently he was hacking files. I wouldn't hold him up as a shining torch of European gaming ability, unless you want to get burnt... :gas:

Mantis
10 Aug 03, 15:26
It's the only way they can beat us North American types... :p

Tiberius
10 Aug 03, 15:33
No we get Canada and Mexico too. Remember NAFTA? They are ours now.

:flag:

Actually we need Mantis and MikeJ for starters so this is the real reason that Canada must be on our side. Could care less about Mexico. :cheeky:

What do we need them for? Kanuks are fereners anyway! U.S. vs. the rest!

Secadegas
10 Aug 03, 21:10
Paulus hasn't been seen (here, or any of the other ladders) since he was convicted and expelled from the Blitz ladder for cheating. Apparently he was hacking files. I wouldn't hold him up as a shining torch of European gaming ability, unless you want to get burnt... :gas:

:o I didn't know... i just noticed his raking on the ladder.

MikeJ
10 Aug 03, 22:40
I'm half German, and half Brit, but 100% Canadian, baby!

Do you ever feel conflicted watching WW1/2 documentaries? ;)


As for a Euro vs NA tourney, I think it'd be fun.

It might be a good place to play Fall Grau exclusively, as well, balance permitting. All the NA players would, of course, play Allies and all the Euros would play the evil, world-dominating, baby-eating Axis countries.

Of course, the forces of light and good (that would be us North Americans) would trounce the forces of darkness and evil (that's you Europeans). So we could just not play it, but say we did - and award all North American players free ladder points for the glorious victory which is inevitable.

Tiberius
11 Aug 03, 00:22
OK when you put it that way you Canucks are in! Viva la North America!
(any Mexicans or Central Americans are with us now.)

tigersqn
11 Aug 03, 01:16
Do you ever feel conflicted watching WW1/2 documentaries? ;)


As for a Euro vs NA tourney, I think it'd be fun.

It might be a good place to play Fall Grau exclusively, as well, balance permitting. All the NA players would, of course, play Allies and all the Euros would play the evil, world-dominating, baby-eating Axis countries.

Of course, the forces of light and good (that would be us North Americans) would trounce the forces of darkness and evil (that's you Europeans). So we could just not play it, but say we did - and award all North American players free ladder points for the glorious victory which is inevitable.
Hmmmm. Interesting idea.

laszlo.nemedi
11 Aug 03, 01:44
Do you ever feel conflicted watching WW1/2 documentaries? ;)


As for a Euro vs NA tourney, I think it'd be fun.

It might be a good place to play Fall Grau exclusively, as well, balance permitting. All the NA players would, of course, play Allies and all the Euros would play the evil, world-dominating, baby-eating Axis countries.

Of course, the forces of light and good (that would be us North Americans) would trounce the forces of darkness and evil (that's you Europeans). So we could just not play it, but say we did - and award all North American players free ladder points for the glorious victory which is inevitable.

Ehh, again, European idea, and the Americans get the profit ... better to: :drink:

Chuck?
11 Aug 03, 06:03
Paulus hasn't been seen (here, or any of the other ladders) since he was convicted and expelled from the Blitz ladder for cheating. Apparently he was hacking files.

The banner of the Eurocheats weakens at the fall of the mighty Paulus! Now we are down to Airluca and Bruce to carry General Staff's bags. When does the bookie start taking bets on this contest? :)

Secadegas
11 Aug 03, 07:54
Now we are down to Airluca and Bruce to carry General Staff's bags. When does the bookie start taking bets on this contest? :)

Rasmus (danish) climbing up... :clap:

laszlo.nemedi
11 Aug 03, 08:36
The banner of the Eurocheats weakens at the fall of the mighty Paulus! Now we are down to Airluca and Bruce to carry General Staff's bags. When does the bookie start taking bets on this contest? :)

Don't you know about our hidden talents, do you? E.g.: ...edit for security reason..., and ...edited for security reason..., and of course ...edited for security reason....
I think it is enough to secure our victory...

Bruce
11 Aug 03, 11:49
Ehhm... Will there be a Klingon team?

Mantis
11 Aug 03, 13:16
Do you ever feel conflicted watching WW1/2 documentaries? ;)

Nah. All it really means is I'm a two fisted beer drinker who's constantly at war with himself!!

jlbetin
11 Aug 03, 14:43
Gents,

It seems my idea interest some people, Don, Mantis, Heat, could it be possible to organize that ???

Der WanderInterestedIn
:thumup:

Kraut
11 Aug 03, 15:01
It might be a good place to play Fall Grau exclusively, as well, balance permitting. All the NA players would, of course, play Allies and all the Euros would play the evil, world-dominating, baby-eating Axis countries.

Sounds good, I always wanted to play Fall Grau to kick some US butts... bring it on! ;)

Mantis
11 Aug 03, 15:18
Gents,

It seems my idea interest some people, Don, Mantis, Heat, could it be possible to organize that ???

Der WanderInterestedIn
:thumup:

We've only just begun the War in the West tourney!

Yes, what you're proposing could likely be done. We could divide the teams up that way for the next tourney (as it will be a team format next time 'round); it's as good a method as any! (We'll trounce you Euro types, mind you! :p)

Mantis
11 Aug 03, 15:22
On a side note, after we finish up the WitW tourney, if interest is high, I've no problem in starting up a small Euro vs. NA Fall Grau single game tourney. If Jeremy had no objections. (And if the idea for this scenario was universal - was it just the teams idea people supported? Or was it the specific Fall Grau scenario as well?)

Otherwise, we could just save the idea about NA vs. Euro until the next tourney, and use it to bust us into teams.

You want me to work on it? Gimme feedback, gents! :cheeky:

Kraut
11 Aug 03, 16:17
You want me to work on it? Gimme feedback, gents! :cheeky:

Feedback!

ER_Chaser
12 Aug 03, 09:48
hehe... one idea is to make it a "multi-player single scenario" game ---- one single game! instead of a team battle on many same FG's ---- that way you may even out the skill levels more and make the result much more unpredictable and fun :) But it will be a very tricky job to lead the project (seriously looking into Mantis, the Evil's eyes) ---- Can you handle it? :devil:

Mantis
12 Aug 03, 13:02
I just finished my involvement with an 8 player game of a single Fall Grau scenario. Yes, it can be done. But it takes alot of work and dedication from all involved, or the project quickly falls apart. Go read the 8 player scenario thread.

laszlo.nemedi
12 Aug 03, 13:17
I am not recommend one game multiplayer.
But can be one scenario (multi game, multi player), and can be like in the chess: best against best and down to the worst against worst.
But I still thinking of it...

jlbetin
12 Aug 03, 18:22
To begin easily, we decide for a medium size scenario, and we play
People say look the European are weaker than the US, true and what's the problem. We play for fun, for pleasure to play together, this pseudo rivalty is just a pretext to play

And to learn! more we play better we improve even in loosing. I have learn a lot playing 2 Win Normandy with MikeJ, in French I told that I took a "Branlée", une déculotée, yes that's true. But now my oponents have trouble, because I've learned a max due to MikeJ advices

So lets go define a scenario and fight for fun


Der WanderPlayer

MikeJ
12 Aug 03, 19:58
Hmm. I don't know about anyone else, but all that stuff about baby-eating Axis countries and the forces of light and good crushing the forces of darkness and evil was just what passes for my sense of humor.

Chuck?
13 Aug 03, 07:57
Hmm. I don't know about anyone else, but all that stuff about baby-eating Axis countries and the forces of light and good crushing the forces of darkness and evil was just what passes for my sense of humor.

What?! :surprise:

MikeJ
13 Aug 03, 11:36
What?! :surprise:

Yes, yes I know. It's true. They don't actually eat babies over in Europe...

Though I hear they turn old people into soup to feed the poor.

Europe - innovatively implementing socialism since 1945!

Mantis
13 Aug 03, 12:39
Yes, yes I know. It's true. They don't actually eat babies over in Europe...

Though I hear they turn old people into soup to feed the poor.

Europe - innovatively implementing socialism since 1945!

Mike - I remember a couple years back they sent buddy from 'This Hour has 22 Minutes' down to the States to piss with the Yankees... He asked them their opinions on our practice of putting our old people out on ice floes to die, and managed to get a university prof and a senator (among many others) to sign a petition protesting our 'barbaric' actions... lol

MikeJ
13 Aug 03, 13:16
Mike - I remember a couple years back they sent buddy from 'This Hour has 22 Minutes' down to the States to piss with the Yankees... He asked them their opinions on our practice of putting our old people out on ice floes to die, and managed to get a university prof and a senator (among many others) to sign a petition protesting our 'barbaric' actions... lol

Lol. Never saw that one, but I saw Rick Mercer in plenty of others in that 'talking to americans' skit or whatever it is.

He got Bush to thank "Jean Poutine".

He convinced a senator or congressman that Canada was on a different clock (26 hour clock or something) and we were having a national debate on whether to switch to the 24 hour clock. Had a bunch of AMericans telling him that we should to make travel easier and so on heh.

He also managed to covince Jerry Springer that we have a national holiday for him up here.

Whole slew of them, just hilarious :).

ER_Chaser
13 Aug 03, 13:30
Lol. Never saw that one, but I saw Rick Mercer in plenty of others in that 'talking to americans' skit or whatever it is.

He got Bush to thank "Jean Poutine".

He convinced a senator or congressman that Canada was on a different clock (26 hour clock or something) and we were having a national debate on whether to switch to the 24 hour clock. Had a bunch of AMericans telling him that we should to make travel easier and so on heh.

He also managed to covince Jerry Springer that we have a national holiday for him up here.

Whole slew of them, just hilarious :).
hmm... since Rick seems to be particularly competent in "convincing" senators, and Jerry was also "convinced" by him at some point, it is very reasonable for me to believe that Jerry will make a good senator :devil:

Chuck?
13 Aug 03, 13:41
I hear they turn old people into soup to feed the poor.


I'm outraged! We all know the truth is that Europeans turn the poor into soup to feed the old people...

:violin:

Kraut
13 Aug 03, 14:07
I'm outraged! We all know the truth is that Europeans turn the poor into soup to feed the old people...

:violin:

No, actually we use the old to make some tasty crackers (called Soylent Green) and the rich eat them on parties. Hey, the relatives get a good price for their old, thats capilatisms, you red commie US-bastards, go to Uncle Stalin if you don't like it :devil: :devil:

Wolf
13 Aug 03, 19:18
OK - enough off topic ranting, it looks like a lot of people are up for a one off Europe -v- US challenge, so why don't we draw up the teams- it doesn't need to be a tourney format, just pair everybody off - 1pt for a draw, and three points for a win JlBetin captains Europe, and US pick a captain? How's about it?

Kraut
13 Aug 03, 19:26
Well, OK, but what scenario do we play ? It should be a reasonable balanced Euro vs US scenario IMHO, Fall Grau sounds good but I think the US has the advantage here ?
There is another US vs EU scenario called something like Invasion of Fortress Europe, hypothetical 1947 scenario were germany won the war in the east and is now awaiting the US invasion of europe. Don't have this scenario right now and can't tell how complex/balanced/fun it is so what else do we have ??

----< edit >----
here is the link to the above mentioned scenario: Invasion Of Nazi Europe - 1947 (http://www.wargamer.com/archive/scenario-redirect.asp?ID=2355)

Wolf
13 Aug 03, 19:35
Another scenario to consider is Invasion Amerika - very similar to Fall Grau and recently updated.

Kraut
13 Aug 03, 20:02
Another scenario to consider is Invasion Amerika - very similar to Fall Grau and recently updated.

did you mean: America Invaded ? A modern scenario were Europe invades the USA and Leopard II and T-90 slug it out with M1A2 ?
link (http://www.wargamer.com/archive/scenario-redirect.asp?ID=2604)

jlbetin
13 Aug 03, 20:07
did you mean: America Invaded ? A modern scenario were Europe invades the USA and Leopard II and T-90 slug it out with M1A2 ?
link (http://www.wargamer.com/archive/scenario-redirect.asp?ID=2604)



YEAHHHHHHHH, Slurp, to eat America like a piece of an apple pie or ein Appfel strüdel

I like this idea
Some Volunteers

Der WanderInvader A26 obviously :D

Kraut
14 Aug 03, 08:53
I had a deeper look at the 1947 - US invades Europe scenario and it seems to be to strong pro-Axis, they have almost twice the Infantry the US/UK fields, Arty almost equal, Axis has 43.000 tanks compared to US 29.000, the US/UK has a slight sea and air superiority. All units (axis and allies) start as untried, the all US/UK start at 70% proficiency and are therefore equally good as there german counterparts (expect for the german Pz units at 80%) but better than most Axis minors who are at 50-60%
There is very little information availabe (were are the US-supply points?) and the scenario briefing still reads Incomplete Scenario... not very encouraging.
There are also very few events making this scenario probably to straight forward with too little options the player can manipulate.

I also had a short look at Invasion America, a 1942 Axis invasion of the US, the scenario seems to be rich of events and offers different strategies (axis can activate Mexico or Japan or both as allies) but the reinforcements seems to be oddly low for such a large scale, full weeks/turn scenario. The axis get something like 110 Infantry/turn and 20 tanks/turn (thats all differen types of inf./tanks combined!)
As this scenario is similar to Fall Grau it's probably better to pick Fall Grau because that scenario was heavily playtested and improved over the last year.

So, hmm, if nobody else comes up with ideas we could choose between WW2 invasion of the USA (Fall Grau) and 2003 invasion of the USA (America Invaded) which is a shorter (40 turns) scenario with a smaller map than all the other scenarios mentioned. But could be fun nevertheless, has anybody played it yet and can give us some feadback?

jlbetin
14 Aug 03, 08:59
I always played US invaded against PO never against Human opponent

But it is true that both proposed scenarios have my interest in.

So Gents a poll ? I prepare a thread

Der Wanderer

LaPalice
14 Aug 03, 10:33
I'm sorry, I'm a little late on this discussion about a fight between North America and the rest of the world, but about America Invaded 2003, what do the Europeans/Russians have to do to have supply sources in America ? I have never played it before, only a quick look and I had the impression that the Europeans have to fight without supply. Does someone have infos about that ? I don't really know how to find them.

La Palice.

Kraut
14 Aug 03, 15:20
I'm sorry, I'm a little late on this discussion about a fight between North America and the rest of the world, but about America Invaded 2003, what do the Europeans/Russians have to do to have supply sources in America ? I have never played it before, only a quick look and I had the impression that the Europeans have to fight without supply. Does someone have infos about that ? I don't really know how to find them.

La Palice.

The EU is only out of supply at turn one, most ports along the coast are allied (thats the EU) supply points. here are all supplie points listed:

Supply Points:
Allies: 84,22.
Allies: 84,30.
Allies: 2,53 (SAB Supply Depot).
Allies: 66,7 (NY CITY).
Allies: 60,12 (BALTIMORE).
Allies: 60,18 (Norfolk/Virginia Beach).
Allies: 56,28 (Myrtle Beach).
Allies: 59,26 (Wilmington).
Allies: 50,34 (Savannah).
Allies: 51,44 (Patrick AFB (AFSC)).
Allies: 48,39 (Jacksonville).
Allies: 53,51 (MIAMI).
Allies: 46,44 (Tampa-St.Petersburg).
Allies: 36,38 (Hurlburt AFB(AFSC)).
Allies: 31,38 (Mobile).
Allies: 26,40 (NEW ORLEANS).
Allies: 15,40 (Port Arthur).
Allies: 12,41 (Galveston).
Allies: 4,46 (Corpus Christi).
Allies: 7,43.
Allies: 53,25 (Ft.Bragg).
Allies: 48,33 (Ft.Stewart).
Allies: 42,22 (Ft.Knox).
Allies: 24,16 (ST.LOUIS).
Allies: 42,11 (DAYTON).
Allies: 31,6 (CHICAGO).
Allies: 16,24 (Ft.Smith).
Allies: 41,4.
Allies: 41,3 (DETROIT).
USA: 0,5.
USA: 0,12.
USA: 2,17.
USA: 9,0 (Sioux Falls).
USA: 15,15 (KANSAS CITY).
USA: 2,23.
USA: 0,25.
USA: 0,31.
USA: 0,33.
USA: 0,37.
USA: 0,42.
USA: 0,39.
USA: 3,41 (SAN ANTONIO).
USA: 5,39 (AUSTIN).
USA: 11,40 (HOUSTON).
USA: 7,31 (DALLAS).
USA: 7,24 (OKLAHOMA CITY).
USA: 26,27 (MEMPHIS).
USA: 40,28 (ATLANTA).
USA: 31,5 (CHICAGO).
USA: 41,3 (DETROIT).
USA: 39,0.
USA: 41,0 (Sagina).
USA: 30,0 (Green Bay).
USA: 66,0 (ALBANY).
USA: 73,1 (BOSTON).
USA: 73,0 (Lawrence-Glouchester).
USA: 48,33 (Ft.Stewart).
USA: 41,4.
USA: 31,6 (CHICAGO).
USA: 42,11 (DAYTON).
USA: 24,16 (ST.LOUIS).
USA: 16,24 (Ft.Smith).
USA: 42,22 (Ft.Knox).
USA: 53,25 (Ft.Bragg).

LaPalice
14 Aug 03, 15:37
Thank you.
I really have to understand better the system if I don't want that my next tourney take the same way as in Normandy ! :dead:
I should have think about the editor to find the supply sources.

La palice.

General Staff
31 Oct 03, 19:39
Sorry but General Staff (irish) is better rated than Jamiam and Paulus (polish), Airluca (italian) and Bruce (uk) are also better rated than Heat

Actually just to set the record straight. I'm not Irish though I live in Dublin. I've also got dual nationality so could play either side- US or Europe. :devil:

As to rankings if you look closely at my record I've lost to JAMiAM. I've had the good fortune to mostly collaborate with HEAT. I think their rankings suffer a little from a lot of tournament play when you sometimes have to take a side that really doesn't have much of a prayer (Kasserine 43 as Allies anyone?), which tends to dilute the win/lose ratio. But the two of them really are (I think anyway) possibly the best players out there, with the addition of Richard, whose knowledge of the system- aside from his skill- is just staggering. The other players mentioned are just outside my experience.

I'd be interested in this as a kind of TOAW Ryder Cup, maybe along the lines of the Sands of Africa tournament with team members cooperating with hints/advice.

nemo
01 Nov 03, 07:03
If still unrated junior competitors are accepted, you gentlemen can count me in for this...

Nemo

P.S. : I shall let you guess on which side ;)

RavenStrike
01 Nov 03, 09:18
I had a deeper look at the 1947 - US invades Europe scenario and it seems to be to strong pro-Axis, they have almost twice the Infantry the US/UK fields, Arty almost equal, Axis has 43.000 tanks compared to US 29.000, the US/UK has a slight sea and air superiority. All units (axis and allies) start as untried, the all US/UK start at 70% proficiency and are therefore equally good as there german counterparts (expect for the german Pz units at 80%) but better than most Axis minors who are at 50-60%
There is very little information availabe (were are the US-supply points?) and the scenario briefing still reads Incomplete Scenario... not very encouraging.
There are also very few events making this scenario probably to straight forward with too little options the player can manipulate.

I also had a short look at Invasion America, a 1942 Axis invasion of the US, the scenario seems to be rich of events and offers different strategies (axis can activate Mexico or Japan or both as allies) but the reinforcements seems to be oddly low for such a large scale, full weeks/turn scenario. The axis get something like 110 Infantry/turn and 20 tanks/turn (thats all differen types of inf./tanks combined!)
As this scenario is similar to Fall Grau it's probably better to pick Fall Grau because that scenario was heavily playtested and improved over the last year.

So, hmm, if nobody else comes up with ideas we could choose between WW2 invasion of the USA (Fall Grau) and 2003 invasion of the USA (America Invaded) which is a shorter (40 turns) scenario with a smaller map than all the other scenarios mentioned. But could be fun nevertheless, has anybody played it yet and can give us some feadback?

If an existing NA/Europe scenario doesn't fit, could we use a plain vanilla scenario in a fictitous land (Atlantis?), where each entrant squares off against their opponent in a death match. The winner goes to the next round with only their remaining forces. If more victors are on one side they get to combine some forces and select the commander to go forward. This would continue until only one side is left standing. Just a thought.

jlbetin
01 Nov 03, 12:42
If an existing NA/Europe scenario doesn't fit, could we use a plain vanilla scenario in a fictitous land (Atlantis?), where each entrant squares off against their opponent in a death match. The winner goes to the next round with only their remaining forces. If more victors are on one side they get to combine some forces and select the commander to go forward. This would continue until only one side is left standing. Just a thought.

If All you could be patient up to end of this year my second battle for France scenario would be ready. Ask Mantis and Chuck about part of my work.
I working hard for all of us please hold the post :D

Kraut could you give some help on DSO FallshirmJäger Bataillon especialy concerning the Stabs une Versorgungkompanie TO&E
same for the Fallshirmjägerzuge

The gliederung of German Army is complete and with help of JMS most of the TO&E of main units is made but I still have some holes.

Same for Belgium army JMS again goves help but the TO&Es are a For Your Eyes Only secret level :D


Best Regards to your all

Der WanderHardWorker

laszlo.nemedi
01 Nov 03, 13:28
jlbetin:
I think the EU side cannot win without the Hungarian Army :D

As I think: with the Hungarian Army we would be so strong that it makes the scenario unbalanced. Maybe some pizzamaker commando is enough on my side :D

Wolf
01 Nov 03, 13:37
I don't care what scenario we use, I just want to get the tourney going and kick the Americans :D

General Staff
01 Nov 03, 13:59
I don't care what scenario we use, I just want to get the tourney going and kick the Americans :DLOL- you must be Welsh.... :devil:

One other thought- rather than invading the US (Fall Grau) why not just use Brett Turner's Normandy scenario for the US sector only.

Tiberius
01 Nov 03, 15:43
I think the best format would be along the lines of the OPFOR format.
Team play. Euros invade US; US invade Euros; then one scenario where clash on neutral ground.

jlbetin
01 Nov 03, 15:46
I think the best format would be along the lines of the OPFOR format.
Team play. Euros invade US; US invade Euros; then one scenario where clash on neutral ground.

With Deconman we tried to playtest the US invaded 2003 the 1st few turn were very disapointing. I wait for Deconman turn since 3 weeks now. But without news !!

Der Wanderer

Chuck?
01 Nov 03, 20:36
One scenario only sounds best. Otherwise it will drag out.

Becker
02 Nov 03, 05:53
Can i join the european team

every force needs a brilliant magnificent german commander with very special blitzkrieg movements and self destruction habits !!!!!

laszlo.nemedi
02 Nov 03, 06:01
Can i join the european team

every force needs a brilliant magnificent german commander with very special blitzkrieg movements and self destruction habits !!!!!

Lol... :D
If you have roots to Manstein...

I don't think if there was any recruiting yet...

Mantis
02 Nov 03, 23:11
This is a 'mini' tournament design. We'll be doing 1 large map only (basically one mega-game each), and points totalled to see which side wins. Bonus tourney points to ladder scores, of course.

JL - there will be no troubles waiting til Christmas and beyond. We're only about to get to round 2 of the WitW tourney, so there's still quite a bit to go!

jlbetin
03 Nov 03, 07:35
Ok Gents,

To give information on what I'm doing I 'll post here regularly some status on my scenario design.

The map is drawn for French part, need to finish UK, see zip file here included, it is a map file exported from OPART300.EXE -> a *.MAL file.

The French OOB and TO&E is made and included in the scenario
I sent files to Mantis and Sib to publish them on WHQ. ( I stressed/bored them a lot, thxs for their great patience).

The German OOB and TO&E is completed and 99% included in the scenario file. I'm just double checking it. I will probably publish them here too but the TO&E is less accurate than the French one.

I will include the Netherland army in the scenario this week.

Concerning the research I did during those last months,

1) I've still lot of problem with the Belgium TO&E, the OOB is easy to get at www.mil.be (http://www.mil.be), but it is difficult to get any TO&E except the one gave by JMS. I will improvise !!!
2) I probably won't include Italian army and let them opererate on eastern front only
3) Spanish Army thanks to JMS I think I got most of info
4) UK army, the Net, is rich enough and I got all the data, better the UK parliament give an exact number of plane ship and tanks of modern army in their annual report
5) US army, through the US army and US marine library, I'm abble to define a coherent OOB, the TO&E is not a problem. Thxs to Chuck who help to get actual units an number of plane of US AIR FOCE IN Europe
I have to define what could be the other US forces that could join the US 5Th Corps as well army divisions as airforces.
If some of you have ideas they are welcome.

6) I 've to search info on Russian Air force. If I'm not enough confident they will interfere only through Events machinery by decreasing US/UK supply level

If your are not interested in Scenario progress just told me, otherway I will continue to publish evolution.

Best regards to all future players

Jean-Luc

tigersqn
03 Nov 03, 15:54
I have to define what could be the other US forces that could join the US 5Th Corps as well army divisions as airforces.
If some of you have ideas they are welcome.


If your are not interested in Scenario progress just told me, otherway I will continue to publish evolution.

Best regards to all future players

Jean-Luc

Here is a link providing present deployments of US forces.


http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/wherearethedivisions.asp


Some pretty fair deductions could probably be made for deployment of units from CONUS with the info.
On the same site (or is it globalsecurity.com?) they have present deployments and training status of all capital ships.

jlbetin
03 Nov 03, 16:28
Here is a link providing present deployments of US forces.


http://www.strategypage.com/fyeo/howtomakewar/databases/wherearethedivisions.asp


Some pretty fair deductions could probably be made for deployment of units from CONUS with the info.
On the same site (or is it globalsecurity.com?) they have present deployments and training status of all capital ships.

THxs a lot Pierre. Very usefull link. ( It seems hotmail is working fine :D)

To all of you who have downloaded the map, your advices and criticms are welcome

Der Wanderer

tigersqn
04 Nov 03, 01:30
Here is that link to the Global Security site for US deployments around the world.

Even those Carrier deployments and training status.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/index.html

I'm amazed at some of the info you can find on this site. :surprise:

jlbetin
04 Nov 03, 09:38
Here is that link to the Global Security site for US deployments around the world.

Even those Carrier deployments and training status.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/index.html

I'm amazed at some of the info you can find on this site. :surprise:

Yes and I like too the one of Federation of American Scientist

Thks a lot TigerSqn

Der WanderWebNavigator

jlbetin
04 Nov 03, 09:42
Status on Scenario the 4th of november
--------------------------------------
French Airports placed on Map,
Add some missing Road names,
Uk map towns and roads drawn,
French Air Army defence units ( EDAS -> Escadron de Défense Air-Sol) included.

To be continued...

jlbetin
04 Nov 03, 17:39
For those interested in OOB and TO&E
have a look there

http://www.warfarehq.com/articles/toaw_articles/2003FrenchOOB.shtml


Der WanderNovelist :D

jlbetin
06 Nov 03, 19:44
Status November the 7th
------------------------

Double Checking German OOB I saw that the Heerestruppenkommandos
was missing it consist of the:

Artillerie Brigade 100 -> 6 Bataillons whose 3 are TOAWable MLRS 277 (x120)

FlugAbwerh Brigade 100 -> 10 Batailllons (126 Guepard + 100 Roland) and 3 Leichte fludAbwehr Raketen Batterie ( 45 Wiesel + stinger)

Pionier Brigade 100

some regiments of the 2 logistik brigades ( transport bataillon)

I began to install the Belgium units too 2 mech brigade and one ParaKomando brigade

Der WanderBaüMeister

tigersqn
08 Nov 03, 12:09
Found this on the Tank-net forums. Unsure as to it's accuracy.

The Stryker brigade will replace the 3rd Armored Cavalry Regiment. The rotation plan also
includes the following troop swaps over the next year:

3rd Infantry Division will be replaced by elements of the 82nd Airborne Division in
September.
1st Marine Expeditionary Forces will be replaced by Polish troops in September.
4th Infantry Division will be replaced by the 1st Infantry Division based in Europe and an
"enhanced" National Guard brigade by April.
1st Armored Division will be replaced by 1st Cavalry Division and an infantry brigade
supplied by the National Guard by April.
1st Cavalry Division will replace 2nd Light Cavalry Regiment by April.
A yet-to-be-named foreign force will replace the 101st Airborne Division by March.
2nd brigade of the 82nd Airborne won't be replaced and will return home by January.
173rd airborne brigade will not be replaced when it leaves in April.

jlbetin
10 Nov 03, 04:46
Scenario Status 11/10/2003 :surprise:
------------------------------

Most of Belgium units are included,
2/3 of Dutch army too, with many difficulties. Problem come from the fact that no official OBB of the Dutch is published. I work with a private web who publish only peace time OOB, and don't inform on Wartime OOB, with reserve units. 1/2 of Dutch army is based on reserve mobilisation.
In contrary of Belgium Army whose OOB is clearly published but with no TO&E, I got most of Dutch TO&E but no OOB :argh:

Tip for those interested in TOAW scenario design:
the Belgium IAFV APC with a 25mm gun is equivalent to the Dutch YPR 765.


This is for JMS
I think this link could have some interest for you
http://www.42blj.com/


Der WanderScenarioMaker

jlbetin
10 Nov 03, 16:18
Scenario Status 11/10/2003 22:16 :surprise:
-------------------------------------

Belgium Army is fully stored ouffff!!!!
Dutch Army 75% finish, I have just to install the 11 Luchtmobiele Brigade

Next Step Spanish army and all European army will be put in the box:D

Then I will attack US and UK units

1st Beta testing still scheduled for december


Der WanderScenarioMaker

jlbetin
13 Nov 03, 09:07
Scenario Status 11/13/2003 :surprise:
------------------------------
All the Netherland Army is stored.
I go to the Spanish army now, thanks to JMS for its helps for Belgium TO&E, and Spanish OOBTO&E. I just need to adjust its data to the lattest information published on the Spanish army Web

Guys to work on this scenario permits me to refresh my German, my Spanish and funniest I begin to understand the Dutch :D


Please note that all the European OOBs I used in my scenario are the official ones, they could be reused by other designers.

What would astonished you is the low number of units now. It is due to the OSCDE treaty, which limit the number of weapons in each country. By instance the Tcheque army can't have more than 700 MBTs, poles 1000, French, brits and german 1500 max each

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
17 Nov 03, 14:49
Status on the 17th of November
-------------------------------

More than 1/2 of Spanish units stored, but it will be slow down due to tournament, the rounds have high priority.

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
20 Nov 03, 18:53
Status on 21st of November
---------------------------
spanish army will be fully stored tomorow
Then I attack US and UK units

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
24 Nov 03, 19:35
Status on 25th of November
---------------------------
US Marines have boarded in the Scenario

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
03 Dec 03, 11:32
STATUS ON DECEMBER THE 3rd
------------------------------
Still working with US Army :
5th corps asset units are in, along with 1st brigade of 1st armored division. I installed too the 4 squadrons of 278th Armored Cavalry Regiment.

To be continued....

Der WanderScribe

jlbetin
04 Dec 03, 18:01
STATUS ON DECEMBER The 5th
------------------------------
1st Infantry division along 1st Armored division are stored

I'm prepare to install the 173 Airborne Brigade

Der WanderLoader

jlbetin
07 Dec 03, 19:25
STATUS ON DECEMBER 7TH
--------------------------
All US Army and Air forces are installed. I go on UK units Tomorow.

Hard job but I see the light at the end of the tunel

Der Wanderer

a white rabbit
08 Dec 03, 05:10
..when this thing starts, add a slot for me..kicking capitalist-imperialist butt sounds a good way to pass the winter :cheeky:

laszlo.nemedi
08 Dec 03, 05:21
..when this thing starts, add a slot for me..kicking capitalist-imperialist butt sounds a good way to pass the winter :cheeky:

These French people are bloodthirsty... :)

Kraut
08 Dec 03, 06:16
What would astonished you is the low number of units now. It is due to the OSCDE treaty, which limit the number of weapons in each country. By instance the Tcheque army can't have more than 700 MBTs, poles 1000, French, brits and german 1500 max each

Der Wanderer
Really ? My sources say that the german Bundeswehr has ~2800 MBTs and had ~4900 in 1988 ( 1988 / 2000 (http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/europa/deutschland/vergleich.htm) )


Uups, no, you are correct, the MBT count for 2003 is just 1500... http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/archive/monate/03-02-mil.htm

jlbetin
08 Dec 03, 14:39
Really ? My sources say that the german Bundeswehr has ~2800 MBTs and had ~4900 in 1988 ( 1988 / 2000 (http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/europa/deutschland/vergleich.htm) )


Uups, no, you are correct, the MBT count for 2003 is just 1500... http://www.globaldefence.net/deutsch/archive/monate/03-02-mil.htm

Kraut du kanst nicht ausdenken wieviel urhen habe ich passiert uber die Europaische und Deutschen WEB fur meine informationen zu entfinden


Kraut you can't kimagine how many hours I spend on European and German webs to get all my datas.

I hope you will enjoy the scenario

Der Wanderer

Becker
09 Dec 03, 10:03
why are we speaking german ?

i thought all germans were killed in 1945 ,
making german a dead language?


EDIT : Yes, now i remember ,it wasnt in Germany where the atom bomb was dropped,it was in Japan; sorry for the confusion but after seeing photos of Germans on television i got kind of confused.....

laszlo.nemedi
09 Dec 03, 11:42
why are we speaking german ?

i thought all germans were killed in 1945 ,
making german a dead language?


EDIT : Yes, now i remember ,it wasnt in Germany where the atom bomb was dropped,it was in Japan; sorry for the confusion but after seeing photos of Germans on television i got kind of confused.....
:hmmm: :drink:

jlbetin
14 Dec 03, 22:09
Beta version of scenario available !!!


Der Wanderer

tigersqn
15 Dec 03, 00:57
Where is it jl??

I couldn't find it in the scenario archive here.

jlbetin
15 Dec 03, 08:32
Those interested with to have a 1st look could send me Email

TigerSqn, did you receive my mail about travel ???
Der Wanderer

jlbetin
25 Dec 03, 15:01
To all readers the beta version 0.12 is made.
I still have comments about modification of units names, modification advices etc, that would be integrated in version 0.2

I will post on this forum the scenario as a Xmas gift, have a look on it

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
25 Dec 03, 17:54
To all readers the beta version 0.12 is made.
I still have comments about modification of units names, modification advices etc, that would be integrated in version 0.2

I will post on this forum the scenario as a Xmas gift, have a look on it

Der Wanderer

Done it is here

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4809

Der Wanderer

Becker
26 Dec 03, 14:57
this is bad

jlbetin
26 Dec 03, 16:12
this is bad

Why ??

Der wanderer

jlbetin
26 Dec 03, 16:14
Hi All of you interested in testing the scenario enroll you there

http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4809

and join an happy few who can say : I WAS THERE


Der WanderEnroller

Becker
26 Dec 03, 17:58
it does not open,

ER_Chaser
30 Dec 03, 23:49
after so many days of absence from this thread, I decided to take a look at my old boyz.... however, all what I see is this extremely entertaining conversation ;)

jlbetin
31 Dec 03, 05:11
after so many days of absence from this thread, I decided to take a look at my old boyz.... however, all what I see is this extremely entertaining conversation ;)

ER go to my thread Xmas gift and take fun with the scenario !!!!

Der Wanderer

jlbetin
22 Mar 04, 16:13
To all of you I post a new thread with version 0.2, there are plenty of changes, have a look

Der WanderPostman