Air and Air Defense Assets - Warsaw Pact

[Double Deuce]

FIXED WING

Elements of 16th Air Army - Soviet

...1 Sqdn/16th AA
......x12 MiG-23

Package 1

23mm GSh-23L (1) 4 shots


4x 57mm S-5 (4)


4x 57mm S-5 (4)


250kg Bomb (3)



Package 2

23mm GSh-23L (1) 4 shots
4x 57mm S-5 (8)
4x 57mm S-5 (8)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)



Package 3

23mm GSh-23L (1) 4 shots
Kh-23 Kerry (2)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)



Package 4

23mm GSh-23L (1) 4 shots
ZAB-250 FAE (4)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)
4x 57mm S-5 (4)

......x6 Su-17

Package 1

30mm NR-30 (2) 5 shots


Kh-23 Kerry (2)


4x 57mm S-5 (8)


ZAB-250 FAE (4)



Package 2

30mm NR-30 (2) 5 shots


Kh-25 Karen (2)


4x 57mm S-5 (8)


4x 57mm S-5 (8)



Package 3



30mm NR-30 (2) 5 shots
ZAB-250 FAE (4)
RBK-250 CBU (4)

ROTARY WING

Elements of 1 Regiment/8th Guards Tank Army - Soviet

...1 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x12 Mi-24 Hind D (# 366)
...2 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x12 Mi-24 Hind D (# 366)

Package 1

12.7mm (4) YakB (10 HE)
9M114 Shturm (4 AP)
2x57mm S-5K (12 HE, 4 AP)
2x57mm S-5K (12 HE, 4 AP)

AIR DEFENSE

1st Bn/8th Air Defense Rgt/8th Guards Tank Army - Soviet

...A Bty/8th AD Rgt/8th GTA
......x4 SA-6 Gainful
......x2 ZSU-23-4 Shilka
...B Bty/8th AD Rgt/8th GTA
......x4 SA-6 Gainful
......x2 ZSU-23-4 Shilka
...C Bty/8th AD Rgt/8th GTA
......x3 SA-4 Ganef
......x2 ZSU-23-4 Shilka

[mr_clark]

You have already thought out which version of the Mi24 you will include?

Another point.There is no more Mig-17 soviet oob in 84, being taken out in the game in the 70s. East Germany OOB doesn't include them anymore either, so there only remains the Hungarian variant, which is really really bad, being armed only with cannon and 250kg bombs, not to mention the EW/vision etc settings.

[Double Deuce]

You have already thought out which version of the Mi24 you will include?Probably the D verison and the Senior/Team Commanders will have the ability to designate a loadout package based on those available in WinSPMBT when assigning them to missions each OP Turn.

Another point.There is no more Mig-17 soviet oob in 84, being taken out in the game in the 70s. Sorry, thought I saw them there in the EG OOB but upon looking agin they are not. Changed them to another x6 MiG-21's.

[mr_clark]

OK, glad to help :D

So, Comrades, we need a place to discuss our equipment selections...

[Double Deuce]

OK, glad to help :D

So, Comrades, we need a place to discuss our equipment selections...Once we get a little further along (OK, once I get a little further along) I will be setting up the Team's Secure Sub-Forums. I want to make sure interested players have decided on a side BECAUSE once they get access to one or the other, no changes will be made.

[mr_clark]

Sure, no need to rush it, you seem to have a lot of other things to do.

[Pannonicus]

Su-25 Grach is not available yet? They would be the weapon of choice to me for CAS.

[mr_clark]

It should be available, though I don't have the game here to check it.

[Spark Vark]

Just checked, and according to the game, the Su-25 is available starting in 1977, so it could show up in our game. Unless I missed one of the loadouts though, there are no loadouts for our timeframe that include AGMs, so the other aircraft types listed in the OOB do have that advantage.

[Double Deuce]

Whats listed in the Air Asset threads is what is most likely confirmed to be available in the campaign with a few minor tweaks before being finalized.

[Pannonicus]

And can they operate anywhere? Is it possible to use them for CAP missions as well? (Mig-23 is primarily a fighter)

[Double Deuce]

And can they operate anywhere?Yes, they can reach anywhere on the Operational Map froma designated spot on the Map edge. Once aircraft are assigned a mission the path of their movement will need to be plotted (hex by hex to the target area) so that any enemy ADA assets can engage them.
Is it possible to use them for CAP missions as well? (Mig-23 is primarily a fighter)There will be no CAP type stuff in the campaign. All aircraft are considered for use in ground support only. Air-to-Air, CAP and stuff is outside the scope of the what we are doing.

[Spark Vark]

Yes, they can reach anywhere on the Operational Map froma designated spot on the Map edge. Once aircraft are assigned a mission the path of their movement will need to be plotted (hex by hex to the target area) so that any enemy ADA assets can engage them.
There will be no CAP type stuff in the campaign. All aircraft are considered for use in ground support only. Air-to-Air, CAP and stuff is outside the scope of the what we are doing.


Too bad, that would be fun. I've often wished for CAP in SP to deal with pesky attack helicopters or close support aircraft. Still, it would be a bit too complex to add here.

[Pannonicus]

An SA-6 battery has 4 launch vehicles (12 missiles), and the SA-4 3 (6 missiles) pieces. Even if you do not give reload, we should have full batteries to function.

BTW, reload is not that impossible either, it takes about 15 minutes to load the full 3 missiles on the launch vehicle of SA-6. For SA-4, it is about the same for the 2 missiles.

[Double Deuce]

An SA-6 battery has 4 launch vehicles (12 missiles), and the SA-4 3 (6 missiles) pieces. Even if you do not give reload, we should have full batteries to function.I made the changes. I set it up the other way because of the purchase structures in SPMBT AND the role of Air assests in this campaign will be very limited. Now I'm off to redo the NATO ADA Stuff. :laugh:

[Shortreengage]

IIRC ADA BN of MRD used SA8. SA6 in TD.

Shortreengage

[Pannonicus]

I am not against a change... In Hungary we did not have SA-8, so I have little knowledge of this system. But if we change to it, fine with me!

[Double Deuce]

IIRC ADA BN of MRD used SA8. SA6 in TD. After consulting the "Book of Armaments", I mean my FM 100-2-3. "The Soviet Army: Troops, Organization and Equipment - June 1991":laugh: this is what I found.

The SA-6 SAM is the standard SAM at Division level but many Divisional SAM Regiments have the SA-8 as an alternative to the SA-6. In essense you could probably find either or but for purposes of this campaign 2nd MRD has the SA-6's.

[Shortreengage]

Yes it does say that on page 4-58 :whist: I had other sources. No problem, I'll just grab my MRE and crawl back into my drivers hole. :D

[Pannonicus]

After consulting the "Book of Armaments", I mean my FM 100-2-3. "The Soviet Army: Troops, Organization and Equipment - June 1991":laugh: this is what I found.

The SA-6 SAM is the standard SAM at Division level but many Divisional SAM Regiments have the SA-8 as an alternative to the SA-6. In essense you could probably find either or but for purposes of this campaign 2nd MRD has the SA-6's.

Interestingly, the OOB also has SA-11 BUK for 1984. I did not know it appeared that early. Dont get me wrong, I am happy with my SA-6s. It is just interesting...

[Shortreengage]

Truth! But is'nt the SA11 a very advanced varient of the SA6?

[Pannonicus]

It is. It is as advanced, that it is basically a separate system... :laugh:

[Waape]

SA-11 would be too much, they already have superiorty! :mad:

[Pannonicus]

SA-11 would be too much, they already have superiorty! :mad:

I said we will clear the skies with those rusty old SA-6s! Better leave your planes in those reinforced shelters... :smoke:

[Double Deuce]

Here in the 1st post is the Air and Air Defense OOB for the WP.

[Double Deuce]

To balance points in the air assets I have added another Squadron to the WP Air Units. Check the 1st post.

Added;

...2 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x12 Mi-24 Hind D

NATO will be receiving additional ADA assets to counter them and at the same time this will bring their ground force points to a closer balance with the WP.

[mr_clark]

Hmm, sounds fine with me. In regard to how sensible choppers are it sounds like a good trade.

[Shortreengage]

To balance points in the air assets I have added another Squadron to the WP Air Units. Check the 1st post.

Added;

...2 Sqdn/1st Rgt/8th GTA
......x12 Mi-24 Hind D

NATO will be receiving additional ADA assets to counter the and at the same time this will bring their ground force points to a closer balance with the WP.
:censored: Dumbfounded :shock:

[mr_clark]

At least the unit with the Gepards and the Stinger Brigade will be save :P

[Double Deuce]

Due to a difference in the actual unit capabilites I have removed from the Mi-24 Hind D (# 366) the following loadout option;

Package 2

12.7mm (4) YakB (10 HE)
9M114 Shturm (4 AP)
2x80mm S-8 (12 HE, 4 AP)
2x80mm S-8 (12 HE, 4 AP)

This option gives the Mi-24 unit TI capablities as opposed to justa different weapons package.