View Full Version : 35th PzGr BDE OOB (NATO v WP) - West Germany
Double Deuce
09 Aug 05, 12:20
Here is the current DRAFT OOB for;
35th PanzerGrenadier Brigade/12th Panzer Division - West German
...HQ/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x4 M577A2 C2V (US OOB)
...35th Rec Co/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x12 SpPz Luchs A1
......x3 Fuchs
...35th Eng Co/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Pioneers
......x1 Stinger Team
......x13 Fuchs
......x3 Milan
......x4 Pionierpanzer 1
...35th ADA Co/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x4 Gepard A1
......x4 Roland
...355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x2 Scouts
......x2 Fuchs
......1 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M109G
.........x6 M548 Munitions
......2 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M109G
.........x6 M548 Munitions
......3 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M110A2
.........x6 M548 Munitions
...351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x1 Stinger Team
......x3 Milan
......x3 MG3 MMG
......x3 Carl Gustav
......x13 Fuchs
......x1 KanJagdPz VB
......x4 120mm Mortars
......x4 MAN N 4520
......x10 Jaguar 1
......1 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......2 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......3 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......4 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 M113GA1
...352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x1 Stinger Team
......x3 Milan
......x3 MG3 MMG
......x3 Carl Gustav
......x13 Fuchs
......x1 KanJagdPz VB
......x4 120mm Mortars
......x4 MAN N 4520
......x10 Jaguar 1
......1 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......2 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......3 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......4 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 M113GA1
...354th Pz Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x7 Leopard 2A1
......x1 Fuchs
......x1 Scouts
......x8 SpPz Luchs A1
......x5 Jaguar 1
......x6 PzMrs 113 A1G
......1 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 1A2A1
......2 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 1A2A1
......3 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 2A1
John Osborne
09 Aug 05, 12:59
Here is the current DRAFT OOB for;
35th PanzerGrenadier Brigade/12th Panzer Division - West German
...HQ/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x
...355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x2 Scouts
......x2 Fuchs
......1 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M109G
.........x6 M548 Munitions
......2 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M109G
.........x6 M548 Munitions
......3 Bty/355th PzG FA/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x1 KanJagdPz VB
.........x6 M110A2
.........x6 M548 Munitions
...351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x1 Stinger Team
......x3 Milan
......x3 MG3 MMG
......x3 Carl Gustav
......x13 Fuchs
......1 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......2 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......3 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......4 Co/351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 M113GA1
...352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x1 Stinger Team
......x3 Milan
......x3 MG3 MMG
......x3 Carl Gustav
......x13 Fuchs
......1 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......2 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......3 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 Marder 1A2
......4 Co/352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 PanzerGrenadiers
.........x9 Marder 1A2+
.........x4 M113GA1
...354th Pz Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x7 Leopard 2A1
......x1 Fuchs
......x1 Scouts
......x8 SpPz Luchs A1
......x5 Jaguar 1
......1 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 1A2A1
......2 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 1A2A1
......3 Co/354th PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
.........x13 Leopard 2A1
I take it that the 353rd PzG Bn is out of the picture? Also I don't see any M125? There should be 6-per PzG Bn and 6-120mm mortars per PzG Bn.
What about my Engineer assets? And is there any attack helicopters? More questions to come. Need to do some reading :)
JohnO
Double Deuce
09 Aug 05, 13:27
I take it that the 353rd PzG Bn is out of the picture?Yes, more than likely. What I posted was my initial info. What I will be doing is converting all applicable units into the COCAT DB and setting up some Excel spreadsheet so I can do some force point comparisons. Obviously, points will not ensure balance but it gives me something measurable to work with.
Oh and thanks for the maps.
Double Deuce
12 Aug 05, 12:06
What about my Engineer assets?What would the Brigade have available? I would think they would have at least a Recon BN, Engineer BN and ADA assets. I also need a Brigade HQ force layout. Not everything but the Command Section/HQ.
And is there any attack helicopters?Aviation assets are still be worked out. I have some ideas BUT nothing firm yet. IMHO Helo's can really unbalance games in SPMBT. Fixed wing not so much but Helo's are a big ????
John Osborne
12 Aug 05, 12:45
What would the Brigade have available? I would think they would have at least a Recon BN, Engineer BN and ADA assets. I also need a Brigade HQ force layout. Not everything but the Command Section/HQ.
With the sound of pages being turned in my NATO OOB in the back ground :) I see that the 12th Panzer Division has the 12th Flak Regiment: 36 Gepard, the 12th Recon Battalion: 28 Leopards I and 28 Luchs, and the 12th Engineer Battalion: 4 dozers, 8 AVLB, 8PiPz, 4 MiW, 12 FSB (bridge). Let me get with a friend of mine who may have these units broken down to company and platoon level.
Aviation assets are still be worked out. I have some ideas BUT nothing firm yet. IMHO Helo's can really unbalance games in SPMBT. Fixed wing not so much but Helo's are a big ????
Then what will the status be for the NATO Air Force?
Aviation assets are still be worked out. I have some ideas BUT nothing firm yet. IMHO Helo's can really unbalance games in SPMBT. Fixed wing not so much but Helo's are a big ????
I completely agree here. Helo's sometimes give you large advantages. But somehow I would refrain from taking them out of the campaign completely, as they surely are an important factor of modern warfare.
Maybe one can somehow arrange for helo units being present for only a couple of turns, simulating fuel restrains and fightercover. For I am not completely sure but It should be possible to at least select the entrance time of units when a scenario is build. As I am not that much into the editors I am not sure whether they can be taken out of it again at a specific point in time.
It is most likely hard to incorporate that, but maybe one can include something like Helicopter units on the strategic map, selecting some special tactical involvement for the Helos.
Then one might even go firther including "checks" for the possibility of helicopter use, like the other sides player can decide to use fighter interdiction but thus also reducing the chance of airsupport in a tactical engagement or even include 'lucky shots' by AAA or MANPADS sitting somwhere in the route of the helicopters...
All very interesting things, IMHO, though they might/surely go wider than the original SPMBT "size", but so goes a combat campaign.
Whilst I can see that Helos can unbalance the game in a big way, I imagine they would have been key in a potential east/west confrontation. I think they should make an appearance of some sort, if possible. Perhaps limiting their ammo, for example.
Pannonicus
12 Aug 05, 17:08
Some helos must be preserved. I think fighter interdiction on strategic level would be one way to deal with it, also there should be airfields to supply them. They could really play role by interdicting enemy supply, thus forcing the enemy to clear its rear.
Attack helos should be used as well, they are integral part of both side's doctrine.
What about being able to use "special supply points" in each turn, dedicated to buy such units, but only for one turn. Like in campaigns - core and auxiliary units.
The helos are our queens so to say. There must be a few on each side. Not too many though.
Some 4 Apaches VS 8 Hinds os something like that.
Or 12 PAH vs * Hinds.
Artur.
Blimey, 4 apaches to 8 hinds :) I don`t fancy meeting those hinds on the battle fields, they totally bristle with ordanance.
Pannonicus
13 Aug 05, 05:34
Blimey, 4 apaches to 8 hinds :) I don`t fancy meeting those hinds on the battle fields, they totally bristle with ordanance.
But Apaches have a lot more ATGMs. And in this campaign this is what really counts!
But Apaches have a lot more ATGMs. And in this campaign this is what really counts!
Exactly.
Artur.
yes, lots of ATGMs on the apache. Still, it depends what your facing, each situation/mission I`m sure will offer different challenges in this campaign. :)
I may have missed this, what year in the campaign set?
I thought it was.
No apaches for the US forces then :(
They didn`t appear in 1984....a few more years yet before they were on the scene fully, I think
I thought it was.
No apaches for the US forces then :(
They didn`t appear in 1984....a few more years yet before they were on the scene fully, I think
True...
I thought about Cobras. They have 8ATGMs (improved TOWs) and a vision of 40. Shall I say more?
The Hinds have 4 ATGMs and no vision through smoke.
(EDIT they also have a vision of 40. I have to test if they see through smoke-probably not)
A ratio of 1:2 may be even a good bargain for the west.
Artur.
True...
I thought about Cobras. They have 8ATGMs (improved TOWs) and a vision of 40. Shall I say more?
The Hinds have 4 ATGMs and no vision through smoke.
A ratio of 1:2 may be even a good bargain for the west.
Artur.
yes, didn`t like to mention the cobras. ;)
The hind E has vision 40, available january 1984 to 2005, though I admit less ATGMS.
Artu: All vision 40 and more units can see through smoke IIRC.
Pannonicus
13 Aug 05, 07:27
yes, didn`t like to mention the cobras. ;)
The hind E has vision 40, available january 1984 to 2005, though I admit less ATGMS.
In Hungary it is only possible to use Mi-24D in that time, so no vision for them. In Soviet OOB it is possible.
In Hungary it is only possible to use Mi-24D in that time, so no vision for them. In Soviet OOB it is possible.
The order of battle gives Mi-24 (two differnt loadout options of ATGMs) avialvable from jan 1981 and jan 1984 respectively. Both have vision 40 in the hungarian OOB
Not saying these units are historically accurate available date etc, but they are in the oob.
edit: just spotted that the hind-d in the hungarian OOb have vision 40 as well. I`m using the CD version, which has had a small update. Same availability dates.
Pannonicus
13 Aug 05, 09:10
Then the better for us. :) Sometimes the Hungarian OOB is like a wish-list... :(
John Osborne
13 Aug 05, 12:16
Lets not forget the West German PAH-1 BO-105 :) but they have a vision 20.
John Osborne
15 Aug 05, 18:40
What would the Brigade have available? I would think they would have at least a Recon BN, Engineer BN and ADA assets. I also need a Brigade HQ force layout. Not everything but the Command Section/HQ.
I know you're busy, between the Hungarian crying :cry: about why I don't have this and that in my Glories Hungarian Army and the Soviet Union Army. Could you finish up on the West German units? :D I sent to you the documents for those units in question. :whist:
(Pannonicus, I'm joking about the crying part. would be doing the same just havn't had the time yet :( )
Pannonicus
15 Aug 05, 18:43
(Pannonicus, I'm joking about the crying part. would be doing the same just havn't had the time yet :( )
I know you are a good commander, caring a about the well-being of your men too! ;)
Double Deuce
15 Aug 05, 23:59
Could you finish up on the West German units? :D I sent to you the documents for those units in question. :whist:Modified changes made in 1st Post in RED.
John Osborne
18 Aug 05, 08:07
[QUOTE=Double Deuce]Here is the current DRAFT OOB for;
35th PanzerGrenadier Brigade/12th Panzer Division - West German
...351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x10 Jaguar 1
...352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x10 Jaguar 1
Is this correct? twenty (20) Jaegers? All though I'm not complaning. I just don't want other players on the WP side saying, "How come he has all those Jaegers?"
[QUOTE=Double Deuce]Here is the current DRAFT OOB for;
35th PanzerGrenadier Brigade/12th Panzer Division - West German
...351st PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x10 Jaguar 1
...352nd PzG Bn/35th PzG Bde/12th Pz Div
......x10 Jaeger
......x10 Jaguar 1
Is this correct? twenty (20) Jaegers? All though I'm not complaning. I just don't want other players on the WP side saying, "How come he has all those Jaegers?"
Don't worry I already sent DD an over-all unit statistics demanding more WP troops :devious:
Artur.
[QUOTE=John Osborne]
Don't worry I already sent DD an over-all unit statistics demanding more WP troops :devious:
Artur.
I dont think you have mangaged to fully grasp the purpouse of this game yet. The idea is that NATO is supposed to win, that is the whole thing really. :laugh: .
By the way, what are the Jaeagers equiped with? Pzf44, sniper rifles or is it a mix?
Double Deuce
18 Aug 05, 09:47
Is this correct? twenty (20) Jaegers? All though I'm not complaning. I just don't want other players on the WP side saying, "How come he has all those Jaegers?":laugh:
It is correct. They are part of the PanzerGrenadier BN's organic Recon Company. It might not be accurate but it is how its structured in WinSPMBT.
I think, if i can, i would like to use West Germany. If we are getting a brigade each.
They are similar in strengh to the US, but i don't like the Tank combination of M1's and M60's. M60's are slugs, and in my experience they hold back the pace of the M1.
Thats if i still have the opportunity to choose.
Double Deuce
16 Sep 05, 10:54
Changes Posted!
Changes Posted!
I can't see any, just bumping this lot up too? :cool:
Double Deuce
19 Sep 05, 08:41
I can't see any, just bumping this lot up too? :cool:Yeah, pretty much. All unit equipment should be in black text and all are set for the final revisions AFTER the patch is released.
Double Deuce
19 Sep 05, 09:41
Draft COCAT File completed on my PC.
Double Deuce
01 Dec 05, 14:18
Bumped to keep it on the 1st page for easier review/reference.
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