9th TD (-) OOB (NATO v WP) - East Germany

[Double Deuce]

Here is the current DRAFT OOB for;
9th Tank Division (-) - East Germany

...HQ/9th Tank Division
......x2 MT-LB 1V21
......9 Rec Bn/9th Tk Div
.........x27 SPW-40P
.........x24 RPG-7 Team
.........x9 Infantry Squad
.........x9 SPZ BMP-1P
.........x2 T-62M1975
.........x3 SPW-40P AT-3
......9 Eng Bn/9th Tk Div
.........x9 Engineers
.........x9 SPW-60PB
.........x3 T-55A KMT
.........x3 T-55/BTU Dozer
......3 Bn/9th Art Rgt/9th DAG/9th Tk Div
.........x3 GAZ 69u
.........x18 M1976
.........x18 Ammo Carrier

...9th MRR/9th Tank Division (BMP)
......x2 MT-LB 1V21
......9 Rec Co/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x9 SPW-40P
.........x8 RPG-7 Team
.........x3 Infantry Squad
.........x3 SPZ BMP-1P
......9 Art Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x1 GAZ 69u
.........x6 SFL M-1976
.........x6 Ammo Carrier
......9 ADA Bty/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x4 Fla-SFL 23/4
......9 ATM Bty/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x1 SPW-40P
.........x9 SPW-40 9P122
......9 Eng Co/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x3 Engineers
.........x3 SPW-60PB
......1 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x30 Infantry Squad
.........x39 SPZ BMP-1P
.........x3 12.7mm NSV MMGs
.........x6 7.62mm PKM MMGs
.........x9 Strela Team
......2 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x30 Infantry Squad
.........x39 SPZ BMP-1P
.........x3 12.7mm NSV MMGs
.........x6 7.62mm PKM MMGs
.........x9 Strela Team
......3 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x30 Infantry Squad
.........x39 BTR-60PB
.........x6 7.62mm PKM MMGs
.........x12 Malutka Team
......4 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x12 T-72
.........x20 T-55AM

[mr_clark]

On the tanks:

I from what I know about it the current tank structure in the 4th BN is highly unlikely. More than 2 different versions of tanks in a single unit are highly unlikely.
My recommendation would be the following: Take out the T-72. The NVA only had small numbers of them and most were incorporated into close border units, so they would be used in actions at the beginning of the war, thus it is highly unlikely that there are any left. I would recommend to get them out of the OOB and, to make the force still not obsolete, upgrade the used T-55 to a higher version. Most realistic would be the AM2D variant. The whole update parts of these tanks were produced in the GDR and thus very many T-55 were upgreaded to this standart. When I worked out the EastGerman OOB for SPCamo, I worked a lot with my grandfather who was a Colonel in the NVA, he stated that by mid 1986 (the time these tanks acutally enter service in SPMBT) more than a third of the active duty T-55 had been upgreaded to the here called T-55AM2D version.
The production of the parts was a high priority for the GDR defense industry until the end of the state, as upgrading the T-55 was thought very important, as the T-55 was still the most widespread and most important MBT of the NVA.
The rest of the OOB you posted seems quite right to me, though I can't crosscheck with my books for another 3 weeks. What should definately not be changed is that no BMP2s are used.

[Double Deuce]

The only ones I see in the current East German OOB for Oct 1984 are;

T-55AM
T-62M1975
T-72

[mr_clark]

Ahh right (I somehow confused the date of the scenario...), then I would recommend to leave the T-72 out for 'realism' reasons. There were only very few in Service at that time and I doubt there would be some left after half a year of war.

[Pannonicus]

As we discussed, I would rather recommend to leave out T-62s, as they would surely be destroyed, and would not be replaced.

[Double Deuce]

Change to base OOB has been made with the following.

......4 Bn/9th MRR/9th Tk Div
.........x12 T-72
.........x20 T-55AM

[mr_clark]

Allright, and thank you.

Now I must start practising putting holes in M60A3s and M1s with them... :)

[Pannonicus]

With T-55AM try from the sides - that MAY work. :cry:

[Artur]

Well there are other valuable targets for T55s , Bradleys, Marders, M113s and some fat juicy infantry :devil: .

Artur.

PS: Pannonicus it looks like you have arrived home :) It was some good beers we have drunk today wasn't it? :nuts: :laugh:

[Pannonicus]

It was! T-55AM: Yep, against M113 they are still great!

[mr_clark]

Allright, I just finished a random battle US vs GDR.

Forces where the following:
GDR
Company of 10 T-55AM
Platoon of 3 BMP1P with 3 mech infantry sections
Section of 2 ZSU57-2

US
Section of 2 M60A3 (TTS)
Section of 2 M1 (the more expensive of the two available)
Platoon of 4 M113A2 with 3 mech infantry sections and 2 Dragon
Flight of 2 A-10 with 2*6 Mk82 equipped

Admittedly there is a sizable imbalance of numbers favouring the GDR player, but they were purchased for an equal number of points

MAP

It was one of my favourite sized maps for SPMBT, 40*80, and was an urban setting.


AAR:
The Tanks advanced fast forward to capture the flags in the middle of the maps by turn 2, one PLatoon leader was shot at and destroyed by a single round from a M60 at a range of 1450m, so the other two tanks took position at a crossroad right just behind the destroyed tank.
One Platoon of T-55 proceeded on a long straight road in the north, taking the onle flag around.
IN the south a platoon was advancing towards a group of flags at a crossroad just in the american half of the map, were shot at by M1, so they dispersed left and right of the road.
The BMP and infantry were taking flags in the Urban territory behind the Tanks, while the ZSU took position on the crest of a slope in the rear area.
In the enemy turn 2 the M1s advanced down the road, as expected (AI is sometimes quite predictable) and where ambushed by the first T-55 for no kills but one no-damage hit with the gun and several no effect hits with the MGs. M1s fired back, one hit no kill. No visual of the M60s, and no idea where the infantry is.
My turn 3. I had a lot of luck this turn.
My southern tanks attacked the M1s, first the one facing them shot at one of them, getting a 30points weak spot bonus, blowing it up by a HEAT hit through the front turret armor, return fire of the other M1 kills the now no more so lucky tank. Other T-55 move to the flank of the M1, range 50m first shot 80% chance, miss, no return fire, second shot hit chance 99%, hit penetrates the side turret, kill. T55 takes postion again in anticipation of enemy units moving on the road.
Middle platoon remains static, should be reinforced by BMP and infantry the next turn, further advance in the north, now moving in the supposedly rear area of the Enemy.
Enemy turn: A10 strikes, bombing runs down a road by both planes kill a BMP, second run kills the bailed out infantry and crew.
Collapsing structre a little northeast of the position of my middle T-55, M60 emerges in free area next to the structure, assaulted by T55 hit for no damage, no return fire.
M113 moves into the trap set by the two middle T-55, kill, second M113 follows hit, no damge, third M113 arrives, again shot, no hit. Then infantry bails out the M113, taken under fire by T55s MGs for casualties and supression.
In the south an M113 appears as well is killed by one of the T55s, after that one of them is assaulted and killed by a infantry squad.
The rest: Mopping up, Mech infantry and tanks move for killing the remaining infantry in the middle, northern forces move to get behind the suspected position of remaining M60, southern T55 destroys infantry and moves along the road to capture flags, as no enemy is to be expected, kills enemy HQ two turns later.
Casulties is one immobilized T55. Further casulties through last M60 attacking and destroying a BMP, until attacked in the rear by T55 platoon. Enemy Airstrikes on immobilized T55, second A10 kills it with cannonfire. One of the two A10s got hit for 17 damage by ZSU.

Results:
losses: GDR USA
men 26 58
IFV 2 4
AFV 4 4

marginal victory



Lessons learned for the tournament:

The T55AM is a very good tank, if it can count on areas reducing the vision advantage of the american tanks, to sneak in close.
BMP1 is effective against M113s, only good in AT role in very close range, best is to have the enemy just outside the minimum range of the ATGM.
NATO airpower is extremely effective if properly used, plus hard to counter with AAA. Both ZSU fired three to four times on each A10 during the attack runs each time reaching between 10 and 20 percent hit chance, an actual hit does good damage, though.

That means for us:

Need to advance coverdly to point blank range for Hungarian and GDR units. Protection through AAA and SAM recommended, though it is unlikely to actually shoot down the enemy planes the risk of damage is always there, thus the NATO player risks a lot if he uses airpower too boldly.
Try to move to favourable terrain early. Though a sitting target might be easier to hit, sitting still also improves the hit chances of earlier WP tanks decicively. Positioning a platoon of tanks behind a hill, allowing them to overlook it without being seen from the other side, or deployment of mulitple tanks covering one hex, likely used for advance, can reduce the Western Armours superiority.

[Pannonicus]

Good AAR, thank you for that!

I have played some games like this, and the result was the similar.

We need to improve air defense (this is why I lobby so hard for KUB complexes). ZSU-57-2 is actually a very useless unit, unless used in anti-APC role (as Syrians found out in Beeka Valley). ZSU-23-4 is much better, you should try them.

T-55AMs are good on close ranges - the art is to avoid being hit before this range. The main advantage of BMP is its Malyutka, so try to set them to overlook fields. With distance, accuracy of Malyutak improves! So try to use them on 1-2km range.
In urban fighting, 2A40 gun is not bad, I have seen it taking our ERA-armored T-72s. (Altohugh that was nmostly by luck.)
I wonder why you did not send ahead infantry to ambush from buildings. They are very potent with RPG-7, easily killing M1s.
RPG teams of GDR will infiltrate easily in such terrain. Once I played against Austrians, and 3 RPG teams held back a company of M60s for 5 turns. They always hit the lead tank, so the enemy player did not dare to advance forward. (He did not have infantry to cover.) Then my artillery found them. :laugh:

[Spark Vark]

Good AAR, thank you for that!

T-55AMs are good on close ranges - the art is to avoid being hit before this range. The main advantage of BMP is its Malyutka, so try to set them to overlook fields. With distance, accuracy of Malyutak improves! So try to use them on 1-2km range.


I've also noted that the BMP-1s 73mm gun can be very useful weapon as well. The Malyutka is great at long range, but when closer in I've found that the 73mm has the penetrating power to punch through the armor of older Western tanks without much difficulty. Not that you should be getting your BMPs mixed in close with enemy tanks if you can avoid it, but if push comes to shove the BMP still has some teeth against tanks.

[Double Deuce]

Changes posted!

[Double Deuce]

Draft COCAT uni File completed on my PC.

[mr_clark]

Does that mean anything for us?

[Double Deuce]

Does that mean anything for us?Not really. :) The only point was to let those who are familair with COCAT know this task is pretty much done.

[mr_clark]

Allright. Err, do I have to be familiar with COCAT for the campaing?

[Double Deuce]

Allright. Err, do I have to be familiar with COCAT for the campaing?At some point maybe. For now ALL orders will be given via the forum like with Island Civil War. What COCAT will be handy for is to "see" graphically the Operational Map as things develop. Following the overall situation via the forum can be done but it will be difficult to see it without COCAT.

[Double Deuce]

Bumped to keep it on the 1st page for easier review/reference.