Campaign Area (Draft)

[Double Deuce]

(ATTACHMENT SHOWS ALL 20 MAPS COMPLETED AND JOINED)

Here is a Map of the proposed Campaign Area. It is currently a 30x32 km area. 2 km hexes can be seen (barely) on attached map.

Is this a large enough area?

Questions, comments?

[Double Deuce]

This is the Campaign area IF we use the FreeForm Movement via COCAT.

If we use Hexes I will recreate the map in TOAW-COW with each hex being equal to 5 km (more or less). BUT by doing this is will throw the map scale way off as it would really only be 6x6 hexes in TOAW-COW. :o
What I would probably have to do is count each 2x2 km grid on the COCAT Map as a 5 km hex in TOAW-COW. This would at least make it a 16x15 hex map in COW (still not very big) but workable.

[John Osborne]

This is the Campaign area IF we use the FreeForm Movement via COCAT.

If we use Hexes I will recreate the map in TOAW-COW with each hex being equal to 5 km (more or less). BUT by doing this is will throw the map scale way off as it would really only be 6x6 hexes in TOAW-COW. :o
What I would probably have to do is count each 2x2 km grid on the COCAT Map as a 5 km hex in TOAW-COW. This would at least make it a 16x15 hex map in COW (still not very big) but workable.

I could set you up with some nice maps to use in COCAT :) that covers your AO.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/JohnOs/test3.jpg

JohnO

[Double Deuce]

If we are to use Hex Based movement system then I will use the attached file to build the operational Map in TOAW-COW. It makes the map area 19x19 (minus the the SE area that includes Austria). I think this will give us enough maneuver room BUT I will have to number all the hexes for keeping track of things.

I would prefer to keep as much of the bookeeping on the forums as possible. This way EVERYONE is seeing the same things which is not always possible when there are a crapload of COCAT files floating about. :o

[John Osborne]

If we are to use Hex Based movement system then I will use the attached file to build the operational Map in TOAW-COW. It makes the map area 19x19 (minus the the SE area that includes Austria). I think this will give us enough maneuver room BUT I will have to number all the hexes for keeping track of things.

I would prefer to keep as much of the bookeeping on the forums as possible. This way EVERYONE is seeing the same things which is not always possible when there are a crapload of COCAT files floating about. :o
So your saying I should take my nice maps of the area that your going to conduct your campaign on and go home with them :( (just joking) If you need some maps let me know. We owe you for the maps you sent to us here at work :)

johnO

[Double Deuce]

I could set you up with some nice maps to use in COCAT :) that covers your AO.Looks nice!! :D
Only issue would be building the maps in SPMBT. Having a map in COCAT with that much detail might cause problems if the SPMBT Maps are not identical. You know what I mean, the "according to the topo map in COCAT there is a house right there on the corner of that road at X elevation where my men could see everything moving in a 10km radius!" :halo:

Now, if we could get volunteers to recreate 8x6 km (160x120 hex) sections of your map in SPMBT it will definately work.

[Double Deuce]

So your saying I should take my nice maps of the area that your going to conduct your campaign on and go home with them :( (just joking) If you need some maps let me know. We owe you for the maps you sent to us here at work :)

johnOI would love to have them. I'm just thinking of all the extra work I'll have to do. :D

But it would be more realistic. If only SPMBT had a Map import feature. SPWAW kinda has one where you can import limited color bmp's. Maybe I need to have a word eith the CAMO guys.

[Double Deuce]

So your saying I should take my nice maps of the area that your going to conduct your campaign on and go home with them :( (just joking) If you need some maps let me know. I wonder if I could use the ODD Program in TOAW-COW to add hexes to your topo's that would serve as pretty good references for creating the SPMBT maps?

We owe you for the maps you sent to us here at work :)So you work with Curt? Used to serve with him in Germany, back in the day.

[John Osborne]

Looks nice!! :D
Only issue would be building the maps in SPMBT. Having a map in COCAT with that much detail might cause problems if the SPMBT Maps are not identical. You know what I mean, the "according to the topo map in COCAT there is a house right there on the corner of that road at X elevation where my men could see everything moving in a 10km radius!" :halo:

Now, if we could get volunteers to recreate 8x6 km (160x120 hex) sections of your map in SPMBT it will definately work.
Thats true. maybe on your next campaign we can use these map I have for COCAT and will have time to make them using SPMBT map editor. The maps cover a large areas of southern germany, northern italy, southern russia all of the balkan countries and allot more.

Just let me know when you might need them

JohnO

[Double Deuce]

Thats true. maybe on your next campaign we can use these map I have for COCAT and will have time to make them using SPMBT map editor. The maps cover a large areas of southern germany, northern italy, southern russia all of the balkan countries and allot more.

Just let me know when you might need them

JohnOThey will definately work in COCAT. Reproducing them in SPMBT is another thing. What I would love to do is (using COCAT 2.13 with its 4 maps and 3 zoom levels) is use the topo for the overview map and the smallest of the 3 zooms. Then use screenshots pasted together of the appropriate SPMBT maps for Zoom levels 2 and 3. That way when players zoom in and out the maps look seemless and all terrain more or less matches. Since the topo maps will not be zoomed in pretty far the terrain detail might be fuzzy enough to keep the rules lawyers at bay. :laugh:

Now that I am thinking about it I could "template" the necessary 160x120 hex SPMBT maps some adding baseline features and have volunteers flesh them out based on screenshots of the topo that covers the 8x6 km area of the corresponding SPMBT map thety are working on.

Which COCAT have you used? COCAT II is a lot less customizable thats whyu I prefer 2.13.

[John Osborne]

They will definately work in COCAT. Reproducing them in SPMBT is another thing. What I would love to do is (using COCAT 2.13 with its 4 maps and 3 zoom levels) is use the topo for the overview map and the smallest of the 3 zooms. Then use screenshots pasted together of the appropriate SPMBT maps for Zoom levels 2 and 3. That way when players zoom in and out the maps look seemless and all terrain more or less matches. Since the topo maps will not be zoomed in pretty far the terrain detail might be fuzzy enough to keep the rules lawyers at bay. :laugh:

Now that I am thinking about it I could "template" the necessary 160x120 hex SPMBT maps some adding baseline features and have volunteers flesh them out based on screenshots of the topo that covers the 8x6 km area of the corresponding SPMBT map thety are woorking on.

Which COCAT have you used? COCAT II is a lot less customizable thats whyu I prefer 2.13.
I have both COCATs and I like the zoom feature as well in COCAT 2.13. Mike, I'm going to shoot you an email with my phone number of work and home. And yes I know Curt :laugh: his desk is right next to mine.

[Artur]

We also need to know the location of the forests and minor roads to effectively plan the operational movement & other activities.

Artur.

[Pannonicus]

I agree - it will be helpful as well to know all terrain beforehand, so we can simulate/excercise before actual battles.

Location of airfields would be cool too, I would love to disable enemy frontal aviation by a helicopter raid against an airfiled. Just an idea.

Immobile SAMs would play a role, at least in WP they would surely follow the advancing army. KUB (SA-6) and KRUG (SA-4) systems for sure, but in a few days VOLHOV (SA-2) and NEVA (SA-3) systems could also be deployed close to the front.

[Double Deuce]

I agree - it will be helpful as well to know all terrain beforehand, so we can simulate/excercise before actual battles.Are you sure you're not Artur with a 2nd Username/Account here. You Hungarian's take this stuff way too seriously. :whist: :laugh:

My hope is to have ALL the necessary maps created in advance and available as a package for download. I think I wll need at least 20 8x6 km (160x120 hex) maps. This will cover a 32x30 km Operational Area. This is what I did for both Crmea and Red Snow although using volunteers to do the Red Snow Maps caused some headaches when a person's design techniques made a couple starting maps unplayable.

What I am thinking about doing is creating the 20 base maps and then ask a couple people to review, edit and tweak them. If I do them all they may end up with a templated/similar look.

[Artur]

Are you sure you're not Artur with a 2nd Username/Account here. You Hungarian's take this stuff way too seriously. :whist: :laugh:


I am listening DD... :laugh:

Artur.

[Pannonicus]

I am listening DD... :laugh:

Artur.

No, we are not the same - in fact, we have never met in person... yet! :laugh:

[Pannonicus]

Another idea:

What about making some area radiologically/chemically contaminated?

In chemical areas, infrastructure/vegetation would be intact, but troops operating in the area would suffer because of wearing MOPP4/keeping vehicles closed. Spotting would be reduced, as well as infantry toughness and morale.

In radioactive areas, infrastructure/vegetation would be damaged (no roads, smouldering forests, volcanic sand-type terrain, etc.), and troops would suffer the same penalties.

I think it would add a lot of fun to the game, as well as would be realistic, given the fact that tactical nukes had been used. I am not proposing them to be used in the campaign, just simulate the after-effects.

[Double Deuce]

This would work BUT I think would be best used in the hex based movement system. That way its easier to ID the areas affected. Interesting idea though and feasible with some effort!

[Double Deuce]

Immobile SAMs would play a role, at least in WP they would surely follow the advancing army. KUB (SA-6) and KRUG (SA-4) systems for sure, but in a few days VOLHOV (SA-2) and NEVA (SA-3) systems could also be deployed close to the front.I am working on ways to incorporate these, especially in the deeper rear areas near airfields. Both sides will have organic ADA units as part of there OOB's so local ADA support should be covered.

[Pannonicus]

Airfields were usually protected by NEVA systems, their minimum altitude of engagement is 20m. If radar is elevated to 25m with the AMU antenna post, then 11m is the minimum altitude.

If you incorporate Hungarian SAM units, they can be from MN 14. Air Defence Missile Reg. Close protection to SAM sites was either provided by ZU-23-2, ZU-2, S-60 cannons, or Strela-2 / Igla MANPADS.

[Double Deuce]

I have removed the attachment from the 1st post that shows the campaign area. As soon as all the WinSPMBT maps are done and pasted together I will post the new image there.

[Double Deuce]

OK, the attachment is back up in the 1st post. Right now it only shows 15 of the 20 WinSPMBT maps. These 15 have been joined together and all roads have been matched from map to map, towns have been named and hills have been identified.

NOTE: By resizing the maps to a 6x8km view the text is distorted in the screenshot. I am working on a way to overlay them in a graphic program so they are readable in COCAT.

[Double Deuce]

OK, all maps have now been finished. I just need to screenshot and paste them into the Operational Map.

[Double Deuce]

The Operational Map is complete ! ! !

BUT since I resized each of the 20 maps to make them fit a 30x32 km area the text was distorted for the locations. While we are waiting for the revised COCAT I will re-paste place names using a graphics program so they will be easily identifiable in COCAT. I will also give each hex an ID #.

[John Osborne]

The Operational Map is complete ! ! !

BUT since I resized each of the 20 maps to make them fit a 30x32 km area the text was distorted for the locations. While we are waiting for the revised COCAT I will re-paste place names using a graphics program so they will be easily identifiable in COCAT. I will also give each hex an ID #.

The revised COCAT 2.2c is ready. Just need to do a final test today and will have it to you by Friday if there isn't any more crashes :D Everything that we talked about is done, except for the overview map issue. That is going to take more time. Send me a private email, I need to ask you some more questions.

John Osborne

[Double Deuce]

The revised COCAT 2.2c is ready. ...... Send me a private email, I need to ask you some more questions.Email sent.

[Double Deuce]

The Operational Map is complete ! ! !
OK, now it is really complete!

I have added the names (easily readable) of all towns and prominent terrain features (rivers and hills) using "white" text. The hex grid has also been overlaid (2km hexes) and each hex given a "yellow" Hex ID #. I have the file down to about 5MB in size (*.jpeg) and will try to upload it somewhere for everyone to DL and review so we can start the deployment of units shortly after the revised COCAT comes out.

FYI - The hexes were numbered so we can track OOB's on the forum (by hex location) AND so those who cannot get COCAT to run can still participate on the operationl level and see whats going on.