View Full Version : Choppers not vulnerable enough?
Panzer-War
23 Jul 05, 02:33
I have come to the conclusion that they need to be more vulnerable to fire. Anyone agrees disagree?
Ex. 1: A Cobra is hovering over a flag 5-10 ft up I drive up and surprise them with a BTR 90 and get at least a dozen rounds from the 30mm gun square into the helicopter. Yet it is still able to take off and come around and eventually kill me.
Ex. 2: One of the transport helicopters for either MEC or China is hovering low over a flag this time I drive up in an M1 tank. I fire the main gun and hit the hovering helicopter dead on as well I peppered them with the 50. cal yet once again it is miraculously able to fly off. :rolleyes:
IMHO the whole damage stuff must be reviewed...
I mean usually play support and have unlocked the PKM and it really sucks when you have to pepper 20 rounds into someone's chest until he falls.
Well, guess in the end it will be all about the mods again, just like BF1942 ended up to be. Must admit a "realism" mod for BF2 wouldn't hurt.
Apart from that: The toughness of the choppers is allright in comparison to the other vehicles in the game. They just should disband the ability to conquer flags in hoover and the inflight repair is crap as well. And I mean with a tank you get the choppers at least after the second shot, not like with the crappy AT kits. These are really only good to kill Humvees and companions.
Panzer-War
23 Jul 05, 11:55
If there going to sit there and hover low to the ground I think they should take 2x the damage they would normally. At the very least if they get hit with the main gun of the tank it should be an instant kill on the helicopter.
Did it take 19 rounds to hit? Accuracy of some of the weapons is questionable in my opinion. Maybe there idea of war and the accuracy of weapons can be explained by the opening video. I have never sat and watched the whole thing but always see everyone fireing Automatic but no one ever gets hit as I recall.
I don't know... While flying the Cobra, I've been taken out with a single shot from a tank. When an IFV starts pelting me, I know I've only got about 8 seconds worth of flying time if I don't evade. I agree, though, the damage model needs re-worked... *ahem* http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29778 *ahem*
Here's the interesting thing about BF2 damage model.
If you're in the helicopter, it takes one shot to kill you from a main gun. If you're in the tank, it takes 2 shots from the main gun to kill the other helicopter.
If you're in the APC, it takes one shot from the Anti-Tank kit to kill you, but 3 if you're the anti-tank guy trying to kill the APC.
Couple things -
1) Different areas of the copter and the tanks will take different numbers of hits to kill. If you hit a tank in the front it will take a lot more hits than a well-placed shot to the rear.
2) I like the damage modelling. If you want a realistic game, go play Americas Army. Just saw in the AA thread that its too easy for experienced players to kill noobs, which makes it not fun....thats what happens with a realistic game - and in war. Like I have said in the past, some of my most fun moments come as a result of the unrealistic damage modelling. Defending a base on the Gulf of Oman from the sandbags, whilst bullets rip around you would not nearly be fun - you would be killed way to quickly. Snipers would rule the game because they could just sit in one hidden spot and pick off unsuspecting people with one-hit kills. I agree some of the stuff is a little wonky (accuracy on the SAWs), but it is all for balancing the game.
Couple things -
1) Different areas of the copter and the tanks will take different numbers of hits to kill. If you hit a tank in the front it will take a lot more hits than a well-placed shot to the rear.
2) I like the damage modelling. If you want a realistic game, go play Americas Army. Just saw in the AA thread that its too easy for experienced players to kill noobs, which makes it not fun....thats what happens with a realistic game - and in war. Like I have said in the past, some of my most fun moments come as a result of the unrealistic damage modelling. Defending a base on the Gulf of Oman from the sandbags, whilst bullets rip around you would not nearly be fun - you would be killed way to quickly. Snipers would rule the game because they could just sit in one hidden spot and pick off unsuspecting people with one-hit kills. I agree some of the stuff is a little wonky (accuracy on the SAWs), but it is all for balancing the game.
Nah, gimme realism over arcade-style play anyday. If you want a realistic game, just wait for some of the mods to come out. The ideal mod, for me, is one that forces players to actually think about tactics - and does away with the kamikaze style of game play.
Nah, gimme realism over arcade-style play anyday. If you want a realistic game, just wait for some of the mods to come out. The ideal mod, for me, is one that forces players to actually think about tactics - and does away with the kamikaze style of game play.
Have you tried Americas Army? It is very realistic, and would probably suit your style more than BF2.
But I can't wait for some mods either.......I want Pirates!
Yeah, I played AA for a while (although not the most recent one) and had a pretty good time with it. The lack of vehicles eventually pushed me elsewhere.
It's all a part of the BF series rock-paper-scissors approach. An ADA vehicle will east a chopper. But an AT weapon doesn't do a lot of damage (neither do tank main gun rounds, HMGs, etc...) realistic? No way. I think the next patch is going to nerf their survivability a lot.
CPangracs
24 Jul 05, 09:21
Here's the problem, gents, and it was the same with the Desert Combat mod for BF2.
Accuracy means an M1 Tank's armor would require a second round in the EXACT same spot as the first from ANY other tank to kill it!
Accuracy means that there would be an AT weapon that destroys ANY APC with one hit!
Accuracy means that the MEC and the PRC would be relatively ineffective and NO ONE would EVER want to play either!!
It's all about the gameplay. Yeah, it's frustrating, but without it, it would be the most boring game imaginable!
Nice points, Curt.
Though, we have never seen the moder Soviet style and modern Chinese equipment in actual action, so it's hard to chekc how they would compare.
On the M1 thing: I think you are right at least for frontal and side armour, though I think a 125mm heat should do at least some damage from behind.
CPangracs
24 Jul 05, 22:48
Nice points, Curt.
Though, we have never seen the moder Soviet style and modern Chinese equipment in actual action, so it's hard to chekc how they would compare.
On the M1 thing: I think you are right at least for frontal and side armour, though I think a 125mm heat should do at least some damage from behind.
It does, believe me!
You ever tried it? :crosseye:
Part of it is that you don't actually see damage until vehicle health is down to 4/10 or something like that (at which point you see smoke). So a hit to a helicopter may take away half, but not show many signs of damage.
CPangracs
25 Jul 05, 08:21
You ever tried it? :crosseye:
I was talking about in the game, but yeah, I've tried it.:laugh:
Sounds really interesting... :bandit:
CPangracs
25 Jul 05, 12:29
Sounds really interesting... :bandit:
That's gross. I shouldn't expect anything less from you, though! :eek:
That's gross. I shouldn't expect anything less from you, though! :eek:
huh?
ER_Chaser
07 Aug 05, 10:55
indeed those choppers are superstrong ... two close range grenade or two rockets direct hit, they can still fly? I do not know ... but this happens quite a bit.
However, two stingers will definitely bring it down (seems to me at least). But two stingers can hardly damage anything on land. So what is the logic here?
Panzer-War
07 Aug 05, 12:32
My experience with the stingers is that all it takes is for the target to fire flares and it will pretty much guarantee a miss. I think some players are learning effective ways to deal with them it seems to me if you target the passengers first it can be fatal to the helicopter and get rid of engineers in it. Unless they are in the same squad and the Sqd leaders is piloting it will at least take some time for them to respawn in the helicopter. I not long ago managed to take down a helicopter with 2 shots from the grenade launcher not sure if it was already damaged or not though.
DevilDawg
07 Aug 05, 13:22
The most annoying thing in BF2 is the SAW...
I mean...geez... The tracers fly all around someone 10 feet in front of you, they turn around and shoot ya.
Also, why the hell is the M95 so WEAK? It's a .50 round hitting you in the chest!
(BTW I love cranes now :D )
The most annoying thing in BF2 is the SAW...
Also, why the hell is the M95 so WEAK? It's a .50 round hitting you in the chest!
(BTW I love cranes now :D )
It never fails. 1 minute on if you put an AT round into the end of the crane you're bound to get a sniper with it. I watched the same guy die about 5 times the other night on that thing.
DevilDawg
07 Aug 05, 17:45
It never fails. 1 minute on if you put an AT round into the end of the crane you're bound to get a sniper with it. I watched the same guy die about 5 times the other night on that thing.
Yeah, guys were getting mad and trying to Kick me out because I just sat on a roof and picked them off with the AT missle as they setup in the crane.
CPangracs
08 Aug 05, 08:44
Last night I was on the "CTD" clan server. They had a full chopper with all of their guys. I put 5 AT rounds into the engine housing as they hovered above my flag, and another guy put 5 AT rounds in the same place - we alternated with no more than 2 seconds in between each hit.
They just hovered there like it was no big deal then flew away after taking the flag. It was amazing, and I destroyed my keyboard after that happened.
I have been praying that this is fixed in 1.03! Seriously! I asked God to influence DICE in their decisions about what needs to be fixed! ;)
Choppers really do need tweaking. As do a few other things, sniper rifles, etc...
I wish they would have learned form the C-4 issue with the animation. I lost count of how many times I got killed while my Chinese guy was unfolding the stock of his weapon.
A few EA guys stalk my forums and we have passed similiar issues on to them.
ER_Chaser
08 Aug 05, 10:09
Good to know we have the same problems... now uit definitely seems like a bug in the damage calculation for choppers.
DevilDawg
08 Aug 05, 10:18
Sniper rifles make me mad, I mean the M4 in full auto is just as accurate as the SVD, M24 and M95.
When I have the crosshairs over a guys chest at 100m, while hes standing still capturing a flag, it should hit him in the chest and not a few feet to his right or left.
BTW how do we look at our scores, kills/deaths/etc.?
ER_Chaser
08 Aug 05, 10:35
oh yet, I do not feel like that sniper rifle has any edge for me yet, but I thought it was mainly because of my skill. After all, I only tried it a couple of times and did not understand how to aim yet.
My kill/death ratio is absolutely embarassing :D ... it is like 1:10 (1 kill for every 10 deaths :D )... lol..
DevilDawg
08 Aug 05, 10:37
Not much aiming to it, just point at them, hope that the bullet doesn't act like a BB and see what happens.
Good to know we have the same problems... now uit definitely seems like a bug in the damage calculation for choppers.
Or armor is just too high.
It's all a part of the BF series rock-paper-scissors approach. An ADA vehicle will east a chopper. But an AT weapon doesn't do a lot of damage (neither do tank main gun rounds, HMGs, etc...) realistic? No way. I think the next patch is going to nerf their survivability a lot.
Tunguska is weak. Better off with a .50 or two. Either way this will be looked at, whether anything changes will remain to be seen.
Panzer-War
08 Aug 05, 12:37
Last night I was on the "CTD" clan server. They had a full chopper with all of their guys. I put 5 AT rounds into the engine housing as they hovered above my flag, and another guy put 5 AT rounds in the same place - we alternated with no more than 2 seconds in between each hit.
They just hovered there like it was no big deal then flew away after taking the flag. It was amazing, and I destroyed my keyboard after that happened.
I have been praying that this is fixed in 1.03! Seriously! I asked God to influence DICE in their decisions about what needs to be fixed! ;)
I would suggest shooting at the passengers next time. I am willing to bet there were 2 or 3 engineers sitting inside repairing it.
ER_Chaser
08 Aug 05, 12:53
That is another silly point then :D even to repair a tank, you have to stop and get out. How can you repair a flying chopper on board?? :D
If someone is sitting in the back of the blackhawk as an engineer, they can use the wrench on the helicopter.
CPangracs
08 Aug 05, 17:40
That is another silly point then :D even to repair a tank, you have to stop and get out. How can you repair a flying chopper on board?? :D
I know quite a few people who would make great in-flight missile repairpersons!!:laugh:
jayedub7423
26 Aug 05, 20:04
Here's the interesting thing about BF2 damage model.
If you're in the helicopter, it takes one shot to kill you from a main gun. If you're in the tank, it takes 2 shots from the main gun to kill the other helicopter.
If you're in the APC, it takes one shot from the Anti-Tank kit to kill you, but 3 if you're the anti-tank guy trying to kill the APC.
lol, exactly. and i thought i was the only one who had this problem.
personally, the anti-air rockets need to be stronger and more accurate. or, an anti-air kit like in BFV.
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