Making assaults /overruns lethal

[John Given]

Hello everyone. The reason that I post this is because of some recent games I have played with an accomplished member here, namely Abatis.

As it turns out, he is decidedly lethal when conducting overruns (using vehicles) and close-assaults (using infantry). Every single time he conducts one of these attacks, he captures all of the units in the hex, even when my units have a way out and/or are NOT completely surrounded.

I know that

1. Dispersed units are twice as easy to assault, as are fatigued units. So a dispersed, fatigued unit is FOUR times easier to assault.

2. If the assault comes from different directions, retreat/capture is more likely.

Abatis recommended I ask around the forum for opinions - so here I am. I mainly want you guys to share your wisdom. Are there any special tactics you use to safeguard your units from capture?

Abatis hinted that capture can be much more likely if all units are dispersed, and enemy units surround the hex, BUT at a distance of several hexes, *because dispersed units will not retreat toward an enemy,* and will tend to be captured instead, or at least that was my impression.

If this is true, then enemy units have a kind of 'zone of control' that extends to the range that they can 'intimitate' dispersed enemy units.

Sound off folks, cuz' I'm rather clueless at the moment!

P.S. Please feel free to sound off about double-timing your infantry. Do you guys use it? I admit I'm a ruthless slave-driver, working my poor infantry to the breaking point. In past games, I noticed that Abatis was always capturing my infantry easily, and I suspected this was the cause. But now he's capturing my non-fatigued infantry - help!

;)

[Jason Petho]

Ahh, Brian, your lessons went well! *laughs*

Excellent to hear.

When I return home, I will upload a pdf that offers some insight, graphically, into conducting successful assaults.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Abatis]

Ahh, Brian, your lessons went well! *laughs*

Excellent to hear.

When I return home, I will upload a pdf that offers some insight, graphically, into conducting successful assaults.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

Yes Sinsei, the lessons have gone well ;)

Jason will be able to clear this up for you John, and everybody else. I must say, I'm good at excecuting the capture/assault, but not as good as preventing it. The only thing I could say there, is to defend in depth- but not to the point of fat stacks so that you still have a viable retreat option. You can definitely "channel" an enemy's retreat, and should try to force him into bad situations this way, ultimately hoping for captures. Thats a fast way to get points, capturing the whole disrupted force in one hex. If they can't retreat -they will give up! So just as important as firing for disruption and massing for the assault, you have to set up to deny viable retreats, be that full surround or partial surround at a distance. You should have seen me losing nearly whole Battalions at a time (in mulitiple assaults within a turn) to Jason at Izyum, or watched me Checking out the Blitzkrieg in Checking the Blitzkrieg where he schooled me there too. I think I have about 10 consequetive maj. D.'s vs Jason (thankgod he doesn't care about ladder stats- I'd be in the cellar!) Getting stomped on can really be helpful..its like excercise!

[John Given]

Thnks guys. I'm eagerly awaiting any info any people at the forum can share.

By the way, the reason I still divide the type of assaults into 'overrun' (for vehicles) and 'close-assaults' (for infantry) is because it was drilled into my head during my panzerblitz/panzerleader days. They made rules distinctions for different types of assaults, so I guess you could say it's an old habit of mine.

Later! :cheeky:

[Cheech Marin]

What I know is that if you can position friendly units so that the enemy is surrounded from two sides that are opposites, that is positioned north and south of the enemy for example, and you succeed in the assault, those units that get assaulted cannot retreat and get captured, as long as there aren't any enemy units that are adjacent to the hex getting assaulted. If there are any enemy units adjacent to the unit you're planning to assault, the enemy will just retreat, while still probably taking some casualties.

[Jason Petho]

Hmm... was going to upload the Assault Basics PDF but unfortunately it's too large.

If anyone wants it, leave a note here with email address and I will send it to you.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[John Given]

I could use that good ol' pdf Jason.

Send it to lamorak@bellsouth.net

Thanks my friend. :)

[Krink]

Hmm... was going to upload the Assault Basics PDF but unfortunately it's too large.

If anyone wants it, leave a note here with email address and I will send it to you.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho
Have you tried zipping it first?

cheers,
Ray

[Krink]

I doubt I can shed more light on this than the file Jason is going to send you. But people have told me I'm deadly and capturing units on a hex. Basicly...I just clear out the units behind the hex I want to capture, unless there are many units on the ajoining hexes, then a retreat would create an overstack, so that works to my advantage. You only need a unit in the hex behind the hex you are attacking exactly opposite from the one you are attacking from, providing there are no enemy units on any of the ajoining hexes to the one you are trying to capture. And of course...it is always best to have the units you are trying to capture to be disrupted, or at least a type of unit that can't retreat...like an AT or artillery unit.

You can also be sucessful by having units on either side of the hex you are going to attack positioned in the rear most adjoining hexes. This works very well also.

To avoid being captured...I tend to try and kepp units in as many adjoing hexes to my units as possible. That allows you units a better chance to retreat.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Ray

[Jason Petho]

Have you tried zipping it first?

cheers,
Ray

Of course, but the file is still nearly 500kb.

The nerve, eh? *smiles*

Hope you're well
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Gnrl Confusion]

Of course, but the file is still nearly 500kb.

The nerve, eh? *smiles*

Hope you're well
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho


500kb isn't too big for broadband or dialup, however it's considered polite to mark the size so the person getting it can decide. Also, the PDF can probably be made smaller, especially if it's just going to be read on screen. Send it to me if you feel like it and I'll see what I can do.

[Jason Petho]

500kb isn't too big for broadband or dialup, however it's considered polite to mark the size so the person getting it can decide. Also, the PDF can probably be made smaller, especially if it's just going to be read on screen. Send it to me if you feel like it and I'll see what I can do.

For attaching to the message board, there appears to be a limitation a little shy of 200kb, hence the issue even when zipped.

But, if you provide an address, I can send you the file to tinker with.

Hope you're well
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Gnrl Confusion]

For attaching to the message board, there appears to be a limitation a little shy of 200kb, hence the issue even when zipped.

But, if you provide an address, I can send you the file to tinker with.

Hope you're well
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho


bracken@warwick.net
daveb@lakefrontmedia.com

[Jason Petho]

And with Dave's brilliance I can now load a much smaller PDF.

This PDF is a graphic introduction to the basics of assaulting.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Gnrl Confusion]

And with Dave's brilliance I can now load a much smaller PDF.


I'm printing this out and stapling it to my wife's pillow.

[John Given]

Thanks for sending that file Jason. ;)

Krink, thank you for the good advice. :hail:

Apparently what is happening is this; in a normal movement situaltion, disrupted units cannot move toward an enemy unit, unless that movement is toward a more distant enemy.

Assaults are a bit different; if the disrupted unit is within 6 hexes or so of enemies on all sides, even if some are not adjacent, the unit will likely be captured. The program is basically saying, "you cannot move toward an enemy, AT ALL, so you must be eliminated." :dead: :skull:

Now, I just have to practice on a victim :devil: to see what the nuances of this technique are (i.e., Abatis seems to have large gaps in his assault 'cordon,' always captures, and units never get away. I practiced a few times on a computer opponent, but the enemy usually 'bled out' of my attack cordon. Looks like I need more practice!

P.S. Ensayne knows this trick as well as Abatis - he took alot of my tanks last game using this method. :hurt:

Later friends. :)