View Full Version : ALLIED Thread: Operation Sealion
Generals, it is as we both feared and expected - the Germans have begun Operation Seelowe - the invasion of England.
To give you a more complete understanding of our situation, I'll begin the briefing by outlining our initial defensive positions, prior to the German attacks.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/53(al)uk.jpg
Initial defensive positions. Note the 3 most likely targets for German supply, the ports of Plymouth, Southampton and Dover, which are indicated with a red border.
At this point, there was little to do but dig in and wait. Drills and unit rotations kept the troops sharp, and as it turned out, we didn't have long to wait for Jerry to make his move.
Fallshirmjager units opened the offensive, with two airdrops aimed at blowing bridges and disrupting the rail lines around Oxford and Shrewsbury. The Brandenburg regiment was organzied into battalions, and dropped into mostly unguarded airfields in southeastern England. A further two divisions of FJ landed in the same area, just west of Norwich and the surrouding ports, isolating the two divisions of coastal batteries and the defenders garrisoning them.
As we scrambled to respond, the Royal Navy began moving into the Channel, attempting to intercept the German invasion craft making for the port of Norwich. The RAF was the first to make contact with the Kriegsmarine and Regia Marina, but very little progress was made at interdicting the landing craft, as the Luftwaffe was flying full support, as well as transferring squadrons of fighters to their newly acquired bases in the UK. We had limited success bombing the airfields as the German aircraft landed to refuel, as our own resources were stretched to the breaking point, attempting to be everywhere at once.
The RN was able to close with the combined Axis fleets, but not before the amphibious landing took place in the port just south of Norwich. Unfortunately, preperatory attacks by their navy and airpower unhinged our defense in this area, and we were able to offer only limited resistance as two korps of infantry pushed ashore. Within one day of landing, the German forces had completely surrounded Norwich, and made the final assault on the cut-off defenders.
To their credit, our boys fought bravely, and virtually to the last man; but it was a doomed position, and they were unable to cause much damage to the Germans. As our units around the island received their orders and moved towards the Axis beachhead, the Germans solidified their position, digging in roughly 25 kilometers west of Norwich in a north-south line extending 75 kilometres. A brigade of howitzers was able to make it ashore, and is providing support to the front line. Here is how the situation stood as we made ready our counterattack:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/54(al)uk.jpg
German position in southeastern England just prior to the Allied counterattack.
Initial response from our forces saw DeGaulle take two brigades of Free French armor with supporting elements north towards Shrewsbury, and after a brief engagement, they forced the Fallshirmjager regiment in to the mountainous regious deep in Wales. This unit is worn down to virtually nothing, and with little chance of any type of reinforcement or resupply, we expect to force their surrender or destroy them within the week.
Likewise the FJ regiment at Oxford - this unit was overrun by the VIII UK Corps, and what few men survived the battle have been taken prisoner. It must be noted, however, that this operation, while destroying irreplaceable elite German units, was still a success for the Axis. The purpose of these airdrops was simply to buy time, and force a response from us. In this, Jerry was successful, as we were simply unable to ignore the threat these units posed. But the diversion of these forces from the main beachhead at Norwich was still a painful order for our Supreme Commander to issue.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/54(al)uk4.jpg
Fallshirmjager threat contained in central England.
Our closest forces - the Lend-Lease and VII Armored Divisions, and a division from the III UK Corps - approached the German line, but were limited to forcing the Brandenburg battalions out of the front-most airfields as they took position and awaited further reinforcement.
In response to the landings in Norwich, a small fleet with some brave Free French volunteers was immediately dispatched, and set sail around Scapa Flow, attempting to skirt behind the main sea battle taking place to the southwest of Norwich. As the men bravely pushed ashore, several battleships were able to break away from the Home Fleet and provide additional bombardment.
In conjunction with a spur-of-the-moment aerial bombardment, launched from the newly recaptured airfields close to Norwich itself, the valiant French were able to force their way ashore, and hold the port despite fierce German counterattacks. But Jerry wasn't able to divert sufficient resources to pushing the French into the sea, as new arrivals on the front itself kept his forces in their prepared defensive positions.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/54(al)uk2.jpg
Norwich retaken, as British units take position opposite the main German line. Continuing additions to our forces here prevent the Germans from making a concentrated attack on the Free French in Norwich, which allows them to secure the port for the time being.
The constant arrival of reinforcements game the Supreme Commander an enviable amount of flexibility as the counterattack began to take shape. The decision was made to concentrate the forces to the south, in an effort to break this end of the German line and take back the port. While we are not yet strong enough to push the Germans into the sea outright, if we can control both of the ports, forcing them to attempt another amphibious invasion, while at the same time maneuvering the cut-off German forces closer and closer to a true surround, we should be able to finish them and secure the island.
There is some risk in this plan, as there is the possibility that the very forces we use to cut-off the Axis beachhead could in turn be cut-off. Move, counter-move. But the very possibility of ending this, here and now, is too good to pass up. Despite the misgivings of a few advisors, the Supreme Commander orders the attacks to proceed. He feels that waiting for further reinforcements will likely see the second wave of German units show up - this chance must be taken now, or it will be lost.
With the naval battle going our way, all ships that can possibly be spared are ordered to support the bombardment of the port, and all available tactical bombers converge, bringing the maximum amount of support fire to bear as possible.
Our ground forces are able to push back the German infantry korps holding the southern end of the line as the bombardment of the port itself continues. Incredibly fierce fighting sees several units forced to withdraw and reorganize on either side of the front; it is obvious that all involved know this one is for keeps, and no effort is spared. The Germans are able to repulse repeated attacks on the centre of the line, denying us the key position we require to wrest control of the port, and bring the French unit back into supply. This position would also enable us to complete the surround of all remaining German forces in England, so it is little wonder that they fight so desperately to hold.
The final assault by our forces is something of a mixed blessing. As we were unable to take the centre of the line, we tried to push into the last remaining German port nonetheless, which would give us a complete encirlement of the German forces, but in a somewhat exposed position. It was felt to be worth the risks, as we would have a single continuous front, reconnecting the Free French with our line, and denying the Germans any free landings for their reinforcements.
In this we were successful. We took the port, but in doing so, the weakened defenders charged with holding the exposed positions in our line were forced back by intense German attacks. We denied the ground to the Germans, but the units were forced to reform closer to the vicinity to the port itself. In other words, the Germans are indeed denied a free landing, but it is now a race to see which force will cut off the other. As a picture is worth a thousand words, Generals, allow me to show you the positions, as they now stand.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/54(al)uk3.jpg
All ports and beaches are back under British control, but there is obvious potential for the Germans to isolate the port's defense, if they can advance southwards.
(At this point, an aide known to be the staff liason to the Supreme Commander walks into the room, and has a whispered consultation with the briefing officer).
Forgive me, Generals, but I have recent news from the front. The Royal Navy, with heroic support from the RAF has won the day! The Germans have limped home with what remains of their fleet, but virtually none of their remaining vessels are sea-worthy. A detailed loss account follows below:
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/features/ea_ics/navlos.jpg
Forgive me, Generals, but I have recent news from the front. The Royal Navy, with heroic support from the RAF has won the day! The Germans have limped home with what remains of their fleet, but virtually none of their remaining vessels are sea-worthy.
Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves:
Britons never will be slaves. :whist:
Knighthoods & peerages to all involved. :banana:
Europe Aflame
05 Jul 05, 15:29
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Signal%20Logo2.jpg
CROSS CHANNEL INVASION!!
Massive naval battle in the English Channel.
German Troops land at major British ports.
OKW announces "Imminent victory"
In a series of spectacular assaults on enemy fortifications, German troops have commenced "Operation Sealion" - the invasion of the British Isles.
Initial reports from the front lines indicate mass panic amongst ill-prepared enemy troops and sweeping advances across the English countryside.
Defences are crumbling everywhere as hardened crack Wehrmacht soldiers launch brave and unstoppable attacks on strongpoints all along the south coast and further inland.
Click on the following pictures to enlarge them.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Fleet1small.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Fleet1.jpg)
German Battleships engage the Royal Navy picket line at close range. It's a hit!
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Destroyersmall.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Destroyer.jpg)
Meanwhile, patrolling U-Boats screen the invasion fleet from attack and engage enemy Destroyers.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Chutesmall.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Chute.jpg)
Above in the clouds, Paratroopers descend in their hundreds to seize key objectives...
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Marchsmall.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/March.jpg)
...for the regular Infantry! Having landed at the coast they swiftly move inland, their spirits high and their will indomitable.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Dorniersmall.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Dornier.jpg)
Further inland, bombers conduct hit-and-run attacks to knock out enemy lines of communication and heavy troop concentrations.
http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Wearysmall.jpg (http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/Andrew/EA/Weary.jpg)
The result - dazed and confused British soldiers surrender to the might of the German Army.
Forgive me, Generals, but I have recent news from the front. The Royal Navy, with heroic support from the RAF has won the day! The Germans have limped home with what remains of their fleet, but virtually none of their remaining vessels are sea-worthy. A detailed loss account follows below:
And now Goering will tell Hitler he can supply all those doomed Germans by air. :nuts:
Secret Agent
17 Jul 05, 00:25
An idea....could we let the German's "hold out" so that they send more forces over, and wait till they get as many units as we can handle on Britian, and then squash them? That would leave less of the German Army for other stuff.....
An idea....could we let the German's "hold out" so that they send more forces over, and wait till they get as many units as we can handle on Britian, and then squash them? That would leave less of the German Army for other stuff.....
Don't want to do that. If the Germans were to breakout; we'd run the real possibility of losing England.
Speaking as a raw recruit, could we just let the Krauts wither on the vine awhile, using the RAF & RN to keep them cut off from resupply? We could then use the time to build up our own land-based units for defense in case the Germans would gamble and try another landing somewhere. At a time of our choosing we could then dispose of the remaining German troops in England.
Speaking as a raw recruit, could we just let the Krauts wither on the vine awhile, using the RAF & RN to keep them cut off from resupply? We could then use the time to build up our own land-based units for defense in case the Germans would gamble and try another landing somewhere. At a time of our choosing we could then dispose of the remaining German troops in England.
Welcome, Granite. That is a good idea. Our idea should be to Contain: the units already in England.
Control: the resupply of the Germans here.
Obliterate: the Germans at a time and place of OUR choosing.
I'd hope the General in the field can accomplish that. I'd also suggest to the PM that he ask the President of the United States for a fast resupply and reinforcements.
An idea....could we let the German's "hold out" so that they send more forces over, and wait till they get as many units as we can handle on Britian, and then squash them? That would leave less of the German Army for other stuff.....
That *could* be done, but the risks far outweigh the gains, in my opinion. As my Grandpappy always used to say: "Don't gamble what you cannot afford to lose..."
Speaking as a raw recruit, could we just let the Krauts wither on the vine awhile, using the RAF & RN to keep them cut off from resupply? We could then use the time to build up our own land-based units for defense in case the Germans would gamble and try another landing somewhere. At a time of our choosing we could then dispose of the remaining German troops in England.
A second landing is a very real possibility, and do not think that for even a second the Supreme Commander has forgotten this fact. But, imho, clearing the Isle of all Axis units is the primary objective; everything else is a sideshow at this point. Doing anything that could work at cross-purposes to this goal is like shooting yourself in the foot.
I have a half-baked idea I would like to share. After crushing Sealion, I propose a Allied landing on the Continent, but not in France. Assuming U.S. forces would be joining in this venture, I believe a landing on the Atlantic coast of Spain would be of great benefit. Here is why: Landing in Spain would help us keep Gibraltar (or get it back). It would also take some pressure off North Africa since Franco would be forced to recall his troops to defend their own country. A Continental rallying point would be established for the French (and any other captive peoples) to go to join the fight vs. the Nazis. Even Spainiards not happy with Franco and/or the Axis could join with us here. On a diplomatic note, maybe even the USSR could be persuaded to "rattle its sabers", causing the Germans some anxiety, or even to join in the war itself since the USSR supported the Loyalist cause in 1937. I would gladly like to see all opinions on this-after all I am only a "raw recruit"!
Secret Agent
20 Jul 05, 06:29
It would also take some pressure off North Africa since Franco would be forced to recall his troops to defend their own country.
And our ships can sink them on the way over! :devil:
I have a half-baked idea I would like to share. After crushing Sealion, I propose a Allied landing on the Continent, but not in France. Assuming U.S. forces would be joining in this venture, I believe a landing on the Atlantic coast of Spain would be of great benefit. Here is why: Landing in Spain would help us keep Gibraltar (or get it back). It would also take some pressure off North Africa since Franco would be forced to recall his troops to defend their own country. A Continental rallying point would be established for the French (and any other captive peoples) to go to join the fight vs. the Nazis. Even Spainiards not happy with Franco and/or the Axis could join with us here. On a diplomatic note, maybe even the USSR could be persuaded to "rattle its sabers", causing the Germans some anxiety, or even to join in the war itself since the USSR supported the Loyalist cause in 1937. I would gladly like to see all opinions on this-after all I am only a "raw recruit"!
While I do agree that the overall strategy is sound, I need to point out that it is currently only June 1940 - a D-Day style landing at this point is doomed to fail. The US has only just 'awakened from her slumber', and has only a small handful of units available - all of them already seeing active duty. The Brits comprise the rest of the Allied forces, and they're all defending the island, or guarding Egypt/Gibraltar/Malta. The only offensive currently underway is in West Africa, and is a combined effort from both the US and the Brits. Headway is being made, but it is a close thing, and if the Axis powers were not so distracted by their attempt at Sealion, it is very likely they could shut this operation down in a matter of a couple weeks.
A nuisance raid might be pulled off, but the risks at this time would be considerable. It is something to ponder, however!
On a side note, I'd like to point out that if you read the first thread in the forum here, it will point you to all the episodes (articles) so far; also, if you change the options at the bottom of the forum to show all messages from the beginning (or the last year, etc), more threads will show up than are currently displayed in the default forum view. This will present you the opportunity to catch up on everything that has happened before you arrived!
As I noticed that their battle fleet is all but gone, can we place our remaining battleships/cruisers and a fiew destroyers, that are not protecting the fleet from u-boats, to shore bombard and thus make some parts of albion a living hell to the Germans, to make an airport attack with the fifteen inch guns on an axis forward field is another thing that we could do with our navy with much less sence, oh, and spare the swordfish for u-boat patrol...
p.s. Where the heck are the American Emergency aid battalions, armed with the honey tanks, and the 37mm anti tank cannnons, which will take out even a panzer III. And with canister shot, take out a bunched up platoon! We need them!!!
Plead, beg, for god knows just as FDR, that Hitler, who has many sympathizers in south America, will be coming to get rid of the 'bloodjew' so rampant in America, please remind them of this!!!
Whatever the case, we are in dire straights my friends, what of the tens of thousands of home guards???? Shurely the Lufwaffe lost at least a thousand or two of it's plane's, it cannot be bombing everywhere, and our bombers can bomb their ferry ships of supplies, with Berlin just for good measure!
We are in mortal danger! Action now, kill a german today!!!
Thanks for the heads-up on all the other threads. Somehow I missed the West African offensive going on now. I felt that it would be helpful for Allied morale to try a surprise landing, but I didn't realize how weakened we really are! Do we have anything to offer Joe Stalin as an incentive to get the Red Army into action?
Thanks for the heads-up on all the other threads. Somehow I missed the West African offensive going on now. I felt that it would be helpful for Allied morale to try a surprise landing, but I didn't realize how weakened we really are! Do we have anything to offer Joe Stalin as an incentive to get the Red Army into action?
Mi friend, now is the time to pray for a miracle, and start a fortification of the hills, and mountains of Wales, this will be a nest of hellish resistance, where the US can drop OSS troops when wanted, the terrain is like Yugoslavia, mountanous and forrested...
Also, Scotland, is another candidate, unless we manage to stop the basandos!
I mean we must have half a million men with at least a rifle, and a bunch in there with maxim mg's, bren guns, anti tank guns, tanks, and even some planes, and please dont forget the royal navy, I mean we have swept the kriegsmarines surface fleet off the map!
If the US navy would join us now to hunt the u-boats that number only about fifty in my count, we could even do some shore bombarding of certain bit's of shoreline that has not great shore guns...
Also, try to succer the wermacht into coastal regions, and let 'em have it with all the guns in the navy!!!
The RAF must shurely have something left, and I pray that the squadrons could rest in the outer hebrides, or Iceland!
Cheer up, I mean we have not lost hundreds of thousands men, we still have a good army, and let us for god's sake get jiffy on the project that blechley park was about to crack when the invasion came...!?!? This should give us a great supremacy in putting our meager means to the right disposal points... Also, I wonder what the US, or Stalin would like to hear about the rumours of an attack on the Soviet Union next summer???
Act, or we shall be in the Breckons with a bren...
I agree with all of you; let us spare no effort to wipe out Sealion as soon as we can without jeopardizing our position elsewhere in England. As long as the Royal Navy & Air Force control the sea and air around us we have the luxury of dictating to the Germans what WE want to do for a change. Let's rotate a few inexperienced units into the fray to get them "blooded" before finishing off the invaders so when we do start our counter-offensive we will have units ready to go-not green like the US GI's!
Gentlemen, I do not have a formal briefing prepared for you yet, but news is filtering in from the front that the Germans have opened a second beachhead - a port which they are able to supply. This is dire news.
As more information becomes available, I will prepare a report, and present it to you with all due haste.
I agree with all of you; let us spare no effort to wipe out Sealion as soon as we can without jeopardizing our position elsewhere in England. As long as the Royal Navy & Air Force control the sea and air around us we have the luxury of dictating to the Germans what WE want to do for a change. Let's rotate a few inexperienced units into the fray to get them "blooded" before finishing off the invaders so when we do start our counter-offensive we will have units ready to go-not green like the US GI's!
So much for luxury! I look forward to the next briefing with much anticipation. This may be an opportunity to really cramp the German's style if we can play this right!
michammer
27 Jul 05, 09:15
Gentlemen, I do not have a formal briefing prepared for you yet, but news is filtering in from the front that the Germans have opened a second beachhead - a port which they are able to supply. This is dire news.
As more information becomes available, I will prepare a report, and present it to you with all due haste.
Do we have any forces held in reserve that can be moved to contain and destroy this new beachead? Can our forces near Norwich contain the enemy forces there?
Gentlemen, as the americans say, it's 'make or brake' time!
All avalable forces to crush the new beach head!
If it is in a port then it is a town, and if they have tanks, our infantry can inflict untold punishment, also any remnants of the royal navy could try blockading the port, and the raf unit's that are left cover the ships...
Meanwhile the units left, should have minimum losses put on for some troops and try to lead them into the hills of Wales, that is country where killing tanks is easier... Also it is out of the way, and if the blooming Americans! Excuse me, if they come, they can land in northern ireland and Scotland, which will be our national redoubts, then a counter attack to crush the worn out nazi's bashing arround the brekons in Northern wales...
Something to that effect, do NOT let them have the flat east coast of Britain!!!
I am concerned about the Irish too. I can just see them licking their chops over Northern Ireland as Britain is fighting for its life, and if German diplomats are on the ball they could offer Belfast as an incentive to allow Germany to put troops and planes in Ireland. That would put any convoy from the USA in much more danger than it would be right now, maybe even suceeding in cutting England off entirely (something the U-boats are trying right now!). We need a victory to keep the neutrals, "neutral"!
I am concerned about the Irish too. I can just see them licking their chops over Northern Ireland as Britain is fighting for its life, and if German diplomats are on the ball they could offer Belfast as an incentive to allow Germany to put troops and planes in Ireland. That would put any convoy from the USA in much more danger than it would be right now, maybe even suceeding in cutting England off entirely (something the U-boats are trying right now!). We need a victory to keep the neutrals, "neutral"!
Or perhaps it is time to realize that the nazi's have swallowed almost all the neutrals in their way... Ireland! Unite with your Celtic brethren, and get the Yanks in, fast!!! The protestants will be the first to go into Britain anyway, so there is a 'cunning scheme' for the REALPOLITIK players there too...
All English speaking, and law abiding people unite or perish in an abyss of pagan flame and darkness that will surpass all crimes committed by civilized human tenfold for starters!!!
Forward christian soldiers... :angry:
Secret Agent
08 Aug 05, 13:42
Yeah, all you Irish folks, listen up! Remember how the Scots helped you against the Brits? Well, this time we need your help FOR the Brits. Please? :D
Yeah, all you Irish folks, listen up! Remember how the Scots helped you against the Brits? Well, this time we need your help FOR the Brits. Please? :D
ABSOLUTELY! OH Danny boy, hear them bren guns roaring, when winter comes, Germans will kill no Scots again...
Hey FDR! Could you loan a carrier task force to the British Isles for a little while? Just one? While the US Army may be a little behind in getting onto a wartime footing, surely the Navy could send a task force to England to help the Royal Navy cut off the new threat from supply by sea and air (wherever it is!). Sending a carrier group now may help prevent having the Germans send a invasion fleet to the Chesapeake Bay! :)
Secret Agent
11 Aug 05, 21:20
Sending a carrier group now may help prevent having the Germans send a invasion fleet to the Chesapeake Bay! :)
And if they did that, it would hurt your chances for re-election! :devil: So...do send the carrier! (And all available troops!)
Gents, I'm just returning from my holidays, so updates were nonexistent for awhile. I'll have something for you guys after the weekend!
captainsennef
13 Aug 05, 14:02
Gentlemen, we are already discussing what the Amricans can mean to the Allied cause, but I would like to suggest we look East as well!! Surely the Russians do not want to see the Germans having a solid beachhead on the British islands, let alone finish the UK off. It would mean the end of a German two-front war and allow the Nazi's to concentrate al they have to the East, where they always wanted to expand, just read Mein Kampf!!
So, is there any way we can induce Stavka to make a diversionary action now, before the Brits have been defeated and the Russians have to face the German juggernaut all by themselves!
Any ideas what Russian action would relieve pressure from the British front and would be acceptable to the Soviets?
Gents, I'm just returning from my holidays, so updates were nonexistent for awhile. I'll have something for you guys after the weekend!
Whew! I was worried that the Germans captured Allied HQ! :laugh:
So, is there any way we can induce Stavka to make a diversionary action now, before the Brits have been defeated and the Russians have to face the German juggernaut all by themselves!
Any ideas what Russian action would relieve pressure from the British front and would be acceptable to the Soviets?
I agree, Captainsennef, we must get the USSR into this war (on our side!) ASAP! Maybe we could offer Stalin some territory in Eastern Europe taken from Axis Allies?
I agree, Captainsennef, we must get the USSR into this war (on our side!) ASAP! Maybe we could offer Stalin some territory in Eastern Europe taken from Axis Allies?
Promise Stalin Iraq, and split Persia with perhaps the North Western district of India!
Get them T-34s convoyed into Scapa Flow!!! With them good fighting Soviet Naval Infantry!
Give Singapore to the US for planes now!!!
Start ferry flying B-24s, and B-17s for added punch! Also, I belive that the P-40 fleet could be given to us via the greenland, iceland, North Ireland hop? How soon is the P-38 ready???
Make asap Hurricanes, they take so much less raw materials.
By the way, how are the gas rules going??? What about the biological (anthrax), weapons in airbourne (gas) form that have been developed on that Scottish island that is off bounds for all exept the team who works there???
(This is true stuff, is there factors for it in the game)...?
captainsennef
17 Aug 05, 10:24
The Russians have wanted a port that doesn't freeze in winter for centuries. Promising them Persia probably will bring them over.
The following may be acceptable for the Russians: They can move into the Northern third of Persia right away; upon first Red Army troop concentrations against the Germans, they can help themselves to the middle part of Persia. Upon fighting contact with the Nazi's they can take the last third.
As the Kriegsmarine seems to been annihilated I'm toying with the idea of suggesting a Russian amphibious landing on the Baltic coast North of Berlin, beachheads being protected by Soviet paratroops (in 1936 they had a lot of those, they should still have them and willing to put them to good use). At the same time the Red Army should move into East Prussia follow the Baltic coast line and link up with the amphibious and airborne forces. This should be a very nasty wake up call for the Berliners.
Of course this plan only works if we can make it sufficient attractive for the Russians to attack Germany, but this carrot: (Persia) and stick (face and fight Garmany alone, without Western Allies) approach will be sufficient in my opinion.
captainsennef
12 Sep 05, 04:24
I couldn't help noticing that the last entry in this thread is from half August (almost a month ago). I wonder what is going on. Judging by the date of the last entry from the other side, the Axis also seem to suffer from the same inertia.
It would be a shame if the game slowly grinds to a halt, just when things really get interesting.
captainsennef
12 Sep 05, 05:10
Just surfed ACG/SZO having posted my previous reply and saw that the new November issue will have an article on Red Army paratroopers in WWII. Looking forward to this also as it happens to be the branch I had such ambitious plans for: landing them on German Baltic coast beachheads, to secure the seaborne landings of Soviet Naval Infantry. At the same time Red Army armoured units should invade East Prussia and follow the Baltic coast to link up with these units, al the time being supplied by the Russian Baltic Fleet.....
Of course all these depends on the fact wheter we can get the Russians on the Allied side and secondly wheter the Russians really do have the capacity to execute such a tall order.
Just surfed ACG/SZO having posted my previous reply and saw that the new November issue will have an article on Red Army paratroopers in WWII. Looking forward to this also as it happens to be the branch I had such ambitious plans for: landing them on German Baltic coast beachheads, to secure the seaborne landings of Soviet Naval Infantry. At the same time Red Army armoured units should invade East Prussia and follow the Baltic coast to link up with these units, al the time being supplied by the Russian Baltic Fleet.....
Of course all these depends on the fact wheter we can get the Russians on the Allied side and secondly wheter the Russians really do have the capacity to execute such a tall order.
Perhaps Finland could be persuaded to co-operate in a joint British-Soviet base for operations directed toward Norway and Denmark, and perhaps the area around Danzig-Lubek???
The Finns were after all very close to getting troops from France and Britain to their aid during the winter war of 39-40.
With the UK as a guaranteer that the Soviets will not annex Finland, a joint op of Soviet and British troops, with the added forrest fighting prowess of the Finnish army, would make a splendid base to re take Norway, and move south toward the heart of Prussia itself!!!!
Let's face it, crazier things have taken place, just look at the Molotov Ribbentrop agreement!
Let's get our Swedish embassy's on the hotlines!!!
Royal Marines, with RAF and RN cover for the land armies of the USSR, will make a great combo to throw Hitler off balance!
Where are the Germans in Britain at the moment???
Shurely there is a national redoubt for the British armed forces in Scotland at least???
What of America? If the Japanese hit pearl and the Germans start to advance from Norway toward Iceland and beyond, the US armed forces are not ready for such a double blow, Roosevelt must understand the peril America face's now too...
captainsennef
01 Oct 05, 07:47
Perhaps Finland could be persuaded to co-operate in a joint British-Soviet base for operations directed toward Norway and Denmark, and perhaps the area around Danzig-Lubek???
The Finns were after all very close to getting troops from France and Britain to their aid during the winter war of 39-40.
With the UK as a guaranteer that the Soviets will not annex Finland, a joint op of Soviet and British troops, with the added forrest fighting prowess of the Finnish army, would make a splendid base to re take Norway, and move south toward the heart of Prussia itself!!!!
Let's face it, crazier things have taken place, just look at the Molotov Ribbentrop agreement!
Let's get our Swedish embassy's on the hotlines!!!
Royal Marines, with RAF and RN cover for the land armies of the USSR, will make a great combo to throw Hitler off balance!
Where are the Germans in Britain at the moment???
Shurely there is a national redoubt for the British armed forces in Scotland at least???
What of America? If the Japanese hit pearl and the Germans start to advance from Norway toward Iceland and beyond, the US armed forces are not ready for such a double blow, Roosevelt must understand the peril America face's now too...
Persuade Finland to join the Allies is a very good idea indeed! If the Finns are willing to join the Allied side, I'm sure His Majesty's government will give the necessary guarantees. Also I don't think Stavka will object as long it remains clear to them that this poses no threat to USSR security!!
With the Finns on Allied side options are open again in Northern Scandinavia, e.g. take North Norway (Narvik) from the Nazis. Obviously there can be no UK expeditionary force at this time, all forces needed on the Home Isles to fight off 'SeeLowe'.
But with Finland in the allied camp the threat to Germany is much more potent, both to the North (Scandinavia) and the South (Baltic).
On a more sober note: I have given the Russian invasion plans in Germany as discussed above some more thought. A Soviet airborne and seaborne landing at the coast of Pommerania seems not really possible. The Kriegsmarine is training its U-boat crews in the Baltic, threatening an Red invasion fleet from Leningrad. Also landing craft in enough quantity seem not to be available yet. At the same time the remaining Luftwaffe and Flak units in NE Germany may easily shoot down airborne force.
This leaves only the Red Army armored units as an active offensive force to take off pressure from the besieged Brits. However after the purges in 1938 there seem not to be that many Soviet generals who can deftly handle large armoured units. Only Zhukov has shown what he can do with armoured units against the Japanese. So best policy is perhaps to let make the Red Army moves towards the German border, forcing the OKW to transfer troops from Western to Eastern Europe.
Plans to involve the Swedes are of course worth studying but I doubt wether Stockholm is willing to give up its neutrality in the face of an opponent who seems to be willing to leave them alone?? However more allies may be found in SE Europe where the Yugoslavs (or at least the Serbs) seem to take a definite anti Axis stand. They have witnessed what happened to their Slav brethern in Czechoslovakia and Poland and were ready to send out volunteers to join the Czechs in their fight against the Germans.
Ceterum censeo that it would be nice to have an update on the current situation.
Once the intel comes through we will be able to make our countermoves to Sealion. Basically all we can do anyway is hang on by our fingernails and hope for any outside help that may come (Hello USA?). Meanwhile I completely agree that all diplomatic avenues, no matter how seemingly unlikely, must be utilized now.
captainsennef
08 Oct 05, 10:19
As we are currently fighting off the German invasion in East Anglia it seems to me that it is premature and even defaitist to talk about 'national redoubts' in Scotland and Wales. Our strongest assets are still the Royal Navy and the RAF which should prevent any Nazi follow-up forces to set foot in England. Especially the heavy stuff which wins wars like tanks and artillery, but also the logistic support (fuel, ammo, horses and military hospitals) should never reach East Anglia. In this way this (and possibly other attempts) will just be unsupported landings which eventually, for all their bravery and talent, we should be able to mop up. The Kriegsmarine is no match for the Navy and the RAF and Luftwaffe seem to be on a par, but the RAF fights a home match. Shot down RAF pilots can be brought back in the fight, whereas downed German pilots end as POWs or drown in the North Sea.
Secondly the Germans have to use river barges and tow boats from ports in Belgium and Holland to cross the North Sea in order to reach East Anglia. We should not only try to sink them through the Royal Navy and the RAF, but also 'set Europe ablaze' and supply the Resistance in these countries with radios so that they can inform us about convoys leaving from Rotterdam and Antwerp, which will enable us to have submarines in place, but also drop explosives and trained saboteurs (SOE) to create as much havoc as possible in these ports. In a short time the autumn weather will be so bad over the North Sea that all crossing attempts in river barges will be suicidal.
Autumn and winter season can be used to find new allies in Eastern Europe (who can even launch spoiling attacks) and for US war production to gear up and reach the UK.
As we are currently fighting off the German invasion in East Anglia it seems to me that it is premature and even defaitist to talk about 'national redoubts' in Scotland and Wales. Our strongest assets are still the Royal Navy and the RAF which should prevent any Nazi follow-up forces to set foot in England. Especially the heavy stuff which wins wars like tanks and artillery, but also the logistic support (fuel, ammo, horses and military hospitals) should never reach East Anglia. In this way this (and possibly other attempts) will just be unsupported landings which eventually, for all their bravery and talent, we should be able to mop up. The Kriegsmarine is no match for the Navy and the RAF and Luftwaffe seem to be on a par, but the RAF fights a home match. Shot down RAF pilots can be brought back in the fight, whereas downed German pilots end as POWs or drown in the North Sea.
Secondly the Germans have to use river barges and tow boats from ports in Belgium and Holland to cross the North Sea in order to reach East Anglia. We should not only try to sink them through the Royal Navy and the RAF, but also 'set Europe ablaze' and supply the Resistance in these countries with radios so that they can inform us about convoys leaving from Rotterdam and Antwerp, which will enable us to have submarines in place, but also drop explosives and trained saboteurs (SOE) to create as much havoc as possible in these ports. In a short time the autumn weather will be so bad over the North Sea that all crossing attempts in river barges will be suicidal.
Autumn and winter season can be used to find new allies in Eastern Europe (who can even launch spoiling attacks) and for US war production to gear up and reach the UK.
Ah, so the nazi is only in a part of East Anlia! Ahh, well, gentlemen, we can make friz loose a fiew divisions and turn this to our advantage...
The plan formulated above by my esteemed collegue is sound, cut off the divisions by the might of the royal navy, with fullest air cover from the raf, and let us see how the german divisions deteriorate...
Also, let us try to get the scandianavians, and possibly even a shift with the Russians going for Bulgaria or something like that that will throw off the Germans balance as the Ploesti oil fields are now close to grabs fror stalin, as Hitler is focused toward Britain....
Needless to say, the troops holding the ring arround the nazi's, shold make limited attacks with massive bombardments and arty shelling toward any hight stack with large ammounts of infantry in it, this will degrade the Germans faster, and possibly even make them loose suprisingly large ammounts of men, who'm they cannot replace if the Royal Navy is doing it's job, well....
Is there any kind of possibility of hitting the German bargers in interdiction? I seem to remember that there is a flaw in TOAW that makes sea travel totally safe... So let us put a ring of ships with battleships behind destroyers, and see the Kriegsmarine with combat support British bombers joining the fray, and the Nazi's cannot get their fighters into East Anglia, or otherwize the laws of physics during 1940 have been altered for the game!
The RAF fighters should have a free range onto any Heinkels or Junkers planes that try to come and bomb the Navy ships having a half circle defence arround east anglia to block all suplies and re-inforcements...
This will make Jerry try another landing, with para's, probably onto the Dover section, we must be prepared for that! A very strong air supreriority is now needed, as stated before interdiction doesnt work on the sea, so all fighers should be on air superiority and bombers on combat support, or raids onto Brigdes or such in occupied Europe...
And the Germans should model that their submarine war which doesnt show in TOAW but still would be raging at the moment would make the US goverment pretty mad at the moment... Somehow this should be factored in...
And what has happened between Japan and the USSR around Manchuria? I take it that there has been no war there???
Now it is time to try and convince Russia that Japan is dangerous, America knows this, and Japan will try to divide the British Empire which will be disastrous to Stalin if the Nazis win, so I truly hope that a vote will be factored in where we can simulate the diplomatic stuff going on...
The Finn's would kick out the Germans from Norway, I'm pretty shure of that, they did kick out some 300 000 Germans including the abysmally failed (because the volunteers from mainly the Berlin area taught as a mechanized division of SS Nordland, didnt stand a cat in hell's chache in Lappland, when they tried to get to the Murmansk railway in 41) SS division there, woud be chased way south toward Oslo, and then the iron ore will be denied to the Germans, the Swedes, will go with whomever is the more powerful, but they will accept the soviets in the area only if a Democratic big player has guarantees from Stalin that he won't try to exand into Scandinavia....
Getting Stalin to act is almost impossible, and somekind of ruse could be used to activate the Red Army now, they could take whole of Romania, and Bulgaria before the nazi's could react at all, and that would mean that their oil sources will dwindle fast...
Yep, we need a vote to simulate the diplomacy, if the US is only getting in by vote, then let us vote!
Hello Allied Commanders, I had just found my way to the last thread of this operation. I am new to this site and was just posting to ask if it is to late for me to join the war for the Allied cause. If so, please update me on our current status. Thanks
5star_US :salute:
Hello Allied Commanders, I had just found my way to the last thread of this operation. I am new to this site and was just posting to ask if it is to late for me to join the war for the Allied cause. If so, please update me on our current status. Thanks
5star_US :salute:
Not too late at all! I joined just a few months ago myself! To catch up on all the action so far read all of the Allied and Combined Threads under the Europe Aflame Interactive Combat Story. In a nutshell Germany and her allies are landing in England (Operation Sealion). The initial landing was contained, but at last intel received a second landing was made and a port captured-but we (Allies) don't know where yet! Mantis will brief us soon and then we'll get back to kicking Nazi butts out of the UK! :devil:
Thanks granite! :laugh: I'm going to read some of the previous threads right now and get some of the specifics on our situation.
:salute:
After reading some of the previous posts, I am doubting that we oculd pull the Finns to the Allies. They may become part if of the Allies-IF- Russia was not included. I draw this conclusion from a previous war that they(Russia vs. Finland) had just prior to the one we are engaged in now. They are bitter rivals and because of this fact, I believe we should probably draw Russia to our side rather than the Finnish because of the overall strength and size of the Russian Army (Even though the Finnish humiliated the Russians during that war, Russia has gone through a massive reconstruction of their military which is why I prefer them.).
:salute:
captainsennef
29 Oct 05, 09:05
Welcome 5 star US, we can always use fresh brains at the Allied HQ. I myself joined a couple of months ago when the strategic situation was where it is now (Germans landed in East Anglia and in an as yet undisclosed other location) and haven't seen us moving out of the present deadlock.
I guess we have to hang in till Mantis has found time or fresh blood to get us moving again. I must confess that in the beginning I contributed regularly, but after being a while in this stalemate my enthousiasm started to wear thin.
Now I just check any latest developments without even bothering to sign in.
In my opinion it is important that we have contributions like yours to keep Allied commanders committed to the cause.
Thanks, I'm starting to get a wee bit impaticient myself. I can't wait to get the campaign started again. :D
OK here is my Christmas wish list:
1. A US Naval Task Force sent to Jolly Ole' England to help cut off the invaders.
2. Uncle Joe Stalin accepts some land in the southern border regions of the USSR and launches a attack into Poland.
3. Cut-off Nazis in England surrender en masse allowing the Allies to conserve valuable resources for other operations.
4. US industry kicks into high gear and starts sending troops and material into England to begin the buildup for an invasion of the Continent.
5. German Generals save us all a lot of trouble and assassinate the Fuhrer!
Hang in there everyone, one of these days things will break loose and we may be wishing for the quiet time to return!
Oh if only Christmas came sooner..... :rolleyes:
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