Most suitable game for modelling free-roaming BAI...?

[Sunburn]

Hi all,

I have been trying for some time now to find a suitable game for modelling an oft-ignored aspect of air support: The execution of free-roaming (i.e. no explicit targets assigned) battlefield air interdiction, a.k.a. search & destroy air patrols over the front lines or behind them.

The problem with most of the popular tactical wargames available is that almost all of them treat air assets as just another form of artillery: First you detect the enemy forces with other means and then you direct air support against them in a specific spot. You cannot designate a large area and tell your aircraft "go over there, search for the enemy and engage any hostiles found, otherwise return when bingo or winchester". Because of this, the ability of air assets to indepedently hunt for targets on the ground on their own is sadly not modelled.

I would therefore like to ask if any of you knows of any method of using any of the existing games to model this aspect.

I have already come up with a workaround using SPMBT (using unarmed & indestructible recon ground units to simulate the hunting ability of the aircraft), but frankly I would prefer something less of a kludge. As an example, I've heard good things about air assets in POA-2 and given it a go, but still find the interface a bit complex to get around too, and then there's the issue of the non-editable DB and rigid OOBs.

Suggestions?

[Achilles]

Geias sou Dimitri,

Ean katalaba theleis i aeroporia na mporei na briski stoxous opos armata mahis kai na ta xtypaei kata boulisi...

Ean epilexeis ena sminos kai toy apenergopoiisis ta opla poy mporoyn na plixoun SOFT TARGETS , ua to xrisimopoihs gia HARD TARGETS (armata mahis).

Ean thelis steile mou EMAIL gia na se boithiso epipleon.

Ante na akoustoun kai liga ellinika se auto to SITE :D

Pyros

ps. Ta paixnidia SP mporoun na briskoun stoxous kata boulisi akoma kai ean den tous exeis prosdiorisi proigoumenos.

[Double Deuce]

I have already come up with a workaround using SPMBT (using unarmed & indestructible recon ground units to simulate the hunting ability of the aircraft), but frankly I would prefer something less of a kludge.Have you looked at taking a helicopter and doing the same as you have for the ground unit? Make it indestructable and let it loiter over the rear area or part of the map where you are "searching" for targets of opportunity? You would still need to call in the attack aircraft like usual though.

[Sunburn]

Have you looked at taking a helicopter and doing the same as you have for the ground unit? Make it indestructable and let it loiter over the rear area or part of the map where you are "searching" for targets of opportunity?

That was my first thought too, and I tried it. Turns out that the helicopters, even when indestructible, will turn and flee when facing even the lightest AAA. (Maybe I did something wrong when configuring them in the DB editor.....ideas?). A hunter-killer CAS/BAI pilot will likely dodge the fire and move on.

Also, if they retreat in the rear area and loiter there, the helos cannot detect enemy targets that may not advance forward at all, like supply trucks, AAA/SAM assets, HQ & engineering units etc. All these are not only valid but also very valuable BAI targets (more so than the usual armor & mech. infantry stuff, in fact).


You would still need to call in the attack aircraft like usual though.

That's not a problem, as my setups are almost always AI-vs-AI. I am not using SPMBT as a stand-alone game, but as a tactical A2G-combat component in the Europe-88 Project battles.

[Double Deuce]

That was my first thought too, and I tried it. Turns out that the helicopters, even when indestructible, will turn and flee when facing even the lightest AAA. (Maybe I did something wrong when configuring them in the DB editor.....ideas?). A hunter-killer CAS/BAI pilot will likely dodge the fire and move on.What about modifying Observation Aircraft and see what you get out of them. Of course they enter and leave the screen each turn BUT maybe they will return enough to simulate searching?

[Sunburn]

Are Observation Aircraft allowed (by their defined class behavior) to engage ground targets? IIRC I had tried something with them and they seemed to be look-only. I'll have to look that up on the manual. I might give them another try.

There is however a broader issue with using other air units as spotters for the strikers. Enemy ground forces have the tendency to engage the spotters with their best anti-air weapons, thus making life that much easier for the follow-up BAI hunters. (And since the spotters have to be invulnerable, they soak up fire like a sponge). If for example I have a Soviet MRR expend most of its precious SHORADS and MANPADS on a harmless OV-1 or OV-10, then the coming A-10 sections will face a much lower anti-air threat level than they normally would. This is one of the reasons I went with ground recon units: their presence does not (usually) drain the AAA/SAM resources of the ground forces under attack.

[Achilles]

Geia sou Dimitri,

It depends on what you really want to simulate with an air raid. Usually as targets of opportunity are considered various armored vehicles. With the game mechanism of SP games if you assign a blind hex attack on a specific target you will experience several behaviors from the air strike element. If for example the strike force has HE bombs they will hit the targeted hex without seeking any spotted target. If in another example the strike element has only guided ATGM it will have to spot a valid target, since this weapon isn’t an area effect weapon.
The best way to experiment is to try and activate/de-activate the various weapons of the selected strike element. Also you may modify the various attributes of the strike element by pressing the D-button.

Meta timis,
Pyros

Y.s : Pou meneis stin Ellada? Ego eimai Athinaios, 35 eton

[Sunburn]

The root of the problem is that the player AI does not use CAS/BAI air assets pro-actively in the battle (and I don't mean preparatory bombardment of a specific spot, but area-search patrol). The aircraft are called-in only after friendly troops have located enemy units, just like artillery. This means that I cannot set up a battle where one side has only air assets (except the HQ), because these assets will never be called (unless the HQ makes contact, which again brings us to my current "solution" of invincible ground recon units).

A better solution would be if the CAS/BAI aircraft exhibited the patrol behavior of the unarmed observation aircraft, or conversely if the observation aircraft could be armed with A2G weapons and use them. (If that was the case, then I would simply make complete copies of CAS/BAI aircraft and type-classify them as "observation"). IIRC the SPMBT manual states that observation aircraft are explicitly restricted from such an ability.

BTW, do observation aircraft make one pass over the battlefield or do they come and go until they get shot down? Or do they have a finite number of passes?