units stuck in some terrain

[piero1971]

ever notice this, in some terrain, (rough or dunes, so far i noticed) units may enter terrain, but cometimes, if all the terrain that surrounds them is of unpassable ir if they lost the equipment needed to do go through it, the unit is stuck.

and if unsupplied, it reduces itself to 1 equipment and stays there and never is destroyed and so does not reforms.

ever seen that?

[viridomaros]

ever notice this, in some terrain, (rough or dunes, so far i noticed) units may enter terrain, but cometimes, if all the terrain that surrounds them is of unpassable ir if they lost the equipment needed to do go through it, the unit is stuck.

and if unsupplied, it reduces itself to 1 equipment and stays there and never is destroyed and so does not reforms.

ever seen that?

i had the case in fall blau from brian top, when trying to counter attack through icing water with the russians

[nemo]

Yeah. In an EA 3.3 game, as the result of combat, my LRDG unit has been sitting for ages at 73,137 in the middle of unpassable dunes, unsupplied. I'm waiting for an Allied offensive in the area to put it into supply again so that I'm able to disband it at least.

[piero1971]

yeah, it's one of those bugs... it seems. glad i am not the only one with this pbm. sort of.

[Raver]

For what its worth I do it all the time as well. Especially in EA with the badlands, and in the desert. I think the secret is not to go there in the first place ;)

[Tiberius]

Yes.
IN the the Middle East 67 scenario I once got gen. Sharon stuck in a "sand trap". I thought it was pretty funny. You gotta be careful going off road in the dunes!

[Dicke Bertha]

If you retreat an enemy into 'impassable' terrain, and you are advancing past this location, so that it is soon isolated deep in your rear, is it safe to leave the enemy unguarded? Is there any way the enemy can 'recuperate' enough with time to actually leave that hex and start marauding your rear?

Another question; what will happen to a unit on a frozen lake when it thaws - will it sink? :)

[nemo]

If you retreat an enemy into 'impassable' terrain, and you are advancing past this location, so that it is soon isolated deep in your rear, is it safe to leave the enemy unguarded? Is there any way the enemy can 'recuperate' enough with time to actually leave that hex and start marauding your rear? Actually, danger will not come from their recuperating enough but from their being debilitated enough :smoke:

If the enemy unit is unsupplied it will progressively lose equipment. Now unpassable terrain (dunes and the like) is unpassable only for certain classes of equipment - rifle squads can get through, trucks can't. So, let's assume you have a motorized unit made of rifle squads and trucks in this situation. Equipment and men will dwindle to very low levels, to the point where - possibly - you'll have a unit without trucks at all, only rifle squads. At that point it'll be able to resume movement, provided it's not reorganising or it hasn't yet fallen prey to air interdiction.
So basically you can leave those units in your rear alone but I'd keep an eye on them if they sit close to important VP hexes.

[nemo]

Another question; what will happen to a unit on a frozen lake when it thaws - will it sink? :)On shallow water yes, the unit will be lost as soon as it thaws. If the unit is sitting on frozen flooded marsh hexes, it will not disappear but will be stuck.

This of course if we're not speaking about DD Shermans... ;)

[Dicke Bertha]

Thanks nemo. It's a strange game sometimes... 'Sir, should we make a swim for it? No, we can't abandon our trucks!'

Since the program asks you if you really want to adandon fixed guns etc when moving certain units, it would have been good to have the same question appear when a unit tries to enter terrain that is impassable for certain parts of its equipment. Like when trying to force a river 'do you really want to abandon your trucks, artillery, and...' etc. Or an option to disband certain equipment (for example slow moving equipment) (with certain loss), not only the entire unit. This is mainly a problem during your own turn I suppose, and I don't know what happens during forced retreats.

Wrong thread for that maybe. :)

[Schmindrick]

Bugs....Bugs....Bugs

[Mantis]

Hmmm. If a para/special forces unit is destroyed and reconstitutes, it loses it's airborne ability. If you disband it on purpose, won't you still lose this ability? And aside from the lost equipment, is there any other disadvantage to disbanding a unit when it is out of supply?

[Dicke Bertha]

On shallow water yes, the unit will be lost as soon as it thaws. If the unit is sitting on frozen flooded marsh hexes, it will not disappear but will be stuck.

This of course if we're not speaking about DD Shermans... ;)

Hmm, from a GiO turn, a little lake south of Budapest, a Soviet engineer marched out on the one hex lake when it was frozen, then came thaw, and the engineers are now boating (I don't recall doing anything particular). Is it because they have major ferries? Would infantry have sunk?

[Karri]

I recall that the units just moved to the next hex once the swamps/lakes were unfrozen...or perhaps I just had such vast quantity of units that I didn't notice even if they did sink.

[nemo]

Hmm, from a GiO turn, a little lake south of Budapest, a Soviet engineer marched out on the one hex lake when it was frozen, then came thaw, and the engineers are now boating (I don't recall doing anything particular). Is it because they have major ferries? Would infantry have sunk?That's most curious. I've ran a quick test without being able to reproduce this feature. Close, but not exactly.

An engineer brigade with a complement of 50 engineer squads and 60 Ferry-bridging teams sitting on a frozen shallow water hex will continue to happily sit on it (and keep its movement capability) after the thaw as set in. With 99% of major ferry capacity that's no surprise. But, it won't show the embarked icon. How did you make that trick? :)

[Dicke Bertha]

What if I made an attack that failed with the unit, or Mensch attacked units on the lake (I may have had a tank regiment too - I will check some more of the end sals)? Could it become seaborne by that?

[Dicke Bertha]

I checked some other sals. It seems the lake went from frozen to thawed with the engineer alone in it, without changing deployment - the unit was not embarked, just sitting in the un-frozen thawed shallow water. Then next turn it may have participated in an attack whereby the defenders were thrown out and other Soviet troops entered the hex just north of the lake. From then on I suspect it was embarked, as a result of its battles. Since red-flagged units are not allowed to make normal assaults, only limited, it can hardly be a result of trying to leave the shallow hex...

EDIT: I checked a mid-turn saved file: the unit can disembark, but after that not re-embark... :smoke: Not that this is the most important thing in the world, but... :)