View Full Version : What is your favorite tank and why?
I think my favorite tank has to be the M-60A3. It has a beatiful ballistic shape to it. It might be slow but when you look that good who cares how slow you are :) I'm realy interested in your oppinions. Sincerly, Dan :salute:
well for me its a choice out of the Panther, King Tiger, or even the Tiger. But I think Panther comes out on top - the combination of beauty and practicality just trumps the raw power of the king tiger.
Dicke Bertha
15 May 05, 06:00
And the Panther has just such a suiting name; beautiful, agile and lethal.
Ben Turner
15 May 05, 07:44
I normally say Pz-II when this question comes up. It's not what you have it's what you do with it that counts.
ER_Chaser
15 May 05, 08:22
I normally say Pz-II when this question comes up. It's not what you have it's what you do with it that counts.
well, so what can do with that PzII? :) Spotting? :)
The Doctor
15 May 05, 08:26
Armored combat in Vietnam has always been an area of interest to me. My favorite tank is the M48A3 Patton.
MonsterZero
15 May 05, 08:38
Depends on place and time. If the setting is early Barbarossa I'd love to confront the light German panzers in a KV-1 or a T-34. For sports car performance nothing beats an M24 Chafee, maybe except the modern Scorpion light tank which also handles and accelerates like a racecar.
The Scopion has the Jag engine right? :)
Depends on place and time. If the setting is early Barbarossa I'd love to confront the light German panzers in a KV-1 or a T-34. For sports car performance nothing beats an M24 Chafee, maybe except the modern Scorpion light tank which also handles and accelerates like a racecar.
Ben Turner
15 May 05, 13:30
well, so what can do with that PzII? :) Spotting? :)
The single most incredible upset in modern military history.
piero1971
15 May 05, 13:44
the italian model 33 tankette. just fun! is that even a tank?
J. Dhatori
15 May 05, 15:16
Leclerc.
viridomaros
15 May 05, 16:49
I normally say Pz-II when this question comes up. It's not what you have it's what you do with it that counts.
interesting can you enlight me on your reasons for this choice?
myself i would go for panther
1) it's a fast tank (regarding when it was produced and its weight)
2) it's well armored
3) it has a good gun
what more could you have asked by that time for a tank to be good?
Bloodstar
15 May 05, 19:20
well for me its a choice out of the Panther, King Tiger, or even the Tiger. But I think Panther comes out on top - the combination of beauty and practicality just trumps the raw power of the king tiger.
I second that, Panther :)
Mario
Ben Turner
15 May 05, 19:28
interesting can you enlight me on your reasons for this choice?
Well the question was "What is your favourite tank?". The PzKpfw II really stands out, not for its firepower, its armour or its appearance, but for what could be done with it nevertheless. It was just right for the task the Germans had set for it.
Plus I knew there would be a bunch of people talking about the Panther and the T-34 and so on. No-one ever mentions the Pz-II.
Menschenfresser
15 May 05, 21:45
The old, "Nobody ever expects the Pz-II", routine, eh?
"Our chief weapons are a 20mm cannon, a 7.92mm machine gun and inadequate armor."
I think my second choice for an AFV would be the King tiger, what great vehicle to beat rush hour :) and on top of it you would not have to worry about getting speeding tickets.
Ben Turner
15 May 05, 22:04
The old, "Nobody ever expects the Pz-II", routine, eh?
"Our chief weapons are a 20mm cannon, a 7.92mm machine gun and inadequate armor."
Inadequate for what?
viridomaros
16 May 05, 03:49
Well the question was "What is your favourite tank?". The PzKpfw II really stands out, not for its firepower, its armour or its appearance, but for what could be done with it nevertheless. It was just right for the task the Germans had set for it.
Plus I knew there would be a bunch of people talking about the Panther and the T-34 and so on. No-one ever mentions the Pz-II.
germans were quite good when it comes to use a tank. This is true for nearly all of what they produced.
If i understand you, you like the pzII because the germans managed to be succesfull with this tank even if it wasn't the best tank available at the time?
germans were quite good when it comes to use a tank. This is true for nearly all of what they produced.
If i understand you, you like the pzII because the germans managed to be succesfull with this tank even if it wasn't the best tank available at the time?
Once again the best tank of all times is forgotten: the Centurion.
piero1971
16 May 05, 06:35
ahhh, the centurion... indeed the best for its time...
viridomaros
16 May 05, 07:31
Once again the best tank of all times is forgotten: the Centurion.
i just had a look at the specifications of the vehicle as well as at some pictures of it
and i agree
piero1971
16 May 05, 08:07
The centurion was also my first ever plastic mode tank at 1:35 when I was like 10:
http://www.davidpride.com/Israeli_Armor/images/IL_Armor001.jpg
http://www.41herstel-hohne.studio-7.nl/Wiebe%20Kamminga/Hohne/Centurion.jpg
http://www.1rtr.net/army/centurion.jpg
http://www.au104.org/Photo2/images31-35/104Sigs-34_9.jpg
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/dreadnaught_centurion.jpg
http://pydracor.shitrockerz.de/Warmachine/Centurion%2002.JPG
http://www.bavay.com/images/centurion.jpghttp://www.time-machine.ch/gerry-images/pics/large/Roman-Centurion.jpeg
Ben Turner
16 May 05, 09:47
The centurion was also my first ever plastic mode tank at 1:35 when I was like 10:
I have a photo of one of them on my wall.
piero1971
16 May 05, 10:01
can't remember if it was a Tamiya or an Airfix.... neat stuff.
On purely aesthetic grounds, Chieftain, with Leclerc close second.
Ben Turner
16 May 05, 11:44
On purely aesthetic grounds, Chieftain, with Leclerc close second.
Nah. All modern tanks are ugly. None of them have the proper pleasing proportions of 1940s and 1950s tanks.
Nah. All modern tanks are ugly. None of them have the proper pleasing proportions of 1940s and 1950s tanks.Yeah, like the Pz-II :p
Secret Agent
16 May 05, 12:28
M1A2...when victory is not optional. :devil:
http://www.combatindex.com/hardware/images/land/m1/m1a1_168.jpg
Ben Turner
16 May 05, 12:31
Yeah, like the Pz-II :p
Well a) the Pz-II is a 1930s tank. I said 1940s and 1950s.
b) I chose the Pz-II for non-aesthetic reasons.
c) The Pz-II looks pretty good in profile.
Well a) the Pz-II is a 1930s tank. I said 1940s and 1950s.
b) I chose the Pz-II for non-aesthetic reasons.
c) The Pz-II looks pretty good in profile.No problem on a and b, the choice of the Pz-II makes indeed sense in this case.
I beg to differ on c, but when it comes to looks it's all a question of tastes I guess.
Depends on place and time. If the setting is early Barbarossa I'd love to confront the light German panzers in a KV-1 or a T-34. For sports car performance nothing beats an M24 Chafee, maybe except the modern Scorpion light tank which also handles and accelerates like a racecar.
Unfortunately, if we're talking early Barbarossa, this would mean that you would be a poorly trained tanker with zero support, horrendous logistics, a 60% chance of breaking down before reaching the battlefield, a 100% of being left behind if your tank is even slightly damaged, a 25% chance of not being able to fire the main gun (no bore sights) and a very, very good chance of running out of fuel and being blown up by German engineers.
Otherwise, yeah, it would be a real party.
Cheers
Paul
For me
1940 -> Somua S35, best tank of this period
1941 -> Pkz III more effective
1942 -> T34 the deadly surprise for Panzer division
1943 -> Tiger the pure killing power
1944 -> König Tiger even if he got some youth problem it was the best German tank
1945 -> JS2 The Best Russian tank of this period the last evolution of KV1
Cold War period M48 and latter German Leopard I and II
And As I was Tank Commanderof of one : The EBR90
Actual period : LECLERC the best modern tank far beyond abrams
Der WanderTankCommander
J. Dhatori
17 May 05, 12:49
I think Leclerc is a very neat looking tank. :)
Bdr.Mallette
17 May 05, 13:01
Oh c'mon now,
A french Tank.
Isn't that a little oxymoronish?
lol.
Jk'ing.
Panther, Tiger or Mark IV.
Today's tanks --> Leopard II.
or Abrams.
:D
Secret Agent
17 May 05, 14:06
LECLERC the best modern tank far beyond abrams
Just a little misspelling...should be "behind" not "beyond." ;)
Ben Turner
17 May 05, 15:34
1940 -> Somua S35, best tank of this period....
...Actual period : LECLERC the best modern tank
One can't deny that the French are pretty good at designing tanks (though the Somua appears to have been undergunned), but there's more to it than that.
J. Dhatori
17 May 05, 16:05
One can't deny that the French are pretty good at designing tanks (though the Somua appears to have been undergunned), but there's more to it than that.
More like overgunned. WWI design mentality. :cry: :nuts:
And As I was Tank Commanderof of one : The EBR90
One of those with the oscillating turret and the steel central wheels? Wasn't it a bit crampy once inside?
Ben Turner
17 May 05, 17:01
More like overgunned. WWI design mentality. :cry: :nuts:
Well apparently the 47mm gun in the turret wasn't the new French type which equipped the artillery regiments. This makes it undergunned compared to contemporary medium tanks in other armies. Also problems with the radio.
Oh c'mon now,
A french Tank.
Isn't that a little oxymoronish?
lol.
Jk'ing.
Panther, Tiger or Mark IV.
Today's tanks --> Leopard II.
or Abrams.
:D
Jealous, you have no more tanks in canadian army:whist:
Der WanderLeclercIsTheBest
Secret Agent
17 May 05, 20:59
Jealous, you have no more tanks in canadian army:whist:
[With British Accent:] What a display of utter ignorance! Canada uses the Leopard. :halo: [/British Accent]
Ivan Rapkinov
17 May 05, 21:12
[With British Accent:] What a display of utter ignorance! Canada uses the Leopard. :halo: [/British Accent]
yes, but they're being removed and replaced with MGSs if they ever get them working. Fits in with a more peacekeeping orientated force.
so Jean Luc was kinda right ;)
Secret Agent
17 May 05, 21:20
yes, but they're being removed and replaced with MGSs if they ever get them working. Fits in with a more peacekeeping orientated force.
so Jean Luc was kinda right ;)
Well, if you are going to say that, then the US will be "tankless" around 2014 (with the exception of Army Reserve/National Guard units) as the FCS family moves in, with the FCS MGV.... :devious:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/fcs_mcs_mcs_00272004-10-19.jpg
viridomaros
18 May 05, 06:22
Well, if you are going to say that, then the US will be "tankless" around 2014 (with the exception of Army Reserve/National Guard units) as the FCS family moves in, with the FCS MGV.... :devious:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/images/fcs_mcs_mcs_00272004-10-19.jpg
did they look at the old elephant to design this one :laugh:
J. Dhatori
18 May 05, 06:40
WTH is that resurrected Dicker's Max?
Secret Agent
18 May 05, 07:14
did they look at the old elephant to design this one :laugh:
Yes, I am guessing Republicans designed this - Oh, wait; you are talking about the Elephant tank-killer? Oh. :halo:
Ivan Rapkinov
18 May 05, 08:01
I have doubts that the FCS will ever see service. Especially if they can't get the JCM working. No JCM = no FCS. Put the fancy sensor suites on pre-existing equipment and you still get a similar result <shrug>
Ben Turner
18 May 05, 08:29
Well, if you are going to say that, then the US will be "tankless" around 2014
I'm skeptical that the US Army can replace all its MBTs in nine years, given how long the Bradley took to finish.
Yes I'd be surprised also - the army did a GREAT job spreading
the Abrams work around - ie Senate etc. :whist:
Yes I'd be surprised also - the army did a GREAT job spreading
the Abrams work around - ie Senate etc. :whist:
Wandering in diffrerent US official web site, for the differents 2004 series scenarios, I read that Abrams M1A2 only will remain in US forces all other M1 will be removed due to maintenance cost.
IIRW it will let 1/3 of US army units using Abrams
Der WanderTOAWAssitant
One can't deny that the French are pretty good at designing tanks (though the Somua appears to have been undergunned), but there's more to it than that.
No Ben the somua with its 47mm gun was very impresive.
The 47mm was the best gun in the 1940 even the 75mm of PzIV was less effective at long distance.
And think that German get a severe mauling even with the 25mm AT gun. No German armor was able to stand the 25 mm shoot.
Problem there was not enough 25mm guns in the French Army. But Production was high!! so where was the snag ?
Der Wander1940Analyst
One of those with the oscillating turret and the steel central wheels? Wasn't it a bit crampy once inside?
No insideI had enough place to stand and move honnestly. It was true that most of the time we were not in war configuation with all 90mm shells inside, episcopes etc....
No the worst was for sitting we had only a wooden circular seat of 30cm of diameter, even if I was more thinner than now, the comfort was not perfect.
But Officers don't care as it was forbidden to run seated. If seat was put in down position it was difficult to escape or enter the turret in case of problems. The 2 last dies soldier in Algeria war was the 2 seated turret crews of an EBR crushed by their Tank as it was returning on itself
Der WanderParStHubertViveLaCavalerieParLassalleViveLes Hussards
Ben Turner
18 May 05, 14:27
No Ben the somua with its 47mm gun was very impresive.
The 47mm was the best gun in the 1940 even the 75mm of PzIV was less effective at long distance.
The 47mm AT(e) which was in French artillery units seems to have been the most effective. However the British 2 Pounder was superior to the one the French mounted on their tanks.
Problem there was not enough 25mm guns in the French Army. But Production was high!! so where was the snag ?
Several hundred 25mm AT guns were destroyed by Communist saboteurs during the Phoney War. Seriously. Hence there were only enough guns for the first-line divisions which were sent charging off into Belgium.
The 47mm AT(e) which was in French artillery units seems to have been the most effective. However the British 2 Pounder was superior to the one the French mounted on their tanks.
You are probably right, to be honnest I've few info on the 2 pounder gun, if you have good links about it share them
Several hundred 25mm AT guns were destroyed by Communist saboteurs during the Phoney War. Seriously. Hence there were only enough guns for the first-line divisions which were sent charging off into Belgium.
No the effect of Communist on production was considered as neglectable by all historians even military police show few inluence of sabotage on production.
No Friends, there were hundreds of 25 mm AT guns, in ports exported to others countries. Same for Renault 35 Light tanks, still true in June 40, Incredible noooo !!!:nuts:
Der WanderMoneyIsMoreThanPatrie
No insideI had enough place to stand and move honnestly. It was true that most of the time we were not in war configuation with all 90mm shells inside, episcopes etc....
No the worst was for sitting we had only a wooden circular seat of 30cm of diameter, even if I was more thinner than now, the comfort was not perfect.
But Officers don't care as it was forbidden to run seated. If seat was put in down position it was difficult to escape or enter the turret in case of problems. The 2 last dies soldier in Algeria war was the 2 seated turret crews of an EBR crushed by their Tank as it was returning on itself
I see. From the outside, its flat and narrow configuration seemed to leave anything but scarce room for the crew.
Der WanderParStHubertViveLaCavalerieParLassalleViveLes HussardsI concur, too bad the recruiter insisted on having me join the paracommandos instead of the cavalry - making me a civilian lol :smoke:
On WWII forum there is a trivia thread http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=340243#post340243
I asked many difficult questions could you answer them join it and try.
The one I asked and Lance try to find the answer is the following
Why in Belgium on the 14 and 15th of may, DLM's Somua S35 were unable to use their radio?
Wait your answers
Der WanderTOAWAssistant
Ben Turner
18 May 05, 16:25
No the effect of Communist on production was considered as neglectable by all historians even military police show few inluence of sabotage on production.
Try Alistair Horne's "To Lose a Battle".
No Friends, there were hundreds of 25 mm AT guns, in ports exported to others countries.
A small number sold to Britain. I'm not aware of any others being used outside France.
Same for Renault 35 Light tanks, still true in June 40, Incredible noooo !!!:nuts:
Again I'm not aware of any R-35s being sold off by the French in 1940. You may be confusing this with tanks being sold off by the Germans after the fall of France.
Did you read my essay on that campaign in the articles section over at TDG?
Try Alistair Horne's "To Lose a Battle".
A small number sold to Britain. I'm not aware of any others being used outside France.
Again I'm not aware of any R-35s being sold off by the French in 1940. You may be confusing this with tanks being sold off by the Germans after the fall of France.
Did you read my essay on that campaign in the articles section over at TDG?
Ben can you read French?,
If yes, I will give you names of lattest books published here with pages reference about what I am telling here.
Der WanderBooksReader
viridomaros
18 May 05, 16:36
Did you read my essay on that campaign in the articles section over at TDG?
read it far from being a waste of time but i think it's a bit short
Ben Turner
18 May 05, 18:57
Ben can you read French?,
If yes, I will give you names of lattest books published here with pages reference about what I am telling here.
I don't trust people to write truthfully about their greatest mistakes.
Ben Turner
18 May 05, 18:58
read it far from being a waste of time but i think it's a bit short
This was an essay I submitted for my degree and there was a 3,000 word limit.
viridomaros
18 May 05, 19:03
This was an essay I submitted for my degree and there was a 3,000 word limit.
a major reason to dislike school for me
given the limits given to you by your teacher i do like it
Bdr.Mallette
18 May 05, 19:18
On WWII forum there is a trivia thread http://www.strategyzoneonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=340243#post340243
I asked many difficult questions could you answer them join it and try.
The one I asked and Lance try to find the answer is the following
Why in Belgium on the 14 and 15th of may, DLM's Somua S35 were unable to use their radio?
Wait your answers
Der WanderTOAWAssistant
Solar Flares!
Houston, we have a problem.
:D
Bdr.Mallette
18 May 05, 19:24
Canadian Army!
Hmmmm.
It looks like it's going to take another big war before Canada really rebuilds any kind of army resembling that of the WW's, in strength anyways.
Due to American companies influencing our own production, of any kind, the likelihood of any Original creations by a Canadian Builder will be very low. Unfortunately. Would have liked to have seen a new 'Arrow' or similar advanced building in Tanks.
Probably only Canadians know about the Arrow.
JL, just playing with ya man. I dunno why I do, just like to do it.
Bdr. :D
Secret Agent
18 May 05, 19:26
Probably only Canadians know about the Arrow.
Actually, an AMERICAN put down the Arrow in the "Prettiest fighter" thread. (I think it was that thread.... :hmmm: )
I don't trust people to write truthfully about their greatest mistakes.
You don't trust US on Vietnam, UK on Ireland Partition, German on their Army, come on Ben it is not an scientific or historical approach.
You behave as you have the truth and what other said are subject to caution.
Did you know that Roumania Bulgaria Turkey ordered French guns ???, that R35 H39 were exported during the 1939-1940 period.
But that is the truth, even when french army missed material, french war production was exported, that's a fact nothing less nothing more
Der WanderTOAWAssistant
Ben Turner
19 May 05, 09:25
You don't trust US on Vietnam,
No, not really. The Americans mostly have skewed perspectives one way or the other.
UK on Ireland Partition,
Certainly better than reading Irish authors. I don't think anything that's happened in Ulster counts as a "great mistake" for Britain.
German on their Army,
I read what the Germans have to say about their successes and about their opponents. Quite different.
Did you know that Roumania Bulgaria Turkey ordered French guns ???, that R35 H39 were exported during the 1939-1940 period.
I never heard of Hotchkiss tanks being exported in significant numbers. I believe the Poles had three for evaluation.
But that is the truth, even when french army missed material, french war production was exported, that's a fact nothing less nothing more
Well assuming you're right on this then it's a matter of bringing the Little Entente around to support France. A hundred R-35s would not win or lose the Battle of France- especially not in June when the French had already lost and everyone knew it.
Well assuming you're right on this then it's a matter of bringing the Little Entente around to support France. A hundred R-35s would not win or lose the Battle of France- especially not in June when the French had already lost and everyone knew it.
I totaly agree with you, but what I wanted to pinpoint is when you are in such a war except for friends in war with you , you must keep your war production with you.
The exemples I gave you, where materials that the French Army of the Alps took in the main station and port of the south of France, they helped to create scratch units who were able to stop the Germanat the Alps door and empeach them to enter in the Back of the units fighting the Italians, as the Italians requested it in mid June 1940, as they were unbale to bypass the Maginot line of fire ( remeber 230 French killed for more than 6000 italians) especially in the Menton-Nice area 6 French killed for 4000 itlalians. The 6 Maginot fort placed in the Menton Sospel area have fire more than 100.000 shells desorganising all attacking forces but the concentrations points inside Ialy even on vintimiglia station itself.
This area was a battle between French artillery of Fortress and infantry
Der WanderSFAM
Ben Turner
21 May 05, 11:41
I totaly agree with you, but what I wanted to pinpoint is when you are in such a war except for friends in war with you , you must keep your war production with you.
I disagree. The Renault 35 was hardly state of the art. Similar arms deals were conducted with neutrals during the course of the war by Britain, the United States and Germany- and with weapons systems far more sophisticated than the Renault 35.
especially in the Menton-Nice area 6 French killed for 4000 itlalians.
Are you sure the latter figure isn't total casualties? I'm quite happy to accept hugely disproportionate losses but the Italians don't normally get themselves killed so much as surrender.
I disagree. The Renault 35 was hardly state of the art. Similar arms deals were conducted with neutrals during the course of the war by Britain, the United States and Germany- and with weapons systems far more sophisticated than the Renault 35.
Are you sure the latter figure isn't total casualties? I'm quite happy to accept hugely disproportionate losses but the Italians don't normally get themselves killed so much as surrender.
Can you surrender to shells, fired 10 km far from you by people who didn't know what they were firing as they fired on predeterminate coordinates.
There was no real Infantry fights, it was here that the efficiency of the maginot line was prooved.
during the preiod of open hostilities between France and Italy the Italian ( 35 divisions) facing 6 B divisions where unable to seiez any part of French territory except half of Menton and an other village I can't remember the name
Der WanderGeneralOlryChiefOfAlpsArmy
Ben Turner
21 May 05, 16:21
Can you surrender to shells, fired 10 km far from you by people who didn't know what they were firing as they fired on predeterminate coordinates.
In such circumstances the Italians wouldn't make continued and bloody assaults, though. They'd just refuse to advance.
There was no real Infantry fights, it was here that the efficiency of the maginot line was prooved.
Strictly speaking I don't think the Savoie and Alpes Maritimes Fortified Sectors count as part of the Maginot Line. In any case it would have been quite a different question to hold the length of the German border than it was to defend a few mountain passes. The performance of the Army of the Alps certainly demonstrates what the point of France's fortresses was- to minimise the amount of manpower needed to hold certain sectors of the front so that the maximum of force could be applied against the expected German attack through Belgium.
Again I'm not aware of any R-35s being sold off by the French in 1940. You may be confusing this with tanks being sold off by the Germans after the fall of France.
Ben,
I got the data I searched,
Please find the book called "blitzkrieg" of Len DEIGHTON, on page 175,
he explained that 830 25 mm AT guns were exported along with 500 guns, same with 250 R35.
Those tanks which were missing so much in June 1940
Der WanderInfosWrittenByABritIsMoreAcceptable
Ben Turner
30 May 05, 08:37
he explained that 830 25 mm AT guns were exported along with 500 guns, same with 250 R35.
Those tanks which were missing so much in June 1940
I doubt it would have made a difference, since the tanks would have very likely just been attached to 1er Groupment des Armees in May and been lost along with the rest.
Der WanderInfosWrittenByABritIsMoreAcceptable
Since this is actually just numbers it's not really subjective.
Cobra Commander
02 Jun 05, 02:28
M1A2 Abrahms, just the coolest thing ever put on tracks, a sleek beautiful tank.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.