Info on World War in Europe - Part #1 - TFB

[Glenn Saunders]

Thought I would create this new thread to keep Questions and issues regarding the new game out of the Panzer Campaigns thread. If there is enough interest, I would hope that the forum admin might consider a separate thread as WWIE in different from PzC - it is WWII, turn based, hex based and I work on this series and PzC's - but you can't judge a book by it's cover and when you think about it the 2D normal view of 1776 has a similar look Germany '85. I think 1776 to Germany '85 has as many or more similarities as Panzer Campaigns do to World War in Europe.

And there is some info on "the First Blitzkrieg" on my website with screen shots not available on other websites.

http://members.shaw.ca/gcsaunders/welcome.html

Glenn

[Reiryc]

Question:

Is there a full map from poland to france with norway above?

If so, does this mean that there is one 'mega' scenario that starts on sept 1 '39 that houses all of the combatants up to that time? ie: sept 1 '39 germany/poland and then from sept 3 '39 france/britain? Or is everything broken down into scenarios where losses carry over from one scenario to another?

[Glenn Saunders]

> Is there a full map from poland to france with norway above?

No - there are single Maps for the areas we needed for this game as at this point we don't have a single Campaign spaning the time from the end of the Poland Scn to the invasion of Denmark\Norway and then on to France. It is single scenarios at this point.

Glenn

[Reiryc]

Bummer...

I suppose that's just as well because I'm sure quite a few things will need to be fleshed out over the course of the series, such as replacements, resources, or whatever.

[Aries]

It stands to reason, the designers are at least aware of the impending release of Allied German War from Schwerpunct.

A logical question is what are your feelings on your ability to compete with a game that will ship as a whole, not several separate purchases, and should ideally be offering much what your game will be offering.

On the surface at least, the games seem to live in the same niche ie quasi operational grand strategic scope of actions.

AGW coupled with the already existing RGW, is not going to be an easy act to beat.

[Glenn Saunders]

Reiryc - at this point in time Replacements are a function added within a Scn as part of the design function and you are correct, over time and over a longer period there will be many issues to flesh out.

[Glenn Saunders]

> It stands to reason, the designers are at least aware of the impending release of Allied German War from Schwerpunct.

Aware - Yes - but that is all. We are in no way driven by WHO is producing WHAT Game WHEN.

We didn't start working on PzC:MG44 because we heard Matrix and Panther were doing HTTR. And I doubt Matrix did their Korsun Pocket game because they thought they could do it better than our Korsun '44. In both cases, both games were developed at the same time.Schwerpunct

Likewise, I pointed out to John Tiller ages ago that Schwerpunct was doing their RGW and we didn't change anything with our development of this game\series. We decided to do the Russian Front later and think the early part of the war in the west is the best part to focus on for now.

We do things our way, in our time scedule and don't worry about other people are doing - that is completely beyond our control. Truth be told, we actually had a playable game a long time ago but no AI. And there was no time to work on the new AI and so we worked with the basic combat system in HTH play.

The AI was developed as a result of new tools that John Tiller built last year while on Dept of Defense Contracts. Part of one abstract for this work reads:

"... The approach will use state-of-the-art A/I technologies programmed into A/I components which through well-defined interfaces will allow for a plug-and-play A/I system. This will provide for unlimited future development and enhancement. The results of this proposal can be used in numerous commercial wargames either released by the proposer or under development."

So this is what has driven the timing of our game. John finished the contract and we we ready to work on finishing the game.

If you and other folks want to play our TFB game and Schwerpunct's game (not sure now what the title is even) and compare and contrast them, that is fine by us. I am sure the other guys make a great game that some people will enjoy - and we hope that people will enjoy TFB too. All the best to Schwerpunct in their future game ventures as I personally think the Wargames industry is stronger with many small and health companies rather than be dominanted by only a few larger houses. This gives people the choice they want.

Glenn

[Alexander Seil]

It is, of course, great to see multiple companies doing multiple wargames at the same time. What is not so great is seeing the same old engines reused with no substantial enhancements. Now, from the information released so far, it appears that TWE dispensed with many features (realistic maps, etc.) that made PzC titles competitive without adding anything new. So far the only new feature is that mythical new AI, which is supposed to be better than the old one (oh man, where did I hear that one before... :whist: ). Otherwise it all looks like TOAW minus a couple dozen features and with no event engine to speak off. The question is, IS there anything NEW to speak of?

[Glenn Saunders]

Alexander

You are mistaken in saying:
"What is not so great is seeing the same old engines reused."

Of course you can say it all you like, but it doesn't make it true.

There are hexes, it is turn based, like TOAW and other games have. But the game and the Engine is new and does not share common code with PzC. The game has a different feel at least that is what I am told by PzC Players who try it. Of course what what I am reading mostly is comments from people judging the game from the screen shots and yes it has hexes, a map and a button bar and some of those buttons like "Jump Map", Open File, Save Map and Air Mission are they same buttons used in other games - why change the?

Glenn

[Alexander Seil]

To say that it shares no code at all with PzC is rather silly. It is quite clear, for one, that much of the interface is reused. Don't tell me that HPS did the SAME interface from scratch :halo: And, of course it plays differently. Take any scenario for TOAW - it plays differently. However TOAW scenarios come utterly free of charge, while scenarios for the HPS engine don't. One would expect HPS to compensate for that little fact by at least introducing new features in new series, rather than scaling the feature set down.

[jztemple]

To say that it shares no code at all with PzC is rather silly. It is quite clear, for one, that much of the interface is reused. Don't tell me that HPS did the SAME interface from scratch :halo:
Glenn said it doesn't share common code. They could have built the interface to look the same without having copied the code, but in the end it's moot, it's the gameplay that's significant. And I like that they are retaining the interface. It makes learning a new game system easier when things aren't moved around or altered for the sake of looking new.

However TOAW scenarios come utterly free of charge, while scenarios for the HPS engine don't.
TOAW scenarios free of charge? Not from Talonsoft, they made their bucks issuing expansion packs and repackaging TOAW in several different forms. If you had TOAW and TOAW II you still paid to get TOAW-GOTY and TOAW-ACOW, even though they used many of the same scenarios. And while I appreciate the great job that Norm Koger did in the design and support of the TOAW series, there were still balance problems after several patches, and the last patch (1.05) actually broke some things, so you had to stick with 1.04 which wasn't perfect either. Tiller and HPS Sims have kept all the older games up to date by issuing updates to the game engine to keep all the games in a series in sync.

Yes, there are a lot of free fan made scenarios for TOAW, but there are also quite a number for the different HPS Sims.

[dannybou]

Guys, this thread isn't about comparing TOAW and HPS. It is about HPS' new title that just came out.

Alexander, do you own the game? Have you played it? If you don't like what you see, then don't buy it, others will. I don't want this thread degenerating into a HPS product bashing, so please refrain yourselves.

[Chelco]

I got the game this Saturday. I gamed about hour and a half due to lack of time.
So far my impressions are very positive.
The issue of this game not being a Pz. Campaign game with just more aggregated units, time and space has been already discussed. Still I want to point out that the screenshots don't help the potential buyer to believe it. It was not until I loaded the game and started moving my divisions that I realized that this is not just a super-sized Pz. Campaigns. I know you guys in Tiller's team are busy with other stuff, but this a new game system and I think you need to show it off a bit with gameplay stories or AARs.
As for the game itself I am more than pleased from what I saw in the rather short game session (played the tutorial as the Germans invading a section of Poland). Maybe I'm still under the effect of the "just-opened-the-box" optimism, but I right now I feel that the scale and the engine itself fits like a glove for an operational level wargame. In addition, the defending computer opponent made a couple of moves that further ignited my hopes for this game to be "the one".
Cheers,

[Joao Lima]

Can anybody list in here the scenarios contained in the game?

[Glenn Saunders]

00: Getting Started: Sparks Along the Polish Corridor

100: Invasion of Denmark (Hypothetical)
101: The Fall of the Netherlands
102: The French Offensive in the Saare
103: Gamelin’s Gamble (Sept '39 Hypothetical)
104: Hitler's Directive #6: Case Yellow in '39 (Hypothetical)
110: The Invasion of Poland: Case White
111: Poland Stands Ready (Hypothetical: stronger Poland)
112: Poland Stands on the Vistula Line
120: The Invasion of Norway
121: The Invasion of Norway (Allies Free Hand)
130: The Invasion of France and the Lower Countries
131: The Invasion of France & Belgium (Smaller Scale - Historical)
132: The Original German War Plan (Hypothetical)
133: Belgium - On the Dyer Line (Hypothetical)
134: The Breakout from the Ardennes - Panzer Country
140: Operation Sealion - The German Invasion of England
141: Operation Sealion - (More Axis Challenge)

[Joao Lima]

Thanks Glenn. You sold me the game, if it is bad, I'll knock at your door in a dark and rainy winter night... :-)

[Glenn Saunders]

Well then I do hope you enjoy it!

Glenn