WF scenarios

[Abatis]

Hey guys

Does anybody know if very many of the West Front vs computer scenarios have been re tooled by anybody for play vs a human?
I've been thinking of taking that on as a project- there aren't nearly enough WF HTH scenarios IMO, and I'm not trying to steal any of the old designer's thunder- but so many of those games could be good for HTH play via pbem or live with probably just a little tweaking/editing. If this has already been done and the re tooled scenarios are already available, not much point in me editing them again. Obviously its only for fun and I'd post them for free download for the interested community. Anybody know if I'm opening any kind of legal can of worms here? I don't want that either.

Once I've got it rolling, I was also wondering if a couple of you would mind maybe playtesting the re tooled scenarios.

[John Given]

Hey Abatis! I'm a modding fool, myself. I love the idea of tweaking scenarios - but I only tweaked a few - and those were the ones wherte you were meant to fight the computer, not a human opponent. This is because if I changed a human v. human scenario, the first time I tried to play a real person, the battle file would not open. (conflicting data)

Lately, I'm beginning to notice some players are playing each other on scenarios not meant for pbem - so I stopped doing it. If you wish to continue, I suggest you rename the scenario so that you are alerted it's a "unique" scenario that only you have - you would, or couse, have to mail any changed files to your opponent before starting the game.

Don't worry about copywright stuff; as long as you aren't making a profit off of your new scenario and/or slandering Talonsoft's good name, then I see no reason to worry.

Happy gaming! :p

[Abatis]

Hey John,

Thanks for the in-put!

So people are daring to play pbem games in computer AI suggested scenarios? Hmmm...how are the results? Maybe I don't need to fret over the lack of WF pbem scenarios after all.

If I did do this however, I'd definitely change the name of the file..probably add pbem to it or something in the file name to tip you off.

I was thinking that the only thing a lot of those scenarios would need is to un fix some of units, and maybe or maybe not tone down fortifications designed to give the AI an edge..the OOB's are probably just what they should be if I were to guess.

Hey thanks again let me know anything you can about results in those pbem's in AI scenarios!

Let me know if you ever feel like a game too. I'm a slut. Can't get enough. I might not be un employed after today- but I still want more pbem!! :nuts:

[John Given]

Hey Abatis!

I know of two good examples of scenarios that are meant to be vs. the computer.

One, a West Front scenario called "a new threat" has a modded version found over at theblitz.org. This seems like a particuarly good scenario to convert to pbem, as both sides have large numbers of tanks, but the complexity is only 5. The original "a new threat" is recommended "play as allies" as many german units are fixed. OOB seems pretty balanced. I'm seriously considering downloading the new version. (this is the scenario where the americans get some M-26 pershing heavy tanks!) :love:

The other scenario is for East Front II, and is called "25 miles to budapest" (or is it kilometers?) I chose this scenario to play cs veteran Robert Cousin (scorched earth) with, and the result was a disastrous german defeat - BUT - I was too aggressive and reckless early on, Robert played very skillfully and conservatively - AND - he had terrific luck on the attack, while my op-fire was dismally ineffective and/or absent. A rematch could very well produce a completely different outcome. Isn't that right, Robert? :D Heh.

Anyway, When I looked up our game on the ladder, I noticed that *many* folks had played this scenario before - such as it is for many "play vs. computer" scenarios. Abatis, read my description of that game on the ladder - click "W.A.R.S. (ladder)" at the top-right of the page, then click "Latest game reports." You may have to flip back a page or two, but it will be there. My reports are easy to find: I leave loooooong AAR's in the description.

Toodles!

Oh, and you got game - soon as I make up my mind about what to play! :devil:

[Abatis]

Thanks for the feed back John- and good deal on the game too! I've got all the gold discs- anything from there- and I've got nearly all of the HTH approved scenarios downloaded from the Blitz- any side, any scenario...Or I could download whatever scenario you like. I'm easy. "New Threat" doesn't sound bad. I'll look for it to check it out anyway, and compare to the original. I figured a lot of those AI scenarios could be fixed for pbem just by doing away with the "fixed" status. That's not even hardly modding- which is why I would dare to attempt it- I'm a computer moron. :(


I just re-read your AAR-I had read it earlier in the week- that's a good one IMO- a very good read, and informational.

Talk with you later

[Jason Petho]

For a few converted scenarios, click here:

http://home.planet.nl/~versloot/homeframeset.htm

Then select the "Conversions" drop down menu on the left.

You'll find a list of 12 Converted WF scenarios to H2H play.

Hope that helps
Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[Abatis]

Thanks Jason- that's excactly what I was looking for- that site is a little treasure chest. Glad to know about it!

[Jason Petho]

Thanks Jason- that's excactly what I was looking for- that site is a little treasure chest. Glad to know about it!

No problem at all! Glad I could help!

Take care and good luck
Jason Petho

[John Given]

Hey Abatis - I just tried to send you the e-mail of the first turn. My comp is saying your e-mail address is messed up. If you could post your (correct) e-mail address I could get that first turn to you.

Should it just be stone@hotmail.com? I included the first part. before that in the address as well.

[Abatis]

Hi John

send the turn to 4spencers@twcny.rr.com- although thats going to change in a couple weeks when I move out of town. I'll also *possibly* be off line for a week or so..I'll let you know details when I know dates and such(same for all of my opponents)I won't have access to cable modem out in the hills, so I'll need a whole new internet provider..hope I can get DSL!! Please Lord no- don't make me hook up the 56k again!

The other address is sisiphusandstone@hotmail.com

That hotmail email addy will remain in service- but I might not have access to it during the move- For some reason, our Eudora mail program handles attachments better than hotmail, so I try to use that one for gaming.

[Abatis]

Nothing... :)

[John Given]

Ok, I originally sent the email to that siphus address. I will send it to the new one you just gave.

The germans just drew their pistols...will the allies endeavor to perservere?

[Abatis]

The germans just drew their pistols...will the allies endeavor to perservere?


Hey John

That scenario looks like a real slugfest! Just sent the turn back to you. Looking forward to defending that terrain!

And we will CERTAINLY...endeavor to persevere :cheeky:

[Scorched Earth]

Hi John, (and Abatis), just read your AAR on the Buda game, good stuff. You raise an interesting point about H v AI games. When i first started i raised the same issue. I have found two ways of working around this. One is too move all your units from where your opponent expects them (i know it sounds obvious). The second is to play the game blind. I have just done this (and lost), it was a very interesting experience. It answered a few questions, but raised more!

So, as you two seem to asking lots of questions, perhaps you can help me with the following:

1. Do disrupted units recover quicker out of sight of enemy units? Is this recovery assisted by placing them in fortified hexes? Does placing a leader with them help in anyway?

2. Now an old favourite. Op fire!,, i have experimented with this (and ranges), Does placing a leader with a unit have any effect? Does setting the option of saving fire for op fire increase the chances of it occuring. What is the best way to get your units to op fire? I can relate to John's frustration in the Buda game about his op fire as i felt the same in our Tiger game. Watching units trundle past you and your unit fails to open fire is somewhat annoying. :laugh:

3. Either of you want to play a game, i'm down to one opponent at present.

cheers
Robert

[Abatis]

Hi Robert-

I'm pretty sure that recovery of disruption and morale is aided by the presence of a leader- as it gives a morale bonus, and you need full morale to recover from disruption. So, it could very well undisrupt your troops more quickly...covered terrain also gives a bonus, if I remember correctly, and the better the cover, the better the bonus- with fortifications helping out too. It's been awhile since I read all of that though- and sometimes I get rules in this game confused with Squad Leader Rules- the games are alot alike IMHO(which is why I love the Campaign Series- I can't find too many board game opponents these days, and these games give me the same feeling of excitement that SL does!)

I'm definitely up for a game, any side any scenario EF WF or RS.

One thing- I can usually turn around 1 turn or 2 every day- sometimes more- and I don't mind if you can't game as much- it's all good, BUT, excpect an interruption on my part probably next week, but possibly as early as this weekend in our gaming 'cos we're moving out of town. Trying to get internet dealt with before the move so its all ready to go, but waiting to hear back from a couple of providers. Anyhoo, I'd love another game. Can't get enough. :laugh: Direct correspondence to 4spencers@twcny.rr.com

On op fire, I think that the program auto calculates, taking any settings that you have made into consideration and if it has a decent chance to hit(whatever that may be- better than 50-50?)it will fire. I don't much care for the AI habits of op fire..you get left hanging too often. But, such is virtual war I don't think a leader present will help- other than to modify the firing units attack- which is definitely a good thing! But I don't think he effects wether or not the unit will or will not fire.





All the best,

B

[Scorched Earth]

Hi Brian, good answers that will modify my game. Expect a turn of something in the next day or two. I can usually manage a turn a day. Play you soon, and good luck with the move. Cheers. Robert. :)

[John Given]

Hey Robert, thanks for positive aar I made about our game.

I can answer a few of your questions;

1) op-firing units with an officer do no good (the officer will not expend his ap's with op-firing units, proving he is not adding his command attack bonus to the fire)

2) Stacking officers with units WILL help them to recover morale, as he effectively raises the morale of that unit, making any morale checks easier (check your manual for more info)

3) Micro-managing your op-fire (target and range select) will help provide more opportunites for op-firing, but only in the sense that they will "hold fire" on targets you don't want them to fire at, saving that fire for the targets you do want.

For example, I want to shoot up someone's tanks, but the enemy moves his infantry next to my panthers and fires. My panthers just sit there. My opponent may assume my panthers have no ap's left to fire, so now my opponent moves his valuable tanks up - pow! - no more shermans. A much more effective result for the german.

Of course, none of this makes it MORE likely op-fire will happen when the appropriate target does present itself. In other words, as far as I know, the chances for op-firing certain targets is something pre-programmed into the game. I read this about the CS a few years ago on talonsoft's web site, and someone with the company wrote an article about how they were "tinkering with the chances certain units are likely to fire on a given target" which to me, proves why op-fire can be so spotty - the %'s for it are hard-coded into the game.

As far as the other factors mentioned (recovering morale out of sight of enemies, or whilst in positional defenses, etc), I've never read about that online or in the manual, so I'm betting those things don't apply to the CS.

That's all for now! :salute:

[Abatis]

Hey- Ok, I was wrong about leaders- DOH! :cheeky: but all terrain, I just found,definitely effects morale. Suburbs for instance give +2 to morale, Clear terrain a -1, Bunkers and Pillboxes +4, trenches +2...there are others too of course. Its all cumulative to a max of +5. The Parameter Data gives a whole list. I didn't realize that leaders wouldn't spend AP's in OP fire...lazy SOB's!! :mad: :cheeky:

[John Given]

Half the time, the only real functions of officers seem to be - feed the enemy lots of victory points! :mad:

In a recent game with soccer DJ, he got a total SIX of my officers with his artillery. GRRR! :argh:

And in my recent game with Abatis, he took an officer worth THIRTY victory points - that must have been one hell of a nice kubelwagon! :PIMP:


I honestly am beginning to wonder if it would make more sense to hold officers back from the front lines, as the small amount of contribution they make to the battle does not seem to be worth the HUGE vp loss to me. "Sorry general, you're going to have to wait back here - you're just to valuable to lose. Don't worry about your panthers - they'll be ok." :nuts:

[Abatis]

I usually favor keeping them with the HQ's, or a little behind the line to help with undisruptions...sometimes though, if I really need a positive fire result, I bring a leader out...then he sticks around for awhile and gets killed. :laugh:

All in all, I'd rather have the better HQ range, and the quicker disruption recovery. It's not a hard and fast rule for me though. Too often- I just wing it! ;) Damn impulsive nature! :laugh:

[SoccerDJ]

Half the time, the only real functions of officers seem to be - feed the enemy lots of victory points! :mad:

In a recent game with soccer DJ, he got a total SIX of my officers with his artillery. GRRR! :argh:

And in my recent game with Abatis, he took an officer worth THIRTY victory points - that must have been one hell of a nice kubelwagon! :PIMP:


I honestly am beginning to wonder if it would make more sense to hold officers back from the front lines, as the small amount of contribution they make to the battle does not seem to be worth the HUGE vp loss to me. "Sorry general, you're going to have to wait back here - you're just to valuable to lose. Don't worry about your panthers - they'll be ok." :nuts:

I was very amazed how lucky I got killing those officers but that just made your Panther paltoons even more mad and they vent that anger on my front line troops. I usually put my leaders up in the middle of action as to get a little edge on my attack but once some of my units are disrupted I pull the officers back so that can pull my units off the front line so they can recover.
John in the game we are playing now I dont have any officers and not much benifical terrain unless I reteart all the way back so my units are having a hard time getting undisrupted. And I have yet to see many of your officers for me to attack with my artillery :devil:

[John Given]

What was that about stacking officers with HQ's to increase supply range? I haven't read that one before; I'm going to have to try that sometime.

Later all. :nofear:

[Abatis]

The Officer's command rating will give you the equivalant number of extra hexes of command radius if he's at his HQ.